Not at all, I just don't see how there would be time for "atrocities" if all planets are hit simultaneously with overwhelming force, arriving under (personal) cloaks, like a squad of assasin droids for each Jaffa, and a battleship for each death glider.

It didn't sound like the situation involved standing orders to detonate suicide nukes at the first sign of trouble - even without considering what SG-1 has seen. Did Ra's forces massacre all of his slaves after he was killed?

And that's the problem.

You're trying to fit the Empire into a tiny little SG-1 shaped box.

No.

This is an Empire that openly decries the Goa'uld culture, and when capturing a world puts extensive effort to undo generations of cultural conditioning and it was working. They were levering propaganda against them in surprisingly effective measures. You know what that does?

It leads to revolts because the people are being shown that the Goa'uld suck wang and that there is another force out there capable of beating them.

Revolts lead to Goa'uld repressing those revolts.

That, combined with the Emperor focusing on the people themselves - saving them from the Goa'uld and having that be his open public motive - led to that great and wonderful thing = spite. Angry, furious spite. So yeah they started burning worlds, and yeah they now have standing orders for it.

Oh, sure, the Empire would win that fight. Of course they'd overwhelm them at the end of that like you seem to want. But not before too many Goa'uld vessels under now Standing Orders from their Gods burned the worlds below with their absolutely effective planetary bombardment weaponry.

Because you know how many worlds is too many?

One.

And it would be more than one.

Not to mention the fact that the Empire was also busy fighting a bunch of other threats like say Replicators and Wraith and Ori - which doesn't even get into the intense amount of work it takes at all to reverse all the psychological damage that the Goa'uld inflicted on all those under the whip.

So yeah. You are exactly wrong. There now are standing orders for massacring. Because the Empire pushed too hard, and too fast, and was too obvious about its intentions. The Emperor fucked up.

The Empire of Wu is fucked up in plenty of ways.

Guess what!

Shit ain't fixed with a snap of fingers here.
 
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...I'm forced to realize that in my own story, I don't actually have an end goal for the Stargate universe. Kick ass, make designs, but what do I do with the people afterwards? I honestly don't know, or if I'd even put in the effort.

Having come to that realization, I have to give Torroar massive kudos for actually thinking of such a thing, and showing the consequences of such a decision.

cause we all know the show tried to show a little of that, and kinda failed. And that was with the steady dissolving of the Goauld empire over years, not the waves of sudden obliteration a commander is capable of. Damn, that civil strife...
 
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The Network, I think, has been directly and indirectly responsible for about half a billion civilian deaths at this point.

Causing the Shadow Banking War outright set the Underworld of the Star Wars Galaxy aflame. An underworld that stretched everywhere and had its fingers in almost every aspect of society. Hundreds and hundreds of planets had ridiculous amounts of death happen in the alleyways and ghettos where the law did not tread as gangs tore each other apart.

His fight against the Empire - and his aiding the Rebellion - saw even more worlds than in 'canon' be fought over openly than would have otherwise. Not to mention the amounts of slaves and workers that were worked literally to death trying to build up more super ships and weapons for the Empire.

He took over a hundred worlds from the Goa'uld, that doesn't even cover what other worlds he's taken/colonized that weren't under Goa'uld control. And yet in doing so drove the Goa'uld to burning 20 worlds to deny him.

His attempt to pre-emptively take down the Ori and Wraith has resulted in those same Ascended Beings twisting his Sub Commander Children, and now there is a war covering an entire galaxy at a level of conflict that really is PA instead of SG. That includes everyone in that same galaxy.

But for his Goal?

The Tau'ri - humanity - was declared a Great Race. He's just trying to make that a reality...and has stumbled along the way. He isn't going for 40K style overwhelming Humanity In Control Of All. He just wants them to be able to really stand on their own, and thus far...well. Things are happening of course.
 
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Oh, sure, the Empire would win that fight. Of course they'd overwhelm them at the end of that like you seem to want. But not before too many Goa'uld vessels under now Standing Orders from their Gods burned the worlds below with their absolutely effective planetary bombardment weaponry.

I never suggested the Empire slogging on with a war, I suggested pulling back and building up for a few decades for an absolutely overwhelming strike.

