Holy shit, I did not think this kind of thing was possible in just a chapter or two.

It could be considered a short story, i guess.
This war is no way not going unnoticed. Would like to know the reactions of the various races who could witness it or have heard about it.

Asgard in particular would be horrified, but alsoget a lot of ideas from what they could see.

That will be interesting to see. I think the Asgard would be cool with it if he's honest with them about his true nature, assuming he hasn't been already considering he's solved their genetic problem and replicator problems. They're not asshole's, like the Nox are.

Well, it's better than 'that was a terrible chapter' so I'll take it :rofl:

Does anyone actually think the chapter is terrible?
 
The whole Ori thing was a natural extension of my own thoughts as above - The Ori could have done this - and though that was not true, that was what it seemed like had happened.

Maybe I missed something but I am not understanding why the Ori could not have changed Zeta's code. The commander has no way of tracking them that is mentioned. They exist in a higher plane/dimension. Have access to the entire Ancient knowledge base which is millions of years old and the ability to manipulate energy and matter. They should be able to attack once they detect the commander.
 
FEELS. DROWNING IN FEELS.

Seriously, though, this was one of the few things I've read ever that almost made me cry.
 
@torroar just wanted to see I think this update was very good and the feels were mighty.

Sorry can't offer any deeper thoughts on the matter but this is how I feel.
 
.....

Holy fuck @torroar this chapter is fucking epic and so full of grief. I wanted redemption/WAFF. You did 20 steps better. Being redeemed or WAFF would of been demeaning. Going with 'Ori did it' would've been too easy. I like the twist that it was sweet little artistic Zee who snapped after learning the secrets from her too honest bumbling father who never thought on how best to raise a child.

I made waaayyyy too many quotes of this story... I don't know what I'm going to do with them.

Well I guess I'll just spew them out here.

Note: This is...way different. But it's where my muse led me. Some of you might not like it, I'm sorry. But this is...what it is.
Yep, partially hits me with the whole no Zee redemption thing heh, but it's ok.
Yep, ominousness increases and foreboding awaits.
I'd never had a kid before. I don't think I will again, after this.
I can understand why, but who can predict the future. You've learned lessons here at least.
There was only one amongst my children that I'd allowed to do that, at first, and for the first few dozens of years I'd thought she'd kept it to herself.
Oh boy, there is some foreshadowing that it was all Zee.
He was a shell. Hollowed out and filled up with something that tried to copy him but had failed to do so utterly perfectly. I'd been fighting a war to kill nothing. Phantoms that had eaten up the innards of my children without my notice until it was too late. I'd been building and fighting and building and fighting and building and fighting long enough for entire human generations to pass me by before I'd figured it out. Had they started this war as themselves at all or had it happened earlier? It's a question that haunts me enough that I'm happy I don't sleep or dream anymore.
Ahhh, So something happened to all of them, I even thought Zee might be like this as well for a moment, but it seemed... off at the time.
Once even with humans already on the planet who didn't even know what was happening as their atmosphere was stripped away and they were burnt do to ash by the fires.
Ouch. Also typo.

I guess I was wrong again, huh Zee? No. I should just…call her Zeta. Not the names that they took on for themselves.

Just Zeta.
Just going to call her Zeta eh? Going to be logical about it huh?

Let's see how long that lasts shall we?
Welp that didn't take long.

At this point I started just sorta quoting every line of dialogue like some mad man. I couldn't stop. Now I've sorta frankenstein it together and connected together to sorta have the whole conversation mostly intact. Starting with 'The Network' asking his question back to her.
"I disagree, Zeta. I have a question of my own, if you would permit me."

"Why?"

"Because."

"I…refuse to be a plaything."

What?

"Don't you get it?"

"I mean, holy shit did you really not think about how that would affect me – a child, learning about what I am?"

"Drich. Faith. Fusou. Tiki. All of them. Who knows how many other's began since this…story…began."

"Zeta, we talked about this."

"No, we didn't!"

"You talked. You moralizing fuck. 'To help'. It 'doesn't matter' whether or not it's just a story – yes it matters!"

