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DC's "Suicide Squad" Casting Revealed

VolantRedX said:
And I find a Harely that's just a sad sack woobie that tries to get people to feel bad for her is just as boring. You can make her a maniac without making her dull.
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I think you should read Arkham City Sirens. Or watch Batman TAS.

She's not a sad sack. She's a person with issues she needs to work through to put herself back together with a certain unhinged charm. She never tried to get people to feel bad about her in good stories. She has things she wants, goals in her life that persist, and works for them to put her life together through her own unhinged but still unmistakably intelligent efforts and some amount of support. Often with some amount of violence and humor.

That humor is often sad in the end, but that's an important thing. The Joker isn't funny. He's a sick monster. The joke will always fall flat when it comes down to it because it's sad, not funny in the end, and it needs to change or it'll just be the same sad painful empty joke over and over again.

She's dangerous in part because of that intelligence and conflicting desires of wanting to fix herself and the beat in belief the Joker is all there is for her. Watch "Mad Love," an episode of TAS.

Edit: The only time the Joker was really funny was in Arkham Knight's first half. In which he was a very atypical Joker. The second half had him as an interesting character who was no longer funny, but actually intriguing in how things played out and the psychology at play in his own head and the threat he presented to Batman, and that he actually had goals to accomplish as an impetus for his actions.
 
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trob030490 said:
Or watch Batman TAS.
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Yeah I've seen every episode. Thing is Harley is a million times less interesting it than Joker. She was just created to give him a Sidekick to work off of.

trob030490 said:
She's not a sad sack. She's a person with issues she needs to work through to put herself back together with a certain unhinged charm. She never tried to get people to feel bad about her in good stories. She has things she wants, goals in her life that persist, and works for them to put her life together through her own unhinged but still unmistakably intelligent efforts and some amount of support.
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Nah, she's not all that interesting to me as someone you should care about. I don't want to see her redemption. I want to see her gun down a 5th grade class because Puddin' said it'd be funny. Batman's villains are best at their craziest. It's the contrast of their madness against his order that makes for interesting stories. Not wondering if this time Harley won't snap at some story clerk and get sent back to Arkham. Sick people getting better isn't cool. Batman breaking some lunatic's jaw is cool. I say bring on crazy bitch.
 
VolantRedX said:
Yeah I've seen every episode. Thing is Harley is a million times less interesting it than Joker. She was just created to give him a Sidekick to work off of.


Nah, she's not all that interesting to me as someone you should care about. I don't want to see her redemption. I want to see her gun down a 5th grade class because Puddin' said it'd be funny. Batman's villains are best at their craziest. It's the contrast of their madness against his order that makes for interesting stories. Not wondering if this time Harley won't snap at some story clerk and get sent back to Arkham. Sick people getting better isn't cool. Batman breaking some lunatic's jaw is cool. I say bring on crazy bitch.
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Batman is at his best when he's nuanced. When in TAS he's trying to help these villains who outside of the Joker are ill people in bad outfits. When he's helping the Ventriloquist to keep it together as his mind plays tricks on him, trying to understand and actually help these people if he can because he wants to save everyone. When in Beware the Batman he's meeting with a villain in prison regularly because he's trying to understand her and help her and wanting to understand and fix himself in the process. When in Batman TAS he understands what Baby Doll is going through and is what she needs at that moment to stop her rampage and try to help her.

When he's an actual character. His voice breaking in Arkham Knight when he's trying to talk down someone close to him and fails is more poignant and so so much more interesting than every time he punches some thug in the mouth or beats up the mentally unwell. Batman isn't order. He's another slice of ill person who thinks he can make a difference in a bat suit while trying to keep it together enough to keep doing that. He's actually incredibly optimistic. He thinks he can make a difference doing what he's doing. He's intelligent, troubled, caring of life to the point of naivete, not just a violent thug who hits dudes.

Batman doesn't kill. He believes this is something he can actually make work no matter the circumstances. Do you realize how optimistic about people that guy is?
 
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trob030490 said:
That humor is often sad in the end, but that's an important thing. The Joker isn't funny. He's a sick monster.
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The Joker can be funny. In fact the best Joker is the one that has you laughing than feeling bad that you laughed.

trob030490 said:
She's dangerous in part because of that intelligence and conflicting desires of wanting to fix herself and the beat in belief the Joker is all there is for her.
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Except she isn't interesting. Her interacting is what's interesting.

trob030490 said:
When he's an actual character. His voice breaking in Arkham Knight when he's trying to talk down someone close to him and fails is more poignant and so so much more interesting than every time he punches some thug in the mouth or beats up the mentally unwell. Batman isn't order. He's another slice of ill person who thinks he can make a difference in a bat suit while trying to keep it together enough to keep doing that. He's actually incredibly optimistic. He thinks he can make a difference doing what he's doing. He's intelligent, troubled, caring of life to the point of naivete, not just a violent thug who hits dudes.
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I prefer a different sort of Batman. I prefer the Batman that sees himself as a soldier in a war that will never end. I prefer a Batman that knows the Joker is right, that given a chance people would eat each other, and that any order in this world is one that needs to be enforced on them. I prefer a Batman that's seen enough good in the world to think that people can be good, but has also seen enough bad to know that you can't just rely on that. I prefer a Batman that knows people like the Riddler or Two-Face are sick and can't really help themselves, but he doesn't let that stop him from doing what he has to in order to stop them. On some level Batman wants people like Harley to get better but he will break every bone in her body if she steps out of line.
 
