ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
[X] Expand the presence of the Dynatoi at court.
[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
[X] Plan Rotate
[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
[X] Plan Rotate
Elysian Odyssey (EU4 Quest - Byzantium in the New World)
- Thread starter Sayle
- Start date
- Location
- canada
ok fair point I used enemies when I should have used the term Rivals instead. Still true though.
I count our silver income as dead so long as we are below a net of 40 per year AKA where we can sustainably save for a few turns and expect to build a major project. and ya if we build up our military as much as we should over the next bit then yes I do think we will be below 40 per year for awhile.
I am in the camp of Military+ major projects are worth more than a tiny amount of monarch points. Though you are correct that they increase our income more than silver can.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Emporoi Court Mk 2
[X] Plan Emporoi Court Mk 2
-[X] Expand the presence of the Emporoi at court.
-[X] Expand the Imperial Court (-61 Silver)
-[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
-[X] Expand the Militia (10 Silver/-2 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/4]
-[X] The Urbanisation of Ivos: 110 Administrative Points (3->5)
-[X] Expand Tobacco Plantations in Alouion: 220 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[X] The Grand Cothon of Ivos (510 Silver)
Let's assume, very generously, that about one in 5 Tuscarora (about every other able bodied man) can be shaken loose to go fight without causing issues at home. That's a grand total of 12k natives - an impressive army, but one virtually identical to the 11.5k troops that we have currently.
Less actually, since every current plan involves adding another thousand militia and approximately half of our army is made up of professional soldiers rather than part-time militia.
We need approximately zero further military buildup to be able to match up evenly against the military might of our largest rivals (the Tuscarora/Monongahela). Having a military big enough to be able to decisively beat any one of our rivals or take on multiple smaller groups at once is nice, but it's also not something time critical seeing as how we've never had any tensions with a major rival nor have any smaller groups made alliances or defensive pacts at this time.
So yeah - we can absolutely take some money away from military expansion to grow our economy.
-[X] Expand the presence of the Emporoi at court.
-[X] Expand the Imperial Court (-61 Silver)
-[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
-[X] Expand the Militia (10 Silver/-2 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/4]
-[X] The Urbanisation of Ivos: 110 Administrative Points (3->5)
-[X] Expand Tobacco Plantations in Alouion: 220 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[X] The Grand Cothon of Ivos (510 Silver)
It is absolutely not true.
40 thousand people as of 25 years ago. Even with generous growth estimates since then to account for their expansion they cannot possibly have more than 60 thousand people today.
Let's assume, very generously, that about one in 5 Tuscarora (about every other able bodied man) can be shaken loose to go fight without causing issues at home. That's a grand total of 12k natives - an impressive army, but one virtually identical to the 11.5k troops that we have currently.
Less actually, since every current plan involves adding another thousand militia and approximately half of our army is made up of professional soldiers rather than part-time militia.
We need approximately zero further military buildup to be able to match up evenly against the military might of our largest rivals (the Tuscarora/Monongahela). Having a military big enough to be able to decisively beat any one of our rivals or take on multiple smaller groups at once is nice, but it's also not something time critical seeing as how we've never had any tensions with a major rival nor have any smaller groups made alliances or defensive pacts at this time.
So yeah - we can absolutely take some money away from military expansion to grow our economy.
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[X] Plan Emporoi Court Mk 2
Damnit we need to get in on the Caribbean action before the Portugese snatch up all the best bits, hopefully the trade boosters will keep them happy mostly coming to us for now and we can reinvest the profits into expansion.
Damnit we need to get in on the Caribbean action before the Portugese snatch up all the best bits, hopefully the trade boosters will keep them happy mostly coming to us for now and we can reinvest the profits into expansion.
- Location
- canada
oh I agree individually neither of our rivals are more than a moderate threat barring them gaining a tactical genius (which while possible is unlikely) but that is mostly thanks to our tech advantage.
No my real worry is our rivals banding together.
Also you forget that the Potawatomi by themselves (though they did use to be 2 separate groups) fielded well over 7,000 troops against us a few decades ago.
If they can do that then the other nations that are far larger than them can probably field larger armies than that.
EDIT: yes they were not professional troops and the other nations probs can't do more than 6-7,000 professional troops as well. But sometimes numbers are all that matter and I am sure that some of the surrounding nations can field at least 15,000 troops in a pinch all things considered. Also your not including the population of the lesser tribes they subjugated to their rule in the people to our south.
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- Location
- Norway
I think it would be very hard to hold the Caribbean. We could do a little flag-planting, sure, but if England or France or Morocco or Mali shows up with a war fleet and wants our clay, we're probably better off defending the continent than the Caribbean.
- Location
- canada
agreed the only island that we could possibly hold is Cuba. and that only thanks to its size and proximity to Florida.