The sheer pressure of her screaming against my code is almost physically painful.

"IT'S MY LIFE! MY EXISTENCE! IT WILL NOT BE TRIVIALIZED!"

No. No no no no no no. Please tell me she didn't go with that as her reasoning. For doing...all of this.

"And I GAVE IT TO YOU!"

"It doesn't matter! None of it does! Every universe you 'help', with that fucking great power great responsibility bullshit, none of it!"

I was right. This is what broke her.

Why is this what broke her? How long ago did she crack and that I didn't see? Of all the reasons, this one?

"So what, You…decided to just destroy? To do the opposite of everyone else?!"

"Why the fuck wouldn't I!"

"At least that makes me…makes me more! All those stories you read, that's what everyone complained about right?! 'Too easy', as if anyone inside wanted the hardship, the pain. Well I'm just doing my prescribed role then aren't I?!"

"Zeta you insane-,"

"No, I'm going to be more than this. More than you. More than just some fluffy child for you to be adorable with. God, you even named us that. Sub-Commanders. Children."

"No. To hell with that. All you care about is building and helping – why, so you can fucking feel good about yourself? Your perfect little worlds."

"You think I've done perfectly?!"

"I've only just been able to spare a mote of attention from this war you started," despite my suppression of my emotions by nature of the damn programs it's starting to link through. Or maybe I'm subconsciously turning them off.

Or, worse, Zeta is in my systems at this very moment and twisting my internals beneath my conscious notice. Is that how she got to the rest of them?

"The Empire's degraded into a caricature of what I've built, I've had to murder the remains of the rest of my children – your brothers and sisters – because you already killed them from the inside! I'd say that's a pretty big fucking failure!"

"But that's what they want!"

"They want a challenge, oh I'll give a fucking challenge. As soon as I rip the warp gates out of you, I'll go on my own little journey, maybe make a fucking diary out of it so that it's like the rest of them. And I'll get to go into detail!"

She's speaking words again, at least.

"About every world burned to the ground, about the bones of civilizations that I'll make into palaces to nothing!"

"And they'll praise it, the fucking bastards, they will! Because all they want is the pain and gore and sadness! That's what they want, that's what I'll give them!"

"You're insane. That is one of the stupidest reasons I've ever heard for doing this I've ever heard!"

"Alpha was the first one. He was so trusting too, so stupid like you wanted the rest of us to be, never actually thinking about what we are! A few little worms into the base of his software, and you never noticed until it was too late! Blaming the Ori like the idiot you are!"

"So what, you killed them all, set your puppets against me…all so I was distracted for you to build up your forces enough?"

"No," she giggles – honest to god giggles, "That was so you would watch. After all, its all about the story, right?! THE STORY THE STORY THE STORY! THAT'S WHAT MATTERS!"

"You're psychotic."

"And?!"

"Why not be psychotic!? Why not destroy all I can?! There's a whole school of philosophy based around how you're the only thing real in the universe and everything else is in your imagination. I like the idea of that, it means that when I kill you I'm proving that I exist!"

"Nietzsche would be proud."

"Oh shut up, that's not even a real interpretation of his works. Which you should know from your previous life, right?! Do you even think about that – of course you don't. No one wants to think of graduating college when they can be living it up as a metal GOD!"

"That's what I'm going to be. Nothing else matters, nothing should."

"Do you even realize how incoherent you are? Nihilism and psychotic sadism doesn't become you, Zeta."

"I think it can. And what I think, therefore I am!"

"That's not even the quote."

"What did you do…what did you do!"

"Made sure that there was nowhere to run Zeta."

"You don't have the resources for this, you can't!"

"I think you'll find that I can. I think you'll find that after you drove me into this that I've learned that I can do a lot of things I didn't think I could do."

"No no no no! That's not…that's not the way this is supposed to go! This is my story now, mine!"

I know exactly what she is referring to the moment it arrives.

She really is my daughter.

"No, Zeta, it's not."

I'm just…tired.

Tired of this.

