tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
- Location
- The Center of the Universe: Toronto, Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, maybe the fact he was doing it in an alleyway was making him a wee bit uncomfortable.
DC's "Suicide Squad" Casting Revealed
- Thread starter Jace911
- Start date
- Movies
Zooboss
The White Tree
- Location
- Minas Tirith
So I watched this with my sister and for some reason she loved it.
I did not.
I did not.
So there were a ton of things that didn't make sense to me.
Why didn't Waller put the brothers heart in an explosive case?
Why didn't Waller destroy Enchantress's heart?
Why can Harley Quinn's baseball bat kill zombie's but flag's gun can't do it from two feet away?
Why does Waller murder her people?
Why was Katana even there? I thought the soul eating katana was a Chekovs Sword that would kill the brother. But no, it did nothing.
What did Slipknot and Boomerang do?
Why are Deadshot's guns so much powerful than the military's?
Why didn't they call the Flash to deliver the bomb?
Did Enchantress seriously think people thought that was a machine rather than a spell?
Why did she want Flag? What was the point of that relationship?
Why didn't Waller put the brothers heart in an explosive case?
Why didn't Waller destroy Enchantress's heart?
Why can Harley Quinn's baseball bat kill zombie's but flag's gun can't do it from two feet away?
Why does Waller murder her people?
Why was Katana even there? I thought the soul eating katana was a Chekovs Sword that would kill the brother. But no, it did nothing.
What did Slipknot and Boomerang do?
Why are Deadshot's guns so much powerful than the military's?
Why didn't they call the Flash to deliver the bomb?
Did Enchantress seriously think people thought that was a machine rather than a spell?
Why did she want Flag? What was the point of that relationship?
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
- Pronouns
- They/them
TBH if the Flash already exists in this world, and not just in the not-so-distant-future like I hear BvS implied, then the movie's premise is yet again rendered invalid. Because the Flash would've run over from Central City, ORAORAORA'd Enchantress into the stratosphere, then Infinite Mass Fisted her brother, then turned off the Sky Anus by running around it really fast, then stolenbought everyone pizza before the opening credits were done.
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Zooboss
The White Tree
- Location
- Minas Tirith
He does exist. He's the reason Boomerang was caught.
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
- Pronouns
- They/them
I guess Waller and the government don't just ask the Flash to do things for them because they hate success.
tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
- Location
- The Center of the Universe: Toronto, Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's another thing that made me wonder in the movie. If you have data on a bunch of heroes and Psychotic metahumans, why the fuck would you try to use the crazies instead of the people who are actually know to do good.
Then again, Waller seems to operate on Evil Goverment logic, where they are unable to achieve anything unless some form of broken morality is involved, like say, gunning down a bunch of employees who knew too much, like a tinpot dictatorship or some evil corporation would do.
I would just love to see MCU Nick Fury's face if he heard about what Waller did this movie.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
You could ask why the big name heroes don't get involved in every comic book plot ever. Yes, the Flash could have saved the day, but this isn't the Flash movie. As for why Waller used criminals instead of heroes, because she can control the criminals. They have been stripped of their rights so no one would stop her from planting bombs in their necks and sending them on Suicide missions as a Squad.
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
- Pronouns
- They/them
A) "It's a problem in other things" isn't an excuse when you keep doing it.
B) The actual excuse is that normally Superheroes are too geographically diverse to possibly respond in time to local threats (unlike Marvel NYC which seemingly has one Superhero per city block).
But (discounting Superdead) the Flash can break that rule because the fucker can run faster than light. He can be at any point on the planet at any time if he feels like it. By the time you've called him he has arrived before there was a problem and punched everyone. And also studied architecture and collected raw materials and rebuilt all the buildings that got demolished and got them certified as up to code and put in fresh furniture and moved all the families back in each with a mint on their pillow. I'm not joking, by the way. That's literally something the Flash did once.
I dunno what city Suicide Squad takes place in, but even if it were Antarctica, the moment Waller said 'get me the Flash' Enchantress would already be in a cell with a polite note attached.
