Even This Power Is Not Enough OOC Thread

[Terrabrand]

Hm, I watched Thor: Ragnarok last night, and I'm thinking of making a character sheet for one of these: Thor, Loki, Heimdall, Hela.

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I'll admit I have limited familiarity with Marvel's Thor stuff, but while of course I've already indicated back up characters is very much an option, I've actually been eyeballing Vanitas as like one of four characters extremely likely to get in as part of the initial batch, even if more submissions stream in as seems likely.

 

[UbeOne]

I've actually been eyeballing Vanitas as like one of four characters extremely likely to get in as part of the initial batch, even if more submissions stream in as seems likely.

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I'm curious as to what made Vanitas a likely entry.

 

[Sablonus]

Aha! I'm done travelling, and can now work on my submisison concepts!

...

Which.. Have been deleted..

 

[Estro]

Oh God, Adorjan. I'm not sure she's even playable, let alone a good choice given how she is pretty much a flighty, indecisive genocider.

 

[Genon]

@Terrabrand
Hypothetically, if I submitted a Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann human OC with a basic Gunmen, would that work?

EDIT: For context, in TTGL, humans and other creatures that can naturally reproduce have instinctual access to Spiral Power, which is basically the will to survive as a physical force that can be channelled. It's inherently linked to DNA, and specifically chirality, hence the "Spiral" theme. Spiral Power is ridiculously OP in its home universe. Spiral Power is effectively Determination as a force of nature, and in high enough quantities it can actively warp reality to accomplish what its user desires. Gunmen are mechas that are powered by the user's own Spiral Power, and thus amplify it to insane levels.

Feats that Spiral Power has made possible:
--> In sufficient quantities, it can hypothetically cause an event called a "Spiral Nemesis," which creates a black hole capable of absorbing and thus destroying an entire universe.
--> Created a mecha the size of a universe.
--> Brought back the dead.
--> Proximity to a Spiral user allowed people who can't use Spiral Power at all (such as Beastmen, an artificial species that can't reproduce and thus should never be able to use it) to channel it temporarily.
--> Allowed a human mecha pilot to continue fighting even after being impaled by another mecha's oversized spear.
--> I think it made one of the villains immortal for thousands of years, but I'm not sure.


Pretty much, if you have SHONEN DETERMINATION and you want something done, it'll do it for you. The only weakness is that it's tied to willpower, and if that willpower falters, you're fucked.

 

[Vozen]

@Terrabrand
Hypothetically, if I submitted a Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann human OC with a basic Gunmen, would that work?

EDIT: For context, in TTGL, humans and other creatures that can naturally reproduce have instinctual access to Spiral Power, which is basically the will to survive as a physical force that can be channelled. It's inherently linked to DNA, and specifically chirality, hence the "Spiral" theme. Spiral Power is ridiculously OP in its home universe. Spiral Power is effectively Determination as a force of nature, and in high enough quantities it can actively warp reality to accomplish what its user desires. Gunmen are mechas that are powered by the user's own Spiral Power, and thus amplify it to insane levels.

Feats that Spiral Power has made possible:
--> In sufficient quantities, it can hypothetically cause an event called a "Spiral Nemesis," which creates a black hole capable of absorbing and thus destroying an entire universe.
--> Created a mecha the size of a universe.
--> Brought back the dead.
--> Proximity to a Spiral user allowed people who can't use Spiral Power at all (such as Beastmen, an artificial species that can't reproduce and thus should never be able to use it) to channel it temporarily.
--> Allowed a human mecha pilot to continue fighting even after being impaled by another mecha's oversized spear.
--> I think it made one of the villains immortal for thousands of years, but I'm not sure.


Pretty much, if you have SHONEN DETERMINATION and you want something done, it'll do it for you. The only weakness is that it's tied to willpower, and if that willpower falters, you're fucked.

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...you know, in a wierd way, this power might actually be exactly what Kars needs for character growth.

Which brings me to my other idea. The major theme of Kars's story in this is growth. Both in terms of power and in terms of character. He's achieved his goal of conquering the sun and unlocking his full potential, the rest of his race is gone, and the person who he wants revenge on is out of his reach. With all that, what does he do now?

