[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
-
- Tags
- exalted (white wolf)
[X] "I meant to do that"
[X] Forbearance
[X] Forbearance
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
inawarminister
I ♥ anime
We broke his spear, why would he be okay with us praying to him?
Don't do something foolish and get smited this early in the game!!
(I guess that's the reason why we didn't get the Sun interacting with Uly when he was, uhm Exalted by him-past-self.)
HAHAHAHA oh wow, Sesus Ulyssian, Autoexalted, of the Ten Thousand Dragons and certainly-not-the-Solars
Now I guess we really CAN'T go to heaven.
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- Location
- Southern Virginia
The write-in frankly annoys me as it is everything wrong with write-ins. It's trying to have a cake and eat it too, except it involves jumping up and down on the cake first. It comes across as really insecure and arrogant at the same time. It'll certainly undermine any advantage that came from killing Polemgaos while not doing enough to dodge the consequences from the same. And yes, as Rihaku has repeatedly pointed out, remorse is a perfectly appropriate reaction. The argument that it is "whining and begging forgiveness" from the Houses is especially irritating as it has been clarified to be nothing of the sort; it is a matter of Ulyssian's internal feelings on the matter. And the argument that showing remorse will lead to weakness is just mind-boggling in so many ways I can't even take it seriously.
Either embrace the act or don't. I find trying to weasel out of the situation with "well I didn't mean to kill him, but he brought it on himself" or making a flippant "oops, I didn't mean to do that but I totally don't care" to be far more out of character for Ulyssian and Odyssial than either main choice. I'll try a write-in for the War when I have the chance, but if the votes are being counted now, well...
[X] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.
Either embrace the act or don't. I find trying to weasel out of the situation with "well I didn't mean to kill him, but he brought it on himself" or making a flippant "oops, I didn't mean to do that but I totally don't care" to be far more out of character for Ulyssian and Odyssial than either main choice. I'll try a write-in for the War when I have the chance, but if the votes are being counted now, well...
[X] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.
Yeah, in hindsight that wasn't the best way for him to act. I've made an altered version which is hopefully better. After killing Polemgaos he observes the body in hopes that he has another trick up his sleeve to revive himself. When it's apparent that he won't be coming back from dead, Ulysses calmly leaves the arena to meet up with Nilul and let's the crowds draw their own conclusions for now.
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Right, on another note, if we do end up showing remorse, which very much looks like what we're going to do, I wouldn't underestimate the advantages of sticking around.
Fundamentally, the argument for remorse is to give us more time to acrue advantages while insulating us as much as possible from the backlash over this.
While showing how regretful we are by dropping out of the Tournament is a powerful gesture to all those affronted by our behaviour but not invested enough in Polemgaos death to remain full of rage regardless of what we do, there is to consider that sticking around and performing less ridiculously well for the rest of the Tournament isn't a pure disadvantage.
Admitting this was an accident already reduces the amount of prestige to be gained by crushing Polemgaos so utterly significantly, so sticking around and actually proving that it was kind of a fluke is not as much of a loss as it'd be if we claimed to have acted with the intention to kill, while it supports our alibi.
Otherwise the next time people will see us fight we'll likely be strong enough that there's no way too confirm we weren't good enough to have planned Polemgaos' death back then.
Outside of that, while the Infernal part of Counter-Intelligence still remains risky, the initial confrontation would ideally be before they had the chance to gauge our true skill level, so the intimadtion factor will still be raised and, if we do intend to delay the Civil War until we're better prepared for it, well, figuring out what the hell the Infernals are up to and the admittedly small chance of gaining Solaroid allies are pretty decent ways to go about preparing ourselves better for the inevitable Civil War and for the extra prep-time to be worth it we do kind of need to take risks anyways.
Fundamentally, the argument for remorse is to give us more time to acrue advantages while insulating us as much as possible from the backlash over this.
