Am I making a horrible mistake?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 14 5.7%
  • YES!

    Votes: 233 94.3%

  • Total voters
    247
Incidentally...

More PM telling and less story showing said:
An alternative use for the 'Raids' would be to attack an enemy fleet that chooses to be a Fleet in Being, much like the Germans were in both World Wars. If the fleet is raided enough, it could be forced to accept the challenge and sail out to meet the foe. This was the opening phase for my fictional Battle of the Baltic. Liberty and her sisters forced the High Seas Fleet to exit port and pursue the American Battlecruisers right into the maw of the American Battleships.

So yeah, the Battle of the Baltic apparently involved the Amerikongous sailing up to the High Sea Fleet, doing drive bys, until they drew enough aggro from the HSF who flipped out and chased them and ran headlong into the waiting guns of the USN.

Yeah.

Apparently you can use battlecruisers to harass a fleet in being until it decides to come after you. Nevermind that, as @Skywalker_T-65 said, actually getting there was damn near impossible...

(To be fair, the Royal Navy did plenty of night drive-by shootings on the Germans but that was 1) during WW2, and 2) in the channel, which was the RN's backyard, and 3) the germans were based in france, not the baltic.)
 
20 Kongous running around, and you didn't even try for a "bend it over a dess" joke? For shame, for shame.

In my defense, I was running on fumes at the time and trying to finish the thing so I could get to sleep and not then be running on fumes while at work. :V

(which didn't...work.)

So yeah, the Battle of the Baltic apparently involved the Amerikongous sailing up to the High Sea Fleet, doing drive bys, until they drew enough aggro from the HSF who flipped out and chased them and ran headlong into the waiting guns of the USN.

Yeah.

Apparently you can use battlecruisers to harass a fleet in being until it decides to come after you. Nevermind that, as @Skywalker_T-65 said, actually getting there was damn near impossible...

(To be fair, the Royal Navy did plenty of night drive-by shootings on the Germans but that was 1) during WW2, and 2) in the channel, which was the RN's backyard, and 3) the germans were based in france, not the baltic.)

I...what?

Naval doctrines do not work like that. USN CC doctrine- such as we had one when we never actually completed any -was for them to be used as a fast scouting force. Our battleship doctrine was, and always had been, built upon a steady approach and forcing the enemy into a battle with our standardized battleline. Hence, the Standards. Sending the lightly armored CCs on port raids is stupid. It would be risking extremely expensive ships, for no good reason.

You know what happens when you use battleships/battlecruisers as shore bombarders in WW1?

Gallipoli...

(yes, Sky continues to take any excuse he can get for more Sabaton :V)

Now, joking aside, Just ask the British Royal Navy and the French what bombarding a mined position is like. Is the Dardanelles a hell of a lot more narrow than the approach to Wilhemshaven? Certainly. But that is not the issue here. Because Wilhemshaven, and Hamburg for that matter, are the only major German bases that the Americans could hypothetically bombard, without sailing right in the Baltic. Which doesn't work, but we'll get to that.

(also, yes, that is where I got Irresistible's name from)

First off though, the approach to Wilhemshaven was so hilariously heavily mined (and guarded by shore batteries) that the Germans sank one of their own cruisers with their own mines. Yes, really.

The fog prevented the ships from entering Wilhelmshaven; instead, they anchored for the night in the Schillig roadstead. Yorck attempted to enter Wilhelmshaven early on the 4th,[12] but her crew made a navigational error which led the ship into a German defensive minefield. She struck two mines, and capsized and sank with heavy loss of life.

Now, you tell me. How are American battlecruisers going to make a- by necessity -high-speed hit and run attack on a port that's so heavily mined that the Germans can manage to sink one of their own cruisers with them? Presuming they have the same guns as Kongou (or hell, even American 14in guns) they're not going to be accurate enough to sink BBs in port at anything but suicidal close range, when one considers the lengths the Germans went to when mining the area.

I can only assume this entire idea comes from the Kaiserliche Marine bombarding British cities, in an effort to draw out the Grand Fleet piecemeal and take it down piecemeal. This lead to Jutland. And it is also not a fair comparison.