The Emperor arrived five centuries ago and disappeared a century and a half ago. It just doesn't square with the kind of industry and force you were throwing around at the end of the star wars arc, that that wouldn't be time to set up a surprise attack with ridiculously overwhelming force and speed, and probably acceptable collateral damage.

And damn, your character thought killing a planet full of people themselves was an acceptable solution to realizing they gave away too many toys too quickly! That kind of sets a lower bound on what they could consider acceptable collateral damage for ending Goa'uld rule.

How are vessels in orbit supposed to bombard anything when you can build Terror-style cloaked star destroyers, if not worse? There is a reason I was thinking of nukes on the ground, then at least there's a question of infiltration. (There's also the question of how the Goa'uld can set up hair-trigger self destructs on all their colonies without losing planets from their own infighting)

Of course wiping out the Goa'uld forces would leave a bunch of cultures still messed up and needing tons of fixing. It's just hard to buy that non-ascended military threats remain.
 
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The Emperor arrived five centuries ago and disappeared a century and a half ago. It just doesn't square with the kind of industry and force you were throwing around at the end of the star wars arc, that that wouldn't be time to set up a surprise attack with ridiculously overwhelming force and speed, and probably acceptable collateral damage.
Unlimited industry or not, Sun Jian is still vastly limited by his crippling unit cap.

That and he's kinda busy waging a galactic scale war against other unrestricted(!) PA commanders a galaxy away.
And damn, your character thought killing a planet full of people thrmselves was an acceptable solution to realizing they gave away too many toys too quickly! That kind of sets a lower bound on what they could consider acceptable collateral damage for ending Goa'uld rule.
Are we reading the same story here? Because I am seriously doubting your reading comprehension.

Where the fuck did he say that destroying a world was an "Acceptable" collateral damage? What Torroar had said the even one world glassed is already way too much.

Theta is not Sun Jian. He had centuries to ponder all the fuckups he did back in the SW universe, and learned from all of it. Having 500 million civillian deaths attributed to your half-though decisions is NOT something he would be proud of. The Goa'uld glassing planets may mean they pulled the trigger, but Sun Jian would still be at fault for pushing them too far. His Empire may forgive him for the costs, whatever is left of the oppressed world might forgive him too, but would he be able to forgive himself?
How are vessels in orbit supposed to bombard anything when you can build Terror-style cloaked star destroyers, if not worse? There is a reason I was thinking of nukes on the ground, then at least there's a question of infiltration. (There's also the question of how the Goa'uld can set up hair-trigger self destructs on all their colonies without losing planets from their own infighting)
Again, are we reading the same story? The Goa'uld did not glass one planet, they destroyed TWENTY simultaneously. If he stopped the destruction of one planet, would he be able to stop the same from happening on the other 19 neighboring worlds?

If Orbital Bombardment and planetside nukes are out, there's still biological weapons, plagues, or the good old troops gunning down everyone else.
 
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Wut?
A race of godlike beings with reality warping abilities who draw power from worship doesn't really sound like 'commander' to me. Sounds more like Ori.
The Ori are dead. All that's left to fight were the subverted PA commanders.

Edit:
"As I've heard it told," Cao Cao said mildly, "His son, Alphan – a lesser intelligence and man, only ever making Sub Commander in the military – was driven insane by the Gods there. And though the Emperor slew those same Gods with a weapon made by another God…Alphan refused to be put down. He corrupted more of his brothers, Betai and others, and together – with full access to his technologies – they have…done terrible things. He fights a war against them even now."
 
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On one hand I agree that SI could pull an overwhelming force scenario on goa'uld even after them using scorched earth tactics. On the other with SI being unable to personally direct so many simultaneous strikes, that is likely to lead to some snakes high-tailing it, or some other screw ups which will end with more civilian casualties.
And by the way I don't see how glassing one planet of douchebags who went to town with SIs toys is different from losing one planet to goa'uld. both would have civilians on them nonetheless. The way I see it the question is how many worlds are gonna be lost in automated droid army attack on galactic scale empire and is that number acceptable? Apparently "not even one" for SI after he learned from his mistakes.
 