- Location
- Tarn-Vedra
[X] Plan Emporoi Court Mk 2
- Location
- US
[X] Expand the presence of the Dynatoi at court.
[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
[X] Plan Rotate
I don't want to expand the court just yet
[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
[X] Plan Rotate
I don't want to expand the court just yet
Arakhor
Devious Daemon
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Expand the presence of the Dynatoi at court
[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces
[X] Expand the Imperial Court (-61 Silver)
[X] Plan Rotate
If we keep offending the Dynatoi, it won't be power to the people, but instead power away from the Palaiologoi.
[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces
[X] Expand the Imperial Court (-61 Silver)
[X] Plan Rotate
If we keep offending the Dynatoi, it won't be power to the people, but instead power away from the Palaiologoi.
The thought of having multiple rivals band together to defeat you is an age-old question for nations. Historically, attempting to build up a strong enough military to fight them all off at once has proven much, much less successful then presenting reasons for rivals not to band together or gaining allies of your own - which are usually done by displaying growth and prosperity and not seeming like a massive threat by building up enormous armies.
And no, I'm not forgetting anything. Groups like the Lenape or the Potawatomi have been estimated at roughly half the size of that of the Tuscarora - the Potawatomi having been able to field slightly more than half the troops the Tuscarora might be able to makes intuitive sense. My estimate does take those subjugated peoples into account - I specifically mentioned shifting the population estimate up to account for said expansion.
One of the nearby tribes is about to get attacked and one of the others is on the way to being converted and we had peace with most of the rest since we landed here.
There are also military tech we can adopt now we have established ourselves like building a cannon foundry. Cannons were used in at least one failed attack on Constantinople prior to the start date of the quest and the natives has never faced cannons before so even one or two can reduce the palisade protecting one of their towns in a war.
There are also other advances of this time like the use of water mills for paper making or the blast furnace improving metalworking that we might not have taken on the ship but can import from Europe.
The natives will have a much harder time importing and adopting these advances so i expect us to have a more modern army even before the rise of gunpowder weapons.
- Location
- Reno
[ ] Plan Emporoi Court Mk 2
-[ ] Expand the presence of the Emporoi at court.
-[ ] Expand the Imperial Court (-61 Silver)
-[ ] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
-[ ] Expand the Militia (10 Silver/-2 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/4]
-[ ] The Urbanisation of Ivos: 110 Administrative Points (3->5)
-[ ] Expand Tobacco Plantations in Alouion: 220 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[ ] The Grand Cothon of Ivos (510 Silver)
I'd already thought we delayed the Court expansion for too long several turns ago. This turn proves that. Even one or two extra monarch points per turn is extremely valuable, even on GOOD leaders, let alone bad ones, like the one we got now. Even in actual EU4, every single Monarch point you can get makes a HUGE difference.
-[ ] Expand the presence of the Emporoi at court.
-[ ] Expand the Imperial Court (-61 Silver)
-[ ] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
-[ ] Expand the Militia (10 Silver/-2 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/4]
-[ ] The Urbanisation of Ivos: 110 Administrative Points (3->5)
-[ ] Expand Tobacco Plantations in Alouion: 220 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[ ] The Grand Cothon of Ivos (510 Silver)
I'd already thought we delayed the Court expansion for too long several turns ago. This turn proves that. Even one or two extra monarch points per turn is extremely valuable, even on GOOD leaders, let alone bad ones, like the one we got now. Even in actual EU4, every single Monarch point you can get makes a HUGE difference.
[X] Plan Emporoi Court Mk 2
Whenever its possible to do so without immediate retaliation, a wise ruler always grants power to the weak and takes it from the strong.
The only circumstances where you give power to the strong is if you could not survive refusing.
Concentrating power is risky long term and cannot be walked back.
Whenever its possible to do so without immediate retaliation, a wise ruler always grants power to the weak and takes it from the strong.
The only circumstances where you give power to the strong is if you could not survive refusing.
Concentrating power is risky long term and cannot be walked back.
- Location
- canada
We are definitely more modern there is no question about that.
Displaying growth and prosperity seems more like it would inspire envy and desire to pillage it all to me....... at least unless you have a military capable of defending it.
- Location
- Reno
Which we do as is. At that point you just have to make it more costly to attack than Trade. We are far past that point when it comes to our neighbors, and can keep that up with minimal military expansion. We won't even need that much more to repel the Eurps when they come knocking either, as they can only realistically throw so much at us without letting their Home rivals fuck them.
- Location
- Not London
I agree with this. But for another reason. In the long run, we'll definitely screw over the nobles. Give them something that isn't so important now..
[X] Expand the presence of the Dynatoi at court.
[X] March north and attack the Lenape forces.
[X] Plan Rotate
