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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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Alectai said:
Zao may be bullshit, but he's hit his peak--most Exalts don't typically continue growing stronger in their last percentage of lifespan.

Moon is new, kindhearted, and has all of Zao's potential. More importantly, she's a big enough player in the next year or two of development that giving her the boost of Ambition would pay off very well--let's not forget that Zao is already bullshit, but he's a Known Factor, and everyone is actively looking at his deeds--and he'll be hard pressed to make time to master Ambition while countering every other plot going on.

We're essentially trading in an initial investment of time and energy to generate another Big Player. We lose some personal power, but we gain an ally in a good position to legitimately claim the Blessed Isle without causing a clusterfuck, and the Dragon Blooded got the Great Curse extremely lightly--which means that if we can bring her to Solar Level, We have someone who can call bullshit in bigger Solar excesses.
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Orm Embar said:
A salient point. Zao may have more power to go with Ambition, but Moon has all his potential, coupled with the fact that she's... well, a student. It's her job to learn things. She is perfectly positioned to make use of this opportunity, and we are perfectly motivated to give her that chance.
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I will second these statements. Moon receiving Ambition will cause some serious waves in places. While the surprise factor of Zao manifestly increasing his deadliness is not to be underestimated, I think that giving it to Moon is probably a better idea. She has a similar surprise factor, and general capacity in extremis, but also is SIGNIFICANTLY less hardened by grief. If nothing else she's optimistic and giving HER the power to operate on a Solar level will give us another ally who can do so, and one who isn't likely to be caught in the throes of the Great Curse.

It IS a thing that the Great Curse tends to strengthen as its bearers age no? Moon is young and idealistic, whereas Zao is old and hardened. See his primary choice to keep Moon as 'a mushroom' despite her capacities for fear of what might happen to her.

Also, given that some of the nature of Ambition is to share/enhance others with Uly/ody's Will to Power, I want to see what happens when it's in someone else's hands. So I'm adding [x] Willing to give Ambition to Moon (counts as 2 concessions)

My votes are generally predicated on preventing Moon from experiencing the betrayal though, that massive emotional trauma is not optimal!
 
Okay, it seems like the main complication is between plans that want to tell Moon the truth vs plans that want to tell her that you Exalted as a Fire Aspect. You guys know you can also just give her Ambition without telling Zao about it, if you want her to have it irregardless of this vote. That would also be safer. But it's not like Zao with Ambition would end the quest. It would be very interesting, and not lack for helpfulness to you. It just isn't as unambiguously good as you might think.
 
[X] Somehow

We could always just spend all of our time around moon. Then we wouldn't have to worry about assassins because we can just kill them ourselves.
 
Xsi said:
A lot of what Ambition can do wasn't listed (SMA, for one), I don't see why new aspects of Away wouldn't've popped up. I think we more voted on themes, not totality of the sword. These are N/A busted artifacts either way. (Although the mindwarping of Ambition isn't helping us here.)
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Away is there to kill stuff we don't like.
It's what it does.
It does nothing outside of this theme.
That's the beauty of it.

In contrast we now have a blade whose DRM doesn't actually ensure it comes back to us, if it ends up with anyone sufficiently competent, and warps the mind of any ally we give it to more and more into a Heartlessness 10 tyrant hell-bent on achieving Odyssial's goals themselves.
Even giving it to Moon sounds more and more laughable given that the thought that someone more mutable and young wouldn't be twisted by Ambition even more is utterly ridiculous, which should honestly be apparent by the fact that she'd likely be calling herself Winter Empress for a reason.
 
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I just wanted to make it explicit clear that I don't want to give out Ambition. Other wise you can count me for:
[x]He's right
[x]Plan Brain_caster
 
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Alright, new idea! We disguise ourselves as Moon and let Uly fade into obscurity! Turns out, her bloodline is even more awesome than anyone could imagine!
...
Man, I'm getting increasingly desperate, aren't I?
 
Rihaku said:
Ivory was carrying her while you fought. Did you fight anyone besides Geminth in that time period? I don't recall any size able opposition.
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I guess there was that one time we ended up on that battlefield just before fighting Geminth but other than that I don't think so. Ivory was with us when we fought Geminth though.
 
