XelianEmperor
Fragile. Handle with care
I think I agree with the others on how this quest strike the balance between mechanics and narrative
Please continue 🙏
Please continue 🙏
Elysian Odyssey (EU4 Quest - Byzantium in the New World)
- Thread starter Sayle
- Start date
I'm fine on how this quest was run, I don't mind the mechanics since I do play EU4 and like the map painting and the spreadsheets.
Thanks for this feedback in particular, that's a good one. Narratively speaking something like the Grand Cothon could signify a much larger naval presence and focus, particularly when the Caribbean becomes contested. Other wonders like the Hagia Theotoke could make it much more likely for natives to be interested in converting, for example, and there could become a time when the expanding complex starts becoming an issue in the city, especially if the patriarch is a strong force in politics.
I enjoyed reading this a lot, and would be happy to see it continue in the format it currently is if it continues.
I think the only thing I'd be worried about is project bloat. It hasn't really come up yet, but the players have about twice as many decisions to make every single turn as they did at the beginning. That still isn't a lot of decisions, but I assume as Elysia grows that number will only grow, which may be something to preempt.
I think the only thing I'd be worried about is project bloat. It hasn't really come up yet, but the players have about twice as many decisions to make every single turn as they did at the beginning. That still isn't a lot of decisions, but I assume as Elysia grows that number will only grow, which may be something to preempt.
Hm. There's merit to that. Going for state-sized decision making rather than province-sized works when the country is small, but as it becomes more complex it bloats back up again. As I see it there are two options there: either decentralise to nation-wide decisions, which feels like it strips a lot of agency, or engineer it so that you're effectively only making decisions for the newly integrated parts of the country and the parts that you've already dealt with essentially run themselves at that point. The issue is that time marches forward and you're suddenly faced with integrating new technologies and techniques and then you have to revisit what you already have.
If we're going with an obfuscation of precise numbers, it may be possible to transition away from a "have X, pay Y" to a "getting X, paying % of X" economic model. Instead of buying a road-building project for 200 gold (you have 1000 in the treasury), have 10% of the budget going towards road projects. It may take two turns for the unknown expense of the road-project to "complete" and give you your bonuses, but you don't have to articulate "build X in area Y with Z money". If you feel like a more urgent priority is organising the local producers into taxable and efficient guilds, then taking money away from the road budget might even create some political events.
Does that sound like a good idea, or do people have better-sounding ideas?
- Location
- in the trash
If the issue is agency, maybe instead of automatically abstracting lower level decision making, maybe make it so we have the option to develop government bureaucracy so we can do things more efficiently, hand over territories to vassals/subordinates to manage, etc? But the players have to make such investments/decisions rather than it automatically happening.
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Making it so that the players only have a direct control of the newly acquired land makes it quite unrealistic, after all, there's always some way to improve a province (as the QM pointed, for example, there's always new tech to integrate). A possible way to stop bloating from happening is to treat it as a mechanic thus forcing the players to decide what topics they want to delegate and how they delegate.
This way bloating could be solved by the government reforming itself, thus we could start as an absolute monarchy which has to solve every problem from the capital and evolve to a more decentralized form of goberment (such as local assemblies) or we could create a greater bureaucracy. This could also be used to represent a more dynamic society (say we create an empowered bureaucracy to build roads in already settled territory, the QM could use it narratively to talk about the rise in importance of petty nobility and rich merchants because they are the ones that fill the bureacrazy thus creating social tensions with the greater nobility that they are substituting and social change).
This way bloating could be solved by the government reforming itself, thus we could start as an absolute monarchy which has to solve every problem from the capital and evolve to a more decentralized form of goberment (such as local assemblies) or we could create a greater bureaucracy. This could also be used to represent a more dynamic society (say we create an empowered bureaucracy to build roads in already settled territory, the QM could use it narratively to talk about the rise in importance of petty nobility and rich merchants because they are the ones that fill the bureacrazy thus creating social tensions with the greater nobility that they are substituting and social change).
Having had a good think (and some time with the excel sheet), I've rough-drawn out an economic system.