While showing how regretful we are by dropping out of the Tournament is a powerful gesture to all those affronted by our behaviour but not invested enough in Polemgaos death to remain full of rage regardless of what we do, there is to consider that sticking around and performing less ridiculously well for the rest of the Tournament isn't a pure disadvantage.
Admitting this was an accident already reduces the amount of prestige to be gained by crushing Polemgaos so utterly significantly, so sticking around and actually proving that it was kind of a fluke is not as much of a loss as it'd be if we claimed to have acted with the intention to kill, while it supports our alibi.
Otherwise the next time people will see us fight we'll likely be strong enough that there's no way too confirm we weren't good enough to have planned Polemgaos' death back then.
Outside of that, while the Infernal part of Counter-Intelligence still remains risky, the initial confrontation would ideally be before they had the chance to gauge our true skill level, so the intimadtion factor will still be raised and, if we do intend to delay the Civil War until we're better prepared for it, well, figuring out what the hell the Infernals are up to and the admittedly small chance of gaining Solaroid allies are pretty decent ways to go about preparing ourselves better for the inevitable Civil War and for the extra prep-time to be worth it we do kind of need to take risks anyways.
[x] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse
[x] Counter-Infiltration
[x] Counter-Infiltration
Damn. I am massively and totally remorseful.
Polemgaos, for the little time we had with him appeared an amazing guy, and while we know little of his niece...killing him right before her ?! And he was the lover of the mother of Poet/warrior girl ?! We've just killed the possible father of the person I most wanted to chat with at this Tournament ?! the fuck !
Man that's some goddamned tragedy right there, we keep decimating the Realm best forces....we've yet to strike any kind of blows against the actual threats against Creation...ugh even me, who think that Creation could use some "hard reforming" can only despair at this state of affairs.
I don't know what to vote for, but I do know that taking the middle road here isn't actually the way to go, either we've remorseful and we go all out to moderate the damages, or we ruthlessly exploit the situation in all ways possibles.
Polemgaos, for the little time we had with him appeared an amazing guy, and while we know little of his niece...killing him right before her ?! And he was the lover of the mother of Poet/warrior girl ?! We've just killed the possible father of the person I most wanted to chat with at this Tournament ?! the fuck !
Man that's some goddamned tragedy right there, we keep decimating the Realm best forces....we've yet to strike any kind of blows against the actual threats against Creation...ugh even me, who think that Creation could use some "hard reforming" can only despair at this state of affairs.
I don't know what to vote for, but I do know that taking the middle road here isn't actually the way to go, either we've remorseful and we go all out to moderate the damages, or we ruthlessly exploit the situation in all ways possibles.
On the bright side, it can't be far off.
Because at this rate, we'll run out of potential allies, and only be left with threats to Creation.
Do note that if anyone in the area had found out we were a Solar they wouldn't have hesitated to kill us. And Polemgaos was planning on either crushing us or exploding us with lava, regardless of our status as Anathema. So, you know, black and grey.
I keep on voting to go fight the enemies of Creation, and the "stay in the warrior empire that wants to kill us while masquerading as a gifted warrior" vote keeps winning.
Though I'm not too cut. Firstly, because this is a quest and I don't get people who care about the morality of actions in fiction, and secondly because my end goal is to complete the Singularity Husk, which will involve killing everyone anyway.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Because he thought we could take it just like WE thought HE could take our attack. He was simply acting like a proper warrior and going all out against an opponent he respected (I think that was it?)
Because good stories/quests draw you in and make you care about the characters?
Well, for me, caring about fiction in general, is caring about what the fictional characters I'm concerned with do. Not to say they need to have a solid moral compass, ruthlessness for the sake of some overachieving goal like the Singularity has some appeal, but I must admit to care about some level of decency, no matter how wrapped. It just seem totally unbecoming to not take stock of one's mistake or to be indifferent to the loss of someone valuable and with who we had no present quarrels.