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Suicide Squad's Amanda Waller is the kind of person who goes "yes I know the xenomorph has destroyed every previous initiative and killed the entire staff but this time we're using orphans to incubate Chestbursters and then we're going to waterboard them too so it's alright then".
Which is shitty 'cause I really liked her Justice League incarnation where she was often an antagonist yeah, and diametrically opposed to the goals and values of the League, but was rarely an absolute villain and ultimately was willing to set aside her own ego and re-evaluate decisions as new information emerged.
The Suicide Squad works best for something dirty and deniable but ultimately smaller level.
"I need you to kill X businessman."
"I need you to steal Y documents."
Even "I need you to break into Z quarantine zone and extract Dr. Chucklefuck" would be within the bounds of stuff they're suited for. When it's a big doomsday plot and you've established, in this very movie, that there's someone out there enormously qualified to deal with fuckoff huge doomsday plots, "why isn't he here?" is an entirely valid question.
DC wants to have it both ways. They want to tease and set up future movies but they want you to focus on this character lineup too. Marvel teasers were exactly that. Teasers. They were quick blink-and-you'll-miss-it (like the military using Stark-tech to constrain the Hulk) or happened at the end of the movie. DC slows shit down so that you can properly cream your pants but also doesn't want you to ask questions like "so why can the Flash stop a glorified diamond thief but not a puckered cosmic sky-anus".
Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
Waller was basically responsible for every horrible thing that happened in this movie. She may not hate Success but she sure seems to love failure.
I honestly would not have had a problem with Deadshot shooting the phone out of her hand and then putting a bullet in her head at the end of the movie. And I can believe Katana, Flag, and the Doctor lady would let him walk after that.
Waller is, quite literally, the greatest threat to US national security in the entire movie and goes to extensive efforts to ensure she doesn't face consequence for her actions so she can do it again. That's someone too dangerous to let live.
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- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Well, some of these were at least implied, so I put my answers in the box (and my own big question).
Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
I also have problems with the movie. But in order.
She apparently didn't have the brother's heart which seems to still be inside of him.
It's possible that whatever Incubus did to protect his sister also protected her heart. Sympathetic magic?
This is a legit complaint. It's pretty much a contrivance to explain why a girl in fish nets and hot pants is slaughtering zombies while a whole platoon of seals struggle.
Waller was covering her own ass. The whole enchantress incident is literally her fault and the people in that room, besides flag, are the only ones with any credibility who could bring her down.
It was a Chekov's sword though. Harley used it to cut out Enchantress' heart.
Boomerang robbed a shit load of banks and probably killed a shitload of people. Slipknot was there pretty much just to illustrate that the detonators were real. So nobody cares what he actually did.
During the range scene notice how he manages to hit the same target over and over again with absolutely zero spread? That's why his guns are more effective. It's not the guns it's him hitting the same pinpoint target repeatedly.
One possibility is that the flash would have sought to get to the bottom of this. And Waller couldn't have that since it would come out that she'd been keeping a world ending monster on her bookshelf.
I don't see why this one matters. She used magic, rather than the laws of physics, to create a world destroying device. She did it for her own satisfaction not necessarily as a take that to her victims.
I'm guessing because Doctor was till inside of her (literally, she peel Enchantress off of her like a skin at the end) and was being influenced enough to want him as a bobble. I get the feeling this was set up for a plot point that got dropped.
It's possible that whatever Incubus did to protect his sister also protected her heart. Sympathetic magic?
This is a legit complaint. It's pretty much a contrivance to explain why a girl in fish nets and hot pants is slaughtering zombies while a whole platoon of seals struggle.
Waller was covering her own ass. The whole enchantress incident is literally her fault and the people in that room, besides flag, are the only ones with any credibility who could bring her down.
It was a Chekov's sword though. Harley used it to cut out Enchantress' heart.
Boomerang robbed a shit load of banks and probably killed a shitload of people. Slipknot was there pretty much just to illustrate that the detonators were real. So nobody cares what he actually did.
