There was the FlashOr did this movie genuinely fail to back up Harley's claim of "We're the bad guys!" by forgetting to include any good guys whatsoever?
tl;dr
And...goddamnit, Waller.
Just came to another horrible realization. The reason Waller needed extraction was that she stayed behind. The reason she stayed behind is that she wanted details on the mook-conversion process...which she plainly had no intentions of actually sharing in a useful manner, since she wiped drives and murdered witnesses.
I know that Waller in the comics is characterized as being the Hard Woman making Hard Choices for Patriotism, but this incarnation of her was 100% interested in getting information on how to mutate civvies into super-mooks to fill out her own private army. There is no reasonable explanation for her personally staying behind and not, you know, evaccing early and bringing in an actual team with expertise on observing metahumans.
---
And now that I think about it, I realize the source of the massive disengagement I had with this movie walking out of the theater. The short version is Literally Everyone Sucks.
The Squad? Well, as the preview said: "Shoots people. Burns people. Stabs people. Eats people." The only member of the Squad who don't get their straight-up murder on are Slipknot and the Enchantress's host body, and neither of them are real characters.
The gaolers? Well, either they're running an illegal off-the-books black site on American soil...or laws about prisoner treatment and detention have gotten liberal enough that they're footsoldiers in a tyranny.
Which brings us to the military members we've seen! We get Flag's lovely sanctioning of Waller's murder of her loyal tech crew, and the strong implication that he's done similar himself. He and his team took an oath to defend the Constitution, and that oath does not exempt you from the inconvenient bits like the Thirteenth Amendment.
I barely even need to mention Joker, Waller, Enchantress, and Incubus, but yeah, all evil in varying shades of body-count, and remarkable similarities in terms of methods and results.
Even Batman comes across as an asshole for working with Waller in the end credits scene.
Hell, Deadshot's daughter has come to terms with his murdery profession by the end, and while it's true that there could be reasonable and legitimate reasons for him to be shooting people from atop a building, she damn well shouldn't be cheerful about it.
Literally the only non-extra cast members whose actions don't make me cringe are the heroic transit officer and physician who do their best to tend to Incubus's host as Incubus is being born, and they are horrible killed for it.
Am I missing anyone? Or did this movie genuinely fail to back up Harley's claim of "We're the bad guys!" by forgetting to include any good guys whatsoever?
... uhKiller Croc, for example, is a guy who if he was white would be Crocodile-Man or the Alligator Avenger, but because he's black is treated as a subhuman monster and cannibal- so he acts within those bounds without letting them cage him mentally ("I am beautiful").
... uh
I think he's treated as a subhuman monster and a cannibal because he's a fucking man-shaped crocodile that eats people.
I mean like.
You do realise that it's hard to be racist towards someone for being black when their skin colour is 'green scales' right?
I... think you're really reaching to make this a race thing. All I know is that I'm pretty sure Killer Croc is actually a cannibal in the comics, and the fact remains that even in this movie he's still the kind of weird fuck who'd (according to a deleted scene) hawk up half-digested raw goat then pick the bigger bits out of the vomit to eat them again right in front of like a dozen people. Between that and his Monster Mash face can you really blame the average person for being 'racist' against him? Because the average black person may have different facial structure and melanin content than what your brain is programmed to find normal but at least they aren't lizards from the paleolithic era asking for about tree fiddy.It's not confirmed in the film that he eats people, since it, uh, gets a big question mark after it during his introduction. In fact, he doesn't do anything that any of the other characters don't do to the wardens, and is substantially more psychologically stable than any of the other characters. Now, I suppose we could argue that obviously he has to be a cannibal monster with brain damage because prison guards say so, just like how we believe cops when they say they're worried about someone "hulking out" and treat it as credible.
Well he does eat raw meet and requested to be locked in the sewer rather than a normal cell. Also it seems strange to think of Croc as a black person. I mean do we actually have any proof that he would be black if he wasn't a giant lizard man? Sure he was played by a black actor but that doesn't mean the character was black.It's not confirmed in the film that he eats people, since it, uh, gets a big question mark after it during his introduction. In fact, he doesn't do anything that any of the other characters don't do to the wardens, and is substantially more psychologically stable than any of the other characters. Now, I suppose we could argue that obviously he has to be a cannibal monster with brain damage because prison guards say so, just like how we believe cops when they say they're worried about someone "hulking out" and treat it as credible.
Have you ever read Brian Azzarello's take on the character? That seems to be what he was going for. Where Joker seems at first to be pretty basic thug, but deep down is willing and able to do things that simply wouldn't occur to a sane person. I feel if they left more scenes with him in that would become clearer.I don't know what the hell Leto was doing, but I don't think that "gangbanger in clown paint" with zero menace is a good performance for the Joker.
Nicholson, Ledger, Hamill, and DiMaggio were all different Jokers, but I could buy them as Joker. They were menacing in their own ways.
This "Joker" was just some idiot thug with what people claim is charisma enough to sway people. I couldn't see him as a threat to Batman, or even just normal cops. So when Waller was talking about them being the King and Queen of Gotham, it was all I could do to contain the "BULLSHIT." that was yearning to come out. So I suppose he could be called Joker, because that's what he was, a fucking joke.