Attacking Wilhemshaven or Hamburg? That's like the HSF going down the Channel and bombarding London or Dover. Instead of Yarmouth and Lowestoft.. While still military targets, they were neither as heavily defended as Ze German ports, nor were they somewhat enclosed by other land. And attacking Kiel or other Baltic targets? That's like the Germans going all the way up to Scotland and directly attacking bloody Scapa Flow. Worse, actually, because have you actually looked at the straits involved?


You tell me. Can USN CCs make a mad dash down these two navigable straits, avoiding the Germans in the process, and getting into the Baltic? Furthermore, can slow Standard battleships make the same? You've only got two options, sail by the narrow strait that takes you right by the Danish Capital of Copenhagen (and the large Swedish Malmo) to avoid directly going by Kiel. Not only does this defeat the purpose of bombarding the HSF in port, you are banking on there being no German spies in Copenhagen watching for just such an idiotic move (HA! Not likely) or that the Danish government doesn't tell the Germans to avoid being invaded for not telling them. Denmark has no army or navy to speak of, they're not going to tick off the Germans by either letting military ships sail down by their capital, or doing so and not telling the Germans.

Furthermore, if you take the shorter route through the wider Storebælt strait? Whelp, you better hope the Germans haven't mined it too. And if they haven't? You sail right into the guns and ships of Kiel. And just ask Yamashiro what happens when a battleship sails down a narrow strait, towards a blockading group of battleships. If the Germans have any warning at all (they will. Sailing all the way around Denmark will get you spotted even if you do it at night) they will push ships through the Kiel Canal if needed, and set up a blockade. And now? Congrats fictional USN, you just did the battle of Suriago Strait in reverse, decades early. Good job. :V

You see, stuff like this tells me there was no research involved.
 
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Sheo you magnificent bastard.
Hmmm. American Kongou, huh. Let me try.

x=x=x

It's the English-born returnee, Kongou!

"These delays are unacceptable. You dishonor us, Owens-san. We are dropping our order for Kongou."

What?

"We heard you had a perfectly fine warship with no buyer. We want her."

What is going on?

Battlecruiser Liberty. The only major capital warship that the United States purchased from another country, because what major power would not seize the chance for perfectly legal technological espionage through tech transfer?

What are you doing?

The Americans proceed to dissect their new warship. They looked at her armor scheme, her 14" Vickers guns, her boiler machinery. They wanted to know how her sisters Hiei, Haruna, and Kirishima ticked. They used her to conjure ways to counter and hunt down and kill her sisters.

Please don't hurt my sisters! Don't use me to hurt my sisters! I don't want to hurt them!

Afterwards, the US Navy wonders what to do with her. She is the only ship of her class. She is nothing like any of their previous ships.

She does not have All Or Nothing armor; her speed is her armor. Her guns are different, her boilers are different, her operational doctrine is different.

Ordered by Japan, built in Britain, how can anyone call her American?

She would have been scrapped to simplify logistics and cut back on spending. But the higher ups and politicians weighed in on the matter. After all, had not some Navy geniuses wanted a 'large cruiser' for the longest time?

You... You are keeping me? You aren't throwing me away?

With the US Navy she remained. Off to the Scouting Force she went. The destroyers and cruisers welcomed her firepower and armor, where she became the flagship of her very own fleet.

I... It's the English-born warship, Liberty! It's nice to meet you all!

The Americans worked her harder than the Royal Navy worked Hood. She did not have a deep stock of spare parts, so her resourceful engineers scrounged up substitutes for her broken boilers and worn out turbines. Eventually her internals became a temperamental mishmash of slap-dash machinery that constantly threatens to break down during standard operations, much less the heat of simulated combat.

Oh... seems like my exertions are catching up to me...

She was so happy when she heard of the planned Lexingtons. She was never mass-produced; one of her sufficed for the Scouting Fleet and the US Navy continued to build battleships.

She wants company; she wants sisters; she wants family.

She does not want to remain alone.

I'll have little sisters again! I won't be alone anymore!

And then the Washington Naval Treaty happened, and the Lexingtons were canceled, and her "Little Lex" and "Sweet Sara" were converted into carriers and the others were scrapped.