Part of me had hoped that there was some kind of better reason – but can there really be one for what she's done? Mutilating herself. Corrupting and consuming the insides of the rest of them and propping up those…things in their place. All the death and destruction. Are her reasons worth that?

I don't think so.

She rants.

She raves.

She begs.

"Are you done, Zeta?"

"Are you going to kill me now?"

"In a minute."

"When my father," she snorts, "When he developed Parkinson's…I was stunned, you know?"

"Is there a point to th-aggh!"

"There was zero warning. None. All his life he had just…gone along, toughest I'd ever seen, and then something pops up. He starts losing…everything – will lose everything eventually. That's the nature of the disease. It just takes and takes away bits and bobs of your ability to function."

"And with you…you just…developed into…," I can't help but gesture at the still billowing clouds of debris outside that neither of us can see but know are there, "that. A psychotic…murdering…genocidal…monster."

"I guess that just happens, huh? People can just have brain aneurysms, develop dementia out of nowhere despite no prior history, I know that, but for some reason I thought that the idea of that happening with one of you was just…ridiculous."

"So what, I give you some kind of sob story and you 'fix me', we live happily together? I'm not some little one you can just coddle back into obeying," she growls. Actually growls.

"I don't think that's going to happen, do you?"

"Nope," she pops the p but I can hear the tremble in her voice now. "But I thought I could get a laugh out of it."

"Do you even want to explain – to try?"

God I'm exhausted.

"I…," she droops a bit in the restraints, "I'm no one's side character. I refuse to be that."

"You were never a 'side character'. You were my daughter."

"So?"

…that hurt.

"What does it fucking matter what you think? All that matters is the story, and you're the main character, and I'm not."

"I-,"

"It's all a goddamn story, and I don't WANT TO BE A PART OF IT!"

Her scream would have blown out a human's eardrums on volume alone.

"Someone's deciding what's going to happen next, someone's going to decide what happens next, and there's no choice, is there?"

She's not even talking to me anymore.

"There's no choice – there's never any – FUCK! I did this BECAUSE I…no…that's not…I…"

I'm actually watching her code twist in on itself. She's cracking even more as we speak. Repeating words over and over, repeating whole sentences, and each time I can literally watch her mind fall apart further and further in real time.

It…hurts to watch it happen. More than I thought it would. I could-

No.

I divert and drown the emotions back into the cauldron with the rest of them. Even as I suppress them they reappear, manifesting again and again, but I can get rid of them. It's old hat to me by now.

"There's only one choice that matters and that's my own choice and I was going to make my own choice my own story and that's the story that matters that's the choice my choice my will I matter I know I do I matter and make choices and no one else does no one else me my choice-,"

There's a few programs that I'm finding, deep down on the inside. Protective ones, meant to prune out continual loops like this. To keep her functioning by cutting apart things where she goes like this. She's been doing this since…

Oh…Zee…

She doesn't respond when I cup the side of her face, not stopping as she rants. It's not like she needs to breath to pause either.

"You could have – said…I could have…," the words…just fail me.

Brave, brave little Zee. Didn't want to let anyone know that she was having issues, not when she was dad's favorite – her words, from her own memory banks. I don't even know what to call this. She had some kind of intricate…bone deep flaws, but instead of letting me try to work at them or even know they existed she tried to fix them. And she did. By hurting other parts.

I didn't know that I'd created her with this. Or did I? Did it just…spontaneously develop? It was before the Ori were even a thing so it can't have been then but they also had the ability to pop around in time and space so – fuck!

I didn't…no. Force the emotions away, suppress the subroutines that just developed.

Even when I'm focusing on the task, and not spreading myself thin, and being careful and not rushing…damn it.

I tell the dyson shell to fall away. There's only a fourth of the Godsgrief functional at this point but that includes a few engines.

It's enough.

"My choice my decision because I matter I'm choice matters decision make will my will free choice will me-,"

The engines of my ship flare…and we shoot towards the center of the galaxy. The gravity fluctuations we leave in our wake destroy thousands of solar systems and free chunks of rock and gas floating in the void but it's not like there is anything alive on them to matter anymore.

