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[Exalted, ?] Most High

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Rihaku said:
MWA. HA. HA. WHO WILL YOU CHOOSE, ZAO OR MOON?

I'm surprised no one saw this coming. Zao explicitly avoided acknowledging Moon as his daughter, just so that she wouldn't be subject to the attentions of his many, many, many enemies.
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Yea, I remarked on that. Moon's liked Uly for being a mortal, not a, uh, 'secret top-tier DB Exalt'

Hmm.... Let's see, let's see.
Ody would choose Zao.
Uly would... Hmm.
Odyssian? I have no idea.
 
[X] He's Right - He is right. There... can be no future between the two of you, not if you are to maintain this role. Unless you were to take Moon from here into the Threshold, it's simply too dangerous for her. As the person you're closest to, she would become a target for countless assassins, a point of leverage for foe and rival alike. You know Moon is strong enough to defend herself, but the power of Flame drove home well that she is not yet among Creation's titans, not even close.

Never liked Moon much in the first place. And Zao kinda has a good point here.
 
See, the thing is, I'm sorta... unsure on some of Zao's logic here. I mean, while it's true that Moon is not skilled in deception to the degree needed to deceive Sidereals at the same time, it's more than likely the Sidereal we wish most not to know this already knows. Flame WAS talking about how Hesiesh was telling him that Ulyssian was an anathema RIGHT THEN. I think that his argument is, at the most basic level, derived from the fact that he's afraid of Moon. Not a rational fear mind, but I think he's afraid of telling her because of the fact it would mean he'd have to CARE again. I could be wrong, but I get at least SOME read like that off of him.

Plus, Moon is already a target, though we may not know that in character. Anys Syn and her ilk know that she's his daughter, and were going to use her status as the Shogun's heir to plan a truly horrific fate for her. We don't know that in character right now, but I expect our Monster-y buddy does. Can we include her in a stunt for that?

EDIT: also if we DON'T tell her that sorta plays right into Anys and Flame's hands for Anys' master plan doesn't it?
 
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[X] Somehow - Zao has good points. But he can't stop you. It will damage his trust in you, but you cannot accept this. You will find a way around all the vulnerabilities he described. Somehow. [+50,000 XP]

Screw this WE ARE ODYSSIAL and we ALWAYS find a way!
 
Anyway, I want to clarify that, even if you choose He's Right, it doesn't necessarily mean the end of your friendship / relationship with Moon. She will be extremely sad, and feel betrayed, but she might find it within herself to forgive Uly even that, because, because he can't help it, he wasn't trying to hurt her, and she's just being a silly little girl who read too many books, if she seriously believes that a mortal can do what he did. She was the stupid one, he was just doing his job, at the Headmaster's personal command.

But she'd still be sad. Also, if she's your close friend, she's exposed to danger anyway.

inawarminister said:
Yea, I remarked on that. Moon's liked Uly for being a mortal, not a, uh, 'secret top-tier DB Exalt'

Hmm.... Let's see, let's see.
Ody would choose Zao.
Uly would... Hmm.
Odyssian? I have no idea.
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Not necessarily. This is like Odyssial having to choose betwen UCS and Pearl or Lea. He's super grateful to UCS, the literal source of his powers and the entity that saved his life. But...
 
We can't marry a Lost Egg, doesn't mean we still can't be her friend. Also, even if she can't be Ulyssian's wife, plenty of Dynasts have mistresses if she still wants to be more than just a friend.
 
Frankly, it would be funny to see the drama that would ensue if we agree with Zao, but I doubt the playerbase will go that way, so arguments...
Hmm. Well, the obvious solution is training her up to the necessary level, though I don't know how feasible that is.
Another is isolating and protecting her from the opposition as much as possible, perhaps by going on an adventure with Uly (finding awesome relics from the previous Ages!).
Or perhaps just asking Pearl to protect her? Nah, she'll probably be too busy.
Can't think of anything else right now.

Rihaku said:
Anyway, I want to clarify that, even if you choose He's Right, it doesn't necessarily mean the end of your friendship / relationship with Moon. She will be extremely sad, and feel betrayed, but she might find it within herself to forgive Uly even that, because, because he can't help it, he wasn't trying to hurt her, and she's just being a silly little girl who read too many books, if she seriously believes that a mortal can do what he did. She was the stupid one, he was just doing his job, at the Headmaster's personal command.

