DC's "Suicide Squad" Casting Revealed
- Thread starter Jace911
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There was the Flash
But I'm pretty sure he mysteriously ceased to exist over the course of the movie, only to return to existence once it ended
Maybe he was busy going back in time to send Bruce a message in Justice League?
Arcman
Heh
So I had a crazy idea - what if, as an alternate interpretation of the movie, you imagine the whole thing as either being entirely a figment of Harley Quinn's imagination; or the movie is a series of events that did happen, but the movie as we got it is the "As told by Harley Quinn" version of events? Like Harley Quinn Suicide Squad fan fiction or something or a villainous mission report of some kind.
ZerbanDaGreat
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tl;dr
"We cut every interesting scene that was in the trailers and for good measure we cut every other interesting scene we could get our hands on too."
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Have you forgotten Wreck-it Ralph? The squad are bad guys... but they are not bad guys. Or, to be specific, they're not evil like Enchantress or Waller. Killer Croc, for example, is a guy who if he was white would be Crocodile-Man or the Alligator Avenger, but because he's black is treated as a subhuman monster and cannibal- so he acts within those bounds without letting them cage him mentally ("I am beautiful"). Deadshot's main moral difference from Katana is that he's dispassionate about his targets but also doesn't torture them for eternity. Harley's an extremely sympathetic character because she's trapped in an abusive relationship but nobody will give her the support necessary to break out of it. El Diablo is, of course, the same kind of being as Enchantress or Incubus, but instead of displacing things onto an "alternate personality" he accepts responsibility for his powers. Captain Boomerang is closer to being genuinely evil, and he receives no reward.
Of course, the movie itself takes place in a kind of Purgatory, with Waller as God and Devil simultaneously. Good guys like Batman and the Flash are present only in their absence from the world the US military created with its desire to have a tamed Superman.
ZerbanDaGreat
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... uh
I think he's treated as a subhuman monster and a cannibal because he's a fucking man-shaped crocodile that eats people.
I mean like.
You do realise that it's hard to be racist towards someone for being black when their skin colour is 'green scales' right?
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It's not confirmed in the film that he eats people, since it, uh, gets a big question mark after it during his introduction. In fact, he doesn't do anything that any of the other characters don't do to the wardens, and is substantially more psychologically stable than any of the other characters. Now, I suppose we could argue that obviously he has to be a cannibal monster with brain damage because prison guards say so, just like how we believe cops when they say they're worried about someone "hulking out" and treat it as credible.
Saw it tonight. Bored as fuck. Three lines/scenes made me chuckle. The rest was just meh or cringe.
I did actually laugh at the bar scene, but I don't think that was something they meant to be funny. It was just so hamfisted and blunt-force trauma, like all of the "backstory" or "character-traits" we're shown. Or exposited at. Captain "Exposition" Flagg. Thank you for all two lines about Katana we get.
I don't know what the hell Leto was doing, but I don't think that "gangbanger in clown paint" with zero menace is a good performance for the Joker.
Nicholson, Ledger, Hamill, and DiMaggio were all different Jokers, but I could buy them as Joker. They were menacing in their own ways.
This "Joker" was just some idiot thug with what people claim is charisma enough to sway people. I couldn't see him as a threat to Batman, or even just normal cops. So when Waller was talking about them being the King and Queen of Gotham, it was all I could do to contain the "BULLSHIT." that was yearning to come out. So I suppose he could be called Joker, because that's what he was, a fucking joke.
The putty fights were meh, though the eventual treatment of Flagg as that one fucking escort mission was amusing.
Waller was good until about halfway, then I just started wondering where the drive and cunning all went. Because there was some serious fondling of the Idiot Ball going on.
And I never once bought that the squad was a "family" or a "team" despite how much they shoveled it. Or that Deadshot wouldn't have totally shot Harley in the face for what Waller was offering. Which turned one of the amusing parts of the movie into an stupid one.
I'm annoyed at the movie because it wasn't good and didn't have the decency to be bad enough to enjoy. It was just meh. Utterly forgettable and not worth a rewatch.
I did actually laugh at the bar scene, but I don't think that was something they meant to be funny. It was just so hamfisted and blunt-force trauma, like all of the "backstory" or "character-traits" we're shown. Or exposited at. Captain "Exposition" Flagg. Thank you for all two lines about Katana we get.
I don't know what the hell Leto was doing, but I don't think that "gangbanger in clown paint" with zero menace is a good performance for the Joker.
Nicholson, Ledger, Hamill, and DiMaggio were all different Jokers, but I could buy them as Joker. They were menacing in their own ways.
This "Joker" was just some idiot thug with what people claim is charisma enough to sway people. I couldn't see him as a threat to Batman, or even just normal cops. So when Waller was talking about them being the King and Queen of Gotham, it was all I could do to contain the "BULLSHIT." that was yearning to come out. So I suppose he could be called Joker, because that's what he was, a fucking joke.