Also on the matter of our Anathema status. I would hardly blame people raised on the Immaculate Faith dire warnings against us for their desires to take us out. I have no problems with killing them if they pose a immediate threat but doing so while we have some other option is just plain unnecessary.
I know. That basically encompasses the "black and grey": he was willing to pump us full of lava because it's the done thing, yanow? And we weren't doing anything wrong, so feeling bad is annoying. I get to the end of the peak of the quest so far, Ulyssian's greatest accomplishment, and find out that apparently it wasn't desirable.
What does that have to do with caring about how moral characters are? Like I understand liking a character and wanting to see more of them, but now that that ship's sailed people want Ulyssian (who they nominally like?) to feel bad? And I'm especially confused when people are upset by the deaths of thousands of nameless extras, because it's like, why do they matter?
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Uh "Black and Grey" is basically on the order of "The IOM vs Chaos", that is in NO WAY similar to what our fight was like since neither of us expected our attacks to actually kill each other hell this is more white and grey (or grey and grey) since we were just fighting and testing ourselves with no malice to the other. So we DID do something wrong since we wound up killing a real hero who saved countless people from the enemies of the realm in front of his own beloved niece (which was apparently for her the equivalent to Moon's mother dying) when we misjudged our strength for a freaking TOURNAMENT.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
[X] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse
[X] Counter-Infiltration
The man who manages to accidentally kill you strongest (solely through misjudging his strength) is much more threatening than one who did it on purpose. The second can be attributed to tons of planning and preparation, a careful finding of weak-points and practice. The first means he's just that strong. It means that if you fight him, you only live due to his carefulness and mercy.
Having a rep as a super-warrior is much better than the second. One, because it plays to the stereotype, and, two, because it means nobody expects it when Ody does do tons of planning and prep.
[X] Counter-Infiltration
You do realize half the point of the remorse vote is to avoid making even more enemies, right? It's also a threat.
The man who manages to accidentally kill you strongest (solely through misjudging his strength) is much more threatening than one who did it on purpose. The second can be attributed to tons of planning and preparation, a careful finding of weak-points and practice. The first means he's just that strong. It means that if you fight him, you only live due to his carefulness and mercy.
Having a rep as a super-warrior is much better than the second. One, because it plays to the stereotype, and, two, because it means nobody expects it when Ody does do tons of planning and prep.
[X] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse
[X] Counter-Infiltration
[X] Counter-Infiltration
Vote tally:
##### 3.18
[X] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse.
No. of votes: 30
Alectai, Deadly Snark, vali, Brekouh, SirLagginton, Mannan, CharlBaal, Candesce, LastChronicler, Gaudy Guise, Diller, LordOfMurder, TMIoverload, Reckless_Sun, a11behringer, kinglugia, meianmaru, dragon, Yzarc, Grimmair, aja318, Daniel14541, veekie, Serous, Panther, 1986ctcel, Cavalier, BSRK Aditya, Ridiculously Average Guy, afterthought53
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.
No. of votes: 10
Alectai, Brekouh, Mannan, a11behringer, Yzarc, aja318, veekie, Serous, Panther, Cavalier
[X] I meant to do that
No. of votes: 7
Usernames, CrawlingChaos74, Robotninja, Thomasfoolery, Anasurimbor, Pipeman, Dark Lord Bob
[X] Counter-intelligence
No. of votes: 1
Usernames
[X] Forbearance
No. of votes: 13
CrawlingChaos74, SirLagginton, Van Ropen, Candesce, Gaudy Guise, Diller, Robotninja, sithmor, Emerald Oracle, meianmaru, dragon, Pipeman, Dark Lord Bob
[x] counter infiltration
No. of votes: 11
CharlBaal, LordOfMurder, Reckless_Sun, Guile, me.me.here, Algalon, CrossyCross, 1986ctcel, BSRK Aditya, Ridiculously Average Guy, afterthought53
[x] don't withdraw without massive demand.