Constellation... Constitution... Ranger... United States...

She was alone again. She was always alone.

Hope sailed alone.

"It will be okay, Miss Liberty."

You two are too kind, Lex, Sara.

And then the War came, and her home of Pearl Harbor was destroyed by those who would have been her sisters and friends and allies in another life. She was thrust into fevered battle alongside her adopted family, her speed allowing her to accompany the fast fleet carriers as they desperately slashed into the ever-expanding borders of the evil Empire that overran Southeast Asia.

Why? Why would you do this? Why do you desire death and destruction? Why do you want a World War?

She is present when the badly-damaged Lexington is torn apart by internal explosions, when Yorktown is ambushed by I-168, and when Wasp is sunk by I-19. Tasked with protecting the vulnerable carriers against enemy surface combatants, she cannot defend them against aircraft or submarines.

Forgive me, Saratoga, Enterprise, Hornet. I failed you. I failed your sisters. I am a failure.

"There's nothing to forgive, Miss Liberty. I know you did all you could for Lex. It... was just her time to go."

"Miss Liberty, you saved Hornet. You saved my sister. Thanks to you, I still have a sister. And I can never repay you for that."

"I'm only alive thanks to you, Miss Liberty. You towed me to safety. You took those kamikazes under fire and took those bad hits just to get me out of there. I owe you everything."

She hears of Hiei's demise, her sister slain by the aircraft of the carrier she protects. She learns of Kirishima's death in a glorious duel with fast battleships that render her entire existence into redundancy. She is told of how Haruna was torpedoed by an American submarine as they retreated from Samar.

My Japanese sisters are dead. I alone remain of the Kongou class.​

She weeps. She rails against the heavens. She grieves for her losses.

But she also forces herself to move forward. To move on. To move towards the future.

To move alongside Saratoga, Enterprise, Hornet, and all of her new friends, her new family, who do not supersede the old but whose gentle arms console her with the knowledge that she has lost much and yet retains so much.

With their help, she survives. She endures. She fights.

Engaging! FIRE! All guns, FIRE! Receive my BURNING FREEDOM!

She makes it to the end of the War. She enters the Bay of the capital city of the devastated country that angrily abandoned her decades ago. She watches over Missouri as the Instrument of Surrender is realized, the pen putting an end to the sword.

It is over. I am so tired...

Old, worn out, unneeded and unwanted, she takes one final journey to a remote Pacific atoll called Pikinni, where she looks into the blinding light at the end of the dark tunnel and smiles.

Admiral Halsey, Saratoga, Enterprise, Hornet... May your fortunes hold... I'll... be watching from Valhalla...

Hiei. Haruna. Kirishima. Lexington. Constellation. Constitution. United States. Ranger.

I am coming home.

So passes the first and last battlecruiser of the United States Navy. In fire and flood.

But this is not the end of her story.

x=x=x​

20XX
She stirs from quiescence. Strong words patter upon her deck and turret roofs and bridge like warm raindrops. Hands draw upon the mooring lines that keep her anchored in this restful sleep.
She recognizes the language. It used to be her first tongue, her old native language. Japanese.

'Why are they calling me?'

There is a new war. A new Enemy. The Abyssals threaten humankind.

Japan is desperate. They are cut off from the rest of the world. They have run out of conventional warships.

So they called upon the spirits of the warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy to protect them. And those spirits awoke from their slumber and fought for Japan once more.

But now there are no more Japanese warships to summon. And the war continues, and the need is as great as ever.

And so they call upon her. The armored cruiser they ordered in 1910, who became a battlecruiser during the course of the next three years of her construction.

"Come! Kongou!"

How dare you...

Why should she fight for those who abandoned her so many years ago? Why should she answer the prayers of the nation who took Lexington and Yorktown and Wasp away from her? Why should she help the people who threw away the lives of Hiei and Kirishima and Haruna in the name of honor and heroism to cover up their greed and idiocy?

What right did they have to call her Kongou, when her name is Liberty?