My thought is he's never really thought about it, becoming an Ultimate Lifeform has been his goal for tens of thousands of years and for the few hours after he became one he had another clear goal in front of him, revenge. After that his goal was trying to escape the hell he was in within space.

Now that luck has sprung him from that prison, what now? Sure, further growth in the face of far more powerful beings than him is a first step, but it's a less focused goal than getting the Red Stone, with no clear endgoal. Enter Spiral Power, an energy you need hot-blooded passion to unlock, while cold calculation has been Kars M.O. for his whole life.

I'm not promising that all this shaking up of everything in his life will lead to a redemption arc, but it's pretty much a guaranty that Kars won't be the same by the end of this.

 

[Terrabrand]

I'm curious as to what made Vanitas a likely entry.

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Honestly? It's primarily the fact that I expect interesting dynamics between him and Kushinata, who is the single most likely to get in, straight up, right now.

@Terrabrand
Hypothetically, if I submitted a Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann human OC with a basic Gunmen, would that work?

EDIT: For context, in TTGL, humans and other creatures that can naturally reproduce have instinctual access to Spiral Power, which is basically the will to survive as a physical force that can be channelled. It's inherently linked to DNA, and specifically chirality, hence the "Spiral" theme. Spiral Power is ridiculously OP in its home universe. Spiral Power is effectively Determination as a force of nature, and in high enough quantities it can actively warp reality to accomplish what its user desires. Gunmen are mechas that are powered by the user's own Spiral Power, and thus amplify it to insane levels.

Feats that Spiral Power has made possible:
--> In sufficient quantities, it can hypothetically cause an event called a "Spiral Nemesis," which creates a black hole capable of absorbing and thus destroying an entire universe.
--> Created a mecha the size of a universe.
--> Brought back the dead.
--> Proximity to a Spiral user allowed people who can't use Spiral Power at all (such as Beastmen, an artificial species that can't reproduce and thus should never be able to use it) to channel it temporarily.
--> Allowed a human mecha pilot to continue fighting even after being impaled by another mecha's oversized spear.
--> I think it made one of the villains immortal for thousands of years, but I'm not sure.


Pretty much, if you have SHONEN DETERMINATION and you want something done, it'll do it for you. The only weakness is that it's tied to willpower, and if that willpower falters, you're fucked.

Click to shrink...

Eh... I'm somewhat uncertain about the sense of allowing 'anything, but only if the player wants it hard enough' into a multiplayer narrative game. There's a burden placed that it's basically arbitrary what they can and cannot do- normally, when engaging in the concept of Willpower Gets Things Done, I treat it as an inherently... Limited is probably a good word... resource- that is, consider how Luke works over in Days of Future Past; he has a long list of things he can do with his psychic abilities, and no physical limits to stop him from multitasking...

But for every thing he is doing at once he's that bit further stretched thin.

Meanwhile, the kind of Shonen Willpower effect you are taking about is implicitly an infinitely scaling pool- if the character cares really, really hard about the issue, their power level goes up!

So I'm uncertain, because I don't actually find it per se unacceptable on base principles but it also requires a lot of ruling on eg 'does the character objectively have enough subjective wanting to get X Hard Task accomplished?' on a case by case basis. With most of the characters thus far, I can go and rule once on say if they hit hard enough with X attack to hurt Y foe, and if my ruling is no, they can't say 'I try again, but wanting it more!' to thus possibly succeed- or if they can, it's by releasing a limiter or taking a risk or otherwise something that makes it not 'the same thing but better'.

And, indeed, Shonen Determination loves to fail one or more times before being determined enough to, this time, succeed.

 

[Mina]

Where are things falling on the souls/no-souls question? I recognize the annoyance of an army building power to a certain extent, but if a reconstituted Death Vigil would be a no go I'd like to get another application in.

 

[Genon]

...you know, in a wierd way, this power might actually be exactly what Kars needs for character growth.