The putty fights were meh, though the eventual treatment of Flagg as that one fucking escort mission was amusing.
Waller was good until about halfway, then I just started wondering where the drive and cunning all went. Because there was some serious fondling of the Idiot Ball going on.
And I never once bought that the squad was a "family" or a "team" despite how much they shoveled it. Or that Deadshot wouldn't have totally shot Harley in the face for what Waller was offering. Which turned one of the amusing parts of the movie into an stupid one.
I'm annoyed at the movie because it wasn't good and didn't have the decency to be bad enough to enjoy. It was just meh. Utterly forgettable and not worth a rewatch.
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ZerbanDaGreat
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I... think you're really reaching to make this a race thing. All I know is that I'm pretty sure Killer Croc is actually a cannibal in the comics, and the fact remains that even in this movie he's still the kind of weird fuck who'd (according to a deleted scene) hawk up half-digested raw goat then pick the bigger bits out of the vomit to eat them again right in front of like a dozen people. Between that and his Monster Mash face can you really blame the average person for being 'racist' against him? Because the average black person may have different facial structure and melanin content than what your brain is programmed to find normal but at least they aren't lizards from the paleolithic era asking for about tree fiddy.
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With regards to Croc's cannibaIism, I don't recall seeing anyone else chow down on warden vol-en-vaunt in the prison scene, but I could be wrong. Now, there is an important difference between eating someone and murdering them with your predator-jaws, but from the perspective of the gnawed-on, I'm comfortable calling it academic.
And I don't see a lot of difference between Katana and Deadshot, either. Deadshot murders people because mob bosses want them dead (as long as they're not young or female people, apparently), and Katana is willing to murder people for being vaguely associated with whatever happened to her husband. They're not quite as loathsome as Harley's random murder or Boomerang's callous, directed murder, but it's all murder.
And on that note, I really don't feel a lot of sympathy for Harley. Maybe it's because I just saw the recent Killing Joke animated bit, or maybe it's because her character intro made it clear she was cooperating with Joker every step of the way, but I feel a lot more sympathy with Random Orderlies #1 thru #20 who died because she thought it would be a great idea to smuggle a machine gun into Arkham for her puddin'. She's clearly not trapped; hell, she gets over the apparent death of the Joker faster and more thoroughly than most people handle a rough break-up. It was clear to me that she does what she does for the exact same reason the Joker; she likes it, and doesn't care about anyone that she hurts in the process.
And I don't see a lot of difference between Katana and Deadshot, either. Deadshot murders people because mob bosses want them dead (as long as they're not young or female people, apparently), and Katana is willing to murder people for being vaguely associated with whatever happened to her husband. They're not quite as loathsome as Harley's random murder or Boomerang's callous, directed murder, but it's all murder.
And on that note, I really don't feel a lot of sympathy for Harley. Maybe it's because I just saw the recent Killing Joke animated bit, or maybe it's because her character intro made it clear she was cooperating with Joker every step of the way, but I feel a lot more sympathy with Random Orderlies #1 thru #20 who died because she thought it would be a great idea to smuggle a machine gun into Arkham for her puddin'. She's clearly not trapped; hell, she gets over the apparent death of the Joker faster and more thoroughly than most people handle a rough break-up. It was clear to me that she does what she does for the exact same reason the Joker; she likes it, and doesn't care about anyone that she hurts in the process.
VolantRedX
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Well he does eat raw meet and requested to be locked in the sewer rather than a normal cell. Also it seems strange to think of Croc as a black person. I mean do we actually have any proof that he would be black if he wasn't a giant lizard man? Sure he was played by a black actor but that doesn't mean the character was black.
Have you ever read Brian Azzarello's take on the character? That seems to be what he was going for. Where Joker seems at first to be pretty basic thug, but deep down is willing and able to do things that simply wouldn't occur to a sane person. I feel if they left more scenes with him in that would become clearer.
You know people keep saying Waller was a moron, but I don't see why. I mean break down her actions in the movie. Enchantress takes over Moon in her sleep, something no one knew could happen, Flagg the guy supposed to warn people if such a thing happened didn't do anything. Enchantress manages to free her brother due to Flagg not sounding the alarm. Waller than sends the best asset she has against this new threat. When that asset slips her leash she immediately tries to destroy the threat, but fails thanks to not knowing the nature of the new threat. Task Force X is than sent in to extract her, and would have accomplished their mission no problem had the Joker not jumped in. She's then shot down, captured and used by Enchantress to extract information. Where in this series of events was she stupid or a failure? At worst she acted rashly with incomplete information and lost control of a being older than most human civilization.
