Dark Prince of Camelot

What happened in the past certainly was, with a big T. In the present, though? We are still positioned to prevent the worst of it.

To put things in perspective, we know for certain that without us around, these people would die violent deaths, and soon - as all reincarnations did before them. It's pretty hard to do worse than that. Whatever unpleasantries that are happening between us do not really compare.

I'm certainly using tragedy in a broader sense than it normally would be, but I think it still stands.

Most stories and quests, you go into expecting your character to win. No matter what happens, you find it inevitable that the hero will defeat the villain in the end. They may lose everything, they my lose their own life, their cause may even need to be taken up by another to finish things, but the protagonist always wins in the even. In quests specifically, there are plenty of times where you may find yourself on the edge, but you always expect to be able to thread the needle well enough to survive.

That's changed over the course of this arc here. I, and others, don't really expect to make it. We can see that there is a chance to survive, but we have come to terms with the difficulty and have (to varying levels) internalized that we probably won't live, and if we do, we're just going to live through the horrible end. We'd either get to watch the Knights fall one by one to various causes, resulting in further deterioration of the mental states of the group and making more loss easier to occur. Or we get to have a nice climactic battle with one by one "heroic" sacrifices or getting to see the brutality of these fights with death being horrible and for nothing. Or maybe them all being killed to allow for the cycle to continue (or we have to destroy their souls to stop the cycle and the Forces of Darkness forever).


Hence this story being a tragedy in my mind's eye. I don't see things ending well.
 
I probably wouldn't have bothered getting invested at all in the beginning had I known that this was how Gally wanted to write the quest.

I really don't feel like anything we did back then mattered much given how basically everyone views us aside from Annabelle. So yay for that relationship, everything else is basically shit. (Of course, I also had my issues with how voting went back then as well, but that's another story.)

In fact, had we been given any inclination at all that Mordred's (and everyone's, yes) hang-ups were this bad, I would have pushed hard for what I'm pretty sure was one of those very early options to just bug the fuck out and try to run some other story elsewhere because everything about these relationships is basically irreconcilably toxic. Getting thrown back in as infiltration was fine when it was Anime Hijinx but such an incredibly bad idea now that things are being played straight.
 
I'm certainly using tragedy in a broader sense than it normally would be, but I think it still stands.

Most stories and quests, you go into expecting your character to win. No matter what happens, you find it inevitable that the hero will defeat the villain in the end. They may lose everything, they my lose their own life, their cause may even need to be taken up by another to finish things, but the protagonist always wins in the even. In quests specifically, there are plenty of times where you may find yourself on the edge, but you always expect to be able to thread the needle well enough to survive.

That's changed over the course of this arc here. I, and others, don't really expect to make it. We can see that there is a chance to survive, but we have come to terms with the difficulty and have (to varying levels) internalized that we probably won't live, and if we do, we're just going to live through the horrible end. We'd either get to watch the Knights fall one by one to various causes, resulting in further deterioration of the mental states of the group and making more loss easier to occur. Or we get to have a nice climactic battle with one by one "heroic" sacrifices or getting to see the brutality of these fights with death being horrible and for nothing. Or maybe them all being killed to allow for the cycle to continue (or we have to destroy their souls to stop the cycle and the Forces of Darkness forever).


Hence this story being a tragedy in my mind's eye. I don't see things ending well.

I understand that point of view and could certainly see it happening, but I don't think I can agree. That seems to operate under the assumption that these characters can't change and I don't know if that's fair to them. Will it be easy or is it guaranteed, no. At the same time though we've already begun to see them grow. Annabelle's conversation before the tribunal is much different then it would have been a few arcs ago. Also the current conversation with Bailey demonstrates a level of mental flexibility and understanding that I could easily see leading to her changing her mind despite her statement at the beginning that she still plans to vote for his death.
The thing is, I view Mordred as a potential agent of change. In his own way he's beginning to come to terms with his own baggage and grow as a person. I could certainly see him acting as a catalyst for the Knights own growth as they come to terms with each other. Not necessarily intentionally, but a side effect of shared self discovery and understanding.
Once again, will this happen, I don't know, I may be too optimistic. Mordred just may not have enough self awareness to take all the steps needed to truly grow beyond his faults and/or the Knights may be too entrenched in their own issues and the cycle of reincarnation that currently binds them. I'm not saying everything will turn out perfect, things rarely do, or that it will be in anyway easy or smooth, but I don't believe everything has to end in tragedy.
 
