I mean Empress Theodora was basically working at brothel and it didn't cause civil war when she married Justinian, I doubt this marriage will cause it.
On second hand depressed Emperor that possibly turns to Alcohol , or worse infidelity by taking in Helene as concubine/lover (a woman explicitly said to be smart and from wealthy merchant family) could probably cause more damage, like succession crisis if they have children for example.
Obviously both sides arguing for their side will give the best possible outcomes for their position and the worst for the other sides so instead I will give a full reading of best and worst outcomes of both positions. Or at least as close as I can get.
Position A: Marrying the person he loves.
Possible Best case scenario: because he is in love with his wife he gains a boost to his stats or his wife increases his stats and we get more admin/diplo points each turn from it and are more powerful for it.
Possible worst case scenario: the Dynatoi are very angry and displeased with this decision and try to assassinate our wife and succeed but we die in the crossfire leaving no heir behind the empire gets into a civil war as a result.
Conclusion: Could be risky but the possible rewards could be pretty good too.
Position B: following the will of the Dynatoi
Possible best case scenario: The Dynatoi loyalty increases to us giving us more leeway with peeving them off in the future.
Possible worst case scenario: Our emperor gets depressed and dies after a few turns of not taking care of himself leaving behind only a child as heir causing major court intrigue over who gets to be regent for them.
Conclusion: also risky but slightly less risky. On the other hand rewards are less valuable here too.........
Analysis: both options are not terrible one being riskier than the other but holding greater possible rewards and greater/more likely poor outcomes. So it comes down to are you a risk taker or a safety first person. Also which are you willing to go for in this situation.
I mean Empress Theodora was basically working at brothel and it didn't cause civil war when she married Justinian, I doubt this marriage will cause it.
Possible Best case scenario: because he is in love with his wife he gains a boost to his stats or his wife increases his stats and we get more admin/diplo points each turn from it and are more powerful for it.
I believe you are forgetting the fact that she is from rich merchant family, so best case scenario is this increase of Emperoi loyalty beside getting better traits.
Possible worst case scenario: the Dynatoi are very angry and displeased with this decision and try to assassinate our wife and succeed but we die in the crossfire leaving no heir behind the empire gets into a civil war as a result.
Kinda unlikely to happen, yes they dislike her, but to dislike her to the point of risking to lose everything ? I don't think so. Plus that scenario requires things so bad that Nobility decides to consider a coup against imperial family (because murdering the Emperor is exactly that, there's no crossfire in rising a sword against gods representative on earth) which is weary unlikely as things stand and would require more than commoner Empress.
Possible worst case scenario: Our emperor gets depressed and dies after a few turns of not taking care of himself leaving behind only a child as heir causing major court intrigue over who gets to be regent for them.
I believe you are forgetting the fact that she is from rich merchant family, so best case scenario is this increase of Emperoi loyalty beside getting better traits.
Kinda unlikely to happen, yes they dislike her, but to dislike her to the point of risking to lose everything ? I don't think so. Plus that scenario requires things so bad that Nobility decides to consider a coup against imperial family (because murdering the Emperor is exactly that, there's no crossfire in rising a sword against gods representative on earth) which is weary unlikely as things stand and would require more than commoner Empress.
its a possible scenario but I wanted to make a different one than the exact same thing. Plus I find it less likely for someone motivated by duty first to not leave behind at least a child heir. But ya this situation could also easily end up as a civil war if poorly managed or we got bad luck.
The completion of the Hagia Theotoke is met with great rejoicing by the city, the grand basilica by far the largest and most ornate building in the capital. Though not yet the match of the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople it is still nonetheless impressive and as the wealth of Elysia improves no doubt it will be improved further. The completed church plays host to the marriage of Ioannes to Helene, a match which has captured the hearts of the common people with her humble origins and tales of love at first sight. The rapturous cheers outside as the ceremony begins are not matched by the forced congratulations and wedding gifts of the great families, who understandably see this union as both inappropriate and a lost opportunity to marry into the imperial line. Those feathers are unlikely to be unruffled during Ioannes' lifetime, and certainly not while Helene remains an ever-present reminder of the occasion.
Gain +1 stability.