DracoDracul
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I find it insane how much WB cuts in post production. Like there were several subplots cut from Star Wars Episode VII, but from what I can tell they were cut prior to filming as the deleted scenes on the DVD amount to five minutes that are mostly insert scenes and one relatively small action set piece
VolantRedX
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I honestly am starting to blame the writers and script editors. Like I know scripts tend to be far longer than what gets put on screen, but come on. This is another DC movie where it was clear that they're working from a script that is way too long. They need to get people that can cut down the shooting scripts into something that has a chance of being paced even remotely well. Like it doesn't matter if you have the best editors in the world. No one can turn a 3 and half hour movie into a 2 hour movie and have any chance of not leaving out key moments.
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I didn't get that at all. To use a term from D&D, he didn't come of as insane, he came off as someone who plays chaotic neutral poorly. Because lol so randum. And I don't think more scenes would fix that enough to make him anything but an irritation I want off-screen as soon as he comes on-screen.
Why is she even still in the city? Why is she working with people that don't have clearance in the first place, thus "requiring" her to kill them.
She's written to be worse than the group of murderers and psychos so we feel sympathetic for them, and it's done poorly.
And the thing is, she's not a heartless person. She's driven and cunning as all get out, as that's how she's gotten where she has, and why she's called "The Wall." But she's not one to just up and murder all of her subordinates. It's a scene that comes out of left field and makes no fucking sense.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
Because they were likely cleared for some stuff but as events got out of hand they ended up seeing too much.
I admit that I don't know much about Waller, but her killing her underlings totally fit her character here. She'd have to be pretty fucking cold to be a horror story that black-ops swap around.
She manages that just fine without killing underlings for fuckall reasons. Here it just makes her look like she's incompetent and covering her ass.
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VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
She was trying to keep shit covered up. That's why it's called a cover up. Because people try to cover shit up by destroying all evidence and witnesses.
That works for people who don't work for you. If you keep doing it with people who do, well that's how you get people to jump ship.
The Waller of the last third of the movie isn't menacing, she's an incentive to switch sides.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
Not if they're dead. It's not like she advertises that she's willing to kill you if you see too much and are seen as a security risk to the government.
poaw
The opposite of Doja Cat
I think the character of Waller tripped up the writers because her animated and comic book representations are so at odds with the reigning cultural feelings of today.
Her other incarnations involve her being a competent, ruthlessly pragmatic, and unflappable government bureaucrat. The kind of person who, if left in charge of say...the Department of Transportation, would ensure all the trains ran on time. But she's not in charge of the DoT because, fuck the trains, a private citizen created a city destroying monster that is impervious to nukes and a few months before that extraterrestrials tried to terraform Earth with all of us still on it. She's ultimately comes across as dated in the post-Snowden world; where before people didn't like the hammer of government intelligence agencies because it occasionally hit people's thumbs, but they trusted that it was never intentional and the nails needed to be hammered.
So now she has to represent the maliciously opaque, in both motivations and methods, view of American intelligence agencies that people have now. With that comes the fact that she has to be made a greater villain than Suicide Squad themselves, so they have to do things that make her actively unsympathetic. Without doing so, she's just a hard-ass tasked with corralling a bunch of scumbags into doing something good; which audiences would likely have trouble with, because it's a fundamentally sympathetic portrayal of something they're not willing to sympathize with. It's tonally confusing and people respond negatively to that sort of thing.
We get instead an Amanda Waller who does things just to make her dislikable, instead of the arch pragmatist we get someone who just comes across as petty and cruel, and they have to ensure she gets her comeuppance, so they put her in a situation where the "real" Amanda Waller would never find herself. Which is a shame because that means the writers are already painting themselves into a corner concerning her in the future.
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Concerning why she didn't just use Aquaman/The Flash/Batman for her team: probably because she hadn't (and likely couldn't) catch them. She doesn't want a group of super friends, she needs people she can leverage into doing exactly what she wants. Dumping a hitman with a phonebook sized bodycount into a blacksite is one thing, it is quite another to shove Bruce Wayne in there. They could barely catch the guys they had, how the hell are they going to get The Flash in there? The guards have to go full on riot control to move individual prisoners out of their cells, what would stop Wonder Woman from kicking a guard through the roof and jumping out of the hole?
She's stuck using the metahumans she can (almost) control. Not the most powerful that she's aware of.
I am honestly rather glad they reworked the Harley joker relationship through the cuts. The two of them together should have a massive impact on Harley, and having her successfully rebel against his influence in the first film they showed up for would have felt kind of easy to me. Especially without any other real support structure or someone to fill the Poison Ivy role.
Arcman
Heh
I'd prefer it to show the more abusive side to it, to give Harley a reason to break away at a later movie, instead of going the true wuv love route.