Which brings me to my other idea. The major theme of Kars's story in this is growth. Both in terms of power and in terms of character. He's achieved his goal of conquering the sun and unlocking his full potential, the rest of his race is gone, and the person who he wants revenge on is out of his reach. With all that, what does he do now?

My thought is he's never really thought about it, becoming an Ultimate Lifeform has been his goal for tens of thousands of years and for the few hours after he became one he had another clear goal in front of him, revenge. After that his goal was trying to escape the hell he was in within space.

Now that luck has sprung him from that prison, what now? Sure, further growth in the face of far more powerful beings than him is a first step, but it's a less focused goal than getting the Red Stone, with no clear endgoal. Enter Spiral Power, an energy you need hot-blooded passion to unlock, while cold calculation has been Kars M.O. for his whole life.

I'm not promising that all this shaking up of everything in his life will lead to a redemption arc, but it's pretty much a guaranty that Kars won't be the same by the end of this.

Click to shrink...

...To be perfectly honest, the OC I was thinking of tends to be...actually a lot more sane and rational than the core cast of the show, though this may be because of the way I roleplay in general. Sure, Spiral Power is basically SCREAMY SHONEN WILLPOWER AWESOMENESS incarnate, and defying logic and possibility is the show's schtick, but in my interpretation, that doesn't mean that the person who uses it has to rely on Spiral Power over their own intellect and sanity.

What I mean is that there's a difference between using such a power to get yourself out of a situation that you would have to have been completely insane to get yourself into in the first place (like everything Kamina does ever), and using that passion to ensure success after you've already planned things out enough that using it won't have unintended consequences or fail outright (like my OC).

So the effect might be a mitigated depending on what happens.

Honestly? It's primarily the fact that I expect interesting dynamics between him and Kushinata, who is the single most likely to get in, straight up, right now.


Eh... I'm somewhat uncertain about the sense of allowing 'anything, but only if the player wants it hard enough' into a multiplayer narrative game. There's a burden placed that it's basically arbitrary what they can and cannot do- normally, when engaging in the concept of Willpower Gets Things Done, I treat it as an inherently... Limited is probably a good word... resource- that is, consider how Luke works over in Days of Future Past; he has a long list of things he can do with his psychic abilities, and no physical limits to stop him from multitasking...

But for every thing he is doing at once he's that bit further stretched thin.

Meanwhile, the kind of Shonen Willpower effect you are taking about is implicitly an infinitely scaling pool- if the character cares really, really hard about the issue, their power level goes up!

So I'm uncertain, because I don't actually find it per se unacceptable on base principles but it also requires a lot of ruling on eg 'does the character objectively have enough subjective wanting to get X Hard Task accomplished?' on a case by case basis. With most of the characters thus far, I can go and rule once on say if they hit hard enough with X attack to hurt Y foe, and if my ruling is no, they can't say 'I try again, but wanting it more!' to thus possibly succeed- or if they can, it's by releasing a limiter or taking a risk or otherwise something that makes it not 'the same thing but better'.

And, indeed, Shonen Determination loves to fail one or more times before being determined enough to, this time, succeed.

Click to shrink...

I see. The idea of having my character be relevant at all dependent on GM fiat for that particular action seems...impractical from a fun standpoint. Sure, when it succeeds, it'll be awesome, but considering the biggatons involved, and that without Spiral Power TTGL humans are just humans, with all the squishiness that implies, perhaps it wouldn't be the best option.

I could go with a Dragon Ball OC instead (maybe a human if I want to piss off Kars ), but if Superman is outclassed here, I'm not so sure how a Dragon Ball OC would fare. Would a demigod version of Vector from Days of Future Past fly, with an Authority over murder or skullduggery in general?

 

[The Fourth Monado]

I could go with a Dragon Ball OC instead (maybe a human if I want to piss off Kars ), but if Superman is outclassed here, I'm not so sure how a Dragon Ball OC would fare. Would a demigod version of Vector from Days of Future Past fly, with an Authority over murder or skullduggery in general?

