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Dawn of Civilization (CK2 quest)

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Skjadir said:
The reason why i go with war to get more pop. is that
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Here's another reason why I'd rather not go to war to get pop:
Going to war to get pop. involves either a) taking slaves, or b) killing all of their men and stealing their wives and children.

This will negatively impact our tribe's culture, since we're taking in extremely unhappy people and making such an aggressive way of intaking people acceptable, and the standing our tribe has among our neighbors, making them more inclined to raid rather than trade with us.

Edit:
-It was theoretically normal in AN's game, it might not be normal in this one.
-Being the not!dick among a bunch of dicks is a good trait to have.
-Our low diplo doesn't matter because stats can be raised through effort, and what we have isn't cripplingly low, just less optimal than martial.
-Trade makes infrastructure and internal development more important, and is more reliable.
 
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Also i would like to point out that taking the war path will most definitely end in us losing men in the process so there is a chance we could end up losing more men than we gain.
 
Umi-san said:
Here's another reason why I'd rather not go to war to get pop:
Going to war to get pop. involves either a) taking slaves, or b) killing all of their men and stealing their wives and children.

This will negatively impact our tribe's culture, since we're taking in extremely unhappy people and making such an aggressive way of intaking people acceptable, and the standing our tribe has among our neighbors, making them more inclined to raid rather than trade with us.

Edit:
-It was theoretically normal in AN's game, it might not be normal in this one.
-Being the not!dick among a bunch of dicks is a good trait to have.
-Our low diplo doesn't matter because stats can be raised through effort, and what we have isn't cripplingly low, just less optimal than martial.
-Trade makes infrastructure and internal development more important, and is more reliable.
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... i don´t think it is a good idea to compare Paths of Civilization with this or most other quest just for the differences of control and the amount of time between the turn.
I see the nation we have going over there as pretty unrealistic as sad as it sounds.
Also stealling wifes and children is the core of these raids and was pretty normal in RL as far as i know the same for takeing slaves.
Also one thing to consider the overall amount of Pop. for the whole planet is most likely below 10 million.

These things were done because were useful / if they would be have been things that didn´t work people would have stop doing it pretty fast, the thing is they didn´t.

Here is a thing about trade for that time it makes sure that you will get hit sooner or later by an epedemic.
There are reasons why so many / almost all nations have a history of war.
 
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Skjadir said:
... i don´t think it is a good idea to compare Paths of Civilization with this or most other quest just for the differences of control and the amount of time between the turn.
I see the nation we have going over there as pretty unrealistic as sad as it sounds.
Also stealling wifes and children is the core of these raids and was pretty normal in RL as far as i know the same for takeing slaves.
Also one thing to consider the overall amount of Pop. for the whole planet is most likely below 10 million.

These things were done because were useful / if they would be have been things that didn´t work people would have stop doing it pretty fast, the thing is they didn´t.

Here is a thing about trade for that time it makes sure that you will get hit sooner or later by an epedemic.
There are reasons why so many / almost all nations have a history of war.
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Raiding is as likely to lead to epidemics, especially if we're raiding for wives.

All nations have a history of war, but whether that history of war was voluntarily is debatable. The vast majority of it was tit-for-tat blood feuds, and none of it was positive.

We live in a fantasy realm where we have magic. Is any of this more realistic than PoC?
 
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I think domestication and food preservation might be a better path for food. We are in the mountains so I imagine we need some sort of intensive farming method to get a decent yield. We can herd native goats (probably) which can survive here year around if we lead them to a rotation of pastures.

We may be able to jump to learning about back dirt which would make terraced beds workable.

I might also be misreading the terrain.
 
Umi-san said:
Raiding is as likely to lead to epidemics, especially if we're raiding for wives.

All nations have a history of war, but whether that history of war was voluntarily is debatable.

We live in a fantasy realm where we have magic. Is any of this more realistic than PoC?
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I consider the nations in PoC way to stable for one, that seems to be the side effect of atleast jumping 15 years per turn and the way traits / how wonders work.

I really done think that haveing magic would decrease the amount of war/ raiding.
I honestly think it would increase it by quite a bit*, as you can with a good magic raid people and have much less of an risk of something going wrong.

* Also not something to forget are the power trip that people can/will get if they are given power.

Uhtread said:
I think domestication and food preservation might be a better path for food. We are in the mountains so I imagine we need some sort of intensive farming method to get a decent yield. We can herd native goats (probably) which can survive here year around if we lead them to a rotation of pastures.

We may be able to jump to learning about back dirt which would make terraced beds workable.

