[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- exalted (white wolf)
Hmm... I think I'll change my vote from "Coldness/Skirmishing" to...
[X] Guilt
[X] Melee
Skirmishing works best "when stealth is permitted". And... we don't really have stealth against this guy. We only have as much stealth as this asshole allows us to have, which... okay, it relies on a Daeva's arrogance and their whimsy.
Melee on the other hand, allows for high damage against Larsyifex.
And as for why guilt... Well, I just felt like it clicked with the combo; either Fury+Melee, or Guilt+Melee. Berserker, or Death-defying death-seeker... Eh, I'm not really managing to express what combo I'm seeing too well...
Basically, the idea of "a grief-driven all-out assault." Strikes given power by guilt and regret.
And I guess later -- if he survives this -- he will probably try to act with some more caution, having learned after dealing with Daevas.
I wonder how that caution would change the world?
What would a post-First Age world look like, with that sort of Odyssial...
I want to see what that world might look like.
[X] Guilt
[X] Melee
Skirmishing works best "when stealth is permitted". And... we don't really have stealth against this guy. We only have as much stealth as this asshole allows us to have, which... okay, it relies on a Daeva's arrogance and their whimsy.
Melee on the other hand, allows for high damage against Larsyifex.
And as for why guilt... Well, I just felt like it clicked with the combo; either Fury+Melee, or Guilt+Melee. Berserker, or Death-defying death-seeker... Eh, I'm not really managing to express what combo I'm seeing too well...
Basically, the idea of "a grief-driven all-out assault." Strikes given power by guilt and regret.
And I guess later -- if he survives this -- he will probably try to act with some more caution, having learned after dealing with Daevas.
I wonder how that caution would change the world?
What would a post-First Age world look like, with that sort of Odyssial...
I want to see what that world might look like.
Wish I'd had a little more time to flesh this out further (particularly at the end), but I'll post what I have before it becomes meaningless.
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Creation is not kind to humanity. This fact underlies all possible rationale for this decision, but thus far has lain fallow, an unspoken truism. But the fact of the matter is that it is only unkind because human survival on anything beyond the broadest populations levels is an afterthought. Humanity were conceived and forged as tools, engines of worship to fuel the power of gods and daeva alike. Their sapience, their emotions, their will exists only so that they are more efficient at this task in service of their betters, and they are purposefully designed without the ability to rise above this position. It is of no concern to the alien minds that held and still hold the tools of Creation whether the beauty of acid streams and flensing winds are apparent to human conciousness as their flesh melts and their skin is flayed. They are in fact designed for the contrary, to fear the myriad features of this greater world so that they turn to the superstitions that feed their function as one feeds a fire. So long as this quota is met, the tools function well and one cares for the well-being of a tool only insofar that it adequately serves its purpose. An individual human is less than chaff, less than a thought.
Odyssial has understood the position of his race, on at least the most gross terms if not all the esoteric details (though the introductory piece indicates he knows the majority of these as well), for the entirety of his life. He will have grown while hearing of the fall of tribe after city after civilization, in some cases due to malice but more generally just as a fact of life, no more predictable than the weather and with as little explanation. He would not possibly be a stranger to the loss of kin and friends or even just the familiar stranger that frequents a certain park until he one day disappears. It is simply the way of the world, as unchanging as the Sun. The pain and struggle of life in Creation is familiar to this man and he, his culture, has internalized it so that they might best game the system as it were.
He has worked the majority of his life to meet this goal, to become all that is humanly possible, in search of security for those he holds dear and to create a foundation for more, for a rise beyond the means and the unconscious prospects imposed by their creators. He has met with the Daeva, learned what small portion he can comprehend of their ways, walked among them as more than an insect to be unknowingly crushed, even if only rising to the position of a minor animal that crosses the path of those so much greater. But it has never been enough. And in a single year, all he has known is gone. His home is crushed, his people torn from him one by one.