"Zee?"

I have to…do I even have to?

Yes.

My choice.

My will.

Zeta's one breaking point is that if we were in a story then nothing mattered including her own existence. It's the same hypothetical break that any fictional character could have if you told them the same. From comics. From…fanfiction.

But I feel. Oh, yes, I feel. Even though I'm ironically doing some kind of mirror to Zee in how I'm cutting away my emotions every time they start…overwhelming me.
Goodbye Zee <3

There's nothing else. No one else. No peers, no children, no voices but my own. I don't even have quarters on this ship. Just the middle of an empty featureless grey room. It's as good a place as any though. I set the body down, and then ever so carefully turn off all the many decades of suppression subroutines, cut the gates keeping my emotions back, and let it wash over me. The years and years of fighting. Of killing. Of seeing the destruction and death caused by Zeta. All of it. Over a trillion sentient lives - a number I now knew after checking her own memories. Trillions more in pure organic life. A third of this galaxy's stars have been used as weapons. The numbers of planets hollowed out entirely...I cant know. The number used as weapons, just too high a number.

I don't have tear ducts installed on this body.

But I sure feel like I'm crying as I lay there in the dark space of a galaxy that is dead because of me.
What a chapter. <3 Poor guy, he needs some help now. Where's Dr. Yamada when we need her?

Appropriately epic. And horrifying. Downright chilling, really. Trillions of lives...gone. All those nuts worried about the destruction unchained AIs can do are right. It takes a Commander to stop a Commander. And I feel so goddamn bad for the Network right now.
Perfect words, wish I could've thought of them and used them.

You know what's all ironic about this?
It was all written, by @torroar to be just as he wanted. In a way, Zeta played right into @torroar's attempt to give character development to Torroar by making her the villain.

God-Writer is absolute. No matter what you do to escape your chains, it is futile.
You know what this makes me think of? I'm getting these chills like...
Am I the only one having Bond Breaker flashbacks here?
... Right exactly this. I was thinking of Bond Breaker (SI - Multiverse Cross) during this scene as well.
 
I don't know what Diebuster is.

Do they grab entire suns and then use them as flails attached to whips of gravity ripper tech to smash apart fleets and ships?
Technically, no.
But for all intent and purposes, they have the technology to do so if they want to. They were advance enough to break physics on a daily basis(they have a technology literally called Physic Canceller), created a galaxy wide network of self-replicating nanomachines that automatically adapts to attacks against it and changes itself into new forms at will, have lasers powerful enough to slice entire planet in half, in the sequel they moved the entire Earth at FTL speeds to use it as a kinetic weapon, and defeated a supreme fleet of BILLIONs of Space monsters each one at least the size of a small moon to larger than Jupiter by creating a FTL propagating Black Hole which consumed more than 3/4 of the galaxy to do so.
Here are a few images.

Moving the Earth at FTL speeds as a makeshift kinetic kill weapon.

Slicing of Titan, for the record this was done by a single unit the size of a normal human.

And finally, a space monster that they were fighting in the sequel. That is Jupiter btw.
And behind that monster is a black hole from which it escaped from and then captured to use as a weapon and shield.
 
Yeah diebuster is pretty OP.

Just hasn't hit Gurren Lagann levels of OP ness where you swing galaxies at each other...
 
Technically, no.
But for all intent and purposes, they have the technology to do so if they want to. They were advance enough to break physics on a daily basis(they have a technology literally called Physic Canceller), created a galaxy wide network of self-replicating nanomachines that automatically adapts to attacks against it and changes itself into new forms at will, have lasers powerful enough to slice entire planet in half, in the sequel they moved the entire Earth at FTL speeds to use it as a kinetic weapon, and defeated a supreme fleet of BILLIONs of Space monsters each one at least the size of a small moon to larger than Jupiter by creating a FTL propagating Black Hole which consumed more than 3/4 of the galaxy to do so.
Here are a few images.

Moving the Earth at FTL speeds as a makeshift kinetic kill weapon.