During the range scene notice how he manages to hit the same target over and over again with absolutely zero spread? That's why his guns are more effective. It's not the guns it's him hitting the same pinpoint target repeatedly.
One possibility is that the flash would have sought to get to the bottom of this. And Waller couldn't have that since it would come out that she'd been keeping a world ending monster on her bookshelf.
I don't see why this one matters. She used magic, rather than the laws of physics, to create a world destroying device. She did it for her own satisfaction not necessarily as a take that to her victims.
I'm guessing because Doctor was till inside of her (literally, she peel Enchantress off of her like a skin at the end) and was being influenced enough to want him as a bobble. I get the feeling this was set up for a plot point that got dropped.
Yeah but there's a giant ring of swirly energy in the sky over a major US city for 3 fucking days and the Flash never thinks to check up on that shit on his own initiative, not even once it starts blowing up military facilities and aircraft carriers around the world?
I mean ok, Superman is gone, Batman is too far away and so is Wonder Woman and they can't realisticly reach every hotspot (even when they have 3 fucking days to do so). But the Flash does'nt have those excuses. The fact he fights some scrub on the level of Boomerang shows he's not realy that busy with imminent world-destroying threats, he can spare the couple minutes at most it would take him to come here and sort this shit out.
Instead we're left with a pyromancer who does'nt want to use his power, a mutant with slight superstrength and good swimming skills, a dude who throws boomerangs, a cliche as hell Japanese chick with a supposedly magic sword that does nothing to actualy help her kill people better than a normal sharp piece of metal, a sniper and a lunatic with a baseball bat to stop the world-ending disaster.
Fucking what.
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VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
You guys are missing the point, The Flash doesn't do anything because that's not how Comic books work. If you don't like it fine, but then maybe this genre isn't for you.
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
/me went to watch it, mildly hyped.
/me saw a fun popcorn movie about comic villains.
/me found this thread complaining about the breaks from reality which are normally considered standard for the comic book/film genre.
Gee, and I thought I'm the one who tends to nitpick stuff that is considered in-genre.
/me saw a fun popcorn movie about comic villains.
/me found this thread complaining about the breaks from reality which are normally considered standard for the comic book/film genre.
Gee, and I thought I'm the one who tends to nitpick stuff that is considered in-genre.
Oh well, at least I'm not alone.
Zooboss
The White Tree
- Location
- Minas Tirith
Maybe I goofed, but the brother's heart thing: why wasn't the case thing (used to free him by Enchantress) protected in a way to her heart? It was relatively out in the open when you consider that teleporters exist in this universe.
Waller also does a terrible job at reducing liability because she somehow slept through the call with Flag. But that's more understandable.
Oh, and regarding Flag: why did Enchantress want him? The zombies kept trying to drag him away because....? He ended up doing nothing in the fight.
Deadshot's super aim doesn't explain away why his guns killed zombies when Flags guns did nothing. Or why even Boomerangs hurt the zombies while they ignored normal human bullets. Waller even mentions something about them being able to withstand headshots.
I did forget about Katana's sword cutting out the heart, but when she cut off brother's hand I didn't think the soul stealing sword would leave wounds that he could regenerate past. But that's my own problem.
Waller also does a terrible job at reducing liability because she somehow slept through the call with Flag. But that's more understandable.
You're right. That's not how it works. Waller's plan was to get extracted with the help of Suicide Squad then send them back to prison. How did she plan to stop the apocalyptic machine? Apparently that was not part of the original plan (see the request for an extraction before stopping it). We're they just going to let them do whatever?
Oh, and regarding Flag: why did Enchantress want him? The zombies kept trying to drag him away because....? He ended up doing nothing in the fight.
Deadshot's super aim doesn't explain away why his guns killed zombies when Flags guns did nothing. Or why even Boomerangs hurt the zombies while they ignored normal human bullets. Waller even mentions something about them being able to withstand headshots.