No. of votes: 1
CharlBaal
[X] I meant to do that - Of course. Perhaps this was why Zao sent you in the first place; he is making his play, and the opening hand is all aces. What faction would dare defy Lung Feng Zao, who wields not only his formidable self, and the Admiralty, but a prodigy of such incalculable power as this!? May spark the Realm Civil War, but that was probably going to happen anyway, and at least this way it is from a position of strength, and on your own terms - sort of?
No. of votes: 2
Da Boyz, longmasher
[X] Don't worry, I struck you with the flat side of the- hm. Hmm.
No. of votes: 11
Van Ropen, Guile, sithmor, Kurowari, Orm Embar, inawarminister, me.me.here, Savonarola, Algalon, CrossyCross, useofstrike32
[x] Ulyssian is Zao's long lost son.
No. of votes: 1
Reckless_Sun
[x] Guile's Write-in
No. of votes: 1
Emerald Oracle
[X] Continue the plan
No. of votes: 1
Thomasfoolery
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.​
No. of votes: 1
Daniel14541
##### 3.18
[X] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse.
No. of votes: 30
Alectai, Deadly Snark, vali, Brekouh, SirLagginton, Mannan, CharlBaal, Candesce, LastChronicler, Gaudy Guise, Diller, LordOfMurder, TMIoverload, Reckless_Sun, a11behringer, kinglugia, meianmaru, dragon, Yzarc, Grimmair, aja318, Daniel14541, veekie, Serous, Panther, 1986ctcel, Cavalier, BSRK Aditya, Ridiculously Average Guy, afterthought53
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.
No. of votes: 10
Alectai, Brekouh, Mannan, a11behringer, Yzarc, aja318, veekie, Serous, Panther, Cavalier
[X] I meant to do that
No. of votes: 7
Usernames, CrawlingChaos74, Robotninja, Thomasfoolery, Anasurimbor, Pipeman, Dark Lord Bob
[X] Counter-intelligence
No. of votes: 1
Usernames
[X] Forbearance
No. of votes: 13
CrawlingChaos74, SirLagginton, Van Ropen, Candesce, Gaudy Guise, Diller, Robotninja, sithmor, Emerald Oracle, meianmaru, dragon, Pipeman, Dark Lord Bob
[x] counter infiltration
No. of votes: 11
CharlBaal, LordOfMurder, Reckless_Sun, Guile, me.me.here, Algalon, CrossyCross, 1986ctcel, BSRK Aditya, Ridiculously Average Guy, afterthought53
[x] don't withdraw without massive demand.
No. of votes: 1
CharlBaal
[X] I meant to do that - Of course. Perhaps this was why Zao sent you in the first place; he is making his play, and the opening hand is all aces. What faction would dare defy Lung Feng Zao, who wields not only his formidable self, and the Admiralty, but a prodigy of such incalculable power as this!? May spark the Realm Civil War, but that was probably going to happen anyway, and at least this way it is from a position of strength, and on your own terms - sort of?
No. of votes: 2
Da Boyz, longmasher
[X] Don't worry, I struck you with the flat side of the- hm. Hmm.
No. of votes: 11
Van Ropen, Guile, sithmor, Kurowari, Orm Embar, inawarminister, me.me.here, Savonarola, Algalon, CrossyCross, useofstrike32
[x] Ulyssian is Zao's long lost son.
No. of votes: 1
Reckless_Sun
[x] Guile's Write-in
No. of votes: 1
Emerald Oracle
[X] Continue the plan
No. of votes: 1
Thomasfoolery
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.​
No. of votes: 1
Daniel14541
I was using Black and Grey as a reference to the fact that nearly everyone in the entire Realm is fine with killing people, and Polemgaos would be fine with killing us, but since he doesn't have specific malice against us he would only permanently cripple us.
