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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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George said:
A possibility I'm not willing to credit with a vote. Further, I don't think getting the Truth quickly is worth spending our resources that unwisely. I'm willing to spend one extra BP by getting it with 5 MM, but two extra is too much for me, especially when you add in delaying the Tomb Cerebration to next year; I think using Cerebration on the Heroine or Kong Zang is unnecessary this year but will become quite valuable once the Heroine awakens and as we get closer to Kong Zang checking in. Even beyond that increasing value calculation, we may need further Cerebrations to make use of what we find in the Tomb and I want to leave that possibility open.
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Getting Truth soon as possible is a boon due to it FINALLY selecting a Dao because people are intentionally crippling us by waiting until we get Truth before selecting the perfect Dao for Nameless.

The Tomb is a red herring at best. At least, in terms of powering up. It's probably just a lore location that does no good in actually helping us against Zang Kong.

The Heroine currently, for all intents and purposes, is on our side. At least, until after the fall of Zang Kong. And considering we can make a few thousand year cease fire we can fully exploit the tomb then.
 
Is there anything stopping Nameless from crafting an Elvegekere's Protector Golem that can draw multiple Elvegekere's Protector diagrams? (Which can in turn draw more...) An exponentially growing force of loyal servants would be handy.
 
Rihaku said:
*If the Elves do have some way of contacting your previous world, you could benefit tremendously from gathering the Daoist literature of your civilization. The Empire has something like the Daodejing but its Daoist scholasticism has diverged from Earth's. Maybe the brightest minds of your former world could assist in forming your Dao... ?
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I think I just realized something funny.
Since Nameless will be contacting Earth... can he contact us?
Just summoning a server with a computer to read it- this quest saved on it, amongst other things (Summoning books? No. That's not space-efficient.).
Nameless realizes the true nature of his quest against the Heroine and Zang Kong.
And so forms a new Dao: WAY OF ENDLESS BUILD VOTES
After all, BP is acquired by players at a somewhat steady rate. The higher the ratio of PlayerTime:NamelessTime, the more BP he can acquire in time left.
Time burns, always. But Build Vote Time is like burning empty calories for Nameless.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Why do you think that? I don't think I've seen this argument before. Are we missing out on something by upgrading it earlier?
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Yes, a higher Stage means a stronger Artifact. Plus, if it spawns level appropriate Monsters then the most efficient farming will be at a higher combat power anyway.
Sigil said:
Is there anything stopping Nameless from crafting an Elvegekere's Protector Golem that can draw multiple Elvegekere's Protector diagrams? (Which can in turn draw more...) An exponentially growing force of loyal servants would be handy.
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Yes, I presume they can't learn the Diagram. It requires you to actually understand the spell so they would need proper consciousness. It doesn't seem wholly beyond the remit of Artifacts to me, but we'd likely have to train each of them up from scratch and actual talent at the Diagram rather than mere capability is probably too much to ask.
 
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George said:
Yes, a higher Stage means a stronger Artifact. Plus, if it spawns level appropriate Monsters then the most efficient farming will be at a higher combat power anyway.
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Neither of those hold up - the Vault is a spell not an Artifact, and the fact that it'll be better when we're stronger doesn't really mean anything because taking it now means we also have it later.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Neither of those hold up - the Vault is a spell not an Artifact, and the fact that it'll be better when we're stronger doesn't really mean anything because taking it now means we also have it later.
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We're going to enhance the spell with an Artifact - that's how it spawns Monsters. It being better when we're stronger means we aren't missing that much by not having it now, particularly since it takes time to farm, we need to finish up with various stuff outside our Vault, and many configurations have low Accessibility which means we'd only rarely be able to enter and exit.
 
I'm not sure, but I guess, purely hypothetical, that this is what an EFB Vault does:

1. Boost caps even more.
2. Infinite Vaults.
3. More 'Limits' on vaults waived and removed.

Essentially we'd get awesomesauce vaults for every possible occasion or purpose. Any realm we desire, anything at all. Not merely a single realm, but a collection of them; The power of true lordship. It's an upgrade in the style of Alwan's Crown of Tragedy.

I might be wrong, but I think this is in line with what an EFB could give us.
 
Shard said:
I'm not sure, but I guess, purely hypothetical, that this is what an EFB Vault does:

1. Boost caps even more.
2. Infinite Vaults.
3. More 'Limits' on vaults waived and removed.

Essentially we'd get awesomesauce vaults for every possible occasion or purpose. Any realm we desire, anything at all. Not merely a single realm, but a collection of them; The power of true lordship. It's an upgrade in the style of Alwan's Crown of Tragedy.

I might be wrong, but I think this is in line with what an EFB could give us.
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So if we were able to integrate a vault like that into our dao, it would be an end run around the constraints of some daos.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Wait, what? No they're not - the Netherine dungeon is, definitely?

EDIT: Well, almost definitely. It's full of the stuff that Cultivation was originally cobbled together out of, after all - a big part of why we'd like to go is to see how exactly that came about, and whether we can improve upon it. Understanding Cultivation better will certainly lead to understanding the point and function of Daos better.

Also, it gets us more MMs in the long run, since the Elves will still be there after but we might outlevel the only remaining dungeon dangerous enough to work.
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According to Rihaku Elves are the option to go for if we want a better Dao. I would have thought tomb as well but apparently not.
 
LordOfMurder said:
According to Rihaku Elves are the option to go for if we want a better Dao. I would have thought tomb as well but apparently not.
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Huh.

I also just saw that he mentioned going EFB on picking a Dao - is that separate to Dao Cleaving? Because I did not realise that, and am changing my vote because of it.

@Rihaku when you talk about going EFB on picking a Dao, is that a separate thing to the Dao Cleaving Stage? Because I don't think that was clear, and a lot of people who would gladly save up to EFB it probably aren't, because we thought it would unbalance PK progression.

[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh
 
You won't know until you get to the decision. Beyond Points aren't IC, after all!

LordOfMurder said:
According to Rihaku Elves are the option to go for if we want a better Dao. I would have thought tomb as well but apparently not.
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The Tomb can grant Cultivation speed multipliers but a Dao is personal. The only advantage to selecting a Dao would be more life experience or more knowledge of theoretical Daoism.
 
Time to hope for Devil Advocacy from Rihaku!

Though I think most of the points have already been raised anyway, and the third-runner ups are way too far behind.
 
You guys have around 4.2 Beyond Points and 1 Mastermind Point. It might actually behoove you to go somewhere with fewer Beyond Point spending opportunities until you're closer to 10 BP, then you can make an informed decision about whether you'd like to buy an EFB Dao or something else.
 
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