At any rate if Zao want's to play the overprotective father that's his concern but since from a meta point of view at least any not in the quest may as well be dead i'd prefer Moon in the quest then not. If it's a problem with protecting her then all we have to do is get strong enough to do that. Since basically all we do in Rihaku's quests is constantly get stronger that should be fine and XP boost from just ignoring Zao and telling Moon anyway will only help us there. We don't need to give Ambition away either since we can just use it to get stronger more quickly.

Persuasion's a waste of time because we don't need Zao to like us. We're his last hope after all.
 
Rihaku said:
No, that's not why. That was because of the Wracking.

The Incarnae had to descend during the Usurpation because their mandate was invoked. Protect Creation from being destroyed.
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WHAT? How the hell

Remembers Ody was G10,H10 had Ambition which let her learn E11 charms, was working on the ISH to rewrite reality, warned about the Usurpation, was acknowledged as the Most High, strongest person alive in creation at that point, AND was probably in his limit break.

......Fairest calming us down from our limit break is the only reason we did not destroy Creation out of spite isn't it.

Also what's this I hear about Zao betraying us thanks to Ambition. It pushes our agenda so why oh fuck Heartlessness 10.
 
We aren't lying to moon if we just don't bring up solar exaltations during our explanation. It doesn't put moon in more danger and takes away the idea that we were using her. It does what we want without diminishing zao's trust in us.

I just don't see the upside to telling her we're an Anathema. What's she going to do that she wouldn't already be doing, minus being more suspicious when talking about ulyssian?
 
dragon said:
We aren't lying to moon if we just don't bring up solar exaltations during our explanation. It doesn't put moon in more danger and takes away the idea that we were using her. It does what we want without diminishing zao's trust in us.
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Which is why I'm voting to persuade Zao, so that he'll accept it and so we don't have to damage our mentor's trust.

And yes we are lying to Moon if we go with this. The plan that was put forward is to tell her we just Exalted as a Fire Aspect, a revised version of what everybody else knows. Not only is it a lie, it is a flimsy one, because anyone with half a brain who examines it critically (and Moon has far more than half a brain and will most assuredly do that), will realize that Zao spontaneously naming a newly Exalted Dragon-Blood, no matter how inspiring he was as a mortal, as his heir... makes no fucking sense. Literally none.
 
Orm Embar said:
Which is why I'm voting to persuade Zao, so that he'll accept it and so we don't have to damage our mentor's trust.

And yes we are lying to Moon if we go with this. The plan that was put forward is to tell her we just Exalted as a Fire Aspect, a revised version of what everybody else knows. Not only is it a lie, it is a flimsy one, because anyone with half a brain who examines it critically (and Moon has far more than half a brain and will most assuredly do that), will realize that Zao spontaneously naming a newly Exalted Dragon-Blood, no matter how inspiring he was as a mortal, as his heir... makes no fucking sense. Literally none.
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Politics and Exalted Ulyssian is BULLSHIT. Even Moon should know this. No wonder Zao grab him. That no random mook Dragon blood.

[X] Keep Ambition for Ulysses. Do not give or loan it out to anyone.


What is Ambition stats @Rihaku? Weapons do have stats in exalted right?
 
Moon's smart. Like, really really really smart. DB Von Neumann here. Flame's going around crowing about Anathema and Uly's story doesn't check out. She can put two and two together, guys.

My guess? She'll come to the truth on her own. We can tell her now and dodge this insipid shitstorm of drama, reaffirming our connection with our waifu, or we can have this come back to bite us in the ass when she figures it out on her own.
 
Van Ropen said:
Of course we are. Feeling justified in the lie is one thing, but no point in lying to ourselves about that.
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Orm Embar said:
Which is why I'm voting to persuade Zao, so that he'll accept it and so we don't have to damage our mentor's trust.

And yes we are lying to Moon if we go with this. The plan that was put forward is to tell her we just Exalted as a Fire Aspect, a revised version of what everybody else knows. Not only is it a lie, it is a flimsy one, because anyone with half a brain who examines it critically (and Moon has far more than half a brain and will most assuredly do that), will realize that Zao spontaneously naming a newly Exalted Dragon-Blood, no matter how inspiring he was as a mortal, as his heir... makes no fucking sense. Literally none.
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Yeah, I still don't see the upside to telling her we're anathema.

Even if she figures it out herself, that still preserves more of Zao's trust and either way she'll know we weren't pretending to be a mortal to play on her sympathy.

There's unlikely to be insipid drama, at least not from Moon. Since if she's smart enough to figure it out then she's smart enough to know how dangerous the knowledge is.
 
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