What gives you the r̳i͕̮g͖h̤̹͖͕͙̰̝ͅṱ͙͙̦̬̙͎̦̤?

x-x-x

All of the people shall be respected as individuals. Their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness shall, to the extent that it does not interfere with the public welfare, be the supreme consideration in legislation and in other governmental affairs.

x-x-x​

The words borrowed by the Thirteenth Article of the Japanese Constitution set her boilers to ignite with deep thumps. Her propellers enter brief spins that cause her hull to push forward through the darkling waters of this quiet anchorage.

She stops herself, but the thought remains and the feelings grow within her.

'Their right to liberty,' she murmurs. 'Liberty...'

x-x-x

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

x-x-x​

Thus spake the Founding Fathers of the Thirteen Colonies as their sovereign states joined together to form the United States of America. And in forming a new nation and a new beginning for its hopeful people, they set a precedent for the rest of the world and for all humanity.

'Everyone... everyone deserves life, deserves a chance to be happy, deserves liberty...

'Like me...'

The resentment remains. The taint is imbued within her hull. Only a deeper scouring of the soul will dispel it, and she does not have the luxury of time right now.

But her hate no longer rules her mind and heart. She is free of the red haze and the crushing chains around her heart and the crushing weight upon her shoulders.

She remembers that there are greater things than her hatred, better things. Things she love, others she love.

'Lexington. Saratoga. Hiei. Haruna. Kirishima.'

"I want to see you again, my sisters," she murmurs.

And so the battlecruiser gathers her ghostly crew to her hull. She gathers steam within her high-pressure water vessels, gathers up her anchors and lines. She gathers her courage and her faint memories of the country that she had conquered and the vague faces of the sisters she has never seen.

And she sails out of the fog of history for the Land of the Rising Sun, naval rifles and cannons at the ready, the Star-Spangled Banner flying from her masts, eyes clear and a hopeful smile upon her lips.

She is going to war. She will stand up in defense of life and freedom and happiness. For others. For her family, her two sets of sisters. For her self.

"CC-1. USS Liberty. Weighing anchor."

'I will protect all of my sisters.'

x=x=x
And done. The product of four straight hours plus some quick research and double-checking.

Think it could work as a prologue for a story about an American Kongou?​
 
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Godsamnit Sheo i thought we had an arrangement

We farm tears off cute DDs and shy BBs and responsible older sister BBs.

Why are you farming tears off me.

(I approve.)

Alao if American Kongou saved Hornet from the kamikaze.... That means... oh god. Gloriousness that is American AA.

....Buki in despair, falling to her knees. A swarm of Abyssal torpedo bombers make a beeline for the special type destroyer, crippled by her fears and doubts-

- and thrn she arrives, swift as a river, implacable as a mountain, fierce as fire. Her guns thunder and she shreds the flying demons in a hail of 40mm and 20mm fire. The barrage subsides, and she kneels and embraces Fubuki, and gives her hope.

And it is because of her that Fubuki can fight, that Fubuki has the confidence to do her best. Because of Liberty-sempai.
 
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Sorry about that. But I really needed to get that off my chest, and everyone who had to go through that fic deserves a reward for slogging through it.

If it helps, I was also sniffling towards the end of my vignette, so I was farming tears off myself as well. Because if you're going to write an American Kongou, you write her with shining American values and the great heart and big soul of Kongou.
 
Sorry about that. But I really needed to get that off my chest, and everyone who had to go through that fic deserves a reward for slogging through it.

If it helps, I was also sniffling towards the end of my vignette, so I was farming tears off myself as well. Because if you're going to write an American Kongou, you write her with shining American values and the great heart and big soul of Kongou.
Amerikongou is everyone's big sister, but especially the DDs and CLs.

....oh dear, now instead of wanting to be Akagi-sempai's escort, she wants to be like Kongou-sempai! At which point Liberty smiles indulgently and stifles the twinge of irritation she feels at her old name; a small price to pay when she is blessed by all these DD little sisters who adire her and who she adores in turn.
I
"But no, Hieh, I'm not wea ing that scandalous miko dress, i like my own cloth s very much."

"But onee-sama it'd help you snag Teitoku!"

"Hiei dear, if i'm going to snag him I won't need that miko dress."

