East Africa 1930: An ORBAT Quest

[X] Plan: Training Infrastructure

Honestly a bit scared about malicious compliance with the training requests. But it's not like our own NCOs and officers are idiots who don't know what a properly trained soldier is.
 
Like the quest, just caught up. Couple of things to note on ongoing discussion;

1) We have to be careful with getting IJN institutional knowledge for sailors for one big reason: Damage Control. DamCon in Japanese ships was a specific team, and it's been noted they're really the only navy that ever did that. It creates problems with an elitist outlook and getting damcon teams to fires in a rapid timeframe. Otherwise the IJN was very good at torpedo warfare and nighttime combat.

2) Infantry assistance from the IJA also has ups and downs. Lack of low level initiative should be seen as one of the biggest downs, especially with the size of the army. Bayonet charges can be useful, but require good judgement from ordering officers to use them well. A lot of the specialist jungle warfare and camouflage won't really translate to Savannah plains and city fighting. Finally, if we want SMGs, it'll make it more difficult, as the Japanese, due to manufacturing difficulties more than anything, prioritized the regular rifle over everything.

If anyone should be approached for infantry combat, I would actually say Germany would be best. They (will) have a lot of low level initiative, and they center their tactics around squad level machine guns, which I think we're trying to get to, right?
 
[X] Plan: Training Infrastructure

Speaking of SMGs, does the Japanese have any decent SMGs that we can copy?

Unfortunately not. The Type 100 was their only domestic design produced in any large amount and even then 'large amount' means about 8k to 10k and production of the '100 began in '42. Japan was *very late* to the SMG game.

Right now all they probably have are a few thousand or so MP-18s they bought off of Germany, if even that.
 
Unfortunately not. The Type 100 was their only domestic design produced in any large amount and even then 'large amount' means about 8k to 10k and production of the '100 began in '42. Japan was *very late* to the SMG game.

Right now all they probably have are a few thousand or so MP-18s they bought off of Germany, if even that.

If we already have the pistols have a standardized round, we could develop something resembling the Type 100 years early. Or try to re-caliber a foreign design to use the pistol rounds we use. On the plus side, if we do pursue this path, we could sell our guns back to the Japanese. Presuming they don't start the a war with the British, of course.
 
Not gonna vote, but with taking the Japanese assistance with infantry, we really, REALLY, are going to need to train up a solid core of NCOs or equivalents.

As for SMGs, an actual alternative for our situation could be shotguns.
 
I do think we should just buy pistols when the need is formalized, but right now it seems that our officers are basically responsible for their own equipment.
 
Yeah, that thing is awesome and would make for a great light mortar for platoons. Honestly, after we finish the procurement project for the HMGs I think sorting out grenades, platoon mortars and battalion mortars should be our next step. Grenades are the premier close combat weapon for infantry while mortars are excellent support weapons and cheap artillery.
 
[X] Plan: Training Infrastructure
If we already have the pistols have a standardized round, we could develop something resembling the Type 100 years early. Or try to re-caliber a foreign design to use the pistol rounds we use. On the plus side, if we do pursue this path, we could sell our guns back to the Japanese. Presuming they don't start the a war with the British, of course.
The problem from what I've gathered is recognizing that a SMG is important, and that it's important for use as a cheap, close-range personal weapon instead of being a "slightly different machine gun". Hopefully, between the Foreign Ideas and observing the Chaco War, we can identify that as being important.

In an ideal world, we'd come out with stamped metal ultra-cheap SMG early enough that we could recoup the setup costs by selling to the Republicans and to the Japanese for use in China, but idk if our industry can handle moving that fast.
Yeah, that thing is awesome and would make for a great light mortar for platoons. Honestly, after we finish the procurement project for the HMGs I think sorting out grenades, platoon mortars and battalion mortars should be our next step. Grenades are the premier close combat weapon for infantry while mortars are excellent support weapons and cheap artillery.
Agreed on the Type 89. It's adorable and apparently was quite effective.
I think, before grenades, I'd like to try and both increase funding towards rifle manufacturing (because otherwise it'll take us a decade to meet the need of our expanding army), and ask the arsenal to try and simplify production in ways that don't affect performance to increase output (e.g., it's fine if there are still tool marks on the outside of the barrel, that doesn't affect if the rifle shoots straight or not). Reewiin's economically strained enough that we don't have to be losing a war and panicking about invasion to start looking at making improvements that bring us closer to a "last-ditch" rifle (in cosmetic aspects) or the post-Dunkirk Bren gun simplifications.

I'm also not as averse to delaying grenades because the Czechs - who we already have contacts with - are introducing a really nifty grenade, the OUG vz. 34, in the mear future. I suspect it'd be a bit of an UXO risk if we issued an impact-fuzed grenade into general service (I'd prefer us just adopting something F1-inspired, since that seems to be the general consensus for "best"), but it might be useful for specialist roles like impact-fuzed satchel charges for AT work.

Thinking about this, what about scheduling rifle production improvements (hopefully for 3-6 months), then doing what is hopefully a 6-month action to procure more battalion artillery (either 81 mm mortars, my preferred option, or 70 mm battalion guns), circling around to grenade trials and setting up a domestic production line after that for fragmentation and AT grenades (probably a year), purchasing knee mortars from Japan (hopefully 3 months), and then getting to work on SMGs?
 
That seems unrealistic unless we improve our industry as it's already strained while producing existing designs.

Short term we could purchase mortars and artillery from someone (I am once again proposing the Canon de 75 modèle 1897) but long term we'd need to expand our industry if we want to domestically produce artillery or further develop our small arms industry.
 
