East Africa 1930: An ORBAT Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
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[X] Plan: Matters of Courtesy
I'm voting for this over the first hit, because I have the feeling Japan will at least want us to allow two demands through.
I'm voting for this over the first hit, because I have the feeling Japan will at least want us to allow two demands through.
[X] Plan: The First Hit's Always Free
just for the sake of argument id like to propose some radical plans.
could we investigate to find evidence that this was in fact a staged incident?could we coninvingly forge a half burned letter woth orders to get into a fight?
could we approach the league of nations for international arbitration (with japan being a pariah, chances of us getting a favourable outcome are very large)
having proposed the whacky jdeas, i think just appeasing the japanese with a trial and economic integration is fine. We should not under any circumstances allow more japanese in our soil, this is just inviting further incidents down the line.
i do propose that after whatever agreement is sent we offer to put the matter to international abritration should the terms be found lacking.(we can be friendly with one another but ask too much and we call the big boys to the table)
could we investigate to find evidence that this was in fact a staged incident?could we coninvingly forge a half burned letter woth orders to get into a fight?
could we approach the league of nations for international arbitration (with japan being a pariah, chances of us getting a favourable outcome are very large)
having proposed the whacky jdeas, i think just appeasing the japanese with a trial and economic integration is fine. We should not under any circumstances allow more japanese in our soil, this is just inviting further incidents down the line.
i do propose that after whatever agreement is sent we offer to put the matter to international abritration should the terms be found lacking.(we can be friendly with one another but ask too much and we call the big boys to the table)
Excuse me but what do you expect the League of Nations to do they have no power they can't Force anyone to do anything, Japan just deciding to leave instead of listening to them when invading China is the straw that broke the camel's back especially.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
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Not only should we give Japan everything they want, we should permanently hitch ourselves to them as their closest and most ready ally. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The Empire of Japan is in ascendant in Asia and is going from strength to strength. It's likely going to remain a major power for decades to come. The only thing that could stop it is if it, say for example, decided to take on the greatest industrial power in the world and its allies and fought a grueling multi-year campaign that ended with the deployment of weapons of never seen before power. Which sounds to me like complete fiction.
Not to mention, the Japanese are our natural allies against European imperialism, as it stands the Japanese are truly the only non imperialist power that can aid and protect us from the oppression of the Europeans, we should in fact propose that the Japanese annex Reewiin and directly rule it from Tokyo, I am sure nothing wrong would happen.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
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The Japan-Reewiin connection. A kind of axis, if you will.
So I know it's a meme, but by 1932 the IJN was (at least internally) thinking of a war against the United States.
I'm not sure if the intelligence office would know the factions within the Navy General Staff, but this isn't something they're exactly keeping quiet so I think the odds are decent-ish? Japanese politics were deeply linked with the military, and the naval staff is quite vocal about what they think should happen, and as a steel producing nation, we'd likely be trying to keep informed of naval matters so that we can estimate demand for steel.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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Please Roll 1d100 to determine the Presidents decision
rolling
edit: misread decision as election
edit: misread decision as election
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4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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Ah, I see you've figured out our vote scheme... or have you?!
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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- It/She/They
To be clear, we (the QM's) know what every roll is potentially going to do before you roll it. We keeps records of it.
We just think it's most fun if you don't know.
Turn 10 Vote: April 1932
Eukie
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Turn 10 Vote: April 1932
Project Development
Ongoing Projects
[X] Establish the Ordnance Office - Developing an arms industry from scratch will take time and effort. An Ordnance Office will allow us to delegate some of that work to specialists. (Constant Investment.)[X] Establish the Carabinieri Oversight Office - No one really keeps an eye on the paramilitary police force that keeps watch over the nation. If the force is to be reformed and re-established in a new role, then oversight is needed at the very least. (Constant Investment.)