The other major domestic event is the reform of the Codex Justianus. Although many of the laws set down by the ancient emperor have been superseded or amended, it is undeniable that it has remained a vital part of Elysian law and jurisprudence to this very day. The reforms have simplified the code and abolished many no-longer-relevant offenses, and making a fresh start will allow magistrates to more easily render their verdicts without mutually contradictory law to choose from. This simplification in everything from criminal justice to property law has made it a great deal harder to evade taxation via any number of abstruse loopholes, although it takes a certain organisation knack to make sure new settlements do not sneak themselves into eligibility for any number of exemptions.
Ioannes is a lawgiver. New settlements in his reign gain +1 tax/production.
The expansion of Elysia is always fraught with difficulty thanks to interactions with the natives, but the increasing numbers of faithful outside the Empire's borders have provided useful levers to manipulate the surrounding tribes. The diplomats and established embassies have allowed intensive deliberations and negotiations with the barbaroi regarding further Elysian settlement, and the Christianised peoples in the surrounding area have agreed to pay tribute to the Empire once a treaty is signed guaranteeing their integrity. The closer they are pulled into Elysia's orbit, the more concessions will need to be made, whether diplomatic or financial.
[ ] Sign an agreement to respect their stated territory and establish no settlements therein.
[ ] ...agreeing to defend them against any invasion.
[ ] ...and furthermore pledge to expand the Elysian road network into their territory.
Agreements with those who follow the faith aside, it is an inescapable reality that the country needs to continue expanding into the surrounding area. While there remains plenty of free land in the current territory of the Empire it takes time to exploit that capacity without rushing headlong into difficult problems like overcrowding and the development of slums at the periphery of existing cities. Thanks to the conquest of much of the Tuscaroran territory there are now plenty of options for further settlement inland, the borders populated with minor migratory tribes. Unfortunately the region of Rhogadia remains poorly developed and so a military campaign further to the south would be excessively challenging, which leaves the northern coastline as the most attractive option. The Pequot are, simply put, in the way.
[ ] Annex Pequot.
[ ] Expand towards the mountains.
In Europe some minor chaos has unfolded as a result of your discovery, although Portugal is weathering much of the criticism - their relationship with neighbouring Castille is unlikely to recover for quite some time. The scattered explorer ships of other nationalities that manage to make the coast are able to resupply in Ivos, but your agreements with the Portuguese prohibit any trade with them, and so they leave disappointed - though not, you expect, with entirely empty holds. Despite the Basileus and Infante pointing fingers at each other and insisting the other was behind the deception there has been no slackening of commerce between your nations, nor any diplomatic repercussions. Both of you need the other and are simply bowing to political realities, and Portugal has the Treaty of Atlapolis to soothe their pains. The wealth of Elysia will only increase and they are in prime position to reap the rewards.
Ioannes IX Palaiologos
By the grace of God and St Michael, Autocrat of the Hellenes.
1512 -
Administrative Skill: 4
Diplomatic Skill: 4
Development Projects
[ ] The Urbanisation of Pythagora: 100 Administrative Points (3->5)
[ ] The Urbanisation of Sydes: 100 Administrative Points (3->5)
[ ] Increase Stability: 212 Administrative Points (1->2)
[ ] Increase Urbanisation in Alouion: 260 Administrative Points (5->10)
[ ] Colonial Outposts: 360 Administrative Points
[ ] Improve Dockyard Supply in Ivos: 183 Diplomatic Points (7->10)
[ ] Expand Dye Production in Methenai: 220 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
[ ] Noble Titles for Foreign Barbaroi: 360 Diplomatic Points
Each Development Project gives development. Some regions are easier to develop than others!
Treasury Projects
[ ] Expand the Militia (10 Silver/-2 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/13]
[ ] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/19]
[ ] Import Portuguese Advances (100 Silver)
[ ] The Roads of Rhogadia (340 Silver)
[ ] The Christianization of Rhogadia (300 Silver)
[ ] Expand Vineyards in Odessos (425 Silver)
[ ] The Hippodrome of Nea Konstantinopolis (425 Silver)
[ ] Guardian Statues of Ivos (550 Silver)
[ ] Found an Alexandrian Library (850 Silver)
[ ] The Arsenal of Elysia (1000 Silver)
I think we definitely need to go all-in on the tribute system, and maybe even the big two ADM/DIP spends for even further colonization and integration. There's a whole lot of growing we should be doing, especially with Ioannes' bonus to newly founded settlements. The main problem is all that costs money which we're also perpetually short on, but I'm sure we can make it work.