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Hey now things might be bad now, but it's never wrong to hope that things will get better. I'm sure after this arc things will get better, because while the story is traditionally a tragedy, it is also a (pseudo) magical girl show. Mordred and everyone else can still live through this.
 
I understand that point of view and could certainly see it happening, but I don't think I can agree. That seems to operate under the assumption that these characters can't change and I don't know if that's fair to them. Will it be easy or is it guaranteed, no. At the same time though we've already begun to see them grow. Annabelle's conversation before the tribunal is much different then it would have been a few arcs ago. Also the current conversation with Bailey demonstrates a level of mental flexibility and understanding that I could easily see leading to her changing her mind despite her statement at the beginning that she still plans to vote for his death.
The thing is, I view Mordred as a potential agent of change. In his own way he's beginning to come to terms with his own baggage and grow as a person. I could certainly see him acting as a catalyst for the Knights own growth as they come to terms with each other. Not necessarily intentionally, but a side effect of shared self discovery and understanding.
Once again, will this happen, I don't know, I may be too optimistic. Mordred just may not have enough self awareness to take all the steps needed to truly grow beyond his faults and/or the Knights may be too entrenched in their own issues and the cycle of reincarnation that currently binds them. I'm not saying everything will turn out perfect, things rarely do, or that it will be in anyway easy or smooth, but I don't believe everything has to end in tragedy.

I never said that the knights can't change. I just said that I expect that things will end horribly for them. The struggle to change and the tangible progress they make towards that goal of a chance at something different makes the conclusion all the more tragic when they still fail.
 
There is one something we are missing behind all the doom and gloom.

Namely, the reason why these memories were hidden from Mordred. Does anyone have any ideas what is so important about them to go to those lenghts?

I suppose the most important part would be hidden behind the memories of Lucy, as she is the only one that could be relevant to this time and place:
"Not exactly," Matthew says. "We have to jump back to reality, make some adjustments, then come back to finish cracking the spell. We've shaken its foundations loose, but we need the other side of the association it's trying to hide. Memories of Lucy to tie to the memories of Lorelei." He glances over at you. "Do you feel any different?"
But... why would we have any memories of Lucy? She wasn't in the cave. She wasn't at school. In fact, didn't the entire drama happen as a backstory, and we were only awoken after the breakup? I mean, we went fencing on our first day at Roosevelt Prep, and Lucy has already left the club.

I don't believe the spell was so insidious as to twist our perception of time itself.

So wait, when was the spell cast? Did we meet her during our adventures somehow and then our memory was purged clean? Why did they take our Lorelei memories then? We've just regained them, and I see absolutely nothing we could use there.

Or was the spell cast before we even awakened, and that's why we never suspected there was another Knight even after crossing blades with Annabelle? Does it mean that Mordred's awakening was pre-planned, and is a part of the current plot? Then why now of all times, and what is the role we were supposed to play?

That would be quite a plan, though. It would require cooperation from Tylwyth Teg, Morgana and Sa'Lanyah... basically, half the forces of Darkness.
 
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There is one something we are missing behind all the doom and gloom.

Namely, the reason why these memories were hidden from Mordred. Does anyone have any ideas what is so important about them to go to those lenghts?

I suppose the most important part would be hidden behind the memories of Lucy, as she is the only one that could be relevant to this time and place:

But... why would we have any memories of Lucy? She wasn't in the cave. She wasn't at school. In fact, didn't the entire drama happen as a backstory, and we were only awoken after the breakup? I mean, we went fencing on our first day at Roosevelt Prep, and Lucy has already left the club.

I don't believe the spell was so insidious as to twist our perception of time itself.

So wait, when was the spell cast? Did we meet her during our adventures somehow and then our memory was purged clean? Why did they take our Lorelei memories then? We've just regained them, and I see absolutely nothing we could use there.

Or was the spell cast before we even awakened, and that's why we never suspected there was another Knight even after crossing blades with Annabelle? Does it mean that Mordred's awakening was pre-planned, and is a part of the current plot? Then why now of all times, and what is the role we were supposed to play?