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But playing Endgame Vector when you don't know the endgame may cause problems

(Also Agatha would be dead if she had Authority)

 

[Genon]

But playing Endgame Vector when you don't know the endgame may cause problems

(Also Agatha would be dead if she had Authority)

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You and I both know that death is cheap in Dragon Ball, even for gods. When King Kai died due to Cell blowing himself up a few feet away from him, do you know what happened? The other gods held a tournament in his honor, and King Kai watched it, in all his halo-wearing glory, without any problems. Furthermore, isn't he technically dead throughout Battle of Gods? That doesn't stop him from living (heh) on his tiny planet and trying to hide Goku from Beerus.

Hell, even the wiki says this:

Being dead does not seem to hamper King Kai's affairs, except that it is the source of great embarrassment for him to his fellow Kais (although he was extremely perturbed at Goku for sacrificing someone as holy as he was for a measly insignificant planet like Earth).

Source: King Kai

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Yes, Agatha would have to die to ascend in the roleplay's setting, but I don't think Time Patrollers are guaranteed immortality in any event, and the life-extension technologies of her home timeline would presumably only go so far.

And besides, it's not like this roleplay is actually part of DoFP's canon. This game's plot would only canonically happen if you say so.

 

[Terrabrand]

Where are things falling on the souls/no-souls question? I recognize the annoyance of an army building power to a certain extent, but if a reconstituted Death Vigil would be a no go I'd like to get another application in.

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Welll... The thing is, the War of Dragons Canon Timeline leads into a relatively traditional fantasy Multiverse.

Terrabrand, the Ordainer (yes this is where my screenname comes from) is the winner canonically. Thing is, though, that the War is divided into several planes- Fire, Water, Wind, Wood, Metal... And Spirit. (Dragons battle in their own plane first before ascending to The Throne and possibly battling other plane Dragons there. Ruling The Throne uncontested gives them the ability to alter the Multiverse to a greater degree than their own Dragon powers do.)

Terrabrand is a Spirit Dragon. Spirit Plane creatures are nothing but Souls. Every other plane is naturally soulless. In his victory, Terrabrand created a recognizable system of souls as we would, er, recognize it.

Prior to that, soul targeting meant 'would affect the substance of the Spirit Plane', in short.

And Maldurion, a Fire Plane Dragon with different motives, would not create the same system, leaving the Spirit Plane much like the others. So, there'd be an entire plane of living soul dudes... and everyone else is just soulless.

I see. The idea of having my character be relevant at all dependent on GM fiat for that particular action seems...impractical from a fun standpoint. Sure, when it succeeds, it'll be awesome, but considering the biggatons involved, and that without Spiral Power TTGL humans are just humans, with all the squishiness that implies, perhaps it wouldn't be the best option.

I could go with a Dragon Ball OC instead (maybe a human if I want to piss off Kars ), but if Superman is outclassed here, I'm not so sure how a Dragon Ball OC would fare. Would a demigod version of Vector from Days of Future Past fly, with an Authority over murder or skullduggery in general?

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I'm not so clear how Authority works in general, to be honest, but I'm not aware of a specific reason it'd be a problem aside arguably what Monado raised.

 

[Genon]

I'm not so clear how Authority works in general, to be honest, but I'm not aware of a specific reason it'd be a problem aside arguably what Monado raised.

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If you want more information on the subject before making a decision, here's DoFP's official lore post explaining Authority.

 

[Dust and echoes]

Kushinata, who is the single most likely to get in, straight up, right now.

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Gah! Zoss' position as most likely to get in has been usurped!

6 billion curses!

*shakes fist good-naturedly*

 

[Terrabrand]

If you want more information on the subject before making a decision, here's DoFP's official lore post explaining Authority.

Click to shrink...

Gonna be honest, I've already read that and it's pretty unclear, in terms of relative boosts and what kind of limits the reality warping has, but most particularly doesn't really answer what eg an Authority over Murder as you suggest would entail. Technically, murder is unlawful killing, which is among other points meaningless in lawless conditions, but it usually gets used to mean 'the killing of a fellow human' or in most fantasy settings 'the killing of a fellow sentient', which winds up being an important question in terms of eg are their certain kinds of enemies that you can't apply it to the attempt to kill.