Unlimited industry or not, Sun Jian is still vastly limited by his crippling unit cap.

Are we reading the same story here? Because I am seriously doubting your reading comprehension.

It's not my reading comprehension that's the problem if you couldn't read this:

They were given basically droid fighter level brains, and wouldn't actually be under my direct control.

No need to take up slots in the unit cap here, no sir.

...

I had over ten thousand Hexagons floating along, accompanied by the USDs.

The unit cap doesn't prevent fielding huge fleets.

Where the fuck did he say that destroying a world was an "Acceptable" collateral damage? What Torroar had said the even one world glassed is already way too much.

We have no direct quotes from the emperor. What I said was that he killed a world.

"As Captain Sun so…loudly…spoke of, at first the Emperor freely granted his technologies and resources to the worlds he had liberated. A mistake, as we all tragically learned."

"Captain Sun said that 'one world was enough'," Daniel murmured.

...

"Some even took the Emperor to be some other Goa'uld and attempted to 'rise up' against him…with his own weapons."

...

"I'm assuming that that didn't go well," Jack quirked an eyebrow.

"Thus did the Emperor prove himself, unequivocally, to be no truly divine figure," Cao Cao's smile flickered and disappeared.

"Well that doesn't sound ominous or anything, eh Doktor Jackson?"

...

"The Emperor destroyed an entire world out of frustration," Cao Cao whispered.

Jack felt a sudden trickle of coldness along his spine.

...

"Thus," Cao Cao gestured to the air, "The Eyes came into being. The Emperor destroyed one world…and learned to firmlysuppress such things until they could be changed by time, education, new generations learning that the old ways were to be left behind. He held the capacity to obliterate every world that defied him and his wishes – yet he refused to do so. Luckily, after demonstrating the power under his control…another was not required."

"Bet Palpatine wished that worked for him, huh?"

Maybe you read that as a superlaser demonstration on an uninhabited planet, but I see a lot of hints that it was something worse.

Again, are we reading the same story? The Goa'uld did not glass one planet, they destroyed TWENTY simultaneously. If he stopped the destruction of one planet, would he be able to stop the same from happening on the other 19 neighboring worlds?

Are we? Dunno, are you reading a story where starting construction after ten months of accumulating infrastructure saw a ship the size of California finished in two months (with superlaser turrets and a cloak), and then a further week produced five "ultimate star destroyers" and nine thousand lesser battleships?

I wouldn't be mentioning decades or centuries if I thought ONLY twenty worlds would need to be hit simultaneously.

If Orbital Bombardment and planetside nukes are out, there's still biological weapons, plagues, or the good old troops gunning down everyone else.

A big bomb planetside is probably the best way to do a lot of damage quickly, and from a sealed bunker that even cloaked assasins might have trouble infiltrating (a naquadah bomb rather than a literal nuke might actually detonate even if smashed in an orbital strike).
 
On one hand I agree that SI could pull an overwhelming force scenario on goa'uld even after them using scorched earth tactics. On the other with SI being unable to personally direct so many simultaneous strikes, that is likely to lead to some snakes high-tailing it, or some other screw ups which will end with more civilian casualties.
And by the way I don't see how glassing one planet of douchebags who went to town with SIs toys is different from losing one planet to goa'uld. both would have civilians on them nonetheless. The way I see it the question is how many worlds are gonna be lost in automated droid army attack on galactic scale empire and is that number acceptable? Apparently "not even one" for SI after he learned from his mistakes.
I think its ultimately how the SI views "acceptable losses".

If he was less empathetic and viewed the destruction of the goa'uld as worth the cost of millions of people dead, then it would be worth it.
 
Couldn't he just use the Dakara device to turn all goa'uld into explosives? Or at least those on goa'uld worlds.
That'd kill the jaffa as well, due to their prim'ta.
 
Couldn't he just use the Dakara device to turn all goa'uld into explosives? Or at least those on goa'uld worlds.
That'd kill the jaffa as well, due to their prim'ta.

...wut.