That would be quite a plan, though. It would require cooperation from Tylwyth Teg, Morgana and Sa'Lanyah... basically, half the forces of Darkness.

All our hints towards our Lucy memories happened in "The Dream" (aka the suddenly movie sidestory that's actually plot relevant). I'm pretty sure she popped up in several of the really weird visions we had (we had at least one of a woman who was incredibly familiar with fiery red hair wandering between worlds or something). Beyond that our only solid memory of Lucy is from when we gave her up without realizing who she was in exchange for Gala Gemma. We don't know it's her IC, but it might be worthwhile to mention when we get out of our head. No one else knows what we did there.


Hey, maybe they've heard of "The Source of all Lies" or whatever that thing was.
 
That would be quite a plan, though. It would require cooperation from Tylwyth Teg, Morgana and Sa'Lanyah... basically, half the forces of Darkness.
Alternatively, there's a Xanatos in play. And clearly, it's some version of ourselves.

IIRC, Tylwyth Teg was described as playing at being refined, but a brute at heart. Morgana... we don't know her very well, but I could kind of see her being convinced to play along with a plot like that for shits and giggles.
 
All our hints towards our Lucy memories happened in "The Dream" (aka the suddenly movie sidestory that's actually plot relevant). I'm pretty sure she popped up in several of the really weird visions we had (we had at least one of a woman who was incredibly familiar with fiery red hair wandering between worlds or something). Beyond that our only solid memory of Lucy is from when we gave her up without realizing who she was in exchange for Gala Gemma. We don't know it's her IC, but it might be worthwhile to mention when we get out of our head. No one else knows what we did there.
I thought the Dream was where we were made aware that our memories were missing. Do you think it was where they got tampered with? It is plausible, since Sa'Lanyah had control over the artifact and could mess with everyone's heads with impunity. We've spent a good chunk of our dreaming life as her captive, so she would have plenty of time to alter our mind as she saw fit, especially with how valuable her host was to her. Maybe Mordred wouldn't have let her go if he knew what was at stake.

But wait, things do not add up. Why would Sa'Lanyah remove memories of Lucy that would only be useful to us if we escaped? Did she intend for us to be freed? Wouldn't thet be a colossal risk? What if she didn't have Gemma to trade for?

And why did we not learn anything about Lucy back in the cave, after rummaging through Annabelle's memories, despite how central she was to their conflict? Mordred never had so much as suspected that anyone was missing.
 
I'm not really sure when Mordred's memories were hidden from him, but considering he gets a flash of a girl with red hair traveling between worlds it's possible it happened following the Civil War. Considering the spells ability to hide someone's identity, it's possible Lorelei actually traveled with Mordred and Morgana when they were traveling between worlds to gather the forces of darkness to attack Camelot. Mordred may just not have realized it was her or he knew at the time and that knowledge was obscured later which is why Mordred believes that scene after casting hellfire was the his last encounter with her.It could also tie into why Morgana had Lucy, though I suppose that could have been a later bargain in this life.

I'm almost certain Mordred's memories were tampered with before the Dream Sequence.

The red haired girl pulls at you. You feel like you remember her, but cannot quite place how. Now that you think about it, her face dots your hazy, stolen recollections. Always there, always slightly off to the side. Your head hurts. You rub your temple absently.

This happened during the party, implying that his memories were already obscured well before then. Doesn't mean Sa'Lanyah and the other Forces of Darkness weren't involved, but it didn't happen in the dream. It's much more likely it happened sometime between the Civil War and shortly after he wakes up. Which is a lot of time, but most of which he spent in stasis.
 
After reading everyone thoughts I think this plan is the best one for us. We need them to realize that we don't see them as the same people that for us it's a new beginning. This serves a two fold purpose one she does not need to hold us as a threat because we have no grief against them and two we demonstrate or express Morderd' s faith in the common man abilty. Something I feel like the other knights do not have.

[X] You stare at her for a few moments, and then laugh in her face. "You still think I'm going to turn on you, don't you? Why? What reason could I possibly have for hurting any of you? You're not all-powerful god-kings, you're a bunch of dumb kids. Annabelle's...disagreement with Lucy was bad, I have no doubt about that, but...who was hurt by it? A few dozen people at most, I'd wager, but it was nothing on the scale that Artuta and Lorelei's war. Absolute rulers the likes of which existed in my time simply do not exist anymore, and if you tried to seize power by force - well, you'll probably find that the 'normal' people of this world are more prepared than you'd think. The fact of the matter is, I don't think there's any situation where I'd feel forced to turn on you."
 
