To keep her safe. If she is at the point where her becoming Empress is possible, that is far less relevant.
[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
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- exalted (white wolf)
The Empress was just a random officer before she cut her way into the Imperial Manse and seized the Sword. But you do have a point in saying that such plans are premature before consulting Moon.
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My reaction was "I hope we have dots in Sail if we're going to be an admiral. *checks* What a relief."
Man, that was a mess. How do you do all that without going insane?
Btw, for future needs, is there a certan cut-off point for the length of reasoning?
Btw, for future needs, is there a certan cut-off point for the length of reasoning?
[x] Tell the truth, keep the sword
I was just reminding people that Moon is her own person not a drone that does whatever we plan for her. So we should treat her like a person and get her opinion on such matters. It's more likely to make her happier with us in the long run.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
Weeeell, that was a lot to catch up on. I'm not even bothering wading into the fight over the Moon-waifu. I'd considered a stunt but at this point it's a bit late and I didn't have the chance due to work.
As far as Zao's plans for Ulyssian, they are workable. They may not be ambitious enough. And, ironically, Ambition itself would offer a chance to rectify that. If we gave it to Zao.
The Dragonblooded need to be unified if Creation is to be saved. That is a necessary, though perhaps not sufficient, condition of any victory. They need to be unified under one of their own to avoid the mistakes of the First Age and, bluntly, to make any kind of unification of the broader Exalted Host possible. The emergence of one of the legendary Shoguns in might and glory eclipsing that of Her Redness would certainly be helpful in that regard. Zao might be able to claim the allegiance of Lookshy as well as be the best "anyone but Mnemon" candidate. Ulyssian would be his strong right arm, bringing aboard the Sesus and brokering alliances to create an overwhelming coalition that even Mnemon would have to bow to. And then Nilul can reveal the truth of the Empress' disappearance to the Great Houses (perhaps first, Mnemon, since she knows anyway and is terrified of it) and mobilize the Realm to resist the Yozis and all the other threats closing in on it.
Of course, a united Realm is necessary but perhaps not sufficient. The Handsome Monkey King may require a Solar Exalt of surpassing power to overcome. The Deathlords remain a serious collective threat requiring puissant combatants beyond the reach of most Dragonblooded to slay. The wonders of the First Age were only possible with the Solars. But even the Solars needed their Lunar mates and Sidereal advisors. Unifying the Exalted by having Ulyssian slip out into the Threshold and make deals with the reasonable ones, contacting Lealope along the way to aid him, and dealing with the unreasonable ones would be a start. Ulyssian must unify the Anathema around his leadership and piece the Sidereals back together into an functioning organization. Only then can Zao lead a reformation of the Immaculate Order into something... else. Maybe Ulyssian will need to go to Yu Shan and drag the Unconquered Sun out of the Jade Pleasure Dome so he can ordain a new unity among the Exalted and correct the whole "Anathema" misunderstanding.
Since Ulyssian cannot be Zao's successor it should be obvious who the next Shogun should be. Although Zao might have to marry Mnemon to make the political alliances to unify the Dragonblooded work. She'd probably assume she'd succeed but frankly, a crisis in the Dragonblooded host a century after the Realm has stabilized and the Celestial Exalted have started working together again will be far less dangerous than the crisis among the Dragonblooded right now is.
Giving Ambition to Zao would probably let us speed that all up. Significantly.
As far as Zao's plans for Ulyssian, they are workable. They may not be ambitious enough. And, ironically, Ambition itself would offer a chance to rectify that. If we gave it to Zao.
The Dragonblooded need to be unified if Creation is to be saved. That is a necessary, though perhaps not sufficient, condition of any victory. They need to be unified under one of their own to avoid the mistakes of the First Age and, bluntly, to make any kind of unification of the broader Exalted Host possible. The emergence of one of the legendary Shoguns in might and glory eclipsing that of Her Redness would certainly be helpful in that regard. Zao might be able to claim the allegiance of Lookshy as well as be the best "anyone but Mnemon" candidate. Ulyssian would be his strong right arm, bringing aboard the Sesus and brokering alliances to create an overwhelming coalition that even Mnemon would have to bow to. And then Nilul can reveal the truth of the Empress' disappearance to the Great Houses (perhaps first, Mnemon, since she knows anyway and is terrified of it) and mobilize the Realm to resist the Yozis and all the other threats closing in on it.
