[X] Significant Deviations from the Codex
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
[X] Significant Deviations from the Codex
Sometimes, we wouldn't be combating with the Chapter/Legion. At least, that seems to have stood out to me with Max Flexibility and Unique Identity. Just like the Imperial Heralds are at the moment in quest, even if they're being directed at the moment.
And unless Horus still falls to Chaos, well...
...wonder if it'll be Guilliman? Nah, can't be. D:
Sometimes, we wouldn't be combating with the Chapter/Legion. At least, that seems to have stood out to me with Max Flexibility and Unique Identity. Just like the Imperial Heralds are at the moment in quest, even if they're being directed at the moment.
And unless Horus still falls to Chaos, well...
...wonder if it'll be Guilliman? Nah, can't be. D:
wait, the Circle thinks the codex was made by Corax?
doesn't the Codex contain thoughts of Guilliman writing down referring to himself instead of corax ? if they read through the codex wouldn't they find such inconsistencies that point the author isn't Corax?
I am pretty sure that Corrax told them that Codex was made by their brother, but circle respects it as gift from the raven
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Basicially Corax transfered the knowledge of the Book to Lorgar who then eventually wrote it down.
A few things were lost in translation due to the rules of the vision quest. So they think it is a guide book given by Corax as it was sent as a last minute addon to the Space Marine Creation manual.
[X] Significant Deviations from the Codex
- Location
- Africa
[X]Significant Deviations from the Codex
This is what every other legion is doing right now
This is what every other legion is doing right now
[X] Moderate Deviations from the Codex
I think we shouldn't underestimate that the Codex is a work of transcendent genius written by a demigod boiling down his observations of nineteen other demigods' transhumanly brilliant tactics.
And while the Great Crusade was dependent on deploying space marines as a hammer, as shock troops, while Post-Heresy they are deployed more like a scalpel, as special forces, that doesn't mean the Great Crusade approach is correct.
For our Enlightened Marines in particular, the scalpel approach may be the superior model.
I think we shouldn't underestimate that the Codex is a work of transcendent genius written by a demigod boiling down his observations of nineteen other demigods' transhumanly brilliant tactics.
And while the Great Crusade was dependent on deploying space marines as a hammer, as shock troops, while Post-Heresy they are deployed more like a scalpel, as special forces, that doesn't mean the Great Crusade approach is correct.
For our Enlightened Marines in particular, the scalpel approach may be the superior model.
- Location
- Africa
Be fair to Lorgar here Magnus did a lot if things to deserve being sanctioned, like the way he and his legion were acting really did not help
like to give an example they were doing a compliance with Russ the world in question refused to surrender so Russ was about to do his thing when Magnus started countermanding him and sabotaging his deployment because he wanted to preserve their books and then he saw one of their marines succumb to the flesh change right in front of him
When the edict of Nikia happened neither the space wolves nor the white scars imposed it upon their legions despite being the two most heavily psyker using legions after the thousand sons and no one question them on the matter, why because everyone knew the edict was meant for Magnus and they understood what magnus was doing wrong
And it was also designed to cripple the forces who used it in logistics as well as narrow the use of the Warp in a context of pervasive paranoia. If you said the words 'safe sorcery' to Guilliman, especially post Heresy he would try to render the speaker to their component atoms and yet that is a thing we have and can get more of.
And tell me how many of them ended up with less marines i.e. higher loses than ultramarines? Oh thats right all of them not named alpha legion
- Location
- Africa
The only reason they out numbered the dark angels was because they skipped out on the rangdan xenocides and because grillman used used his logistical specialist skills plus the 500 worlds of Ultramar to ensure that the rate of new marines made exceeded losses
Also the codex wasn't even made until after the heresy
The thing is, the Codex pragmatically rejects the Council of Nikea's condemnation of space marine psykers and authorises the reactivation of the Librariuses in direct contradiction of the Emperor's command, because Guilliman's experience of the Heresy convinced him of their necessity. Sorcery and psyker powers are different, but in terms of doctrinal and organisational use, Librarians being allowed to use sorcery as well as psyker powers doesn't actually make any difference.
In terms of logistics, space marine chapters very much aren't crippled logistically. They're designed to be able to operate with almost complete operational autonomy, having their own independent logistics train not dependent on anyone else. This is because, I think, he's experienced the Heresy, where the Loyalist Legions' dependence on the Mechanicum out them in a very difficult spot when a lot of Forge Worlds either turned traitor or became mired in internal conflict and unable to export equipment.