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After reading everyone thoughts I think this plan is the best one for us. We need them to realize that we don't see them as the same people that for us it's a new beginning. This serves a two fold purpose one she does not need to hold us as a threat because we have no grief against them and two we demonstrate or express Morderd' s faith in the common man abilty. Something I feel like the other knights do not have.

I mean vote for what you want, but I doubt that vote will have the affect you think it will. Sure Gally will put the intent in Mordred's own words, but essentially you're voting to laugh in her face, insult her, and then lecture/talk down to her. That generally isn't the best way to convince people.
 
I'm almost certain Mordred's memories were tampered with before the Dream Sequence.
Good find! Yes, I completely forgot about that. It's definitely a proof of memory tampering happening prior to the beginning of the story.

So you think it might have happened back when Camelot still existed. It is possible that any memories of Lucy are missing as a consequence of erasing our memory of Lorelei.
Considering the spells ability to hide someone's identity, it's possible Lorelei actually traveled with Mordred and Morgana when they were traveling between worlds to gather the forces of darkness to attack Camelot. Mordred may just not have realized it was her or he knew at the time and that knowledge was obscured later which is why Mordred believes that scene after casting hellfire was the his last encounter with her.
That... is a bold hypothesis, but I don't think I believe it, for two reasons.

First, the memories we are looking at were the ones obscured. It's not like we were led to believe this was the last time we've seen Lorelei, since these memories were stolen too. There was nothing left to confuse us and give us the wrong impression!

Second, Lorelei would not have joined Mordred, and would not share his goal and methods. She surrendered to spare her people, the people of Camelot. Mordred had stepped all over them. Isn't it one of our fundamental differences?

It confuses me, this spell. It's not like Mordred forgot everything that was connected to Lorelei. No, he remembered her existence and her teachings when he burned down the orphanage. It's a particular set of memories that got affected, the ones involving the aftermath of discovering Gwynn's adultery and the resulting Civil War. Why these ones?
 
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That... is a bold hypothesis, but I don't think I believe it, for two reasons.

I don't necessarily think it's the case though it's an interesting possibility. I'm not totally convinced she wouldn't have joined Mordred, though I agree it's doubtful, the problem is Mordred just doesn't know most of what was going on behind the scenes.

It's a particular set of memories that got affected, the ones involving the aftermath of discovering Gwynn's adultery and the resulting Civil War. Why these ones?

That's the what it comes down to in the end. I think it depends. If that's the point Lorelei made a deal with Morgana, or if that's when Morgana came to collect her end of the deal, that would be the most logical reason. If Morgana was playing the long game, and from what little we know she usually is, then Morgana may not have wanted Mordred to know what was going on if she was running two plans at once. In fairness Lorelei may have been traveling with them then, though depending on the nature of her bargain with Morgana, if there was one, she may not have been acting under her own agency.
It could explain why Lucy was reincarnated at the end. Maybe she was fighting with Mordred under the control of his Aunt and Arturia included her in the spell out of pity to try and free her, or because of her connection to the Round Table she got caught in it anyways.
Not hugely confident about any of this, just throwing out plausible ideas that I've been thinking about.
 
There's also the chance we we're modified while in stasis.

Or the more paranoid time shenanigans. Really hope there aren't time shenanigans
 
If the spell targets Lucy directly instead of only tangentially, it has to be while we were in stasis. I mean, Lucy is only... ~17? Or sixteen (if we go by the Dream). And only has her powers for the last few years.

I wouldn't even think it was the case, if not for Mathtew's words.
"We've shaken its foundations loose, but we need the other side of the association it's trying to hide. Memories of Lucy to tie to the memories of Lorelei." He glances over at you. "Do you feel any different?"

You feel…jumbled. Fragile. But there are no grand revelations sweeping through your consciousness. "I don't think so. But…Lucy?"
I felt like Mordred. 'Uh, what memories of Lucy?'

If it's a case of unreliable narrator, it'd be a pretty sneaky one.
 