Of course, a united Realm is necessary but perhaps not sufficient. The Handsome Monkey King may require a Solar Exalt of surpassing power to overcome. The Deathlords remain a serious collective threat requiring puissant combatants beyond the reach of most Dragonblooded to slay. The wonders of the First Age were only possible with the Solars. But even the Solars needed their Lunar mates and Sidereal advisors. Unifying the Exalted by having Ulyssian slip out into the Threshold and make deals with the reasonable ones, contacting Lealope along the way to aid him, and dealing with the unreasonable ones would be a start. Ulyssian must unify the Anathema around his leadership and piece the Sidereals back together into an functioning organization. Only then can Zao lead a reformation of the Immaculate Order into something... else. Maybe Ulyssian will need to go to Yu Shan and drag the Unconquered Sun out of the Jade Pleasure Dome so he can ordain a new unity among the Exalted and correct the whole "Anathema" misunderstanding.
Since Ulyssian cannot be Zao's successor it should be obvious who the next Shogun should be. Although Zao might have to marry Mnemon to make the political alliances to unify the Dragonblooded work. She'd probably assume she'd succeed but frankly, a crisis in the Dragonblooded host a century after the Realm has stabilized and the Celestial Exalted have started working together again will be far less dangerous than the crisis among the Dragonblooded right now is.
Giving Ambition to Zao would probably let us speed that all up. Significantly.
While I agree that Zao himself could do a lot to save the world, I'm afraid what him having Ambition will do to us. We might suddenly become redundant or an obstacle for future expansion.
Right now, Solars are a necessity. Once the DBs are united, it's back to the days of the Wyld hunt - no quarters given. For the first decade or so that might take second priority to saving the world but it'll get there. And if Zao has Ambition, that foresight will let him see this as well and that could be a problem.
The most glorious path for us is thus to rule the world with force of arms then have a Shogun as our puppet ruler under us. We then united the other Solars and press gang them into service under us as well to fight the enemies that the DBs can't fight.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Mental math. And not really, it's sort of an eyeball situation.
If you asked, she would say yes. But should you ask this of her? She's only eighteen. Should she invest such a great portion of her own future power into a weapon that will cause her actions, willingly or not, to serve your interests? A weapon which you can at any time recall? Is that a decision she is qualified to make? It's not necessarily a matter of intelligence, or ability. It may be a matter of how certain she really is that this will make her happy, and how well she truly knows herself.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
[X] The truth
While there's good points and bad points for giving Moon the sword I'm 100% behind telling her the truth.
While there's good points and bad points for giving Moon the sword I'm 100% behind telling her the truth.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
The Wyld Hunt worked when backed up with the full support of the Bronze Faction, a unified Realm with literally nothing more pressing than hunting down Solars, and only a dozen or so Solar Exaltations in existence to worry about. The addition of ~134 Solars, 101 Abyssals, and 50 Infernals (if those numbers even remain constant in 3E) is a major increase in their targets. And it's still going to take the Realm years to sort itself out beyond just mobilizing to defend itself against the Reclamation assuming we are lucky/good enough to avoid a civil war. By that time all those Solars are going to be pretty puissant indeed, and if Ulyssian has unified them and has the Lunars and Sidereals supporting him... well, the odds were a lot worse during the Usurpation.
And Ambition's compulsion is to work toward Ulyssian's benefit. Mind, I half-fear that might be "set Zao up to build an empire and then job to Ulyssian so he can take it over." Though, yeah, admittedly, I did consider that angle. I just think there are too many threats requiring Solars to deal with for the Dragonblooded to be able to stab them in the back.
*Orihime Flashbacks*
Only this time we don't get the benefit of personal power out of playing on our friend's good nature.
[x] Tell the truth, keep the sword
Moon and Stars, Vote Update
Rihaku
The Internet
I've got to sift through the arguments made for the persuasion choice, so the continuation of that line will have to wait a while longer. However, I do have a quite important decision point for you, one that may inform your choice of sword and truth:
Zao has many plans for you, but of course it is ultimately your cooperation that makes them work. He sees three primary options, and you can pick which suits you. For now, we will focus on the six months to follow.