More to the point, how will feeling remorse prevent this situation in the future? I've got a list of Uly's pre-fight assumptions; can you tell me why he should have known they were wrong? Because you admit that this was a mistake of luck, rather than intention.
He should go all-out against Polemgaos if he attempts to win: Polemgaos is an E7 Dragonblood hero who would cripple Uly if a single hit landed, and who is immortal. Seems pretty reasonable, especially since Uly knows if he doesn't go all out he could be killed. It's a thing known to happen.
His information about Polemgaos was accurate: All of Polemgaos legends were widely publicised, and as far as Uly's ludicrous senses could determine, all the evidence correlated them. Do you want Uly to disbelieve all evidence because it could be wrong, or not act until he has personally verified everything?
He wasn't overestimating Polemgaos: Again, Polegaos' deeds are public record. Uly thought a guy who had faced down First Age Elders would be stronger.
Why are those assumptions wrong (using only evidence Uly knew before the fight) and if they aren't wrong how would feeling remorse make Uly not make them? Are you intending for Uly to be intentionally sub-optimal in his guilt?
Edit:
What I'm saying is that if me posting this inadvertently blew up Italy, I wouldn't feel guilt, because based on all reasonable evidence and assumptions that wasn't a consequence I should have predicted. As such, I wouldn't stop posting.
Uly was fighting someone who's immunity to death had stood up to Elders; should Uly have predicted that he was better at killing things when not trying than fanatical E8 Celestials? If he couldn't have done anything to prevent the tragedy, why should he feel bad about it (other than it being unintentional, which is Guile's write-in)?
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- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
WHY THE HELL WOULD WE EVER BE SUICIDAL ENOUGH TO DO THAT? Seriously he'd probably KILL US.
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Vote tally:
##### 3.18
Current leads are Forebearance/Withdraw, with 32 votes, and Demonstrate Remorse with 30.
##### 3.18
[X] Forbearance
No. of votes: 21
TheOtherSandman, Darklord., Random Asian Person, Khaos, Jouaint, inventive alias, Nezi karaketas, Vitaris, CrawlingChaos74, SirLagginton, Van Ropen, Candesce, Gaudy Guise, Diller, Robotninja, sithmor, Emerald Oracle, meianmaru, dragon, Pipeman, Dark Lord Bob
[X] Counter-Infiltration
No. of votes: 16
cyberswordsmen, DarkLight140, Coaxmetal, Gerrou, vel10, CharlBaal, LordOfMurder, Reckless_Sun, Guile, me.me.here, Algalon, CrossyCross, 1986ctcel, BSRK Aditya, Ridiculously Average Guy, afterthought53
[X] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse.
No. of votes: 30
Alectai, Deadly Snark, vali, Brekouh, SirLagginton, Mannan, CharlBaal, Candesce, LastChronicler, Gaudy Guise, Diller, LordOfMurder, TMIoverload, Reckless_Sun, a11behringer, kinglugia, meianmaru, dragon, Yzarc, Grimmair, aja318, Daniel14541, veekie, Serous, Panther, 1986ctcel, Cavalier, BSRK Aditya, Ridiculously Average Guy, afterthought53
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.
No. of votes: 10
Alectai, Brekouh, Mannan, a11behringer, Yzarc, aja318, veekie, Serous, Panther, Cavalier
[X] I meant to do that
No. of votes: 7
Usernames, CrawlingChaos74, Robotninja, Thomasfoolery, Anasurimbor, Pipeman, Dark Lord Bob
[X] Counter-intelligence
No. of votes: 1
Usernames
[x] don't withdraw without massive demand.
No. of votes: 1
CharlBaal
[X] I meant to do that - Of course. Perhaps this was why Zao sent you in the first place; he is making his play, and the opening hand is all aces. What faction would dare defy Lung Feng Zao, who wields not only his formidable self, and the Admiralty, but a prodigy of such incalculable power as this!? May spark the Realm Civil War, but that was probably going to happen anyway, and at least this way it is from a position of strength, and on your own terms - sort of?