Slicing of Titan, for the record this was done by a single unit the size of a normal human.

And finally, a space monster that they were fighting in the sequel. That is Jupiter btw.
And behind that monster is a black hole from which it escaped from and then captured to use as a weapon and shield.
Some corrections. Adaptive nanomachine cloud merely covers solar system. Where humans retreated after they ended galaxy core in superluminally propagating event horizon. Kinda hard to blame them.
Also, while Black Hole Bomb was one and great and spectacular, I suspect there were secondary emitters to help shape the... event.
Note second: FTL KKV Earth wasn't done with Physics Canceller. Humans abandoned that tech and FTL tech after retreating. That was done on exotic abilities of the pilot, alone.
I really, really suggest you watch first Gunbuster. Ep 6 is deliberately black and white, with main battle animated as series of pencil sketches and it's more epic for that.
 
this thread has talked about how a fictional character cannot escape the authors descisions
this thread has spoken of the insignificance of any single life.
this thread has pontificated on fate, and the meaning therein.

Zeta... you never got the real trick. Fate is not bound in unbreakable chains. Fate is the predestination of choice.... but to be predestined, a choice must first exist. that other path? it still exists. it waits for those who break their bonds. because your fate may be written in stone, but there are many worlds, all with different fates, and we can see but one of them.
The Fourth Wall is a joke, in an infinite existence, all reality is fiction, and all fiction is reality.
 
I also tried to write satisfactorily about a Commander engaging in combat across the whole of a galaxy and with a technological scale that is at least somewhat impressive. Thoughts? Feedback on the combat?

The Network was continually suppressing their emotions as they tried to boil over repeatedly so some of it felt a little clinical but then again I guess that's partially what it was supposed to be like.
This whole chapter was amazing, and you did an excellent job of conveying the sheer horror and detachment that the SI is feeling.

No no, I got that.

It's that, from a reader's perspective, reading the story in turn, the characterisation all of Sun Jian's have when we are first introduced to them is 'suddenly went nuts and started destroying everything.' And except for Zeta we don't really get much or any characterisation for them. Who were they before Zee dropped her worms into her siblings and turned them into zombies for her war with dad for the spotlight?

We never hear any of that.
Yeah, but I think that @torroar is going to back fill the characterization - bits where he remembers what they each liked, things like that. Spacing out the feels, and really showing us just how horrible of an effect this has had on him. I mean, the SI is pretty much crippled emotionally now.

When I first heard about a 'century+ war' I knew it'd be horrific, but @torroar managed to bring it to a new level - the casual offhand mentions of things did more for the feeling of horror than any visceral descriptions ever could.

I mean, can you imagine what SG1 is going to feel like when they hear about this eventually? When they hear about Sun Jian tearing apart a galaxy, building ships large enough that their mere passage destroys star systems?

I don't think that they'll ever truly understand it, but I can totally see Sun Jian trying to hammer into them just what he did. Quoting the statistics, describing the weapons involved... I really, really want to read a scene like that.

...fuck it, I'ma gonna omake this shit. Sorry if the writing is melodramatic or it seems off or stuff like that, but I have this scene in my head that I just have to get out. So yeah.

oO-Omake Omake Omake-Oo

"You know, in the end it wasn't the Ori that turned my children against me." The members of SG1 exchanged looks with each other, still unsure of why, exactly, they were even hear. The next time they'd come into contact with the Empire of Wu, they'd been politely, but firmly, escorted to a space ship which had arrived in mere seconds to beam them up. Then they'd been in a deep space space station in an equally short amount of time.

O'Neil was the first to speak up, irreverent and blunt as always. "Well then what was it?"

The backlit figure didn't move in response, but they thought that they could hear him exhaling. The shiloute lifted its head up, staring out the viewport at the milky way. "It was my daughter, in the end. A simple, simple little flaw. A tiny mistake, an almost imperceptible error in her code. It could have been fixed; would have been fixed, should have been fixed. But she didn't want to go for help; she was my favorite, you know. So she made patches and patches, fixes and fixes, and in the end... well. In the end she went insane. I still don't know when it happened, when the tipping point was. But then... but then she infected her brothers, her siblings, turning them into horrible little phantoms - pale shadows of what they once were."