[ ] Swift Deployment. There is no substitute for experience, it is said. Well, you've little enough experience with Exalted combat in this Age, though you do have Odyssial's memories to draw upon. Still, that your body is the same does not mean your nerves have developed to his extent. Without the context of combat, training is much less useful.
There are countless areas where a single Exalt's strategic intervention could increase the sum of your resources or delay Creation's fall. Of these, many are time-sensitive. Chances to do good fade away every day as, one by one, Creation's defenders and decent peoples are overwhelmed. As soon as the festivities are over and the guests have left, have Zao send you on a mission.
*You will have a brief opportunity to talk with your friends before going
*The mission will have high stakes; to send you otherwise would be a waste. If you fail in your inexperience, thousands, perhaps millions of people will likely suffer and die.
*Moderately increases the effects of training in the next few months.
*As you will not always be at the Academy, Zao's enemies are less likely to attack it without cause, especially if you make it hard to determine when you are and aren't there.
*You will have the chance to use your power in a meaningful context. Should you succeed, Creation is safer or you and your allies have secured valuable resources.
*This gets you plot XP fast.
[ ] Develop Connections. Perhaps the most uncomfortable of the options, for Odyssial. Though you will spend most of your time training and studying warfare, tactics, and organization, you will also make full use of your newfound status to develop connections with your House and the Realm. This includes attending, ugh, parties. Just think of it as training, Ulyssian. Social training, the most useless and ineffectual type. But necessary. Yes, necessary.
*You will face true trial and tribulation in the course of these events.
*Your social skills will likely improve enormously.
*Even Ulyssian is unlikely to mess up so that he will reveal himself as Anathema, though who knows, really?
*A visible presence in high society is an easy target for assassins, so at least you'll have something to do at parties, if you're (un?)lucky
*Training time is not significantly slowed by your endeavors socially, unless you want it to be by committing extra time.
*You will be much-better positioned to assume a high-ranking legitimate role.
*May accelerate Zao's timetable for getting you real power, or allow you to reach Admiral-level positions quickly in other areas (House Sesus, the Magistracy, the Deliberative, the Legions, the Immaculate Order)
*You will receive plot XP for attending social events. What stronger incentive to socialize can you get?
[ ] Power & Security. The Academy is not safe, but it is safer than almost anywhere else. You are strong, but you are not strong enough to be confident in your survival given any mission. Training can rectify that. With the fate of nations at stake, it makes no sense to act recklessly or attempt to develop atrophied social skills. What you need is focus, dedication, and precision. Training may not be the same as true combat, but it can replicate it damn well, with Numida as a healer. With laserlike focus, you will get everything you can out of Zao and Ivory's tenure as instructors. You will prepare for the end of the world with the competence, impartiality, and efficiency that such a task demands. You will not fall prey to optimism, loneliness, or excess lust for glory. And when the time comes to change the world, you will have an actual plan, which has been reviewed by actually experienced Exalts, to do so.
*Increased favor with Zao.
*You will focus on your strengths: infiltration and exfiltration, combat, and strategy / tactics.
*You will train to a highly capable level before risking your life on outside ventures, thus minimizing such risk. You are likely, (but not guaranteed) to be able to spend all your XP efficiently before you graduate.
*This does not mean that you will necessarily be safe; the Academy may be itself infiltrated or attacked, but you will be in one of the safest areas in Creation.
*You will have "plenty" (relatively speaking) of time to spend with your friends, even if most of it is training alongside them.
*Slice-of-life boarding school drama Relatively low horrific tragedies Significantly reduced chance of Zao dying, probably, maybe? Okay, probably not, but a man can hope right I mean you can never be sure
Zao has many plans for you, but of course it is ultimately your cooperation that makes them work. He sees three primary options, and you can pick which suits you. For now, we will focus on the six months to follow.
[ ] Swift Deployment. There is no substitute for experience, it is said. Well, you've little enough experience with Exalted combat in this Age, though you do have Odyssial's memories to draw upon. Still, that your body is the same does not mean your nerves have developed to his extent. Without the context of combat, training is much less useful.