No, seriously, what?
I'm pretty sure that while it can be used to eliminate organics and/or emit specific bands of plot-relevant radiation, it sure as hell isn't that specific. If you try to use Dakara and set it to anti-Gould genetics, you run a good chance of dusting every other organic being in the target area. The only reason they could specifically target the Replicators is because they weren't, they were trying to disrupt the energy bounds between the Replicator blocks.

I'm also pretty sure that Dakara isn't a galaxy wide genetic manipulator, but rather it seeds DNA on target planets to jumpstart evolution.

(To be honest, when I read your comment, for a minute there I goofed, and somehow replaced Dakara Device with the Attero Device. Big misread!)

EDIT: Oh, and targeting the Goauld homeworld (where they originally came from) wouldn't actually affect the Goauld Empire. The Empire doesn't actually remember where they came from.

EDIT2: ...and that's not actually what you were saying. Christ on a pogo stick, I'm failing comprehension rolls terribly today! I'm usually only this bad in the wee hours of the AM.
 
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And there's a problem.
That's why I clarified on goa'uld controlled worlds so it wouldn't hit rebel Jaffa who'd left.
Guess that might still be too many, though.

...wut.

No, seriously, what?
I'm pretty sure that while it can be used to eliminate organics and/or emit specific bands of plot-relevant radiation, it sure as hell isn't that specific. If you try to use Dakara and set it to anti-Gould genetics, you run a good chance of dusting every other organic being in the target area. The only reason they could specifically target the Replicators is because they weren't, they were trying to disrupt the energy bounds between the Replicator blocks.

I'm also pretty sure that Dakara isn't a galaxy wide genetic manipulator, but rather it seeds DNA on target planets to jumpstart evolution.
Well, the Dakara device was used to fix the Asgard in this story, so it can be used to modify organisms.

Plus this bit in the wiki.
Anubis alludes to the weapon's ability to also reorganize matter into patterns that allowed life to evolve in some kind of controlled nature, as in the case of the Ancients' departure for the Pegasus Galaxy.
As well as the fact that in order to actually seed the galaxy with specific strands of DNA for each world it would, quite literally, have to be a galaxy-wide genetic manipulator.
And since the Ancients used it to seed the galaxy after the Plague killed things it has to be capable of reconfiguring matter to actually make new life-forms and structures, since many of the organisms would have died off. And they would have had to remake the more complex organisms from scratch, since 10-5 million years isn't long enough for bacteria to re-evolve into everything.
Not to mention that since the only amount of plague left in the galaxy was in a frozen ancient, they probably also tuned it to kill the plague as well.
 
The issue is that the overall quality of life on Goa'uld controlled worlds, combined with deaths directly caused by living on one, probably adds up to worse it'd cost to free them in a fairly short span of time.

That, however, is "definitely not Torroar's fault". Well, thinking that way is a fairly universal human fallacy, and a decent hedge against the possibility of being wrong... Although mostly it's about primate politics.

I think the Commander is making a mistake. I'm also okay with this. After what we've heard, it's an appropriate mistake for him to make.
 
Crap ya know what @torroar forgot to get while he was in the Galaxy Far Far Away? The S-foil technology!
 
Crap ya know what @torroar forgot to get while he was in the Galaxy Far Far Away? The S-foil technology!

...why? S-foils aren't anything impressive, they just slim down a fighter for easier/faster/more efficient travel. There's literally no reason I can think of why they'd be in any way desirable, especially for a PA Commander.
 
He does have them.

S-Foils = ship design stuff.

Which he has. All of. It's right there on the front page: All Empire, Rebellion, Civilian Ship Designs

But they aren't really in use, yeah? For reasons like @Ovid said.
 
My understanding is that S-foil tech is super radiators that better allow the fighters to deal with waste heat and therefore be higher performance.
 
My understanding is that S-foil tech is super radiators that better allow the fighters to deal with waste heat and therefore be higher performance.

So basicly the progenitor alloy/materials no sells that already then. With the whole 100% efficiency thing they got going on.
 
I'm pretty sure S-foils exist to allow the ship utilizing them to radiate its Rule of Coolness better, ergo allowing things like STL lasers, aerodynamic physics in space, and general space opera-y goodness. Oooooor it could be improved radiators to permit sustained weapons fire. Take your pick.
 
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