Like, War of Dragons Gods have an arguably similar concept I call Dominion, but that's a sliding scale; a War of Dragons setting God has omnipotence in the sense they can do anything with the application of enough Divine Energy, which can be summarized as a mana pool, but the cost for a given effect depends on how close it is to their Dominion. A god of Fire can create, alter, and destroy fire for very little effort but bears much harsher costs to directly affect stone or metal or the like. Heat is close to his or her Dominion, so the cost for altering temperature is low but not as low as working with fire itself, and so on.

Gah! Zoss' position as most likely to get in has been usurped!

6 billion curses!

*shakes fist good-naturedly*

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Technically, I think I said he was one of the most likely- the top three right now are Kushinata, Kars, and Zoss, with other characters competing with each other mostly based on how interestingly I expect them to play off the existing top candidates.

Of course, that can continue to change; Kars is, after all, the second most recent threadmark.

 

[Mina]

Prior to that, soul targeting meant 'would affect the substance of the Spirit Plane', in short.

And Maldurion, a Fire Plane Dragon with different motives, would not create the same system, leaving the Spirit Plane much like the others. So, there'd be an entire plane of living soul dudes... and everyone else is just soulless.

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So, in a round about way...don't rely on a large part of her arsenal and make something new that is cosmology agnostic.

This can still be arranged I suppose.

 

[Vozen]

Technically, I think I said he was one of the most likely- the top three right now are Kushinata, Kars, and Zoss, with other characters competing with each other mostly based on how interestingly I expect them to play off the existing top candidates.

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...huh...how to react to that...



...I am rather happy about this.

 

[Genon]

Gonna be honest, I've already read that and it's pretty unclear, in terms of relative boosts and what kind of limits the reality warping has, but most particularly doesn't really answer what eg an Authority over Murder as you suggest would entail. Technically, murder is unlawful killing, which is among other points meaningless in lawless conditions, but it usually gets used to mean 'the killing of a fellow human' or in most fantasy settings 'the killing of a fellow sentient', which winds up being an important question in terms of eg are their certain kinds of enemies that you can't apply it to the attempt to kill.

Like, War of Dragons Gods have an arguably similar concept I call Dominion, but that's a sliding scale; a War of Dragons setting God has omnipotence in the sense they can do anything with the application of enough Divine Energy, which can be summarized as a mana pool, but the cost for a given effect depends on how close it is to their Dominion. A god of Fire can create, alter, and destroy fire for very little effort but bears much harsher costs to directly affect stone or metal or the like. Heat is close to his or her Dominion, so the cost for altering temperature is low but not as low as working with fire itself, and so on.

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To be honest, I think @The Fourth Monado should be the one to answer your concerns about Authority, since it's his setting.

 

[Kensai]

Well, I hope it sticks, anyway. Kushinata's an old favourite of mine, and it's been a good ten years since I first wrote her up. She actually predates SV by quite a lot.

 

[Terrabrand]

Well, I hope it sticks, anyway. Kushinata's an old favourite of mine, and it's been a good ten years since I first wrote her up. She actually predates SV by quite a lot.

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Honestly, it'd practically require eight new submissions that all wowed me to actually remove her from the running as likely to be in the first wave, and I don't really expect to see eight new submissions of that quality in the two to three days I plan to wait before settling the initial list.

 

[Mina]

Hmm, Frau Totenkinder could be interesting, and unlike souls there are usually children aplenty...

 

[Theaxofwar]

I think I should submit something else, as I feel like my current submission isn't that good. Hmm...

 

[Borrowing]

would it be possible for me to submit a weak character then with their power increase it by a ridiculous amount?

 

[Estro]

I really like Auntie Sass Sword but now I'm worried she's not gonna get in.

 

[Terrabrand]

would it be possible for me to submit a weak character then with their power increase it by a ridiculous amount?

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I don't understand the question.

I really like Auntie Sass Sword but now I'm worried she's not gonna get in.

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She's fairly likely to get in. Currently. That is to say, my draft of picks based on the current selection includes her. This may change as further submissions come in.