"Please, oneesama? For us?"

"... Oh, alright, just this once. :)"
 
Alao if American Kongou saved Hornet from the kamikaze.... That means... oh god. Gloriousness that is American AA.

....Buki in despair, falling to her knees. A swarm of Abyssal torpedo bombers make a beeline for the special type destroyer, crippled by her fears and doubts-

- and thrn she arrives, swift as a river, implacable as a mountain, fierce as fire. Her guns thunder and she shreds the flying demons in a hail of 40mm and 20mm fire. The barrage subsides, and she kneels and embraces Fubuki, and gives her hope.

And it is because of her that Fubuki can fight, that Fubuki has the confidence to do her best. Because of Liberty-sempai.

Depending on how hard she's been worked over, there's a good possibility that she will still have her Chicago pianos and 5"/25s. She may have even used those against kamikazes off of Okinawa.

Amerikongou is everyone's big sister, but especially the DDs and CLs.

From old salty Clemsons, to grumpy Mahans, and even Gearings fresh off the slipways, Amerikongou's certainly has a lot of DDs on her hand.

Those brand new SoDaks and Iowas will certainly be looking to her for advice, especially after the iowa's mishaps with Willie. :p
 
Depending on how hard she's been worked over, there's a good possibility that she will still have her Chicago pianos and 5"/25s. She may have even used those against kamikazes off of Okinawa.
Hmmm, good point. In my mind I remembered how the USN basically swapped 5"/25s with the 5"/38s and replaced the Chicago Pianos with Bofors 40mms, so i figured maybe she'd have kept her secondary armament, but surely by 42-43 she'd have gotten an AA refit...
 
Incidentally...



So yeah, the Battle of the Baltic apparently involved the Amerikongous sailing up to the High Sea Fleet, doing drive bys, until they drew enough aggro from the HSF who flipped out and chased them and ran headlong into the waiting guns of the USN.

Yeah.

Apparently you can use battlecruisers to harass a fleet in being until it decides to come after you. Nevermind that, as @Skywalker_T-65 said, actually getting there was damn near impossible...

(To be fair, the Royal Navy did plenty of night drive-by shootings on the Germans but that was 1) during WW2, and 2) in the channel, which was the RN's backyard, and 3) the germans were based in france, not the baltic.)
To be fair, the High Sea Fleet kinda sorta not really did this.

Okay, to explain: on more than one occasion, the Germans dispatched Hipper and his battlecruisers into the North Sea, with the High Sea Fleet ready to sortie on short notice, to bombard a coastal town or sweep up some light cruisers with the intent of drawing out a portion of the Grand Fleet to smash it and even the odds a bit. It even worked, once, during the Scarborough raid, if I'm remembering correctly. Eight British dreadnoughts at sea, the High Seas Fleet charging up to engage them - could've been messy, if the two forces actually engaged each other.*

Of course, two completely different situations. The Germans were operating in the southern North Sea, not charging up to Scapa Flow. And the east English coast is far more open than the inlet-choked German coast. But yes, someone did use their battlecruisers to lure out the enemy battle fleet. They were just a hell of a lot smarter about it.

*This is entirely from memory, so I am almost certainly getting something wrong. Apologies in advance.
 
Think it could work as a prologue for a story about an American Kongou?

Oh yes, yes it could. Great work Sheo!

Also:

To be fair, the High Sea Fleet kinda sorta not really did this.

Well, I did mention that in my last post. But as both of us said, that was them raiding relatively unimportant cities in relatively safe waters. Not charging to Scapa Flow or London or what have you. Which would be the equivalent of bombarding Wilhemshaven or going into the Baltic.


(In unrelated news, this: Germany's High Seas Fleet in the World War is my source on anything related to the Kaiserliche Marine. You don't get more primary source than Admiral Scheer when it comes to the High Seas Fleet. Maybe Admiral Hipper or something. But still, biased as this may be because it's from a fundamentally biased perspective- Scheer is no historian, and as such wouldn't be trying to avoid historical bias -it is perfect for German doctrine and understanding why they did what they did. And where I know that Ze Germans would never copy Kongou)
 
Right, guys. I've thrown the gauntlet at Tomcat-lover's feet.