I did forget about Katana's sword cutting out the heart, but when she cut off brother's hand I didn't think the soul stealing sword would leave wounds that he could regenerate past. But that's my own problem.
DracoDracul
Bigender Communist
- Location
- Austin
- Pronouns
- She/They
Normally, the suicide squad in the comics is used for Black Ops missions. The kind of things that most heroes wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. The problem this film seems to be having is that the mission is a fairly standard save the city/world kind of affair that most heroes would do and that because of how much darker they made the DCCU, it's hard to believe that heroes would be unwilling to do black ops.
Which says to me that the people in charge really don't get Waller. Even with all the morally doubious things Waller does, almost everything she is for what she sees as the good of the nation and the world. Waller's song shouldn't be Sympathy for the Devil it should be Road to Hell.
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TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No, see, you don't get to pull that card. You're right that a movie, especially a genre movie like this, gets to set its own rules for how the world works. That's cool. That's fine. But there's sort of a deal with that, a contract bound up in that, you get to write your own rules but you have to play by them too. Not even for the audience's benefit, for your own. And if you break them there needs to be a good reason for it. 'Cause otherwise you're just going to get a tangled, increasingly incoherent mess where we as the audience don't even have a good grasp of the stakes of the conflict.
Like:
DC: "This is a world filled with superheroes and supervillains and superheroes show up to fight crime and fix problems."
Audience: "Oh neato, so why are there only villains to deal with this pretty standard superhero problem?"
DC: "Look bro it's just a comic, that's just how it works. If the Flash just showed up then there wouldn't be a plot."
Well maybe it isn't a great plot then.
These aren't nitpicks, nitpicks are largely inconsequential shit that ultimately doesn't really matter. These are individual problems that go hand in hand with the fact that there are significant structural issues to basically every part of this movie. From the plot to the pacing to the characters to the conflicts to the setting to the fucking background music there is not a single part of this film that didn't fuck it up somehow.
This movie doesn't have a few boo-boos it has a prolapsed anus.
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VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
Ok smart guy why doesn't Superman ever arrest Joker? Why doesn't the Flash punch out Lex Luthor? Where's Iron Man when Green Goblin is fucking shit up? Why doesn't Captain America ever deal with the Kingpin? Maybe it's because that's not how Comic books work.No, see, you don't get to pull that card. You're right that a movie, especially a genre movie like this, gets to set its own rules for how the world works. That's cool. That's fine. But there's sort of a deal with that, a contract bound up in that, you get to write your own rules but you have to play by them too. Not even for the audience's benefit, for your own. And if you break them there needs to be a good reason for it. 'Cause otherwise you're just going to get a tangled, increasingly incoherent mess where we don't even have a good grasp of the stakes of the conflict.
Like:
DC: "This is a world filled with superheroes and supervillains and superheroes show up to fight crime and fix problems."
Audience: "Oh neato, so why are there only villains to deal with this pretty standard superhero problem?"
DC: "Look bro it's just a comic, that's just how it works. If the Flash just showed up then there wouldn't be a plot."
Well maybe it isn't a great plot then.
These aren't nitpicks, nitpicks are largely inconsequential shit that ultimately doesn't really matter. These are individual problems that go hand in hand with the fact that there are significant structural issues to basically every part of this movie. From the plot to the pacing to the characters to the conflicts to the setting to the fucking background music there is not a single part of this film that didn't fuck it up somehow.
This movie doesn't have a few boo-boos it has a prolapsed anus.
Jace911
Spider-Dork
- Location
- The Gold-Bricking State
"Terrible writing" is not a staple of comic books or superhero films.
It's a common ailment, but that still doesn't excuse it.
serra2
Himouto! Sylvanas-chan
Even Antman asked why they couldn't call in the Avengers.No, see, you don't get to pull that card. You're right that a movie, especially a genre movie like this, gets to set its own rules for how the world works. That's cool. That's fine. But there's sort of a deal with that, a contract bound up in that, you get to write your own rules but you have to play by them too. Not even for the audience's benefit, for your own. And if you break them there needs to be a good reason for it. 'Cause otherwise you're just going to get a tangled, increasingly incoherent mess where we as the audience don't even have a good grasp of the stakes of the conflict.
