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Detroit: Become Human

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Redem said:
Cage defintiively new agey, but he seem to going full Sci-fi for once I'm going for "transhumanism will be like heaven and turn us into superman"
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Everyone keeps believing that about his games and it's NEVER true. He's four for four now and only one of them explicitly went supernatural with it's premise.
 
Leila Hann said:
Anyway, regardless of the interactivity to cutscene ratio, my point was that a story-based game will run into issues if the dev can't fucking write.
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Which is the real reason people are upset the world's turning into Metal Gear. The world playing out like a Kojima plot is the final nail in the coffin of the argument for a merciful god. :(
 
Redem said:
Cage defintiively new agey, but he seem to going full Sci-fi for once I'm going for "transhumanism will be like heaven and turn us into superman"
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What's wrong with New Age?

And while I don't really care about Transhumanism, I think a game with that message would make a lot of people happy.

Then again, there should be different endings. So you could presumably reject the hypotehtical transhumanist message.
 
Nikkolas said:
What's wrong with New Age?
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Mostly that it's dumb bullshit.

And while I don't really care about Transhumanism, I think a game with that message would make a lot of people happy.
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In my experience, no, they wouldn't.

Then again, there should be different endings. So you could presumably reject the hypotehtical transhumanist message.
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I'm looking forward to the endings being "Refuse to Join with Solaris to form a superhuman singularity god." and "Do that, but then pop out later anyway so it doesn't matter."
 
Fell said:
Everyone keeps believing that about his games and it's NEVER true. He's four for four now and only one of them explicitly went supernatural with it's premise.
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Three out of four of them went supernatural. The first one had demons trying to capture souls, the second had ancient mayan prophecy end of the world stuff, and the fourth had faux-native american spiritualism and a ghost dimension. The third one didn't have supernatural stuff, and that's because they cut out the supernatural stuff and left a weird dropped story element that was supposed to be explained by it.
 
Fell said:
Mostly that it's dumb bullshit.
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You're an Atheist, correct? Don't you think all religion is BS? But it's fiction so magic is fair game in my book.

In my experience, no, they wouldn't.
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You're from SB just like myself. I was specifically thinking of the transhumanist fans on SB when I made that comment.

I'm looking forward to the endings being "Refuse to Join with Solaris to form a superhuman singularity god." and "Do that, but then pop out later anyway so it doesn't matter."
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There were many very different endings in HR. I dunno about how different the endings were in Beyond 'cuz I didn't like it much.
 
There's a pretty clear miscommunication between Kojima and a lot of armchair critics. They complain that he makes his video games like movies like that wasn't intentional or something? No he knows he's making his games like movies. That's what he wants. He disagrees with the premise that video games being more like movies is bad.

And people mistake the longwindedness of the later games as him going off the rails as a writer when it's clearly him giving less of a shit as time goes on. Like, yeah, the cutscenes in MGS4 are too long. He probably knows, he just doesn't care because MGS5 is him re-enacting the printer scene from Office Space with his own franchise.

I mean, maybe this applies to David Cage too but I think Cage is just dum sooo...

Ford Prefect said:
Someone did, and Hideo got an award for cinematography out of it :V
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Which game was it?
 
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Kojima certainly has more to say than David Cage. Cage's games do have political commentary like "fuck America," "fuck American police" and "homeless people are actual human beings" (very agreeable politics to me) but he doesn't do much in terms of philosophy or setting a big mindblowing theme.

Metal Gear Solid 1, for instance, is full to the brim with talk about genetic determinism and then there's some other stuff about nuclear proliferation but it's less important.

Metal Gear Solid 2 takes on the Nurture side, with each character being a product of their environment and can they ever escape that? Can Raiden ever truly decide to live his own life and be happy with Rose? Game says yes and then we never see him again so that was nice.

The game also was clearly inspired by Postmodernism, specifically a book called The New York Trilogy, which was pretty wiggy. I'd recommend it.

Just to muddy the waters of comparison some more, I like to say Hideo Kojima is sort of the Michael Crichton of video games. Each MGS game feels like each Crichton book - they found a subject, researched a lot about it, then wrote an entire story around this stuff they just learned and they really want to tell you about.
 
cB557 said:
Three out of four of them went supernatural. The first one had demons trying to capture souls, the second had ancient mayan prophecy end of the world stuff, and the fourth had faux-native american spiritualism and a ghost dimension. The third one didn't have supernatural stuff, and that's because they cut out the supernatural stuff and left a weird dropped story element that was supposed to be explained by it.
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Fuck off, you will never convince me that Heavy Rain's plot doesn't hinge on the actions of ghosts. Otherwise how the hell does Shawn die? :p

Nikkolas said:
You're an Atheist, correct? Don't you think all religion is BS? But it's fiction so magic is fair game in my book.
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Yeah, but it's especially stupid watching people who should know better fall for the same dumb bullshit that created the old religions in the first place. But that's neither here nor there; Cage's brand of new-agey shit is just particularly hilarious in how hamfisted and silly it gets when he forces it into everything he touches.