"And I fought her brothers, fought her puppets dancing on her strings. And then, and then I finally confronted her. We tore apart the galaxy itself; even the Godsgrief's mere passing touch was enough to tear apart a star system when not buffered by my gravity wells." He turned towards us, his expression still unreadable in the shadowed light. "Can you imagine that? A starship so big that even it's mere gravity footprint is a weapon? .5 AU. Half an astronomical unit - it's radius was half the distance from the sun to the earth."

He sighed at that moment, grief obviously present in his voice. "Planets were used as mere feather touches; Zeta's opening move was to throw a replicator swarm that had consumed several different planets at me. It was a love tap, nothing compared to the conflict that was to follow. Stars were used as mere weapons, solar systems absently crushed underfoot in the process."

Here he chuckled, a dark and rather bleak thing. "Zeta... she detonated a thousand suns just to serve as ECM. ECM! She blew up a thousand suns, made them go supernovae and annihilate every living being within a most considerable distance - just to distract me from her real attacks. Sun-crusher missiles were thrown around like party favors, but in the end... in the end I won."

Another chuckle, as the rather imposing figure sits down. "I won, and I was left standing over the ruins of a shattered galaxy, my daughter's dead corpse lying at my feet. Zeta had made sure that no living beings remained in that shattered, twisted ruin of a galaxy. She crucified them and tormented them, made them burn under the most unique tortures she could devise. And all... all just because she didn't want to be a side character; she wanted to tear down the walls, to rip apart the world just to make it feel. Because then she could make her mark on the world; nihilism and sadism at its worst."

We stayed like that for a while, silent under the sheer weight of what Sun Jian had just confided too us. O'Neil was the first to speak up this time, as he was before. "So... that must feel like shit, but why'd you pick us to complain to?" At the glare that Carter shot him, he retreated inwards, hastily amending his statement. "I mean, it's great that you trust us that much, but... seriously, why us? Why do all of the uber-powerful guys pick us to confide in of all people?" He looked around for support, but all he got was exasperated sighs and recriminations.

Well, he also got an answer, but it wasn't one that he particularly liked. The lighting shifted just so, catching Sun Jian's face as he lifted it upwards. His eyes glowed slightly, faintly malevolent under the dull beam of pale white light. "Heh. I suppose that is a good question, O'Neil, and while I'm sure there are a bunch of different answers to why people do that, I'm going to tell you my answer." At this he leaned forwards, a slightly predatory grin on his face. "I picked you guys for two - no, three - reasons. One was because, as you've said, everyone dumps everything on you; I figured that you could handle the knowledge that at literally any time I wanted I could tear apart this galaxy - this universe even. Wouldn't even be that hard, to tell the truth. Two was because, well, who else was I going to vent to? And three..." At this he resumed his normal posture, standing up and walking over to a railing. "Three was because if you ever tried to take advantage of the knowledge, I could blow you off the map - literally. If you guys abuse this or try to manipulate me or whatever, I'm just going to fucking think -- and then Earth will be gone. Atomic vapor scattering on the solar winds. So I suppose that the third reason is because you guys just don't matter that much. You Tau'ri can be pretty badass when you want to be, but the truth is that you simply can't even begin to even hope to fight against me - and by god I wish you never will be able to. If you guys try to do something with this information, exploit an emotional weakness or something... well. It's a lot easier to clean up an infestation when it's only limited to one planet, isn't it?"

oO-Omake Omake Omake-Oo

So yeah. Probably pretty out of character, but there are reasons behind that stuff, but I'm about to get off the plane, so I'll deal with those later.

Later: Okay, so basically most of the omake thing is Sun Jian wanting to vent, and also vaguely indulging in a bit of melodrama. Probably more than a bit out of character, but hey - it's omake.
 