Assuredly, Odyssial feels fury. How can he not. The corpse of his last family lies before him and the murderer speaks of winning a gamble. This monstrosity seeks to manipulate him, to impose the most extreme guilt, merely for its own amusement, to beat the odds and accrue greater reward. He is a game, his sister was a game, his family was a game, his entire race are a game. The hate he must feel, to be the lifelong toys of uncaring masters who barely deem to acknowledge that humans exist beyond the needs of god and daeva. Antipathy will drive his blade harder, push him to end all those responsible. Yes, anger will form a great and most terrible resolve to end those Odyssial perceives his enemy. "Let them suffer the fury of his thousandfold vengeance, and pray he does not ask more." Yet what is this more? What could unceasing anger drive a man of Odyssial's will to do?
Moreover, what if that should rage ever collapse? If even the Sun can die, falling behind the horizon, what hopes have the sentiment of a single man? Humans are designed for fear, to experience terror upon terror so that they might more frequently and ably plead and implore the divine. And so, emotion is fleeting, a 'feature' allowing recurrent prayer. Anger too then, no matter how acrid and heartfelt, must eventually fade with the passage of time, leaving only cold ashes and a goal without foundation. Perhaps Odyssial will be able to sustain the burning rage at his core through the destruction of all his enemies, perhaps not. Emotions are unpredictable in that manner. But should he succeed, what then? With all the verve and spirit gone along with his agenda, will he allow himself to collapse a hollow monument to death and vengeance? It is a possibility I suppose, but not a particularly likely one, as driven as Odyssial is and shall be. It must then be considered the effect of century upon century of unending enmity, the self-reinforcing ire that stands Odyssial through his years of war. He would have stoked the flame of his rage day after day with each new or repeated atrocity, each barbarity, intensifying the fire within until it becomes part of him. Can he survive without that buoying passion or will he seek out some new vendetta to rekindle the spark that has fueled him across the centuries? His passion would then become self-consuming, requiring new and greater fuel to avoid growing cold and empty, devoid of the purpose that is his life. Further, in and of itself, fury can only be destructive, it cannot in itself build, only tear down. He has lived seeking out enemy after enemy, leaving their corpses behind him and also the burned fields and torn homes. When becoming history's greatest killer is in and of itself his goal, the aftermath can only end in death. And death is an everyday occurrence in Creation, so common as to be expected. Nio, his dear sister, achieved his survival not through prayer or divine intervention but through effort and study in a sorcerous talisman manufactured of her own hands and mind. Knowing she would die, she chose to save all that she could. Sacrifice such as this should be honored, yet to fixate upon it is no honor but instead condemnation. Forging a path of death purely for the sake of death cannot blaze new ground. No, it is not wrong to care, but expending all his effort in service of a single emotion can only but blind Odyssial to the alternative possibilities.
Assuredly, Odyssial feels guilt. How can he not. Even if he knows the logic is unsound, it is human to assume some measure of responsibility. It was his choice to walk among the Daeva, to become known to them, to draw their interest, to rise above the invisible insects that litter the world broken and unlamented by any except their fellows. But yet that is shallow reasoning - the appearance of Lethos was entirely beyond his control. His striving could not possibly have contributed to its coming and the schemes of Larsyifex derive from that shatterpoint. Yes, he may have walked among the daeva uncovered and unmasked, but perhaps the conceived charades would have merely provoked an earlier response and doomed himself without recourse? And were this to have passed, who would have stood in defense of those few survivors and ensured their lives to this juncture? Even without this daeva's passion for gaming, there is not, cannot, be a guarantee that they would have passed without encounter the myriad other daeva that litter this world.