No. of votes: 2
Da Boyz, longmasher
[X] Don't worry, I struck you with the flat side of the- hm. Hmm.
No. of votes: 11
Van Ropen, Guile, sithmor, Kurowari, Orm Embar, inawarminister, me.me.here, Savonarola, Algalon, CrossyCross, useofstrike32
[x] Ulyssian is Zao's long lost son.
No. of votes: 1
Reckless_Sun
[x] Guile's Write-in
No. of votes: 1
Emerald Oracle
[X] Continue the plan
No. of votes: 1
Thomasfoolery
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.
No. of votes: 1
Daniel14541
No. of votes: 21
TheOtherSandman, Darklord., Random Asian Person, Khaos, Jouaint, inventive alias, Nezi karaketas, Vitaris, CrawlingChaos74, SirLagginton, Van Ropen, Candesce, Gaudy Guise, Diller, Robotninja, sithmor, Emerald Oracle, meianmaru, dragon, Pipeman, Dark Lord Bob
[X] Counter-Infiltration
No. of votes: 16
cyberswordsmen, DarkLight140, Coaxmetal, Gerrou, vel10, CharlBaal, LordOfMurder, Reckless_Sun, Guile, me.me.here, Algalon, CrossyCross, 1986ctcel, BSRK Aditya, Ridiculously Average Guy, afterthought53
[X] Demonstrate Massive and Total Remorse.
No. of votes: 30
Alectai, Deadly Snark, vali, Brekouh, SirLagginton, Mannan, CharlBaal, Candesce, LastChronicler, Gaudy Guise, Diller, LordOfMurder, TMIoverload, Reckless_Sun, a11behringer, kinglugia, meianmaru, dragon, Yzarc, Grimmair, aja318, Daniel14541, veekie, Serous, Panther, 1986ctcel, Cavalier, BSRK Aditya, Ridiculously Average Guy, afterthought53
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.
No. of votes: 10
Alectai, Brekouh, Mannan, a11behringer, Yzarc, aja318, veekie, Serous, Panther, Cavalier
[X] I meant to do that
No. of votes: 7
Usernames, CrawlingChaos74, Robotninja, Thomasfoolery, Anasurimbor, Pipeman, Dark Lord Bob
[X] Counter-intelligence
No. of votes: 1
Usernames
[x] don't withdraw without massive demand.
No. of votes: 1
CharlBaal
[X] I meant to do that - Of course. Perhaps this was why Zao sent you in the first place; he is making his play, and the opening hand is all aces. What faction would dare defy Lung Feng Zao, who wields not only his formidable self, and the Admiralty, but a prodigy of such incalculable power as this!? May spark the Realm Civil War, but that was probably going to happen anyway, and at least this way it is from a position of strength, and on your own terms - sort of?
No. of votes: 2
Da Boyz, longmasher
[X] Don't worry, I struck you with the flat side of the- hm. Hmm.
No. of votes: 11
Van Ropen, Guile, sithmor, Kurowari, Orm Embar, inawarminister, me.me.here, Savonarola, Algalon, CrossyCross, useofstrike32
[x] Ulyssian is Zao's long lost son.
No. of votes: 1
Reckless_Sun
[x] Guile's Write-in
No. of votes: 1
Emerald Oracle
[X] Continue the plan
No. of votes: 1
Thomasfoolery
[X] Withdraw from the Tournament.
No. of votes: 1
Daniel14541
Current leads are Forebearance/Withdraw, with 32 votes, and Demonstrate Remorse with 30.
You could try and make a short one which should help a lot. We really do need more stunts to give us an advantage as mine really isn't the best.edit: sorry for that, I posted the beginning of a stunt by mistake. I'm not even sure I will be able to write it all.
Edit: I shouldn't even try man, I have a test tomorrow, I need to work