If it's a case of unreliable narrator, it'd be a pretty sneaky one.

The thing is I'm not sure about this.

"I…" Red hair dripping with rainwater, boots caked in mud of a hundred different worlds. "I don't know." Your head pounds, a steady, painful drumbeat against your skull.

I went back and reread a lot of the quest following the revelation that Mordred's mind had been messed with and this is the line during the Dream sequence, while he's talking to Talia, that trips me up. This is a memory that had been tampered with, the question is when it's from. It doesn't feel like a memory post awakening cause if Morgana was holding onto Lucy why let her travel across the multiverse? Or if Morgana didn't have her yet, why is Lucy traveling across world? If it's between the end of the war and the Fall of Camelot it raises a ton of questions about what happened to Lorelei after Mordred's last clear meeting with her. Whatever the answer though it just raised so many more possibilities and questions.
If it's pre fall, what is Mordred not remembering from before and what part did Lorelei play at the end? If it's post fall when did Mordred see this and why was Lucy traveling so much between worlds after leaving Roosevelt?
 
I went back and reread a lot of the quest following the revelation that Mordred's mind had been messed with and this is the line during the Dream sequence, while he's talking to Talia, that trips me up. This is a memory that had been tampered with, the question is when it's from.
It is from the time when Lorelei returned from her exile with her daughter. Here:
It was storming when Lady Lorelei returned, the kind of coincidence that happened far too often when one lived in Camelot. She threw open the doors of the main hall in the middle of court, hair dripping with rainwater and boots caked in mud from a hundred different worlds.

You have never seen Lorelei before, not in real life. She left Camelot before you were born, and though you have heard her name on the lips of your teachers, seen her face woven into the tapestries that hang above the hall, you have never truly seen her.
[...]
"And I have atoned. I have walked a thousand hostile lands for you. I have slain your enemies and I have wrought miracles in your name. I have atoned. And now I come before you, and I ask of you, forgive me."

There is silence, for a moment. And in that moment, thousands more.

"Artura," says the woman kneeling on the ground, hair dripping rainwater, boots caked in mud from a hundred different worlds. "Please."

"Of course," your mother says, and then she stands and pulls Lorelei to her feet and into a hug. Her gown stains with mud and rainwater, but the two women only embrace all the harder. "Of course, of course! Of course there will always be a place for you here, Lorelei." She pulls back and smiles. "And there will always be a place for your daughter as well."

And that is how you met Gala Corbenic, daughter of Lorelei Lake and your only friend.
It is almost the exact phrasing.
 
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It is almost the exact phrasing.

Curious though how that works. Does that mean if Mordred remembers all the memories of Lorelei in the past while thinking about Lucy, he'll suffer the same block. I hadn't thought mechanically about how Mathew plans to break the spell, but maybe he intends to make Mordred remember the events they just experienced again, except force him to associate Lorelei as Lucy while remembering them.
 
Now this might seem like a silly complaint, but we basically played this entire quest hampered by mental hangups we didn't properly know about until this arc. We knew little glimpses, a few broad strokes, but that's it. This entire quest has been us walking around with a ball and chain tied around our leg, except we are kept in the dark of the sheer size and weight of it. We try to drag ourselves with the little knowledge we gleaned, not knowing it was doomed from the start, because the weight is too heavy. And we naturally trip up, again and again. If we knew what we are dealing with from the start, I certainly would have voted much differently on several occasions.

In my opinion, you had an interesting story to tell with DPoC. But it was ill suited for a quest. You should have just made this an original work without player input.
I don't think that's a silly complaint at all. I've struggled a lot with what to reveal to you guys. I've tried to give you enough information to let you make reasonably informed decisions, but there's always going to be stuff I've missed, or stuff that I just don't have, because I didn't have the whole story planned out when I started DPoC. If that has significantly impacted your enjoyment of the quest then that's completely fair, and that's on me.