No, no matter his regrets, the past cannot be altered. This is a fundamental rule above all others, time is immutable. The dead will remain so, and no amount of effort, nor monstrous will, can countermand this eventuality. This event, as all things, is a lesson, a tutelage that he will not soon forget, but to dwell upon how things might have been is both to dishonor the memory of the fallen and to abandon the opportunity held in the future. The tears must burn in his eyes and the pain cloy his throat, but a defeat, however monumental, is no reason to accept that things must always remain thus, to be bound by a failure to accept weakness in purpose and spirit. Odyssial is not beholden to false pride - he acknowledges his faults and works endlessly to expunge them - and it is hubris to accept responsibility for the outcomes of all possible choice. So far as his actions have in part contributed to this outcome, he will reflect and he will emerge with a greater appreciation for consequences. After all, once burned, twice shy. But to accept the possibility of limitations is to acknowledge the inevitability of defeat; to allow the prospect of weakness is to allow excuses for failure. After all, some things are beyond him. It is understandable that he cannot stand against that foe, overcome that mountain. Yet no man can stand when he betrays himself and that path would be the greatest betrayal possible, for it would sacrifice the chance of success on the altar of bitter contrition. Would he have succeeded if he had tried the slighest bit more, worked the slightest bit harder? These questions would haunt him, and each such thought would dishonor the deaths that have come previously, as these would be an anchor upon Odyssial's soul pulling him down to guilt-ridden resentment. Better to have toiled until his hands bled and his bones cracked, so that he knows he has worked his best, surpassed all proclivity for debility, so that he might stand at his best and greatest even at the moment of his impending death, to strive ever higher and farther beyond all measure. No one is served if Odyssial is burdened by that most terrible of questions, "What if I had?" For in truth, this world is made for the daeva and the gods and those like them. It is not that they are too strong, though this is true, but rather that Odyssial and those he has lost are too weak.
Before all else must come survival. Nothing can be achieved if death ends Odyssial's ambition before it has a chance to enact his will. Thus, his rage, his guilt, must be turned to this higher purpose, for upon the crux of Odyssial's life rests all the potential of his existence. To that end, the truth of this world must be acknowledged, must be examined, must be dissected if there is to be any chance of overcoming it. But Odyssial has not yet reached that stature; though he may bend the rules, he cannot break them. Idealism is insufficient and delusion will lead him astray; weakness cannot be afforded if he is to seek an end to the status quo. And so he will play by the rules of the Lords of Creation because ultimately, humans are made to be weak - it is their purpose so that they have reason to fear, reason to pray. It is not their fault and no blame lies upon them for this, but still the fact remains. The innocent perish and the kind suffer. And so they die, by the droves and the hundreds and the thousands, unremarked and undignified. Death is the fate of all humans, and he cannot change the past. Yet still Odyssial will tread forward, stripping himself of weakness, of infirmity, so that upon the next day of crisis he will not be found wanting. Reality is cold, and so too will he be cold. He will seek out every advantage, labor for every strength, ponder every action, strip himself of all that might diminish his will and limit his reach. As he cannot depend upon others to succeed, he must discover every chance for himself. He will survive until that day when the edicts of reality bow to his will. Until this world permits sensitivity without punishment. In the end, this world obeys only power and only while living can he seek it. Thus Odyssial will find a way. He can do no less and still be Odyssial.
Edit: Added a few lines and corrected a few incomplete areas.
-----------
Creation is not kind to humanity. This fact underlies all possible rationale for this decision, but thus far has lain fallow, an unspoken truism. But the fact of the matter is that it is only unkind because human survival on anything beyond the broadest populations levels is an afterthought. Humanity were conceived and forged as tools, engines of worship to fuel the power of gods and daeva alike. Their sapience, their emotions, their will exists only so that they are more efficient at this task in service of their betters, and they are purposefully designed without the ability to rise above this position. It is of no concern to the alien minds that held and still hold the tools of Creation whether the beauty of acid streams and flensing winds are apparent to human conciousness as their flesh melts and their skin is flayed. They are in fact designed for the contrary, to fear the myriad features of this greater world so that they turn to the superstitions that feed their function as one feeds a fire. So long as this quota is met, the tools function well and one cares for the well-being of a tool only insofar that it adequately serves its purpose. An individual human is less than chaff, less than a thought.
Odyssial has understood the position of his race, on at least the most gross terms if not all the esoteric details (though the introductory piece indicates he knows the majority of these as well), for the entirety of his life. He will have grown while hearing of the fall of tribe after city after civilization, in some cases due to malice but more generally just as a fact of life, no more predictable than the weather and with as little explanation. He would not possibly be a stranger to the loss of kin and friends or even just the familiar stranger that frequents a certain park until he one day disappears. It is simply the way of the world, as unchanging as the Sun. The pain and struggle of life in Creation is familiar to this man and he, his culture, has internalized it so that they might best game the system as it were.