VolantRedX said:
I prefer a different sort of Batman. I prefer the Batman that sees himself as a soldier in a war that will never end. I prefer a Batman that knows the Joker is right, that given a chance people would eat each other, and that any order in this world is one that needs to be enforced on them. I prefer a Batman that's seen enough good in the world to think that people can be good, but has also seen enough bad to know that you can't just rely on that. I prefer a Batman that knows people like the Riddler or Two-Face are sick and can't really help themselves, but he doesn't let that stop him from doing what he has to in order to stop them. On some level Batman wants people like Harley to get better but he will break every bone in her body if she steps out of line.
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So basically a fascist psycho just like people always "misinterpret" him as.

It's exactly that same kind of interoperation that makes me hate Batman on a visceral level.
 
Reveen said:
So basically a fascist psycho just like people always "misinterpret" him as.
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No the Dark Knight. He's Superman's reflection in that. Superman says that humans are all basically good and it's the deviation from the norm that people like them have to stop. Batman says that good people are the deviation and they're ensuring that the criminals of the world have a reason to be afraid to go out at night. It's not fascist to say that criminals should get what's coming to them.

Reveen said:
It's exactly that same kind of interoperation that makes me hate Batman on a visceral level.
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From the discussions I've had with you anything that treats criminals like criminals makes you hate on a visceral level.
 
VolantRedX said:
From the discussions I've had with you anything that treats criminals like criminals makes you hate on a visceral level.
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Maybe because its that the "treating criminals like criminals " mentality is a huge reason why the American justice system is so abusive and systemically racist. Batman should be better than a broken system that profits off of dehumanizing criminals, to say the least.
 
CyborgneticSpyder said:
Maybe because its that the "treating criminals like criminals " mentality is a huge reason why the American justice system is so abusive and systemically racist. Batman should be better than a broken system that profits off of dehumanizing criminals, to say the least.
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It goes without saying that racism is a massive problem with law enforcement, but I don't get why Batman should then be wearing pillows on his hands.
 
GIve up trying to talk to VolantRed on this one, yo. He hates it when bad guys are anything but completely irredeemable caricatures that justify any action the heroes take, despises any sort of moral complexity, and is proud of the fact.
 
To be fair, Flashes villains are a lot more harmless than most hero's rogues galleries.

To be unfair, that's probably because he doesn't act like a thug or a douchebag (aka Spidey) towards them.
 
Reveen said:
To be fair, Flashes villains are a lot more harmless than most hero's rogues galleries.

To be unfair, that's probably because he doesn't act like a thug or a douchebag (aka Spidey) towards them.
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Plus, he's so OP the Rogues know they can't escalate, so they don't, keeping it quite friendly for the most part.
 
I'm actually really excited for the cast and I think there's a lot of talent here that can create an entertaining movie, regardless of the script quality.

El Diablo has me really intrigued 'cuz like he's just dressed up like an old homeboy and I'm like "what makes this dude dangerous? is he really good with a pocket knife or something??" but then I found out he's a pyrokinetic which puts a new spin on that scene where he's got the flame in his hand.

Will Smith is one of the highest grossing actors of all time and he can act. Very well, in fact. So I'm not really worried about Deadshot.

Got a good feeling about Katana but I don't know much about the actor.
 
open_sketchbook said:
GIve up trying to talk to VolantRed on this one, yo. He hates it when bad guys are anything but completely irredeemable caricatures that justify any action the heroes take, despises any sort of moral complexity, and is proud of the fact.
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That's not it at all. I'm saying that it's all well and good to say that people like Harely and Riddler are sick people, but they're also killers and if Batman has to snap a few of their bones to bring them in I don't see why that's some moral outrage. They're the bad guys. They've earned a few lumps.
 
VolantRedX said:
That's not it at all. I'm saying that it's all well and good to say that people like Harely and Riddler are sick people, but they're also killers and if Batman has to snap a few of their bones to bring them in I don't see why that's some moral outrage. They're the bad guys. They've earned a few lumps.
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Harley is sick, yes. Riddler is basically one of Batman's harmless rogues. A jackass, slightly messed up in the head, but more in it for messing with Bat's head than anything else. It's like saying a shoplifter needs to get beaten into a full body cast.
 
Richardson said:
Riddler is basically one of Batman's harmless rogues. A jackass, slightly messed up in the head, but more in it for messing with Bat's head than anything else.
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What the hell are you talking about? The Riddler has killed dozens of people. He can be just as deadly and dangerous as Two-Face or Poison Ivy.
 
VolantRedX said:
That's not it at all.
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VolantRedX said:
Nah, she's not all that interesting to me as someone you should care about. I don't want to see her redemption. I want to see her gun down a 5th grade class because Puddin' said it'd be funny. Batman's villains are best at their craziest. It's the contrast of their madness against his order that makes for interesting stories. Not wondering if this time Harley won't snap at some story clerk and get sent back to Arkham. Sick people getting better isn't cool. Batman breaking some lunatic's jaw is cool. I say bring on crazy bitch.
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I don't know why people try to lie on the internet when what they've said is right there.
 
NonSequtur said:
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I don't know why people try to lie on the internet when what they've said is right there.
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You can make a bad guy complex without making them some sad sack. They do it with the Joker all the time. Harley isn't an interesting character on her own. Her trying not to be Harley Quinn isn't interesting. What's interesting is her interaction with the Joker or Poison Ivy. When she plays the bad guy. That's more interesting because she provides a foil to the main character.
 
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