Reminder we are not Czechoslovakia or say Sweden we simply lack a lot of the Technical expertise required in Actually designing automatic weapons. And us attempting to design a SMG is likely to end up with an extremely unreliable and expensive for us to Produce design
 
Legitimate question. What's the opinion on field guns for AT work? I ask because they have a longer shelf life than AT rifles and if we ever get armor they have some transferable lessons.

Edit:
On SMGs, we're screwed for something truly cheap at the moment. Almost every single interwar SMG is milled steel, with only the late 30s having stamped steel show up (The Sten wasn't really designed/implemented yet, and the other poster child the MP 40 isn't until after the MP 38, hell the grease gun isn't until like 43/44).
 
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Honestly instead of SMGs we may do the far cheaper and technically demanding option of Adopting something like the High Power with a Pistol Stock. Sure it is not automatic, but for the soldiers we most likely would give a sidearm having a stocked pistol could be very much useful
 
Legitimate question. What's the opinion on field guns for AT work? I ask because they have a longer shelf life than AT rifles and if we ever get armor they have some transferable lessons.

With long enough barrel - yes. Soviet M1936 divisional gun was used as a cannon for german and romanian tank destroyers. But it had L48 barrel.

That's quite longer than Reewiin's Krupp 75s (with L30) and type 92s (L10 I think?). Maybe there are suitable guns in 1933 available though.
 
That seems unrealistic unless we improve our industry as it's already strained while producing existing designs.

Short term we could purchase mortars and artillery from someone (I am once again proposing the Canon de 75 modèle 1897) but long term we'd need to expand our industry if we want to domestically produce artillery or further develop our small arms industry.
Oh, strongly agreed, we should not be producing artillery domestically at this point. Maybe in 5-10 years if things go really well for us, but for now, it's better to just purchase those things from abroad. Grenades are the one exception because I think we should be able to produce them since we have a steel industry (for casting the grenade bodies) and are producing ammunition already (so we have a supply of explosives), but if not, then purchase those from abroad too.
Reminder we are not Czechoslovakia or say Sweden we simply lack a lot of the Technical expertise required in Actually designing automatic weapons. And us attempting to design a SMG is likely to end up with an extremely unreliable and expensive for us to Produce design
Blowback SMGs are mechanically very simple. You have a chunk of steel pressed up against the breech face, and its sheer mass holds it closed long enough to prevent case ruptures (and finding out this mass is as simple as putting an existing SMG's bolt on a scale). This chunk of steel moves backwards under the residual pressure of the combustion gases, opening the breech in the same way as, for example, a bolt-action rifle. After it reaches the backstop, a spring pushes it back forwards, and it chambers a round, again like a bolt-action rifle (and getting this to work is again a case of "measure an existing SMG, copy the dimensions used"). A raised bump on the front of the chunk of steel acts as the firing pin.

In terms of firearms, an open-bolt, fixed firing pin straight blowback SMG is about the easiest thing you can make. It's easier to make than a bolt-action rifle; those have to worry about things like properly designed locking surfaces and stuff while a blowback SMG's equivalent is simply "did I make the bolt heavy enough?". The most difficult part is getting the magazine feed to work smoothly, but that's the kind of thing that we can do a straight ripoff of foreign designs on; there's plenty we could steal.
Legitimate question. What's the opinion on field guns for AT work? I ask because they have a longer shelf life than AT rifles and if we ever get armor they have some transferable lessons.

Edit:
On SMGs, we're screwed for something truly cheap at the moment. Almost every single interwar SMG is milled steel, with only the late 30s having stamped steel show up (The Sten wasn't really designed/implemented yet, and the other poster child the MP 40 isn't until after the MP 38, hell the grease gun isn't until like 43/44).
Field guns are basically the only "heavy " AT option right now, but they're expensive and difficult to transport around the battlefield. Our 13.2 mm machine guns are a lot more practical against what we'd be facing in the short term.

On SMGs, yeah, that's why we'd have to develop our own low-cost SMG if we wanted one. It is possible to make a milled SMG for relatively cheap (e.g., use tube stock for the receiver so that you don't have to do as much milling to get the overall shape, have a separate fire control group housing that's press-fit and tack welded into the bottom, minimize cuts in general), but few people in the '30s were concerned with "make gun as cheap as possible" which is why you see SMGs with select fire and bipods and adjustable sights that go out to 2 km and other silliness. If we establish a precedent of Reewiin trying to take other country's gun idea and then simplifying it as much as possible for cheap production with things like the Arisaka, I think we could also do the same with a SMG. Resistance groups in occupied Europe were able to produce SMGs with essentially zero industrial base, so I think we can too if we identify the need and our arms industry has spare capacity.
Honestly instead of SMGs we may do the far cheaper and technically demanding option of Adopting something like the High Power with a Pistol Stock. Sure it is not automatic, but for the soldiers we most likely would give a sidearm having a stocked pistol could be very much useful
A Hi-power is mechanically far more complex than an open-bolt SMG (it's a tilting barrel locked breech, so you need to have a system that'll precisely engage locking surfaces that are strong enough to withstand the force of firing while also keeping the barrel lined up accurately), not to mention that pistols are absurdly expensive for their capabilities - we'd be paying as much for stocked pistos as we would a SMG.

Edit: If you want to adopt a stocked pistol, let's start with a straight blowback pistol like the FN Browning 1910. We'll want to fire a larger cartridge than .32 ACP, so let's increase the mass of the slide to compensate. Semi-auto requires complicated disconnectors, so let's make it so that as long as the trigger is held down, it shoots, which simplifies the internal mechanics a lot. To reduce the rate of fire to something more manageable, let's increase the mass of the slide again, and strengthen the recoil spring a bit to improve durability. Give it a stock, a larger magazine, and let's remove some of those fancy machining cuts on the slide to speed production. We have now convergently evolved to the SMG.
 
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