He has worked the majority of his life to meet this goal, to become all that is humanly possible, in search of security for those he holds dear and to create a foundation for more, for a rise beyond the means and the unconscious prospects imposed by their creators. He has met with the Daeva, learned what small portion he can comprehend of their ways, walked among them as more than an insect to be unknowingly crushed, even if only rising to the position of a minor animal that crosses the path of those so much greater. But it has never been enough. And in a single year, all he has known is gone. His home is crushed, his people torn from him one by one.
Assuredly, Odyssial feels fury. How can he not. The corpse of his last family lies before him and the murderer speaks of winning a gamble. This monstrosity seeks to manipulate him, to impose the most extreme guilt, merely for its own amusement, to beat the odds and accrue greater reward. He is a game, his sister was a game, his family was a game, his entire race are a game. The hate he must feel, to be the lifelong toys of uncaring masters who barely deem to acknowledge that humans exist beyond the needs of god and daeva. Antipathy will drive his blade harder, push him to end all those responsible. Yes, anger will form a great and most terrible resolve to end those Odyssial perceives his enemy. "Let them suffer the fury of his thousandfold vengeance, and pray he does not ask more." Yet what is this more? What could unceasing anger drive a man of Odyssial's will to do?
Moreover, what if that should rage ever collapse? If even the Sun can die, falling behind the horizon, what hopes have the sentiment of a single man? Humans are designed for fear, to experience terror upon terror so that they might more frequently and ably plead and implore the divine. And so, emotion is fleeting, a 'feature' allowing recurrent prayer. Anger too then, no matter how acrid and heartfelt, must eventually fade with the passage of time, leaving only cold ashes and a goal without foundation. Perhaps Odyssial will be able to sustain the burning rage at his core through the destruction of all his enemies, perhaps not. Emotions are unpredictable in that manner. But should he succeed, what then? With all the verve and spirit gone along with his agenda, will he allow himself to collapse a hollow monument to death and vengeance? It is a possibility I suppose, but not a particularly likely one, as driven as Odyssial is and shall be. It must then be considered the effect of century upon century of unending enmity, the self-reinforcing ire that stands Odyssial through his years of war. He would have stoked the flame of his rage day after day with each new or repeated atrocity, each barbarity, intensifying the fire within until it becomes part of him. Can he survive without that buoying passion or will he seek out some new vendetta to rekindle the spark that has fueled him across the centuries? His passion would then become self-consuming, requiring new and greater fuel to avoid growing cold and empty, devoid of the purpose that is his life. Further, in and of itself, fury can only be destructive, it cannot in itself build, only tear down. He has lived seeking out enemy after enemy, leaving their corpses behind him and also the burned fields and torn homes. When becoming history's greatest killer is in and of itself his goal, the aftermath can only end in death. And death is an everyday occurrence in Creation, so common as to be expected. Nio, his dear sister, achieved his survival not through prayer or divine intervention but through effort and study in a sorcerous talisman manufactured of her own hands and mind. Knowing she would die, she chose to save all that she could. Sacrifice such as this should be honored, yet to fixate upon it is no honor but instead condemnation. Forging a path of death purely for the sake of death cannot blaze new ground. No, it is not wrong to care, but expending all his effort in service of a single emotion can only but blind Odyssial to the alternative possibilities.
Assuredly, Odyssial feels guilt. How can he not. Even if he knows the logic is unsound, it is human to assume some measure of responsibility. It was his choice to walk among the Daeva, to become known to them, to draw their interest, to rise above the invisible insects that litter the world broken and unlamented by any except their fellows. But yet that is shallow reasoning - the appearance of Lethos was entirely beyond his control. His striving could not possibly have contributed to its coming and the schemes of Larsyifex derive from that shatterpoint. Yes, he may have walked among the daeva uncovered and unmasked, but perhaps the conceived charades would have merely provoked an earlier response and doomed himself without recourse? And were this to have passed, who would have stood in defense of those few survivors and ensured their lives to this juncture? Even without this daeva's passion for gaming, there is not, cannot, be a guarantee that they would have passed without encounter the myriad other daeva that litter this world.