I guess Colonial Outposts is our next idea and will help with expanding our colonists.
I'm unsure if we should allow the Barbaroi into the nobility. Obviously it's unsustainable in the long term if we continue to separate Citizens and Barbaroi. All must work together to expand the glory of Rome. But I'm weary of allowing conquered peoples to have too much influence in the government or take possible loyalty penelties from the estates.
I really don't want to take another big project after we took the codex last turn.
Increasing urbanisation and production might be a good focus.
Christianisation for the money option? We need more income...
The Pequot are currently not chiristian and are more or less surrounded.
Annexing them will lead to more money being used on christianisation.
Going into the mountains will be less profitable and we will be bordering new tribes.
On the other hand, we'll be founding new settlements, which in turn will be boosted by our Palailogos new trait: Ioannes is a lawgiver. New settlements in his reign gain +1 tax/production.
Reagrding the treaties, maybe everything? They will be annexed one way or another. Giving them a guarentee of not settling in their lands, as long as it's their land, will just hasten the process. We have no need to invade them, right?
I guess Colonial Outposts is our next idea and will help with expanding our colonists.
I'm unsure if we should allow the Barbaroi into the nobility. Obviously it's unsustainable in the long term if we continue to separate Citizens and Barbaroi. All must work together to expand the glory of Rome. But I'm weary of allowing conquered peoples to have too much influence in the government or take possible loyalty penelties from the estates.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. If the Barbaroi have a stake in this system then they are less likely to betray it and are willing to fight for it.
ok guys straight up since you all wanted plan shiny lets go all in on reaping its benefits.
[ ] ...and furthermore pledge to expand the Elysian road network into their territory.
then lets push towards silver to start building a great project every 1 or 2 turns and setting up an even stronger military for future conflicts.
[] Plan Income for major projects
-[] Increase Urbanisation in Alouion: 260 Administrative Points (5->10)
-[] The Urbanisation of Pythagora: 100 Administrative Points (3->5)
-[] Expand Dye Production in Methenai: 220 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[] The Christianization of Rhogadia (300 Silver)
-[] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/19] x2
The Urbanisations as they will leave us just enough admin points to get the Colonial outposts next turn while giving us tons of silver, Expand dye production because I don't want to peeve off the Dynatoi again so soon after doing it just now with the foreign titles, Christianization because it will get them more loyal to us and form 2 Allagia so our net income stays roughly 100 next turn while giving us more troops in case of our increasing influence and expansion peeving any natives off or the Tuscarora deciding to go all out on attacking us or making allies with their neighbor to attack us.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. If the Barbaroi have a stake in this system then they are less likely to betray it and are willing to fight for it.
I really don't want to take another big project after we took the codex last turn.
Increasing urbanisation and production might be a good focus.
Christianisation for the money option? We need more income...
The Pequot are currently not chiristian and are more or less surrounded.
Annexing them will lead to more money being used on christianisation.
Going into the mountains will be less profitable and we will be bordering new tribes.
On the other hand, we'll be founding new settlements, which in turn will be boosted by our Palailogos new trait: Ioannes is a lawgiver. New settlements in his reign gain +1 tax/production.
Reagrding the treaties, maybe everything? They will be annexed one way or another. Giving them a guarentee of not settling in their lands, as long as it's their land, will just hasten the process. We have no need to invade them, right?
@Sayle would our lawgiver bonus effect settlements we gain from annexing the Pequot? or would it only effect purely new ones?
If @Sayle answers no then we should expand into the mountains without question though the military expansion will become more important.
However we defenitly need to start making 100 silver a year in net income no matter what. We have SO many great projects lined up. Plus I REALLY want that library for possible tech growth speed.
With regards to the treaty, we probably shouldn't take the middle option. Basically all of our coreligionists are sandwiched between us and the Haudenosaunee, and we just got warning that trying to launch major campaigns in a place without a good network isn't really feasible.