But she'd still be sad. Also, if she's your close friend, she's exposed to danger anyway.
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Guilt trip much? :p
 
I think we should wait until someone makes an stunt for Pursausive because the only reason I'm not voting yet is because their isn't an stunt for it and I'd be crap at writing stunts.
 
Emerald Oracle said:
See, the thing is, I'm sorta... unsure on some of Zao's logic here. I mean, while it's true that Moon is not skilled in deception to the degree needed to deceive Sidereals at the same time, it's more than likely the Sidereal we wish most not to know this already knows.
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It doesn't stop Syn from knowing, sure, but that's just an example. Any DB Elder will also have the capability, and Syn can point them at her if they need convincing.

Flame WAS talking about how Hesiesh was telling him that Ulyssian was an anathema RIGHT THEN. I think that his argument is, at the most basic level, derived from the fact that he's afraid of Moon. Not a rational fear mind, but I think he's afraid of telling her because of the fact it would mean he'd have to CARE again. I could be wrong, but I get at least SOME read like that off of him.
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Does that relate to Zao's argument? I'm not seeing how, could you clarify?

Plus, Moon is already a target, though we may not know that in character. Anys Syn and her ilk know that she's his daughter, and were going to use her status as the Shogun's heir to plan a truly horrific fate for her. We don't know that in character right now, but I expect our Monster-y buddy does. Can we include her in a stunt for that?
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They're not going to try that while Zao is alive, and the situation has not remotely deteriorated to the point where Syn needs to destroy 90% of her power fighting Zao. Syn is their greatest asset, only Flame himself is more important...
 
[X] He's Right

If you love Moon then choose to let her go for now. Close association with us is dangerous. If we want to make her empress she can't be seen as being soft on Anathema (or possible Anathema), not until she takes the throne. There can be no scandal in Moon's history if she is to get support form the other houses.

For now, we should let the outside world think our relationship has cool off. For her protection. Besides, there's nothing hotter than Forbidden Love (TM).
 
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[X] Somehow - Zao has good points. But he can't stop you. It will damage his trust in you, but you cannot accept this. You will find a way around all the vulnerabilities he described. Somehow. [+50,000 XP]
 
Yeah, we need to make Ivory tell us about the Plan RIGHT NOW.
Moon's already a target. THE target.

At least let Zao think with all the pieces in the game, instead of some.
She's already known to be your bloodline, sir.
 
Unelemental said:
Frankly, it would be funny to see the drama that would ensue if we agree with Zao, but I doubt the playerbase will go that way, so arguments...
Hmm. Well, the obvious solution is training her up to the necessary level, though I don't know how feasible that is.
Another is isolating and protecting her from the opposition as much as possible, perhaps by going on an adventure with Uly (finding awesome relics from the previous Ages!).
Or perhaps just asking Pearl to protect her? Nah, she'll probably be too busy.
Can't think of anything else right now.
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Don't jump to judgement so hastily. The players may well surprise you...

Guilt trip much? :p
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You can mitigate the impact by immediately acting super contrite, telling her her words really touched you, etc etc. But she'll still be in danger if she's your close friend, so what's the point? Unless you just wanna be like, casual friends and not best friends.
 
[X] Somehow - Zao has good points. But he can't stop you. It will damage his trust in you, but you cannot accept this. You will find a way around all the vulnerabilities he described. Somehow. [+50,000 XP]

Never abandon the waifu.

Also, we need some xp right now, we've spent lots on options, let's get some back.
 
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[X] He's Right
Talking to Moon now will at best screw up her world view and potentially put her in danger, at worst it will get us all killed. We're gonna have to wait for a better time to talk to her.​
 
Now see, here's the thing. Compromising on this, destroying Moon's illusions or innocence or whatever, causing her massive emotional trauma like that, it kinda smacks of the whole 'the world is an imperfect thing designed for suffering' thing. This is Ulyssian, or Odyssial, or whoever. He Finds A Way. Granted that's more of an appeal to emotion than a logical argument, but there's some logic in there dammit!