There are countless areas where a single Exalt's strategic intervention could increase the sum of your resources or delay Creation's fall. Of these, many are time-sensitive. Chances to do good fade away every day as, one by one, Creation's defenders and decent peoples are overwhelmed. As soon as the festivities are over and the guests have left, have Zao send you on a mission.
*You will have a brief opportunity to talk with your friends before going
*The mission will have high stakes; to send you otherwise would be a waste. If you fail in your inexperience, thousands, perhaps millions of people will likely suffer and die.
*Moderately increases the effects of training in the next few months.
*As you will not always be at the Academy, Zao's enemies are less likely to attack it without cause, especially if you make it hard to determine when you are and aren't there.
*You will have the chance to use your power in a meaningful context. Should you succeed, Creation is safer or you and your allies have secured valuable resources.
*This gets you plot XP fast.
[ ] Develop Connections. Perhaps the most uncomfortable of the options, for Odyssial. Though you will spend most of your time training and studying warfare, tactics, and organization, you will also make full use of your newfound status to develop connections with your House and the Realm. This includes attending, ugh, parties. Just think of it as training, Ulyssian. Social training, the most useless and ineffectual type. But necessary. Yes, necessary.
*You will face true trial and tribulation in the course of these events.
*Your social skills will likely improve enormously.
*Even Ulyssian is unlikely to mess up so that he will reveal himself as Anathema, though who knows, really?
*A visible presence in high society is an easy target for assassins, so at least you'll have something to do at parties, if you're (un?)lucky
*Training time is not significantly slowed by your endeavors socially, unless you want it to be by committing extra time.
*You will be much-better positioned to assume a high-ranking legitimate role.
*May accelerate Zao's timetable for getting you real power, or allow you to reach Admiral-level positions quickly in other areas (House Sesus, the Magistracy, the Deliberative, the Legions, the Immaculate Order)
*You will receive plot XP for attending social events. What stronger incentive to socialize can you get?
[ ] Power & Security. The Academy is not safe, but it is safer than almost anywhere else. You are strong, but you are not strong enough to be confident in your survival given any mission. Training can rectify that. With the fate of nations at stake, it makes no sense to act recklessly or attempt to develop atrophied social skills. What you need is focus, dedication, and precision. Training may not be the same as true combat, but it can replicate it damn well, with Numida as a healer. With laserlike focus, you will get everything you can out of Zao and Ivory's tenure as instructors. You will prepare for the end of the world with the competence, impartiality, and efficiency that such a task demands. You will not fall prey to optimism, loneliness, or excess lust for glory. And when the time comes to change the world, you will have an actual plan, which has been reviewed by actually experienced Exalts, to do so.
*Increased favor with Zao.
*You will focus on your strengths: infiltration and exfiltration, combat, and strategy / tactics.
*You will train to a highly capable level before risking your life on outside ventures, thus minimizing such risk. You are likely, (but not guaranteed) to be able to spend all your XP efficiently before you graduate.
*This does not mean that you will necessarily be safe; the Academy may be itself infiltrated or attacked, but you will be in one of the safest areas in Creation.
*You will have "plenty" (relatively speaking) of time to spend with your friends, even if most of it is training alongside them.
*
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[X] Power & Security.
This makes the most of the resources we have, rather than pushing Ulyssian into excessive danger or areas he is uncomfortable with and poorly suited for. We also get to finally meet Numida, Anys' daughter.
This makes the most of the resources we have, rather than pushing Ulyssian into excessive danger or areas he is uncomfortable with and poorly suited for. We also get to finally meet Numida, Anys' daughter.
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Guile
Having a really great time right now
I would enjoy that a lot. But alas, you came too late.
[X] Develop Connections.
Rihaku
The Internet
Man, how lame is that? That's what the man would do.
What would Control say?
And you might not get as much Plot XP. Dat plot.
[X] Swift Deployment.
Go out there and be someone!
Go out there and be someone!
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Well to me, each of Zao's plans best works within the context of other plans. Swift Deployment best suits an Ulyssian who kept Ambition, whether he told Moon the truth or not. Develop Connections is largely unnecessary if we plan to set up Zao or Moon as the Next Shogun. If Moon ends up with the Sword I'd favor Power and Security, training together with her to reach grand heights.