The only argument I'll make towards my defense on this point is this: I think you can place pretty much every quest on a sliding scale between two points, "game" and "interactive story." DPoC is definitely pretty far onto the "interactive story" end, and thus my focus isn't as much on providing you with resources you can leverage to win (knowledge of your past can sort of be looked at like that, if you squint) and more with providing you enough that you understand what's going on and can empathize with Mordred and what he's going through. Which is why your next few sentences seriously worry me.
Now we are being lectured at about how everyone is equally tied down and we should show more understanding. But that misses the point. We the players aren't Mordred. Mordred problem was that he didn't empathize enough with his mother and the knights. Ours was that we weren't able to empathize with Mordred, to understand him.
Are you guys really having trouble empathizing with Mordred? I ask because I seriously hadn't even considered this an issue - from my readings of the comments, people have rallied behind Mordred again and again, even when he might not necessarily deserve it. When you say you can't understand Mordred, do you mean you can't see where he's coming from, or are you saying you feel like you've lost control of him as a player character?
And the fact you keep bringing it back to Mordred's mistakes rather than the root problem of the fundamental miscommunication between you and the player base is problematic. We aren't lashing out at the Knights because we failed to understand them, we are lashing out because we have to sit through the Knights judgement for choices either made without vital knowledge or choices we never made at all.
This is the only part of your comment I seriously disagree with, because Mordred's big "mistake" that he is being hammered for this arc was his decision to overthrow Camelot, which was a reader choice. "A Rogue, Undecided" was one of the very first decisions made in the quest, and it very explicitly tells you that Mordred rebelled against his mother and also wasn't a hero.

He wasn't a villain either, don't get me wrong. But right from the start there were a lot of anti-Artura, Anti-Camelot comments. I think it's fair to say that a lot of people assumed the worst about the Knights from the very beginning, because they liked Mordred and wanted to paint his actions in a favorable light. Which suited me just fine, because y'all were playing a character who assumed the worst about the Knights and wanted to paint his actions in a favorable light. But that doesn't mean those instincts were necessarily right.

I guess I just want to finish my piece here by saying I'm sorry you feel like you're "tripping up." I promise you're not being punished for making the wrong choices. Things aren't going well for Mordred right now, sure. His life's in danger, he's surrounded by people that either hate his guts or just mistrust him, and he's getting repeatedly hit in the face with some of his worst memories, but he's not doomed. And he doesn't have to come out of this decided that his mom was right and he was wrong and he should've just fallen in line like a good little soldier - but I do think he has to come out of this changed, because ever since he woke up in the modern age he's been looking at the Breakfast Club and asking himself "who are these people and what do they mean to me" but only now is he actually seeking to answer that.

Thank you for responding like this, by the way - I really value the criticism, because I genuinely want to learn from writing DPoC. It's important to me that I understand what ya'll feel about the story and why.
Curious though how that works. Does that mean if Mordred remembers all the memories of Lorelei in the past while thinking about Lucy, he'll suffer the same block. I hadn't thought mechanically about how Mathew plans to break the spell, but maybe he intends to make Mordred remember the events they just experienced again, except force him to associate Lorelei as Lucy while remembering them.
The memory block affecting you is functionally very similar to the memory block you placed on the Breakfast Club. They could see Mordred, they could see Morgan, but they couldn't really connect the two in their heads. You can see Lorelei, you can see Lucy, but you can't figure out what they have to do with each other, even if the answer should be blindingly obvious at first glance.
 
The memory block affecting you is functionally very similar to the memory block you placed on the Breakfast Club. They could see Mordred, they could see Morgan, but they couldn't really connect the two in their heads. You can see Lorelei, you can see Lucy, but you can't figure out what they have to do with each other, even if the answer should be blindingly obvious at first glance.

I understand the basics of how the block works, but Nevil was pointing out a quote I referenced tied back to something that happened in Camelot when Mordred was a child. I was under the impression the spell would hide any actions Mordred took as Morgan and not allow them to make the connection to the past in the first place. It greatly increases the scope of the spell if even mentioning Lucy's name without any reference to Lorelei could bring up a memory of her that he couldn't explain. Essentially he could have a flashback of the same event in Camelot, but how he experienced the memory would change based on whose name was mentioned. It makes me curious if when the Knights' brought up Morgan among themselves, if they experienced flashbacks to events with him that they couldn't explain. I mean that may have just been me underestimating it to begin with, but I found it interesting and it makes me even more curious about discovering more on the "Source of all Lies".