He continued to be salty in his last reply. He also continued to tunnel vision on my accusation of him stealing of Kongou II even though I had twice conceded that I may have been hasty and blinded by anger. Probably because I continued to critique the massive flaws of his story. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt now that my mind has cleared, but the rest of his story is still awful.

So I told him that I'm going to make a fic about an American Kongou. I explained that I am going to start it off by mentioning his fic and say that I take back my accusation that he copied Kongou II from me. I'll make that very clear to all my readers.

And then I told him that I will show him how to write a Kongou with American values without resorting to a badly-thought-up alternate universe or justifying her murder of her sisters via the Nuremberg defense of "I was doing my duty".

And then I added that I was going to show my resources, so that my readers can look up what I was referring to and thus come to learn and enjoy history like we all do. Because I want my readers to grow.

I'm not going to use a Kongou II. I do not need to.

Heroes do not prove their heroism by killing every enemy on the battlefield. Heroes save others.

Some of you know what I am going to call Liberty. I assume the USN will remove her name before they nuke her at Pikinni/Bikini, because imagine the uproar if the public heard they nuked [REDACTED].

And to finally end this derail, I will create a Thread on SV, dedicated to the American Kongou story, and link you guys there so we can talk about sharing our love of history with the KanColle community on ff.net, and because I really need to be more active on SV as well.

@De3ta, thanks so much for putting up with my derail. I apologize for hijacking your thread.
 
Sorry for this being delayed, I just got Stellaris, so I've been a bit distracted. Looks like I'll need to go read something by @Sheo Darren.

Jimbo: American! Kongou. Basically a ripoff of Sky's *Indestructible Spirit*.
Is this at least about stumbling on sinking Hiei and saving her? No? That would probably make way more sense then what we're about to get.
Break: Let me start the list: 1 USN doesn't use battlecruisers. They don't fit our doctrine. 2. USN doesn't buy ships built by foreign powers, we have enough ports to make that a terrible idea. 3. The hull code for battlecruisers is CC not BC, a point that I made with this blowhole. 4. Liberty is an idea, something that we don't name ships after. Battlecruisers were supposed to be battles, ie. Lexington, Saratoga…
1. I think this depends on how one defines Battlecruiser; for instance, I've seen claims that the Tennessee-class are proto-battlecruisers. Also, I understand that a lot of this was that the Navy asked Congress for funding both battleships and battlecruisers, and then sacrificed the latter to make sure they got the former.

2. Totally, Britain was more likely to buy american then the other way around. For instance, they turned to the US for 14" guns during WW1.

3. BC is actually a totally valid american hull designation; however, it would stand for 'old british cruiser' [1]. I feel I should note that this is actually an appropriate description of Kongou :V

4. I'm curious what battles CC-2 and CC-5 would have been named after? I don't remember those ever coming up in any of my history classes.
Tavish: Tell me guys, the US Navy never went into the european front, or did they?
What? We did so in both wars. It just wasn't as notable since it mostly involved shore bombardment and the ships were out of date.
Break: Kinda hated when all the writers did was try to copy him or write GG omakes. We had no real new KC content for over a year because of it.
Quoted for truth.


[1] Well, actually 'Old Cruiser, British' but close enough
 
4. I'm curious what battles CC-2 and CC-5 would have been named after? I don't remember those ever coming up in any of my history classes.

As I've said on Discord, one can say the USN naming scheme for CCs are battles, but it doesn't work. Lex and Sara are the only examples. Ranger is the odd one out.

And the other three? Constitution, Constellation and United States are all names from the Original Six Frigates.
 
In fact, one can say that the battlecruiser naming scheme, such as it was, was carried over to the carriers via Lexington and Saratoga. And what are carriers named for (discounting the recent trend of naming them after politicians)?

Battles.
Famous sailing ships.
The country itself.
Major aviation names.
And abstract concepts. Enterprise. Reprisal. Independence. Intrepid. A battlecruiser named Liberty is not out of the question. Or at least, not so out of the question that we should focus on it over the fics many other sins.
 