[X] Organisational Reform: Police Force - While the Carabinieri is responsible for internal security, its position as a military force can compromise that. Each Region should have a specialist policing force subsidiary to its larger military formation. (3 Months Remain) ☑☑◻
[X] Establish a Veterinary Oversight Office - Bringing hundreds of horses into Reewiin and establishing breeding programs will require extensive oversight, administrative effort, and coordination. (Constant Investment.)Completed Projects
[X] Reverse-engineer the Type 3 machine guns currently in service and begin production of a copy at Reewiin's state arsenal now that Hotchkiss's patent on the design has expired. If feasible, make limited alterations to the design based on field reports, to improve performance, and/or to reduce cost. (Project Complete!) ☑☑[X] The Veterinary office will conduct basic field tests, agricultural surveys, and number crunching to determine the logistical constraints on future projects to employ horses, donkeys, mules, oxen, and other field animals as part of the military's operations. (Project Complete!) ☑☑
[X] Enlarge the NCO Cadre - Reewiin lacks an effective base of experienced sergeants and corporals. Improving this will improve the Army overall. Choose one:
[X] Increase Recruitment (Project Complete!) ☑☑☑☑
[X] Write-in: Promote promising, experienced enlisted soldiers, especially those overlooked due to not being Somali.
Kismayo-Turkana Line:
Progress, Kismayo-Marsabit: 92% (Est. completion June 1932)
Progress, Marsabit-Turkana: 46% (Est. completion October 1933)
Arisaka Rifles, Orders, and Production:
Progress, Rifle Deliveries: 35% (Est. completion November 1932)
Progress, Rifle Factory: 3 rifles per day
Type 3 HMG Project:
Progress, Reverse Engineering: 20% (Est. completion March 1932)
Reports
The President has agreed with a plurality of the Defence Council - Reewiin will not formally cede any of its territory to Japan. There will be no free port, no naval station, and no self-policed enclave in Kismayo in response to a riot many still claim was instigated by the Japanese sailors.
However, as is ever the case with diplomacy, promises must still be made to satisfy the Japanese position. The President has agreed a fair trial will be held for all participants from the riot, Reewiinite and Japanese alike (though it is understood that no Japanese rioters have remained in Reewiin). The bodies of the foreign dead will be repatriated at government expense, as will their effects if they can be found.
Japan, Reewiin's biggest customer for steel, will receive preferential treatment in purchasing until 1935, including reduced fees and tariffs. Ten percent of Reewiin's production of firearms, both domestic and licensed from Japan, will be made available to Japan for free, and a further seventy percent of weapons will be offered at cost. Some of this will be implemented by simply allowing Reewiin to purchase rifles made in its own factory from Japan, thus fulfilling the import order that had previously been placed.
The agreement was formally signed into existence on a sunny day in late March. Neither party acknowledged what they both knew to be true - that these concessions would further destabilise Reewiin's already shaky economic foundation.
Remove one Investment point.
However, as is ever the case with diplomacy, promises must still be made to satisfy the Japanese position. The President has agreed a fair trial will be held for all participants from the riot, Reewiinite and Japanese alike (though it is understood that no Japanese rioters have remained in Reewiin). The bodies of the foreign dead will be repatriated at government expense, as will their effects if they can be found.
Japan, Reewiin's biggest customer for steel, will receive preferential treatment in purchasing until 1935, including reduced fees and tariffs. Ten percent of Reewiin's production of firearms, both domestic and licensed from Japan, will be made available to Japan for free, and a further seventy percent of weapons will be offered at cost. Some of this will be implemented by simply allowing Reewiin to purchase rifles made in its own factory from Japan, thus fulfilling the import order that had previously been placed.
The agreement was formally signed into existence on a sunny day in late March. Neither party acknowledged what they both knew to be true - that these concessions would further destabilise Reewiin's already shaky economic foundation.
Remove one Investment point.
After studying and carefully measuring the Type 3 examples in service and acquiring patent drawings for the Hotchkiss type machine gun, the Ordnance Office believes it should be possible to manufacture copies of the Type 3 in Reewiinite machine shops. They expect the first working examples to be complete before the new year 1352.
The Veterinary Office has looked at the logistical constraints for the use of various draught animals in the future army.
Based on numerous surveys, the office finds that Reewiin is home to approximately 100,000 horses, 50,000 mules, 50,000 donkeys, and an unknown number of cattle, elephants, and wild zebras. Estimates suggest that about a percent of these could be put towards Army use in peacetime, with perhaps a tenth immediately available for a short campaign.
This would allow the Army to maintain some 2,000 horses, donkeys, and mules in peacetime, more than enough to replace the slow-moving cattle currently handling army-level logistics and supply. Wastage across all categories of animals is expected to be no less than one in ten each year, requiring regular replacement.
Complete mobilisation to a level similar to the Japanese and the European armies would require between one horse per four men and one horse per three men, in addition to as many donkeys or mules. (If horses are not used, one donkey or mule per man may be necessary.)