So while it may be a significant time and monetary commitment to build up roads in their territories (likely another 500 silver or so over 2 turns) if we're expecting to defend their territorial integrity against the biggest dog on the block (or Vinland, who are also big and strong) we'll really need every advantage we can get.
ones where we expand. Like the option to expand westwards towards the mountains. I don't know if conquering people counts as building new settles for the purpose of that ability but thats why I asked @Sayle about it.
Hmm... @Sayle quick question. Was the +1 Stability from completing the Hagia Theotoke or was it from our marriage to Helene being popular with the masses?
Everyone's pretty in favor of gaining Manhattan and that juicy, juicy port location. Plus annexing Pequot would allow us to better connect ourselves to the Christianized tribes nearby us and likely better integrate our road systems with theirs.
First number is current loyalty, as I understand it, and it ticks 5 points towards the second number each turn as estates forgive and forget past events. So we took a 20 point hit to loyalty here.
[ ] Improve Dockyard Supply in Ivos: 183 Diplomatic Points (7->10)
[ ] Expand Dye Production in Methenai: 220 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
[ ] Noble Titles for Foreign Barbaroi: 360 Diplomatic Points
Now seems like a really good time to get that Dye Production. For our money (Dye is the most valuable trade good we have), for planting our flags, and for giving the Dynatoi some time to recover before we tweak their noses again.
And with our new benefit of Patriarch Authority and high Stability, we have two positive modifiers to Christianizing barbarians in Rhogadia and I want to pay for that.
Everyone's pretty in favor of gaining Manhattan and that juicy, juicy port location. Plus annexing Pequot would allow us to better connect ourselves to the Christianized tribes nearby us and likely better integrate our road systems with theirs.
..... your joking right? you want to expand north of them right on the border of the biggest native power and the only one that currently surpasses us?
I sure as heck don't want that! the point of taking them out is the extra coastline+better road connections to our allies. That is all they provide.
Hmm... @Sayle quick question. Was the +1 Stability from completing the Hagia Theotoke or was it from our marriage to Helene being popular with the masses?
Can we assume that this Arsenal is a naval one, similar to the Venetian Arsenal?
It was from both. The arsenal is inspired by the Venetian Arsenal - good thing you took that Venetian expertise, because they wrote down how it all operated once it was clear going home wasn't an option.
The Pequot are literally surrounded by coreligionists of ours, and we are signing a treaty to respect the territorial borders of anybody who shares a religion with us and pays us tribute. There will be no expansion northwards after annexing the Pequot unless some third party invades and conquers either the Meskwaki or both the Mikmaq and the Mohegan, and even then we'd need to take the variant of the treaty that doesn't offer security guarantees to be able to seize land from said conquerors and keep it for ourselves.
So the point of annexing the Pequot is to grab the sweet sweet port they're sitting on and eliminate a possible thorn in our side that might end up creating a secondary front in future wars if we leave them be - not to secure a route for additional expansion.
[X] ...and furthermore pledge to expand the Elysian road network into their territory.
[X] Annex Pequot.
[X] Plan Northern Networking
-[X] Increase Urbanisation in Alouion: 260 Administrative Points (5->10)
-[X] The Urbanisation of Pythagora: 100 Administrative Points (3->5)
-[X] Expand Dye Production in Methenai: 220 Diplomatic Points (5->10)
-[X] The Christianization of Rhogadia (300 Silver)
-[X] Form an Allagia from the Militia (-4 Silver) [Repeatable] [0/19] x2
@san hasn't voted yet, so I'm gonna slap a fancier and more alliterative name on their plan - because I can.
It was from both. The arsenal is inspired by the Venetian Arsenal - good thing you took that Venetian expertise, because they wrote down how it all operated once it was clear going home wasn't an option.
Surprising, I'm glad that the option to marry Helene won, as I don't think any of us expected it to combo so well with the Hagia Theotoke opening, with many thinking the opposite would occur. Hopefully we can rebuild our relationship back up with the Dynatoi in the next three turns.
Oooh, I didn't simply expect that we'd get the plans for the entire Venetian Arsenal, we will certainly need it by the time the Europeans come running.
@Sayle Seeing as getting more technology from the Portuguese is a purchase option available, can you tell us what exactly we got as technologies from the last technology we purchased from Portugal? For example have we finally started outfitting our Allagia with firearms?