You're from SB just like myself. I was specifically thinking of the transhumanist fans on SB when I made that comment.
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There aren't actually even that many, even among sci fi fans, who I'd count as proper transhumanists. Even the types who think that robotic arms are the bees knees for some reason balk when you start talking about putting chips in people's brains to make them more content with their lives or more prone to cooperation.

There were many very different endings in HR. I dunno about how different the endings were in Beyond 'cuz I didn't like it much.
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Beyond's endings consist of "Press X to go to Cage Heaven." and "Press Square to fight Skynet." only in the former case you just come back from the dead to fight Skynet anyway because they were angling for a sequel before Cage got bored.
 
Fell said:
Even the types who think that robotic arms are the bees knees for some reason balk when you start talking about putting chips in people's brains to make them more content with their lives or more prone to cooperation.
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I pretty much want a Fully Cybernetic body and am okay with Ghost in the Shell style Replacing parts of the brain with cybernetics. But people balk about mind control chips for good fucking reason.
 
Nikkolas said:
Kojima certainly has more to say than David Cage. Cage's games do have political commentary like "fuck America," "fuck American police" and "homeless people are actual human beings" (very agreeable politics to me) but he doesn't do much in terms of philosophy or setting a big mindblowing theme.

Metal Gear Solid 1, for instance, is full to the brim with talk about genetic determinism and then there's some other stuff about nuclear proliferation but it's less important.

Metal Gear Solid 2 takes on the Nurture side, with each character being a product of their environment and can they ever escape that? Can Raiden ever truly decide to live his own life and be happy with Rose? Game says yes and then we never see him again so that was nice.

The game also was clearly inspired by Postmodernism, specifically a book called The New York Trilogy, which was pretty wiggy. I'd recommend it.

Just to muddy the waters of comparison some more, I like to say Hideo Kojima is sort of the Michael Crichton of video games. Each MGS game feels like each Crichton book - they found a subject, researched a lot about it, then wrote an entire story around this stuff they just learned and they really want to tell you about.
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I think you're getting the metaphor confused with the message. MGS isn't about generic determinism; the genes are a metaphor for your choices in life versus the path you're put on by the rest of the world. Which is pulled pretty well throughout the series
 
Really how well the game's story is received depends on whether the rumors of multiple writers being involved is true and whether they can cage Cage and harness his crazy power for good, instead of just hiding under a desk and hoping he'll go away if they stop making writing sounds.
 
Teen Spirit said:
I pretty much want a Fully Cybernetic body and am okay with Ghost in the Shell style Replacing parts of the brain with cybernetics. But people balk about mind control chips for good fucking reason.
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Terrible reasons, frankly. They're far more useful than cybernetic bodies. SOMEONE needs to control your mind after all, and if it can't be you, it should be someone.
 
Teen Spirit said:
Why the fuck can't it be me?

Somehow in a thread about a game where Fully Sapient AIs are used as Mannequins, this is the most insane thing I've seen so far.
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*Shrug*

I'm not saying we should have wireless dongles in our heads for the corporations to pilot us with android phones like consumerist quad rotors, just that if you want to improve the human condition, you start by improving humans. Not the crass anatomy, but the cognition, the behavior. Society can be made better if people are made better.

Maybe you'd feel better about the chip in your head if everyone had one, making them not want to control your mind. :p
 
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Fell said:
*Shrug*

I'm not saying we should have wireless dongles in our heads for the corporations to pilot us with android phones like consumerist quad rotors, just that if you want to improve the human condition, you start by improving humans. Not the crass anatomy, but the cognition, the behavior. Society can be made better if people are made better.

Maybe you'd feel better about the chip in your head if everyone had one, making them not want to control your mind. :p
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There's nothing wrong with society! We're perfect! Okay, maybe there are some SJWs on college campuses oppressing white people but that's it.

Speaking of which, I glanced at the YouTube comments for the unofficial and official video of the latest trailer. Wolfenstein and Far Cry 5 already got a bit of shit, was wondering if this game will get some shit, too. Apart from racism towards AIs, didn't see too much. Few comments about this being Marxist propaganda.

Speaking of which
I'm not sure what David Cage is trying to say with Detroit

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 21/06/2017

I want Detroit: Become Human to have the balls to have something to say, but I'm worried it'll end up being a game about android resistance that sits on the fence.

David Cage, mastermind of divisive PlayStation adventure games Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls, has turned his attention to the telling of a well-worn story: what happens when robots rise up?

The robot revolution is a tale as old as time, but in 2017 and no doubt in 2018, when Detroit is due out, it takes on extra meaning. The downtrodden, the forgotten, the poor and the weak have had enough. Is Detroit, then, a game about what it means to be human in this day and age? Is Detroit about the civil rights movement? I really want it to be, but I very much doubt it.
[...]
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Very critical appraisal, although I share their hopes for the game to be something "more." I compared Cage to Kojima earlier but in terms of political message he's never really woven that into his narrative. If he could do that with Detroit, I'd be happy.
 
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If Detroit is Marxist propaganda I'm switching to Hegel. It is that ineffective.

Seriously that asshole robot is so damn self righteous and smug it makes me want to enslave him.
 
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