Each ten years (or on the accession of a new monarch, whichever is sooner) you get to allocate a set budget for expenditures. You'll be able to see your income into the treasury to help decide this. If you have 120 gold per annum income, you can set 100 as a budget and bank 20 gold per year for emergencies and megaprojects.
The Office of the Megas Domestikos will manage the upkeep, levy, and training of your army. High budget means it can sustain a larger force-at-arms and an even higher budget lets them become increasingly professional. Naturally you'll be able to decide beforehand if you want a small and professional force, or a large one. I suspect you may swing from one to the other when Europe gets involved, given the size of their militaries. This will also be handling the maintenance of military fortresses and the like.
The Office of the Megas Doux is the same as above, just for your navy. As before, you'll be able to indicate if you want more light ships for trade duties or purpose-built warships.
The Office of the Mesazon is an interesting one in that it will determine the quality of advice your emperor will recieve through the usual avenues (patronage, a wider presence of the literati at court, lots of ceremonial positions, etc), and so will increase your monarch point generation. This includes fractional numbers, so you might have an effective advisor level of 1.2 rather than jumping from 1 to 2 in one big jump.
The Office of the Protovestiarios is the big infrastructure job. Roads, production, fortification, increased cash flow and trade.
So your decision making could look something like this:
Income: 120 Hyperpyra
Expenses: 80 Hyperpyra
Treasury: 50 Hyperpyra
Don't like those numbers? Adjust them at the next budget. But no department is going to be happy losing money and slashing the military budget to fund public works might have standards or the size of your army falling sharply. Of course if you keep a sound fiscal policy and a decent treasury surplus, you can probably weather any income reductions and keep the economy growing.
Any thoughts, objections, ideas for improvement?
Each ten years (or on the accession of a new monarch, whichever is sooner) you get to allocate a set budget for expenditures. You'll be able to see your income into the treasury to help decide this. If you have 120 gold per annum income, you can set 100 as a budget and bank 20 gold per year for emergencies and megaprojects.
The Office of the Megas Domestikos will manage the upkeep, levy, and training of your army. High budget means it can sustain a larger force-at-arms and an even higher budget lets them become increasingly professional. Naturally you'll be able to decide beforehand if you want a small and professional force, or a large one. I suspect you may swing from one to the other when Europe gets involved, given the size of their militaries. This will also be handling the maintenance of military fortresses and the like.
The Office of the Megas Doux is the same as above, just for your navy. As before, you'll be able to indicate if you want more light ships for trade duties or purpose-built warships.
The Office of the Mesazon is an interesting one in that it will determine the quality of advice your emperor will recieve through the usual avenues (patronage, a wider presence of the literati at court, lots of ceremonial positions, etc), and so will increase your monarch point generation. This includes fractional numbers, so you might have an effective advisor level of 1.2 rather than jumping from 1 to 2 in one big jump.
The Office of the Protovestiarios is the big infrastructure job. Roads, production, fortification, increased cash flow and trade.
So your decision making could look something like this:
Income: 120 Hyperpyra
Expenses: 80 Hyperpyra
Treasury: 50 Hyperpyra
Don't like those numbers? Adjust them at the next budget. But no department is going to be happy losing money and slashing the military budget to fund public works might have standards or the size of your army falling sharply. Of course if you keep a sound fiscal policy and a decent treasury surplus, you can probably weather any income reductions and keep the economy growing.
Any thoughts, objections, ideas for improvement?
Other big question. The save is long since incompatible, so a fresh start would be needed (and would let some more fun happen with the Flight/setup), but would you prefer shifting existing content into the Apocrypha/Sidestory and starting threadmarks from a new point, or a new thread entirely?
To be honest I don't mind starting fresh again.
Though maybe it's best to see if we should all just vote on it if you guys want?
Though maybe it's best to see if we should all just vote on it if you guys want?
- Location
- United States
A new thread seems like the best choice.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given that it is a new save, I think that there should be a new thread.
New Thread
The new thread is up, starting at the Flight and with added flavour text and a couple fun new options to consider!
Third Odyssey (Byzantium in the New World)
Third Odyssey (Byzantium in the New World)