I might also be misreading the terrain.
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We aren´t really "in" the mountains as i understand it, but more in the area where hill go over to the true mountains.
Also earth magic could really help us in getting better soil if we would just roll better on it ...
 
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Raptor580 said:
Alright. so i think its safe to assume we will likely try to focus on farming then at the beginning.
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Yep her also a nice info video about pop. growth in RL history and how low our overall pop. was before we started farming.


In regard to that and that i am not sure how long / if farming has started here yet.
I think the amount of pop.* we have is quite big most likely bigger than most groups.

* If you consider the overall amount of on the planet to be less than 10 m.

Umi-san said:
Farming and magic dev, imo. Getting a stable food supply is > having an easier time getting a stable food supply, tho.
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That is something that we can really agree on.
 
Well that video was interesting to say the least. so let me ask you guys this then what is the minimum pop you guys think we need.
 
Raptor580 said:
Well that video was interesting to say the least. so let me ask you guys this then what is the minimum pop you guys think we need.
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The general min. is about 4,169 individuals * (that is the general media for this -> Minimum viable population ).

That means at least for me that i won´t stop pushing for more pop and new blood before we hit at the very least 10k people and have "eat" some other tribes.


Edit: * the number can be low, but then you have a higher risk of extinction.
 
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Both good but lets take it one milestone at a time. I do agree we need a tremendously bigger pop but for now lets start by getting to 100 then 500 then 1000 and well see where we are by then.
 
Also let me ask this what are the chances that one there are other tribes near us and two they are dwarves.
 
Raptor580 said:
Also let me ask this what are the chances that one there are other tribes near us and two they are dwarves.
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We don´t know of any tribes near us.
From turn 1 results:
Void Stalker said:
In addition to hunting, some of your best trackers went out to see if there were any potential problems that may threaten your tribe. Coming back several time during the middle and late season they are happy to report that no other Clans are in the nearby area. Also having gone over your surroundings there is no natural pitfall waiting to happen to Clan Khazad. They do report however that there are more mountain cats in the nearby mountains than normal. No other tribes in close range (3 hexes of your tile). No natural disasters such as sinkholes or quicksand nearby. 2 to 3 tiles out there is a somewhat higher mountain cat population than normal.
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I honestly don´t know the chances most likely not very good.
Without farming you can´t settle down in the long term, so we will most likely see at least some travels that we can ether take over for more people aka new Blood or if we are lucky they are friendly and we can trade a tiny bit and hopefuly get some new blood as an side effect (this isn´t something i would be on if i am honest).
 
Skjadir said:
We don´t know of any tribes near us.
From turn 1 results:


I honestly don´t know the chances most likely not very good.
Without farming you can´t settle down in the long term, so we will most likely see at least some travels that we can ether take over for more people aka new Blood or if we are lucky they are friendly and we can trade a tiny bit and hopefuly get some new blood as an side effect (this isn´t something i would be on if i am honest).
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That was turn 1, and a lot of tribes are still migratory in ways so that can change and is something I am tracking in the background
 
Void Stalker said:
That was turn 1, and a lot of tribes are still migratory in ways so that can change and is something I am tracking in the background
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I just see the chance to see / find other tribes rather bad when i look at the RL over all pop for that time and where we live.

Edit: but it is nice to have a most likely higher chance than an crit event (ether bad or good) to see / talk with other people
 
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I am also curious as to what other races are out there besides us. Are there generic orcs, elves and such? will we be meeting trolls, giants, giant ( insert animal or insect here), and will they be friendly. What their culture be like compared to own and so forth?
 
Raptor580 said:
So ive been think what other races are there besides us.
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Void Stalker said:
Children of the Forest: The woods are your home. You know your area, every tree and shrub, every animal that may pass. Nimble and quick, you can hide from those that would stomp through the forest.
-Affinity to Wood magic
-Bonus to learning wood crafting
-Starting area likely to be good in wood resources and good hunting and gathering for food

Children of the Plains: Let others have their hills, their forests and their swamps. You have the wide open plains for your home. Able to see your foes coming, they will not see you in the tall grass.
-Affinity to Air magic
-Bonus to husbandry
-Starting area can have all resources, excellent hunting and gathering

Children of the Swamps: Damp and murky waters make your home. Most avoid it but for you and your people you thrive. Gliding through the water with webbed hands those who would encroach on your lands will be taken unawares.
-Affinity to Water magic
-Bonus to medicinal plants
-Starting area has excellent food potential, good for herb resources
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Elves, centaurs, and murlocs for starters.
 
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