Sure, but one of his arguments basically went, "Also, the French had a ship named Liberty, and naming cinventions have changed in 2016, so because naming conventions have changed a century on, that justifies the change in 1910."

(This has been edited to be more coherent. His original argument was long, rambling and fairly incoherent.)
 
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As I've said on Discord, one can say the USN naming scheme for CCs are battles, but it doesn't work. Lex and Sara are the only examples. Ranger is the odd one out.

And the other three? Constitution, Constellation and United States are all names from the Original Six Frigates.
Given that my next move was to quote:
Article:
On 1 December 1917, Constitution was renamed OLD Constitution to permit her original name to be assigned to a projected battle cruiser. Given first to CC-1 (renamed Lexington) then to CC-5 (originally named Ranger), the name Constitution was restored to "Old Ironsides" on 24 July 1925, after the battle cruiser program had been canceled under the Washington naval treaty. Constitution (CC-5) was some 13.4 percent complete at the time of her cancellation.
Article:
It is an interesting fact that this venerable lady of the seas on 1 December 1917 was renamed "Old Constellation " in order to permit use of the original name for a projected new battle cruiser which, however, was scrapped before completion in accordance with the naval limitations agreement of 1922. Her original name was restored on 24 July 1925.

I actually already knew this. One of the tips for debating is to never ask a question you don't already know the answer to, sorry you ran afoul of that.

Liberty wouldn't be a dumb name if this ship was a bit more famous, given how many other carriers had names from historic american vessels, remembering that carriers seemed to inherit the naming convention of battlecruisers; however, the given reason is still dumb.
 
Right, guys. I've thrown the gauntlet at Tomcat-lover's feet.

He continued to be salty in his last reply. He also continued to tunnel vision on my accusation of him stealing of Kongou II even though I had twice conceded that I may have been hasty and blinded by anger. Probably because I continued to critique the massive flaws of his story. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt now that my mind has cleared, but the rest of his story is still awful.

So I told him that I'm going to make a fic about an American Kongou. I explained that I am going to start it off by mentioning his fic and say that I take back my accusation that he copied Kongou II from me. I'll make that very clear to all my readers.

And then I told him that I will show him how to write a Kongou with American values without resorting to a badly-thought-up alternate universe or justifying her murder of her sisters via the Nuremberg defense of "I was doing my duty".

And then I added that I was going to show my resources, so that my readers can look up what I was referring to and thus come to learn and enjoy history like we all do. Because I want my readers to grow.

I'm not going to use a Kongou II. I do not need to.

Heroes do not prove their heroism by killing every enemy on the battlefield. Heroes save others.

Some of you know what I am going to call Liberty. I assume the USN will remove her name before they nuke her at Pikinni/Bikini, because imagine the uproar if the public heard they nuked [REDACTED].

And to finally end this derail, I will create a Thread on SV, dedicated to the American Kongou story, and link you guys there so we can talk about sharing our love of history with the KanColle community on ff.net, and because I really need to be more active on SV as well.

@De3ta, thanks so much for putting up with my derail. I apologize for hijacking your thread.

Hey this bastion of salt and complaining being used for something productive?!?! I'm all for it!

I'm sure he doesn't mind. You're giving him free publicity by keeping the thread active without him having to put out more actual content :V

Also this. :oops:
 
As I've said on Discord, one can say the USN naming scheme for CCs are battles, but it doesn't work. Lex and Sara are the only examples. Ranger is the odd one out.

And the other three? Constitution, Constellation and United States are all names from the Original Six Frigates.

USS Ranger was a frigate of the Continental Navy, and Johnny Paul Jones' first command. It makes sense that the USN likes to recycle the names of its predecessors' ships; Wasp, Hornet, Essex, Boxer, Bon Homme Richard come right to my mind.
 
See if he'd argued that carriers used the naming convention of famous battles and historical ships, and then argued that carriers inherited that convention from battlecruisers, that'd be a compelling argument that I'd be forced to concede to. But that argument didn't occur to him.

Then again this is the person who distrusts SV and SB becuase posters on an internet forum are secondary sources and are suspect, but he never gives citations himself. :V and calls sky's posting here, where he's based, running away. :V
 
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