At current levels, this would allow a complete Japanese/European-equivalent mobilisation of about half the army in peacetime, or five times the current army in a short campaign. Perhaps one regiment could be mobilised using only donkeys and mules. It is possible to purchase draught animals from abroad to field a large wartime army, which seems to be the expected practice among many other nations.
In wartime, wastage becomes an acute concern. The peacetime wastage of one in ten per year can be expected to jump to between one in seven and one in six for most animals, at least. For horses and mules, wastage is highly variable and dependent on the severity of horse sickness outbreaks, but may rise to over one horse per horse per year (or one per five per month) depending on breed, and one mule per five mules per year (or one per sixty per month). If horses are used south of the border with Kenya, where sleeping sickness is endemic, wastage may rise to just under three horses per horse per year, or one horse per four per month of combat operations.
One way to ensure a steady supply of new horses would be establishing an army unit for intensive breeding of horses. With this, some 650 new foals could be born each year, expanding the overall stock of horses at a rate of six to seven per ten. This would be significantly above the peacetime wastage rate except in dire circumstances, allowing rapid expansion of our great country's horse reserves with time.
The Veterinary Office discussed the possibility of replacing some or all of the necessary horses with zebras or zebra mules. Zebras and zebra mules could replace horses on a one-for-one basis and would suffer significantly less wastage, comparable to regular donkeys and donkey mules. However, the logistical concerns were difficult to determine. No thorough analysis could be made due to a lack of data on our great nation's zebra population and its replacement rates; as such, the office chose to focus studies on traditional draught animals to make best use of its resources.
Based on numerous surveys, the office finds that Reewiin is home to approximately 100,000 horses, 50,000 mules, 50,000 donkeys, and an unknown number of cattle, elephants, and wild zebras. Estimates suggest that about a percent of these could be put towards Army use in peacetime, with perhaps a tenth immediately available for a short campaign.
This would allow the Army to maintain some 2,000 horses, donkeys, and mules in peacetime, more than enough to replace the slow-moving cattle currently handling army-level logistics and supply. Wastage across all categories of animals is expected to be no less than one in ten each year, requiring regular replacement.
Complete mobilisation to a level similar to the Japanese and the European armies would require between one horse per four men and one horse per three men, in addition to as many donkeys or mules. (If horses are not used, one donkey or mule per man may be necessary.)
At current levels, this would allow a complete Japanese/European-equivalent mobilisation of about half the army in peacetime, or five times the current army in a short campaign. Perhaps one regiment could be mobilised using only donkeys and mules. It is possible to purchase draught animals from abroad to field a large wartime army, which seems to be the expected practice among many other nations.
In wartime, wastage becomes an acute concern. The peacetime wastage of one in ten per year can be expected to jump to between one in seven and one in six for most animals, at least. For horses and mules, wastage is highly variable and dependent on the severity of horse sickness outbreaks, but may rise to over one horse per horse per year (or one per five per month) depending on breed, and one mule per five mules per year (or one per sixty per month). If horses are used south of the border with Kenya, where sleeping sickness is endemic, wastage may rise to just under three horses per horse per year, or one horse per four per month of combat operations.
One way to ensure a steady supply of new horses would be establishing an army unit for intensive breeding of horses. With this, some 650 new foals could be born each year, expanding the overall stock of horses at a rate of six to seven per ten. This would be significantly above the peacetime wastage rate except in dire circumstances, allowing rapid expansion of our great country's horse reserves with time.
The Veterinary Office discussed the possibility of replacing some or all of the necessary horses with zebras or zebra mules. Zebras and zebra mules could replace horses on a one-for-one basis and would suffer significantly less wastage, comparable to regular donkeys and donkey mules. However, the logistical concerns were difficult to determine. No thorough analysis could be made due to a lack of data on our great nation's zebra population and its replacement rates; as such, the office chose to focus studies on traditional draught animals to make best use of its resources.
A twelve-month drive to improve the Reewiin Army has come to a (budgetary) end with the formal enlistment of the latest class of non-commissioned officers. Some are reservists, some are retired riflemen, and others are drawn from the ranks. All are part of a concerted push to improve the military.