Like:
DC: "This is a world filled with superheroes and supervillains and superheroes show up to fight crime and fix problems."
Audience: "Oh neato, so why are there only villains to deal with this pretty standard superhero problem?"
DC: "Look bro it's just a comic, that's just how it works. If the Flash just showed up then there wouldn't be a plot."
Well maybe it isn't a great plot then.
These aren't nitpicks, nitpicks are largely inconsequential shit that ultimately doesn't really matter. These are individual problems that go hand in hand with the fact that there are significant structural issues to basically every part of this movie. From the plot to the pacing to the characters to the conflicts to the setting to the fucking background music there is not a single part of this film that didn't fuck it up somehow.
This movie doesn't have a few boo-boos it has a prolapsed anus.
VolantRedX
Official Conscience of Worm Fanfiction!
The movie explains why Waller doesn't call the Flash. She doesn't trust metahumans and only puts faith in the Squad because she has power over them.
So, in some of the reviews I've read, one of the things that helped to dampen my enthusiasm (aside from the fact that it was yet another superhero movie about stopping a doomsday device) was the description of a scene from early on that vaguely reminded of the level of discomfort I felt from, say, that bit in Batman: Arkham Origins where Batman brutalizes and threatens to torture Black Mask, a man who, in his previous scene, had already been horrifyingly pistol-whipped and beaten into unconsciousness by the Joker.
Here's a description:
It this, at all, an accurate representation of how the scene plays out?
Here's a description:
Article: There's a brief pursuit before the Jokermobile plunges into the Gotham River, at which point Harley – who along with Will Smith's ace assassin Deadshot, is the closest thing Suicide Squad has to a main character – slips from the wreckage and pulls out a knife.
Batman responds by immediately punching her in the face, then dragging her unconscious body from the river and dumping it in the boot of his car. He leans over and administers the kind of mouth-to-mouth you can't imagine passing muster with the Red Cross – let's just say it looks like tongues are involved – then, when Harley comes around, he pins her to the ground, his black-gloved hand clasped around her throat.
In short, Warner Bros. are patterning the behaviour of perhaps the DC Comics franchise's single most valuable asset after a violent sex offender.
It this, at all, an accurate representation of how the scene plays out?
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- Location
- London, England
Well, I had fun while watching it, but that's about all I can really say.
If I had to critique once aspect of the film... yeah, I'd say pacing. Suicide Squad feels like a large number of individual scenes stitched together into an overall narrative. This, I think, is what leads to most of the film's problems, including the aforementioned issue with having the Flash show up in the prologue but not the climax.
Even the final climactic confrontation felt like two different scenes. Or maybe a multi-stage video game level. The first is the fight between the Brother and the Squad, where they all focus on him while the Enchantress stands around doing nothing in the back. Then he gets defeated, everyone else lines across the room facing the Enchantress, and her boss fight begins.
Individually, a lot of the scenes were actually pretty damn good. The movie just fails to properly weave them together into an overall narrative, so the whole thing just ends up feeling clunky and disjointed.
If I had to critique once aspect of the film... yeah, I'd say pacing. Suicide Squad feels like a large number of individual scenes stitched together into an overall narrative. This, I think, is what leads to most of the film's problems, including the aforementioned issue with having the Flash show up in the prologue but not the climax.
Even the final climactic confrontation felt like two different scenes. Or maybe a multi-stage video game level. The first is the fight between the Brother and the Squad, where they all focus on him while the Enchantress stands around doing nothing in the back. Then he gets defeated, everyone else lines across the room facing the Enchantress, and her boss fight begins.
Individually, a lot of the scenes were actually pretty damn good. The movie just fails to properly weave them together into an overall narrative, so the whole thing just ends up feeling clunky and disjointed.