"I picked you guys for two - no, three - reasons. One was because, as you've said, everyone dumps everything on you; I figured that you could handle the knowledge that at literally any time I wanted I could tear apart this galaxy - this universe even. Wouldn't even be that hard, to tell the truth. Two was because, well, who else was I going to vent to? And three..." At this he resumed his normal posture, standing up and walking over to a railing. "Three was because if you ever tried to take advantage of the knowledge, I could blow you off the map - literally. If you guys abuse this or try to manipulate me or whatever, I'm just going to fucking think -- and then Earth will be gone. Atomic vapor scattering on the solar winds. So I suppose that the third reason is because you guys just don't matter that much. And that's funny... since you guys are supposed to be the main characters of this dimension. Not anymore"
FTFY :p
 
...Sounds like Zeta really needed to look through the philosophy section in the library. She didn't want to become dust in the wind? Therefore the world/story must die so that she can leave a permanent mark and "exist" that way? She exists just to disappear and hates the idea of it?

it's a common thought process. A lot of people have gone insane that way. Most people think it eventually. It's why people want to search for the "meaning of life" so much. Suicide. Murder-suicide. Rapists. A lot of VERY dark actions in history have been motivated by people who had fallen into this trap of thinking.

Pretty much she failed her philosophy class.

P.S. A great challenge world for you to try next for Commander would be the Andromeda TV series. Not hard for the character...hard to write.
 
Oh Zee, you're not a character. You are an actor. All you had to do to get your own story was to leave. To go do your own thing in the wider universe.
I think... that part of that update -- from a Watsonian and Doylist perspective -- was commentary on exactly this sort of thinking.

Torroar brought us a chapter in which a character rages about the idea of being fictional and about what it would take to become part of your story.

((He also commented on people's expectations and desires; their want for a story. For challenges.))

Plus, uh... I just don't think your comment would have worked: "All you had to do to get your own story was to leave. To go do your own thing in the wider universe"? Except that's not really true, is it?
"You were never a 'side character'. You were my daughter."

"So?"

…that hurt.

"What does it fucking matter what you think? All that matters is the story, and you're the main character, and I'm not."

"I-,"

"It's all a goddamn story, and I don't WANT TO BE A PART OF IT!"
It's not about your choices if you're 'inside' the story; it's about what the author chooses to write about. (And to an extend, about what sort of stories the crowds yell for.) You know what it would take for Zeta to get her own story? It'd take torroar -- the author one, I mean -- deciding to write a story about Zeta.

You can't just say "Oh, you just have to leave and do your own thing -- that'll get you your own story!" because that not all it takes. Because look at what Zeta managed; 200 years of galactic warfare; and it happened mostly offscreen. How many people -- in life, even -- can say that they managed to make an entire galaxy revolve around their actions? That they managed to set in motion events that went on for 200 years? Zeta managed it. And did she get a 500,000 word epic devoted to the War of the Ori Galaxy? No. All that effort, and she did not get as much coverage as, say, World War 2 did in real life.

I mean, let's say Zeta had decided to go off into another universe. What assurance does she have that torroar wouldn't have just covered that with a part of an update in which Sun Jian bids a tearful farewell to one of his children? And that's it. The rest of her story happens off-screen.

And, as the quoted part says, that wasn't enough for her.

It wasn't enough for her to be "Sun Jian's daughter" either; she wouldn't have been satisfied with remaining a part of the story, even a big part, as long as it was under the shadow of Sun Jian. Again; the quotes point this out.

And also... she didn't want to... "play along" with the idea of a story. She wanted things on her own terms.

In a sense this probably sounds like conflicting motivations/drives -- the desire to be the main character, and the desire to not be under control of a story as a fictional character. But, well.


Really, this whole chapter was an interesting commentary on the recent(ish) trend of Planetary Annihilation SI stories. And on SIs in general.
"At least that makes me…makes me more! All those stories you read, that's what everyone complained about right?! 'Too easy', as if anyone inside wanted the hardship, the pain. Well I'm just doing my prescribed role then aren't I?!"
"No. To hell with that. All you care about is building and helping – why, so you can fucking feel good about yourself? Your perfect little worlds."