Discipline has improved dramatically, especially in the wake of the rioting in Kismayo. Stricter policies around curfews, behaviour, and especially punishment have contributed to improving the actions of the common soldier when he is not with his unit. However, this is also having a secondary effect. Reports show that morale has fallen amongst the men, which shows no sign of rising any time soon. The primary issue is their newfound inability to spend their time gambling, drinking, and whoring (notably against the advice of the Imams). In addition, complaints that Reewin's soldiers were prevented from 'winning' the fight against the Japanese sailors are also prevalent.
Finally, and perhaps most concerning, the promotion of non-Somali enlisted soldiers into positions of authority has led to dissent in the Somali-dominated officer and NCO corps. While it is expected that this will resolve with enough time and due care given to the situation, there are concerning rumours of Bantu NCOs being cut out of the command structure by their juniors and seniors.
Discipline has improved dramatically, especially in the wake of the rioting in Kismayo. Stricter policies around curfews, behaviour, and especially punishment have contributed to improving the actions of the common soldier when he is not with his unit. However, this is also having a secondary effect. Reports show that morale has fallen amongst the men, which shows no sign of rising any time soon. The primary issue is their newfound inability to spend their time gambling, drinking, and whoring (notably against the advice of the Imams). In addition, complaints that Reewin's soldiers were prevented from 'winning' the fight against the Japanese sailors are also prevalent.
Finally, and perhaps most concerning, the promotion of non-Somali enlisted soldiers into positions of authority has led to dissent in the Somali-dominated officer and NCO corps. While it is expected that this will resolve with enough time and due care given to the situation, there are concerning rumours of Bantu NCOs being cut out of the command structure by their juniors and seniors.
Tokei Arsenal apologises for delays in the deliveries of our new rifles, citing the situation in Manchuko. With that debacle now resolved, they assure us that rifle deliveries will resume at the previous rate. The order is now scheduled for completion in November 1932.
Defence Council Investment - April 1932
The Defence Council currently has two investment points available; one to be spent on Veterinary, and one to be spent on Armaments.Industry and Logistics
Armaments[ ] Weapon Testing: Machine Guns - The Ordnance Office will buy a handful of machine guns from around the world and test them until they break. Afterwards, they will make recommendations to the Defence Council on the topic of machine gun licensing. (6-Month Investment. Recommendations will be made at the end of this process.)
[ ] Production Licensing: Machine Guns - Attempt to buy the rights to produce a machine gun design. Include a weapon available in 1931 as a Write-In. Some will be easily acquired, others will be immediately refused. (12-Month Investment. Initial production will be low-rate, and improve over time.)
[ ] NEW! Increase Funding: Type 3 - By funnelling additional investment towards the Type 3 project, it may be possible to have a prototype ready faster. (6-Month Investment.)
[ ] Restructure the Ordnance Office - Reduce staffing in the Ordnance Office to retain oversight of programs in progress and free up capital for investment elsewhere. This does not cost an investment point and can be done at any time. (3-Month Investment.)
Breeding and Working
[ ] Equine Acquisition: Purchase Arabians - Buy Arabian horses for service en masse from Egypt. They will be monogender, and we will not be able to maintain the line if they're used for breeding stock. They also may not be resistant to AHS/ASS. (3-Month Investment. Sufficient mass of horses should be available in as little as one year.)
[ ] Equine Acquisition: Stud Farms - Buy a small number of Arabian studs from the United States. These will make good breeding stock for future programmes. (3-Month Investment. A breeding programme can begin within the year.)
[ ] Government Action: Push for Equine Conscription - While pastoralism is not exactly a major industry in Reewiin, there are a large number of animals that could be put to wartime use, were they assessed in a proper census. (6-Month Investment. Implementation will occur at the government's pace.)
[ ] Restructure the Veterinary Office - Reduce staffing in the Veterinary Office to retain oversight of programs in progress and free up capital for investment elsewhere. This does not cost an investment point and can be done at any time. (3-Month Investment.)
Lanes, Trains, and Automobiles
Doctrine and Organisation
DCIRROReforming the Carabinieri
[ ] Restructure the Carabinieri Office - Reduce staffing in the Carabinieri Office to retain oversight of programs in progress and free up capital for investment elsewhere. This does not cost an investment point and can be done at any time. (3-Month Investment.)
Reforming the Army
[ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge.
[ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge.
[ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge.
[ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJN institutional knowledge.
[ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge.
[ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge.
[ ] Optional: Request Japanese support for this program, improving impacts and benefiting from IJA institutional knowledge.