Also, to clarify my point on Zao, it seems like his argument for why we can't tell Moon the truth about what Ulyssian is, is based around the same rationale for why he doesn't tell her who HE is. We've already argued with him about that and whether or not it's justified. The reason his emotional context is relevant is because it may be causing him to be somewhat less than objective.

Also, part of his argument for not telling Moon was that she was not proof against Sidereal manipulation, that a determined Sidereal could get the truth from her, but OOC as far as we're aware the biggest Sidereal threat to us already knows everything she could get out of Moon. Granted there's still Elder Dynasts to worry about, but those are marginally more straightforward than Sidereals... I think.
 
Rihaku said:
You can mitigate the impact by immediately acting super contrite, telling her her words really touched you, etc etc. But she'll still be in danger if she's your close friend, so what's the point? Unless you just wanna be like, casual friends and not best friends.
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That's the problem with unequal relationships. Kind of makes me feel sad for Odyssial.
Though it's really funny how the situation has been somewhat reversed from before Uly's Exaltation. Before, he was the mortal she had to support and shelter (not that it really works that way with Uly), and now she's the Dragon-Blooded we have to let go of if he want her to be safe.
 
[X] He's Right - He is right. There... can be no future between the two of you, not if you are to maintain this role. Unless you were to take Moon from here into the Threshold, it's simply too dangerous for her. As the person you're closest to, she would become a target for countless assassins, a point of leverage for foe and rival alike. You know Moon is strong enough to defend herself, but the power of Flame drove home well that she is not yet among Creation's titans, not even close.

Zao is my husbando, anyway.
 
Wait, if Ivory now accepts that she is Pearl. Can she go out and contact Lea for us? After all it seems that Pearl, Lea, and Odyssial were inseparable friends, so Lea would probably believe him and transfer the resources that Odyssial had squirreled away.
 
Emerald Oracle said:
Now see, here's the thing. Compromising on this, destroying Moon's illusions or innocence or whatever, causing her massive emotional trauma like that, it kinda smacks of the whole 'the world is an imperfect thing designed for suffering' thing. This is Ulyssian, or Odyssial, or whoever. He Finds A Way. Granted that's more of an appeal to emotion than a logical argument, but there's some logic in there dammit!

Also, to clarify my point on Zao, it seems like his argument for why we can't tell Moon the truth about what Ulyssian is, is based around the same rationale for why he doesn't tell her who HE is. We've alread argued with him about that and whether or not it's justified. The reason his emotional context is relevant is because it may be causing him to be somewhat less than objective.
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Well, he hasn't told her yet, and it doesn't seem like he intends to. You don't know either, so you can't really use that argument with him...

Also, part of his argument for not telling Moon was that she was not proof against Sidereal manipulation, that a determined Sidereal could get the truth from her, but OOC as far as we're aware the biggest Sidereal threat to us already knows everything she could get out of Moon. Granted there's still Elder Dynasts to worry about, but those are marginally more straightforward than Sidereals... I think.
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You guys don't know about that plan; even Ivory objected to Syn's plan but was forced to fall in line with that Charm that makes people do their duty. Ivory may not even know what, if anything, Syn intends to do with Moon; would she really have helped Ulyssian out in the last quest if it meant that fate for Moon? She would have just arranged for Moon to fall in love with Flame instead, or at least tried. And if she doesn't know what Syn intends, she may think that Moon is at least safe from Syn, if not safe from all of Zao's other enemies.
 
[X] He's Right

It just feels like we're valuing ulyssian's desire for his friend over moon's wellbeing if we choose otherwise.

If the truth about us ever comes out, her believing us to be a dragonblooded could be the difference in whether she gets an execution. While making it more likely to come about because her lack of capacity with deception will give people reason to think there's something there if they dig deeper.

With the plans we have, trying to keep moon close just seems cruel. Even if we make her a mistress that's still betraying her happily-ever-after fairy tail dream.

If we aren't committed to playing the dynastic game then we should tell moon the truth, pick up our friends, and go adventuring.

Otherwise, we should listen to Zao.
 
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