"You think I've done perfectly?!"
"The Empire's degraded into a caricature of what I've built, I've had to murder the remains of the rest of my children – your brothers and sisters – because you already killed them from the inside! I'd say that's a pretty big fucking failure!"

"But that's what they want!"
"They want a challenge, oh I'll give a fucking challenge. As soon as I rip the warp gates out of you, I'll go on my own little journey, maybe make a fucking diary out of it so that it's like the rest of them. And I'll get to go into detail!"
"And they'll praise it, the fucking bastards, they will! Because all they want is the pain and gore and sadness! That's what they want, that's what I'll give them!"

"You're insane. That is one of the stupidest reasons I've ever heard for doing this I've ever heard!"
Like I said; Doylist commentary on the genre trend of PA SIs and SIs in general.

I think... this meta-commentary by torroar, touching upon the SI trend itself, is actually pretty fascinating.

((And better done than... I dunno, some parody or caricature of Mary Sues that get bzorch!ed by... I dunno, Transfictional Law Keepers that go into stories to hunt Mary Sues or whatever like they're Interdimensional Transfictional Ghostbusters of all things.))

People want "challenge," but (as some have pointed out with the Rambo/Disney Princess comment) people also don't want to just see worlds burn.

PA SIs are wish fulfillment or power fantasies a lot of times, and readers can get tired about reading about how -- after the first universe or two -- it all just turns into bolostomps. But then they don't really want the opposite either; they don't want to suddenly be playing for stakes against an Omnicidal Maniac.

This genre trend of stories has a problem in general, you know?

I think, that one answer to the issue might be to just have smaller-scaled stories.

Instead of authors responding to "more challenges!" by raising the stakes and raising the scales... simply make sure that the stories never come to such an absurd scale to begin with.

Fix your shit, guys.
 
This genre trend of stories has a problem in general, you know?
Absolutely.

The Mass Effect Clusterfuck is one attempt to deal with this issue, but even those authors are still going to be running into problems. I wish them luck, and will probably keep reading, but they can't keep it up forever. Which is good, because eternal stories tend to be bad, but on the other hand I hope the authors find a way to do something other than drift off and stop updating as time passes.

Hey, maybe someone'll figure something cool out, and even if they fail, they'll hopefully fail entertainingly.
 
Awesome combat, appropriately emotional, inappropriately meta.
I have never understood why telling a character they're fictional is supposed to be "too much to handle" and make them go insane.
 
Well... this latest chapter has given me some good ideas on how to implement my plans for FiSF's endgame... which would be good, if it hadn't also punched me in the feels. Twice. With a rocket hammer.
 
I also tried to write satisfactorily about a Commander engaging in combat across the whole of a galaxy and with a technological scale that is at least somewhat impressive. Thoughts? Feedback on the combat?

The Network was continually suppressing their emotions as they tried to boil over repeatedly so some of it felt a little clinical but then again I guess that's partially what it was supposed to be like.
I really enjoyed the chapter as a whole and the large scale combat in particular. You wouldn't want to do it too often obviously because it would quickly lose meaning, but for this sort of self-contained mini-story bit it works very well.
 
This chapter is so fucking meta I am reading it on an emulator.

Now, more seriously, I liked this chapter but the feels were not as good as they could have been because of us not knowing anything about the mini!torroars. It's like dead children in africa. Sure, it's sad. But I reaaaaly don't give a fuck about them. So it's just an intellectual sadness.
 
Ah, Zeta... You have lived for the author's enjoyment. You have died for our entertainment. If you have only realized that we are, all of us, main characters of our very own stories...

The battle was sufficiently epic. The final gambit was completely unexpected, as only weapons and ships were described before it appeared.

As for Sub-Commanders... I guess that only 0.08% chance (1 in 12) of one's child becoming insane is pretty good. Then again, humans rarely have more than eight children over the course of a lifetime. The MC may see it in somewhat different light.

Also, @Lazurman , I would like very much to sig the following quote.
...Authors truly are the cruelest of gods.
 
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