No, no matter his regrets, the past cannot be altered. This is a fundamental rule above all others, time is immutable. The dead will remain so, and no amount of effort, nor monstrous will, can countermand this eventuality. This event, as all things, is a lesson, a tutelage that he will not soon forget, but to dwell upon how things might have been is both to dishonor the memory of the fallen and to abandon the opportunity held in the future. The tears must burn in his eyes and the pain cloy his throat, but a defeat, however monumental, is no reason to accept that things must always remain thus, to be bound by a failure to accept weakness in purpose and spirit. Odyssial is not beholden to false pride - he acknowledges his faults and works endlessly to expunge them - and it is hubris to accept responsibility for the outcomes of all possible choice. So far as his actions have in part contributed to this outcome, he will reflect and he will emerge with a greater appreciation for consequences. After all, once burned, twice shy. But to accept the possibility of limitations is to acknowledge the inevitability of defeat; to allow the prospect of weakness is to allow excuses for failure. After all, some things are beyond him. It is understandable that he cannot stand against that foe, overcome that mountain. Yet no man can stand when he betrays himself and that path would be the greatest betrayal possible, for it would sacrifice the chance of success on the altar of bitter contrition. Would he have succeeded if he had tried the slighest bit more, worked the slightest bit harder? These questions would haunt him, and each such thought would dishonor the deaths that have come previously, as these would be an anchor upon Odyssial's soul pulling him down to guilt-ridden resentment. Better to have toiled until his hands bled and his bones cracked, so that he knows he has worked his best, surpassed all proclivity for debility, so that he might stand at his best and greatest even at the moment of his impending death, to strive ever higher and farther beyond all measure. No one is served if Odyssial is burdened by that most terrible of questions, "What if I had?" For in truth, this world is made for the daeva and the gods and those like them. It is not that they are too strong, though this is true, but rather that Odyssial and those he has lost are too weak.
Before all else must come survival. Nothing can be achieved if death ends Odyssial's ambition before it has a chance to enact his will. Thus, his rage, his guilt, must be turned to this higher purpose, for upon the crux of Odyssial's life rests all the potential of his existence. To that end, the truth of this world must be acknowledged, must be examined, must be dissected if there is to be any chance of overcoming it. But Odyssial has not yet reached that stature; though he may bend the rules, he cannot break them. Idealism is insufficient and delusion will lead him astray; weakness cannot be afforded if he is to seek an end to the status quo. And so he will play by the rules of the Lords of Creation because ultimately, humans are made to be weak - it is their purpose so that they have reason to fear, reason to pray. It is not their fault and no blame lies upon them for this, but still the fact remains. The innocent perish and the kind suffer. And so they die, by the droves and the hundreds and the thousands, unremarked and undignified. Death is the fate of all humans, and he cannot change the past. Yet still Odyssial will tread forward, stripping himself of weakness, of infirmity, so that upon the next day of crisis he will not be found wanting. Reality is cold, and so too will he be cold. He will seek out every advantage, labor for every strength, ponder every action, strip himself of all that might diminish his will and limit his reach. As he cannot depend upon others to succeed, he must discover every chance for himself. He will survive until that day when the edicts of reality bow to his will. Until this world permits sensitivity without punishment. In the end, this world obeys only power and only while living can he seek it. Thus Odyssial will find a way. He can do no less and still be Odyssial.
Edit: Added a few lines and corrected a few incomplete areas.
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Huh. Can we smear a cogolem stone with the poison?
Rihaku
The Internet
Indrik, do you have a word count for that? Even if it's unfinished, it's worth good XP.
To what end?
To what end?
Currently, 2042. But I'll probably continue with minor editing for the next few minutes, so it might grow or shrink by up to a few dozen.
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Probably to make him take more time and care in removing stones that weigh him down I guess.
I wonder if there's something else we can do with the poison?
Like, maybe putting him into some sort of situation where he has to pro-actively act in order to avoid... I dunno, disgrace to the poisoned material or something! Hold the poison hostage!
I've just read the snippet again, and it might be the wrong impression, but did the poison perhaps help strike it deeper? Could be that the knife is just that sharp, but if the poison somehow makes the weapons pass through its defenses...
Edit: Or perhaps having poisoned knives in front of us messes with its perception?..
