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East Africa 1930: An ORBAT Quest

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We haven't even finished establishing police units yet, so at best the Carabinieri are gonna wade in and cracks heads. Probably with clubs because current anti-riot techniques are "lots of guys with truncheons" and escalate up to "fire live ammunition".

Not that the army is any better.
 
So, for the purposes of discussion, this just happened in China:
en.wikipedia.org

Tientsin Incident (1931) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
The Japanese military is not above escalating a riot for their own ends, we should be very cautious about letting this get bigger than it currently is - either through not responding, or responding too harshly. I don't want to send the 1st Regiment in outright because that's an explicitly military force, and next thing we know some Japanese officer's gonna get the bright idea of "fighting back" and start lobbing 6" shells into Kismayo.

QMs, would the following write-in be acceptable?

[] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to Kismayo to assist with containment and deterrence (but otherwise not engage rioters)
 
C_Z said:
QMs, would the following write-in be acceptable?

[] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to Kismayo to assist with containment and deterrence (but otherwise not engage rioters)
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So long as you understand that in high stress situations, orders are not always followed to the letter, I am perfectly content with this write in
 
[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.

Open to switching to a write-in if it gets refined more, but don't want to try a lot of "engage but only in this specific way" orders right now. Sending in the Carabinieri while moving forces in the background in case things get worse sounds good.
 
[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
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[x] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.

I could maybe see an argument for preparing the First to move in if the Carabinieri fails, but I think that's rather unnecessary. And possibly counterproductive.
 
My concern with the Carabinieri alone is that I worry it won't stop an escalation if something happens. For example, consider the hypothetical based on the pattern of colonization Japan used against Korea and Manchuria:
  • To start off, rioting is as described.
  • Circa 100 Carabinieri are sent in, and slowly make progress (although fighting between Reewiinite soldiers and Japanese sailors continues).
  • Rumours start spreading about atrocities being committed by the Japanese sailors against locals - homes being broken into, women and children being attacked, etc. (because it's a foreign soldier vs local riot, of course that happens). This builds on pre-existing anti-Japanese sentiment (to quote an earlier post, "The Kismayo Treaty is a source of much tension and anger in the Reewiin political establishment.")
  • Thousands of angry Reewiinites begin to converge on downtown Kismayo seeking revenge. The small number of carabinieri are insufficient to keep the area contained, and even if there were enough, the stories they're hearing make them disinclined to stop the mob.
  • Several Japanese sailors are killed, along with dozens of Reewiinite civilians. The Japanese retreat to Chikuma, where an enterprising gun officer decides the best solution is to start shelling the docks (and the crowds packed onto them) with the 6" guns.
  • The situation further escalates with rioters attacking Japanese-owned businesses and so on.
  • The standoff with the sailors persists until Japan sends a force to "intervene to restore order"; following their involvement, the situation deescalates. However, as part of the resolution, Japan demands concessions, such as a significant indemnity paid to the families of the Japanese victims and the Japanese government, the "unification" of the Reewiin and Japanese military by dissolving the Carabinieri and reducing the Army to only a single battalion, and the establishment of permament Japanese military bases in Kismayo and Burgabo. Reewiin is a Japanese colony in all but name.
With the Army, we're gambling they don't do something stupid. With the Carabinieri alone, we're gambling they don't do something stupid AND the various other people in Kismayo don't do something stupid because 100 poorly-trained volunteers will not stop a city when it riots.
 
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You've made some good points and it looks the Carabinieri are outnumbered by the rioters already. But I think I am more concerned about overkill and making a diplomatic incident worse with force and am inclined to try the lower intensity approach.

Presumably even if we do not make another decision during this riot, the people on the ground can, and the government will not just ignore escalations forever. But if we want to make a middle ground.

[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
Potato Anarchy said:
You've made some good points and it looks the Carabinieri are outnumbered by the rioters already. But I think I am more concerned about overkill and making a diplomatic incident worse with force and am inclined to try the lower intensity approach.

Presumably even if we do not make another decision during this riot, the people on the ground can, and the government will not just ignore escalations forever. But if we want to make a middle ground.

[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That sounds good to me. There's still ways for it to go wrong but I want to avoid microing write-ins because that just invites QMs to misinterpret things more :p

[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
Damn, should've asked the Japanese sailors to take the Chikuma out to sea so they'd all sink :tongue:

C_Z said:
My concern with the Carabinieri alone is that I worry it won't stop an escalation if something happens. For example, consider the hypothetical based on the pattern of colonization Japan used against Korea and Manchuria:
  • To start off, rioting is as described.
  • Circa 100 Carabinieri are sent in, and slowly make progress (although fighting between Reewiinite soldiers and Japanese sailors continues).
  • Rumours start spreading about atrocities being committed by the Japanese sailors against locals - homes being broken into, women and children being attacked, etc. (because it's a foreign soldier vs local riot, of course that happens). This builds on pre-existing anti-Japanese sentiment (to quote an earlier post, "The Kismayo Treaty is a source of much tension and anger in the Reewiin political establishment.")
  • Thousands of angry Reewiinites begin to converge on downtown Kismayo seeking revenge. The small number of carabinieri are insufficient to keep the area contained, and even if there were enough, the stories they're hearing make them disinclined to stop the mob.
  • Several Japanese sailors are killed, along with dozens of Reewiinite civilians. The Japanese retreat to Chikuma, where an enterprising gun officer decides the best solution is to start shelling the docks (and the crowds packed onto them) with the 6" guns.
  • The situation further escalates with rioters attacking Japanese-owned businesses and so on.
  • The standoff with the sailors persists until Japan sends a force to "intervene to restore order"; following their involvement, the situation deescalates. However, as part of the resolution, Japan demands concessions, such as a significant indemnity paid to the families of the Japanese victims and the Japanese government, the "unification" of the Reewiin and Japanese military by dissolving the Carabinieri and reducing the Army to only a single battalion, and the establishment of permament Japanese military bases in Kismayo and Burgabo. Reewiin is a Japanese colony in all but name.
With the Army, we're gambling they don't do something stupid. With the Carabinieri alone, we're gambling they don't do something stupid AND the various other people in Kismayo don't do something stupid because 100 poorly-trained volunteers will not stop a city when it riots.
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Click to shrink...
Well, that's a fucking game-over horror story right there.

[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
KlavoHunter said:
Damn, should've asked the Japanese sailors to take the Chikuma out to sea so they'd all sink :tongue:


Well, that's a fucking game-over horror story right there.

[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, I may have spooked myself a bit while reading up on the annexation of Korea while writing it (lumped in with a half-remembered version of the General Sherman incident) combined with the fearposting elsewhere. Chances are it won't be nearly that bad if things go wrong :D
 
Silversun17 said:
What fire fighting gear does the captial have? Could we fire hose the rioters?
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I imagine that since we probably don't have extensive plumbing networks, firefighting is a combination of bucket brigades, hand or (if you're very rich) a diesel pump on a man or horse-drawn cart with hoses, and people with hooks, saws, and other equipment for pulling down burning structures or adjacent structures to create firebreaks.

Although a lot of our buildings are probably mud, brick, or some kind of stone so fire isn't as huge a threat as it could be.

Also, to be fair, @C_Z is describing like the perfect storm worst-case scenario but it's worth considering anyway.

[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
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[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
[X] Send in a carabinieri unit to quell the fighting.
-[X] Additionally, have the 1st Regiment travel to just outside Kismayo to be prepared for further escalations, but do not enter the city unless normal Carabinieri efforts have failed.
 
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