[ ] Establish a more formal reservist force from those claiming their pension.
[ ] Increase recruitment - Write in the desired force size.
[ ] Write in.
[ ] Increase recruitment - Write in the desired force size.
[ ] Write in.
[ ] Write-in: What do you order?
A New Ship
You are more than welcome to ask questions about what is acceptable as a write-in vote.
There will be a 6-hour moratorium on voting to encourage discussion. The vote will close in three days.
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Breeding and Working
Write in: set up a unit dedicated to increasing the number of horses available.
I think we got all we need for the horse logistics except enough animals to use.
Armaments
Licence the Czechoslovakia LMG adapted to fire the same ammo as our rifles use.
We have an HMG in the work so time to add an LMG using the existing ammo.
Write in: set up a unit dedicated to increasing the number of horses available.
I think we got all we need for the horse logistics except enough animals to use.
Armaments
Licence the Czechoslovakia LMG adapted to fire the same ammo as our rifles use.
We have an HMG in the work so time to add an LMG using the existing ammo.
force200
Megaspell Technician
- Location
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Did you mess up something with the numbers?
So army morale has tanked, which can be expected. The loss of an investment point is tough, but at least the situation's resolved. Hopefully things improve once we've gotten all our guns, and the armaments factory is getting lots of orders...
I'm in favour cutting the Vet office. We've spent two years on horses and any improvement is going to require a costly breeding program to address; while oxen are slow, any war that's not a short campaign will probably have bigger concerns than us needing to replace dead horses with cattle. We have one free point, and things like army reforms are more important now that our logistics are passable IMO.
With regards to the Ordnance Board, grabbing the ZB seems a reasonable choice. That'll take a year, we can spend a year licensing something else (light mortars?), and then we can start production of the not-Type 3 MMG.
I'd like to plan things out so that we start widespread rifle training in Q4 1932. That should be around when deliveries wrap up and range time will be most effective. That gives us 6 months to fill with something else. The most promising options IMO are either Analysis: The Foreigners Have Some Good Ideas, or combining Information Review: Government and Give Council Position to Army Liaison (with modifications to also give positions to Carabinieri and industry liaisons and to make sure it's non-voting).
-[ ] Production Licensing: Machine Guns - Attempt to buy the rights to produce a machine gun design. Include a weapon available in 1931 as a Write-In. Some will be easily acquired, others will be immediately refused. (12-Month Investment. Initial production will be low-rate, and improve over time.)
--[ ] Write-in: ZB vz. 30, rechambered to fire 6.5x50mmSR Type 38 and simplified wherever possible
---[ ] Write-in: Also ask ZB about those typewriters and light trucks they mentioned
-[ ] Restructure the Vet Office (free)
-[ ] ???
Edit:
View: https://youtu.be/HcbFEIomzm4
I'm in favour cutting the Vet office. We've spent two years on horses and any improvement is going to require a costly breeding program to address; while oxen are slow, any war that's not a short campaign will probably have bigger concerns than us needing to replace dead horses with cattle. We have one free point, and things like army reforms are more important now that our logistics are passable IMO.
With regards to the Ordnance Board, grabbing the ZB seems a reasonable choice. That'll take a year, we can spend a year licensing something else (light mortars?), and then we can start production of the not-Type 3 MMG.
I'd like to plan things out so that we start widespread rifle training in Q4 1932. That should be around when deliveries wrap up and range time will be most effective. That gives us 6 months to fill with something else. The most promising options IMO are either Analysis: The Foreigners Have Some Good Ideas, or combining Information Review: Government and Give Council Position to Army Liaison (with modifications to also give positions to Carabinieri and industry liaisons and to make sure it's non-voting).
-[ ] Production Licensing: Machine Guns - Attempt to buy the rights to produce a machine gun design. Include a weapon available in 1931 as a Write-In. Some will be easily acquired, others will be immediately refused. (12-Month Investment. Initial production will be low-rate, and improve over time.)
--[ ] Write-in: ZB vz. 30, rechambered to fire 6.5x50mmSR Type 38 and simplified wherever possible
---[ ] Write-in: Also ask ZB about those typewriters and light trucks they mentioned
-[ ] Restructure the Vet Office (free)
-[ ] ???
Edit:
View: https://youtu.be/HcbFEIomzm4
Last edited:
Eukie
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Hijri calendar. It means sometime around April 1933, western calendar.