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Nah, the poison's just technically part of its progenitor, so it was treating it with what passes for respect! Our knives are more worthy of that than we are, apparently. Bloody Daevas...
Rihaku
The Internet
Probably to make him take more time and care in removing stones that weigh him down I guess.
I wonder if there's something else we can do with the poison?
Like, maybe putting him into some sort of situation where he has to pro-actively act in order to avoid... I dunno, disgrace to the poisoned material or something! Hold the poison hostage!
You're... on the right track, actually.
It didn't strike very deep, not for a throw at that range given Odyssial's STR 4.
What if we smear that poison on ourselves? How quickly does it do its work?
Edit:Ninja Daeva can't catch us if we're on fire poisoned!
Edit:
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Worst comes to worst, we can just hold the knives hostage.
Suck that, Larsyifex!
Suck that, Larsyifex!
Hmm, along those lines then, somehow forcing Larsyifex to act in some way contrary to his greater self, Lethos? How exactly do subordinate souls function when placed in opposition to the higher level entity?
Thing is, his objective is good for everyone, so in a roundabout way he does care about other people. He pursues his goal because of the shits he gives, not despite them. It's just that if he completes the Infinite Singularity Husk, the resulting world will be so utterly perfect and glorious that any action taken in the pursuit of its creation is justifiable. He is not unlike Noximilien in that regard.
Heh, classic.
But if we wanted to use it as armor what we'd actually probably try to do is maybe smear some of that poison on an Amulet or something and then make sure it does not touch our skin.
Or if not an amulet, then what about a tarp or cloak or something? Whether it would be something we would wrap around ourselves (to prevent him striking us), or something we would use to cover him?
Or...
Wait wait, what if we covered ropes with the poison?
Make a trap that entangles him with a rope or net that has the poison on it. If he has to avoid tearing it, that means he can't get out of it as easily!
Actually it doesn't necessarily even have to be a trap; it could be bolas or a lasso for example!
Can we try that Rihaku?
EDIT: Or maybe what we actually have to do, is force him to break an object that has the poison on it? Like some sort of Geass, where you must not do a thing, and that thing being "go against his greater-self such as via harming byproducts such as poison".
In which case we'd set up something that isn't exactly a trap; or rather, not an obvious trap. Because the point of it would be to have him stumble into it and accidentally break a twig or plant or whatever covered with poison.
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- Location
- The savanna.
Beat you to it, guys. We can rub it on ourselves and not die horribly.
Exactly. It is strict utilitarianism, really. The Greatest Good for the Greatest Number. By freeing humanity from the current rules of existence, he in essence is saving everyone alive at that point or born thereafter. Presumably, due to the decrease in random death by Daeva under such circumstances, these would outweigh the losses suffered in previous times. And any path will have sacrifices, it is unavoidable. The aim of Coldness is to focus upon the eventual good rather than current (though likely there will be at least some in present times as well), which is to my mind a fair conceit as the status quo (as defined by the Daeva and Primordials) is unending by design. It isn't as if Odyssial could possibly predict the Primordial War or the like. Logically, the stronger Odyssial grows, the more he is able to save now and in the future. A stronger Odyssial is better for everyone from a pragmatic viewpoint, leaving aside the prospect of personal sentiment.
Rihaku
The Internet
Hm. Depending on how time works, that would "kill" everyone born in the present timeline after his intervention, or leave them stranded in the ruins of his shattered world. Was it actually possible for Nox to succeed in the way he wanted?
Not to say that Nox is analogous to Odyssial, of course. The magnitudes of power and level of dedication are vastly different.
Man, I wish Odyssial could become a ghost just to tell the daeva's friends what kind of cheating dick he is.
Poisoned spikes? Whether on armor or trap, such that if he does anything his own action causes him to get hit with the poison. (If working under the guess that "intent matters; i.e. if it is his own hand doing it, it matters" sort of thing.)
Although maybe going "Arnold vs Predator" and covering yourself withmud poison really is the way to go, you could be right.
Hmm, sounds risky. He can still cut non-poisoned parts of us; and then if anything gets into that open wound, we're fucked. I considered covering with poison, but that just felt a bit more risky than wearing poisoned armor...
Although maybe going "Arnold vs Predator" and covering yourself with