Daniel Estacado
ZA WARUDO
He seems to be channeling a weird mixture of Hamill Joker and Ledger Joker in my opinion.
DC's "Suicide Squad" Casting Revealed
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He seems to be channeling a weird mixture of Hamill Joker and Ledger Joker in my opinion.
trob030490
Professor Kokonoe
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All I know about him is that he was yet another cis man playing a trans woman in a movie that made the academy think he was so brave and all that back patting, while every trans person went "this old bullshit again? Because it totally makes sense for a trans woman to be played by some dude in shitty makeup? Seriously movie studios, seriously, you still do this black face style nonsense?"
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
...Not to sound ignorant, but wouldn't any pre-op trans woman be physically the same a cis man?
Didn't answer my question, but thank you for the interesting detour.
trob030490
Professor Kokonoe
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The only thing the op does is change the genitals. Everything else unless the person is very unlucky genetically is done with medication over several years. If further change is needed outside of genitals there are surgeries at that point down the line, however, someone like myself and many others don't need them at all to look entirely female outside of what is in my pants.
The media likes to do this whole operation to change everything quick thing that is entirely incorrect since the real thing is 1-2 years of medication to get all non-genital results unless you require surgery after that of some kind.
And, regardless, find a trans woman or a cis woman to play her. How offensive do you think it is to play someone who faced hardship for people thinking she was a man with a man in drag?
Edit: A poor trans woman from that time might not be able to afford meds, or even now in many cases of extreme poverty, however, a man playing a trans woman for that reason is no better than a white man in black face with big red lips playing a black man because maybe they sort of looked like that to some degree.
Edit2: Apparently I was wrong. The character Rayon was fictional, but was supposedly based on interviewed trans people. Still leads to the same issue.
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VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
It's Jared Leto. He was Angle Face in Fight Club and Paul Alan in American Psycho.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
Well it's not like there are a ton of trans women in acting, and the few that are likely don't have the resume of Leto.
It's not like he was dressed like Buffalo Bill. This is like complaining that a Harvey Milk was played by a straight actor.
trob030490
Professor Kokonoe
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No, it's like saying there's not enough black actors so let's but a black one in black face and big red lips.
Edit: You take a group of people who face violence because people incorrectly think they're men in drag, and then play one with a man in drag. Pretty hugely different from a gay character played by a non-gay actor. Get a cis woman to play her if you don't want to hire one of several trans actresses.
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Or worse, he'll act like he did in After Earth.
In all seriousness, looking forward to this. Enchantress was one of my favorite characters in Shadowpact, and while I don't know how different that depition was from Suicide Squad, I do want to see her on the big screen. Waller looks great, too. Kinda meh on the others.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
Except not at all since at no point would a black man resemble a white man but a trans woman at some point is physically no different than a cis male.
trob030490
Professor Kokonoe
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Trans woman in transition mostly don't look like cis men in bad makeup and wigs, at all. That's a false stereotype that is pushed by films like the mentioned one.
And it's still offensive at the most basic level. It still pushes the idea that trans women are men to the audience and presents an incorrect image and then people get acclaim for it while us in the trans community roll our eyes at yet another example of this. I mean, trans women get beaten to death regularly for people thinking they're a man, so don't cast a man as one of us, ever under any circumstances.
Other than having a distaste for that actor, I'm not interested in seeing this film partially because it looks like they're going with the goofy simpleton character for Harley once again instead of the damaged but intelligent interesting character. Though, if they go with it as a front built from harm and survival while she still clearly has a lot going on internally I'd be very good with that characterization being presented.
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trob030490
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Apologies, I just feel kind of strongly about that actor due to that film.
I did inject some stuff about Harley's potential characterization in the end there. We could discuss that as relevant?
I'm also curious what they're doing with Deadshot's character. From the trailer he's going to be kind of an honorable rouge type who wants to do good after past wrongs. I'm not familiar with Deadshot's typical character, so I ask, is that typical or is it because the biggest name actor is playing him?
At best, he's usually a Jerk with a Heart of Gold. At worst, he's a dickish, somewhat sadistic assassin.
Source: DCAU, Arrow, read some of the Green Arrow comics.
trob030490
Professor Kokonoe
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Would you say he's being presented as the team leader in the trailer? Is that typical for the character or in this team?
Rick Flagg should be the leader. He always led Task Force X/Suicide Squad in the comics, answering directly to Amanda Waller. Deadshot was usually the Tony Stark to his Captain America, if that makes sense. He's probably being presented as the lovable rogue, lancer type that argues with the leader a lot.
Enchantress, though, I can't wait to see that. I hope they don't pussy out with the magic. She's one of my favorite characters from what I've read of her. Too bad this looks like her origin story.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
I got the opposite. She looked fucking nuts here. Like rarely did the idea that Harley is just as crazy as the Joker get across, but this one I could see carving the skin off a five year old and using it to fool a facial recognition software.
and I know this is off topic and I'm sorry but,
Why blame him for anything? To him it was likely just another role to play. A paycheck to cash. He didn't make them cast a man in the part.
trob030490
Professor Kokonoe
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Since when is Harley that crazy? Usually she has limits to her madness and depth that isn't just crazy psycho, with a mix of negative and positive traits and some possibility for rehabilitation.
I mean, even the nu52 one found out a hero was pregnant and was like "oh, shit, hell no we're not going to fight, you're pregnant." And then showed up in the hospital later with gifts.
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VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
I wonder if the fake teeth are because Batman punch his real one's down his throat? Aflec's Batman is said to be far more violent than any previous ones.
Depends on the story. Batman Beyond Return of the Joker had her aid in torturing Robin to the point of madness. She's had other moments where she's proven just a deadly and sociopathic as the Joker can be. I hope they go there rather than just making her into a woobie for the nth time.
Claudette Savagely
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Harley looks out to fucking lunch in comparison to most of her depictions elsewhere, and if I have this right it seems the Joker's got something to do with it. I suspect that's Dr Quinzel he's talking to at the end there as he preps for some impromptu ECT...
trob030490
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You'll remember that even in that Barbara was extremely surprised and disappointed in her for doing that because it seemed so extreme and more off the edge than she'd ever been before. And even in that one she eventually shaped up, had a life, and was angry at her grand kids for being involved in crime when we see her telling them off towards the end of the film.
Harley who evolves and develops past her flaws is interesting. Harley as just another crazy soulless Joker is about as boring as the Joker usually is when he's just crazy.
Edit: If she's damaged to the point of just super crazy all the time violent psycho from the get go and just stays there, she's not interesting, not dynamic. She, as most characters, needs an arc.
The trailer showed an implied arc for Deadshot. He has a past that informs his character, new events in the film spur him to some kind of action that probably develops him as he goes for a goal that changes him. The others need that too.
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VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
And I find a Harely that's just a sad sack woobie that tries to get people to feel bad for her is just as boring. You can make her a maniac without making her dull.