Also earlier you quoted me with a line about Mordred implying to Genma that he told Gaila he was leaving. That wasn't really an answer though because there's a difference between telling someone your leaving and maybe hoping they come with you, as Mordred did with Genma, and actually asking them to leave with you. Considering Gaila's state of mind, actually asking her may have convinced her whereas implying it would not.
 
Are you guys really having trouble empathizing with Mordred? I ask because I seriously hadn't even considered this an issue - from my readings of the comments, people have rallied behind Mordred again and again, even when he might not necessarily deserve it. When you say you can't understand Mordred, do you mean you can't see where he's coming from, or are you saying you feel like you've lost control of him as a player character?

No trouble at all empathizing with Mordred or seeing where he is coming from. Although I would say I feel we've been loosing control of him as a player character, but that's mostly because as this quest has gone on it's shed more and more of the game aspects and grown into basically just an interactive story.

Which is totally fine! Honestly, don't think I could get as much enjoyment out of this if it were more of a game. Interactive stories are far more reliable in how things respond to your actions whereas in quests that lean more to game has your fortune based on the will of the dice. Players really don't like it when bad things happen from a bad roll, so its good that this arc isn't the result of crit-failing the roll to reveal ourself to Gemma.
 
I mean, I'm not sure if my opinion counts or not, because I've never actually chimed in on the discussion (this is my first post on SV), but having lurked in this thread from the very start until now, I've never felt that there was any sort of punishment, unfair or otherwise, that happened in this quest. I've always seen the quest as a sort of character study and development of Mordred and the Knights, both past and present. Things unfold, and we are treated to a slowly growing picture of who these people are. It doesn't feel like there are any "right" or "wrong" choices. There's just a story being told.

I mean, I guess my perspective is also probably unique in that I was never emotionally invested in any of the choices voted for or actions taken. But speaking from this perspective, DPoC had been hands down the most enjoyable piece of literature I've read on this site. I loved being able to follow the characters, their motivations and actions, as the story progressed, and I hope that the conclusion to this arc will be satisfactory to everyone involved.

Thanks for putting in the time and effort into writing this Gally, and I'll be waiting warmly for the next update.
 
Are you guys really having trouble empathizing with Mordred? I ask because I seriously hadn't even considered this an issue - from my readings of the comments, people have rallied behind Mordred again and again, even when he might not necessarily deserve it. When you say you can't understand Mordred, do you mean you can't see where he's coming from, or are you saying you feel like you've lost control of him as a player character?
More that I understood and liked him a lot more when we started...

...so the onus of that is mostly player choices.
 
The only argument I'll make towards my defense on this point is this: I think you can place pretty much every quest on a sliding scale between two points, "game" and "interactive story." DPoC is definitely pretty far onto the "interactive story" end, and thus my focus isn't as much on providing you with resources you can leverage to win (knowledge of your past can sort of be looked at like that, if you squint) and more with providing you enough that you understand what's going on and can empathize with Mordred and what he's going through. Which is why your next few sentences seriously worry me.
It's been presented as a quest, though, so naturally readers expect to some degree the ability to 'win' or 'solve' what they think is a social puzzle. Quest readers don't like uncertainty, so they bail and don't even vote if story tension gets too high (generally speaking), and enough popular/influential quest writers have noticed that and used it to continue their popularity. And that trains the readers.

So of course DPoC is in the quest section, where people are trained to think that they can always win or at least avoid bad outcomes, and began with some simple mechanics to suggest a game, and so the most popular time for the quest was when it was light and players had (basically) total control of the initiative and used it for free-hearted exploration and SoL. Then for the past however many updates Mordred's been falling down the stairs and the mechanics have become window dressing or some sort of trick to the reader's mind. DPoC may be on the far end of the 'story' scale now, but as it began it bait-and-switched with game trappings.

Quest loses readers (and therefore brainpower, since fewer readers means less time/intelligence invested into producing cleverness for the quest), readers feel deprived of the guarantee of safety that they thought 'a more game-y quest with anime trappings (as presented early)' would provide for their emotional nest egg, they question why they're even here if the early votes/mechanics don't protect them like they're used to, or why they participate if it's all headed downhill every update. Any possibility of later dividends for votes cast, to decide how Mordred reacts to each of the knights, is a possibility very far removed from the reader's mind, because quests set up an immediate feedback loop between the QM and readers.
 
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