You know people keep saying Waller was a moron, but I don't see why. I mean break down her actions in the movie. Enchantress takes over Moon in her sleep, something no one knew could happen, Flagg the guy supposed to warn people if such a thing happened didn't do anything. Enchantress manages to free her brother due to Flagg not sounding the alarm. Waller than sends the best asset she has against this new threat. When that asset slips her leash she immediately tries to destroy the threat, but fails thanks to not knowing the nature of the new threat. Task Force X is than sent in to extract her, and would have accomplished their mission no problem had the Joker not jumped in. She's then shot down, captured and used by Enchantress to extract information. Where in this series of events was she stupid or a failure? At worst she acted rashly with incomplete information and lost control of a being older than most human civilization.Waller was good until about halfway, then I just started wondering where the drive and cunning all went. Because there was some serious fondling of the Idiot Ball going on.
I find it insane how much WB cuts in post production. Like there were several subplots cut from Star Wars Episode VII, but from what I can tell they were cut prior to filming as the deleted scenes on the DVD amount to five minutes that are mostly insert scenes and one relatively small action set piece
I honestly am starting to blame the writers and script editors. Like I know scripts tend to be far longer than what gets put on screen, but come on. This is another DC movie where it was clear that they're working from a script that is way too long. They need to get people that can cut down the shooting scripts into something that has a chance of being paced even remotely well. Like it doesn't matter if you have the best editors in the world. No one can turn a 3 and half hour movie into a 2 hour movie and have any chance of not leaving out key moments.I find it insane how much WB cuts in post production. Like there were several subplots cut from Star Wars Episode VII, but from what I can tell they were cut prior to filming as the deleted scenes on the DVD amount to five minutes that are mostly insert scenes and one relatively small action set piece
I didn't get that at all. To use a term from D&D, he didn't come of as insane, he came off as someone who plays chaotic neutral poorly. Because lol so randum. And I don't think more scenes would fix that enough to make him anything but an irritation I want off-screen as soon as he comes on-screen.Have you ever read Brian Azzarello's take on the character? That seems to be what he was going for. Where Joker seems at first to be pretty basic thug, but deep down is willing and able to do things that simply wouldn't occur to a sane person. I feel if they left more scenes with him in that would become clearer.
Why is she even still in the city? Why is she working with people that don't have clearance in the first place, thus "requiring" her to kill them.You know people keep saying Waller was a moron, but I don't see why. I mean break down her actions in the movie. Enchantress takes over Moon in her sleep, something no one knew could happen, Flagg the guy supposed to warn people if such a thing happened didn't do anything. Enchantress manages to free her brother due to Flagg not sounding the alarm. Waller than sends the best asset she has against this new threat. When that asset slips her leash she immediately tries to destroy the threat, but fails thanks to not knowing the nature of the new threat. Task Force X is than sent in to extract her, and would have accomplished their mission no problem had the Joker not jumped in. She's then shot down, captured and used by Enchantress to extract information. Where in this series of events was she stupid or a failure? At worst she acted rashly with incomplete information and lost control of a being older than most human civilization.
Because they were likely cleared for some stuff but as events got out of hand they ended up seeing too much.Why is she working with people that don't have clearance in the first place, thus "requiring" her to kill them.
I admit that I don't know much about Waller, but her killing her underlings totally fit her character here. She'd have to be pretty fucking cold to be a horror story that black-ops swap around.She's written to be worse than the group of murderers and psychos so we feel sympathetic for them, and it's done poorly.
And the thing is, she's not a heartless person. She's driven and cunning as all get out, as that's how she's gotten where she has, and why she's called "The Wall." But she's not one to just up and murder all of her subordinates. It's a scene that comes out of left field and makes no fucking sense.
She manages that just fine without killing underlings for fuckall reasons. Here it just makes her look like she's incompetent and covering her ass.I admit that I don't know much about Waller, but her killing her underlings totally fit her character here. She'd have to be pretty fucking cold to be a horror story that black-ops swap around.
She was trying to keep shit covered up. That's why it's called a cover up. Because people try to cover shit up by destroying all evidence and witnesses.She manages that just fine without killing underlings for fuckall reasons. Here it just makes her look like she's incompetent and covering her ass.
That works for people who don't work for you. If you keep doing it with people who do, well that's how you get people to jump ship.She was trying to keep shit covered up. That's why it's called a cover up. Because people try to cover shit up by destroying all evidence and witnesses.
Not if they're dead. It's not like she advertises that she's willing to kill you if you see too much and are seen as a security risk to the government.That works for people who don't work for you. If you keep doing it with people who do, well that's how you get people to jump ship.
The Waller of the last third of the movie isn't menacing, she's an incentive to switch sides.
And...goddamnit, Waller.
Just came to another horrible realization. The reason Waller needed extraction was that she stayed behind. The reason she stayed behind is that she wanted details on the mook-conversion process...which she plainly had no intentions of actually sharing in a useful manner, since she wiped drives and murdered witnesses.
I know that Waller in the comics is characterized as being the Hard Woman making Hard Choices for Patriotism, but this incarnation of her was 100% interested in getting information on how to mutate civvies into super-mooks to fill out her own private army. There is no reasonable explanation for her personally staying behind and not, you know, evaccing early and bringing in an actual team with expertise on observing metahumans.
I am honestly rather glad they reworked the Harley joker relationship through the cuts. The two of them together should have a massive impact on Harley, and having her successfully rebel against his influence in the first film they showed up for would have felt kind of easy to me. Especially without any other real support structure or someone to fill the Poison Ivy role.