What the Codex mainly did was fragment the Legions so it was harder for them to concentrate strength, making them better at sustaining an Empire and covering a broad front as autonomous special forces choosing to fix whatever problems they decided were most pressing, and handing on the role of mass shock troops to elite imperial guard regiments
Given later Imperial successes and significant expansion after the Scouring and the Forging Era, codex complaint chapters as part of the wider Imperial military seem to have been no less and possibly more effective than the Great Crusade legion structure. There certainly were no more mass space marine rebellions.
The Codex rejects the Council of Nikea's condemnation of space marine psyker, but it does not do so pragmatically, it does so reluctantly, keeping the Librarians isolated from command positions. It also does not prioritize the use of psychic powers where other weapons could be used because it judges (rightly) that psychic powers are fundamentally unsafe. That is not true for us once we get Awakened Essence users off the ground.
As for the logistics the codex also stripped Chapters of their Imperial Army, and especially Navy Auxiliary, intentionally preventing Chapters from amassing the kind of large and varied naval presence that lead to say the Badab War (being enacted by a very non-complaint chapter). The Codex is near perfect... as an instrument of control. It is a testament to that transhuman genius that it is also strategically viable.
As for the Imperium continuing to expand during the Scouring, that could simply be a function of the Imperium's size and economies of scale, that is a very large scale system that you are attributing not just to one specialized force (the marines) but also the specific use of that specialized force.
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You assume that moderate option doesn't make changes to said position of psykers/shamans, which btw I somewhat agree. Post HH warp is a mess, 99% of psykers should be focused on not being on fire, not leading the chapter or their battlebrothers if there are options
Nikea banned the use of psyker powers by space marines at all. It didn't ban Librarians from command positions, it said there were no more Librarians, and they had to renounce using their powers and serve as regular space marines, whether that was as officers or regular troops. There was nothing at Nikea that banned an ex-Librarian from being a chapter commander or even high ranked, just from using their powers
The Codex didn't strip chapters of their logistics. Indeed, it enhanced their logistics by giving them many more worlds directly controlled by space marines to supply them with men and material. What it did was remove their command authority over non-space marines, on the grounds that it has been proved that space marines couldn't be trusted with that privilege. Which, to be fair, there was pretty strong evidence of even before the Heresy, with non-space marine troops being abused and deployed wastefully by the Primarchs and other legion officers.
Yes Nikea did not ban Librarians from positions of power as they did not exist, but the Codex does ban its reinstated Librarians from positions of power within the chapter. The Blood Ravens are called out as non-Codex Compliant because they do not do so.
Yeah old Papa Smurf had his reasons for taking away the power of the Legions... but we are in charge of a legion, we want more power concentrated into their hands because that is our power, including our auxiliaries which should be integrated into the command of the Imperial Heralds or whatever we call them.
The Blood Ravens are a counter example of why having your leaders being able to tell the future and coordinate telepathically is... useful to have even when you are a plain Vanila psyker... which we are not planning to run.
Hey Guilliman what do you think of our Exalted Shaman Sorcerers using the powers of a lost age?
...
What about the plan to have Marines shapeshift into human form?
...
Oh... I know what are your thoughts on mass producing mana potions with sorcerous arts in order to use safe warp magic?
...
What about integrating bespoke demons into legion operations?
...*Guilliman.exe has crashed*
The Codex was not made for us, we can still get some use out of it, but we should go as loose as we can considering the above.
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- Location
- Russia
Since the consensus is split between "Moderate Deviation" and "Significant Deviation", I believe most of the Codex faults would be handled in either option, since we are choosing to not adhere to all (Complete Adherence to the Codex) or most (Minor Deviations from the Codex) of its tenets.
So either option would take into account our safe prolific magic use, owning our own logistic chains and tech, or desire to integrate non-SM troops into the war doctrine.
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That would make the vote pointless I think. The entire point of this scale is 'how much are you willing to be peer-pressured by a version what will hopefully never be of an Imperium you haven't met?' and the GM made it clear that we are talking about the magic parts here.
- Location
- India
[X]Significant Deviations from the Codex
[X] Significant Deviations from the Codex
f it, we ball.
f it, we ball.