False, the parents being from outside disqualify them from CHIM, since you need to be a local for that, you can't awaken from a dream you were never part of to begin with after all.
Cultivating Magic
- Thread starter SpiraSpira
- Start date
- Original
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Yep that sounds like the parents are in one of Skyrim's many, many Draugr tombs, and they just beat up one of the Dragon Priests to shake him down for necromantic secrets.
e: Also you don't want to risk CHIM: The problem with CHIM is that whether you succeed or not is based on something that is pretty much impossible to test beforehand. So there's no real way to know if you will succeed or fail before you try, and if you fail you retcon yourself from having ever existed in the first place. So going for CHIM is literally a blind leap of faith and the odds are you won't make it.
Just turning yourself into a normal D&D Lich and taking the slow boat to unlimited power is a far safer and more reliable course of action.
e: Also you don't want to risk CHIM: The problem with CHIM is that whether you succeed or not is based on something that is pretty much impossible to test beforehand. So there's no real way to know if you will succeed or fail before you try, and if you fail you retcon yourself from having ever existed in the first place. So going for CHIM is literally a blind leap of faith and the odds are you won't make it.
Just turning yourself into a normal D&D Lich and taking the slow boat to unlimited power is a far safer and more reliable course of action.
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einargs
Verified Spiller of the Egg Yolk
- Location
- The Egg Yolk, Outer Layer
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Unless the world they were in before was also a dream and they just hopped dreams.How tho?
The entirety of Nirn and the surrounding planes are just the dream of an eldritch being, so them being from outside should automatically qualify her parents for CHIM (essentially godhood by manipulating the dream like its your own lucid dream) right?
That seems really fucking broken.
edit: ninja'd
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
D&D Necromancers would actually have an extreme advantage against a Dragon Priest: Necromancers have a ton of spells to mess with undead in various ways, spells that a Dragon Priest has never seen before and therefore has absolutely no countermeasures against.
And Dragon Priests are arrogant bastards, so it definitely would have grandstanded and played with them at first, giving them the opportunity to fuck its shit right up. Whereas when your average D&D Necromancer sees an intelligent spellcasting undead they immediately stop fucking around.
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Jordisk
<Unverified N00B>
- Location
- Blind Eternities
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Any reality that can be touched by the Black Goat and its fellows is, by definition, merely a dream of the Daemon Sultan, the Deep Dark, the Cold One, the Nuclear Chaos, The Blind Idiot God, Azathoth Dreaming. Azathoth IS the Godhead.How tho?
The entirety of Nirn and the surrounding planes are just the dream of an eldritch being, so them being from outside should automatically qualify her parents for CHIM (essentially godhood by manipulating the dream like its your own lucid dream) right?
That seems really fucking broken.
edit: ninja'd
Bleat!
yacov
Lurking and sometimes blurting
- Location
- Clogging a drain
Here's an Omake for everyone's new favorite character.
——
Omake: Playful Time
Cultivator Sei Kei: "Soon I will learn that catty minx's secrets. Then I can show Chen that I was the right choice for successor!"
Cultivator Sei Kei encounters Faithful Goat
Faithful Goat: "BLEAT!"
Roll for initiative
Sei Kei: "Oh, an illusion alarm. Luckily I have just the talisman to dispel."
Make a dispel check with advantage
Faithful Goat does not acknowledge your attempt to dispel it
Sei Kei: "What! But I spent hundreds of points on this!"
Faithful Goat: "Bleat!"
Faithful Goat casts Major Image.
Faithful Goat will not allow you to make a save.
Sei Kei: "Wait illusions are not supposed to cast techniques. WHAT IN THE DAO IS THAT!?"
Faithful Goat casts an image of Pl@&F_\ # T?;~
Take Qi Deviation damage
Sei Kei: "Oh Heavens make it stop!"
Make a dispel check
Faithful Goat does not acknowledge your attempts to dispel its image
Take Qi Deviation damage
Sei Kei: "This is too much! I am out of here!"
Unable to flee from Major Image.
Sei Kei: "Why is it following me!?"
Faithful Goat has the cast the spell within the layers of your eyeballs.
Take Qi Deviation damage
Sei Kei: "Please."
Take Qi Deviation damage
Sei Kei: "Stop."
Take Qi Deviation damage
Take Qi Deviation damage
Take Qi Devia…
Later on
Mei Wan: "Hey my Faithful Goat. See anything?"
Faithful Goat: "Bleat!"
——
Omake: Playful Time
Cultivator Sei Kei: "Soon I will learn that catty minx's secrets. Then I can show Chen that I was the right choice for successor!"
Cultivator Sei Kei encounters Faithful Goat
Faithful Goat: "BLEAT!"
Roll for initiative
Sei Kei: "Oh, an illusion alarm. Luckily I have just the talisman to dispel."
Make a dispel check with advantage
Faithful Goat does not acknowledge your attempt to dispel it
Sei Kei: "What! But I spent hundreds of points on this!"
Faithful Goat: "Bleat!"
Faithful Goat casts Major Image.
Faithful Goat will not allow you to make a save.
Sei Kei: "Wait illusions are not supposed to cast techniques. WHAT IN THE DAO IS THAT!?"
Faithful Goat casts an image of Pl@&F_\ # T?;~
Take Qi Deviation damage
Sei Kei: "Oh Heavens make it stop!"
Make a dispel check
Faithful Goat does not acknowledge your attempts to dispel its image
Take Qi Deviation damage
Sei Kei: "This is too much! I am out of here!"
Unable to flee from Major Image.
Sei Kei: "Why is it following me!?"
Faithful Goat has the cast the spell within the layers of your eyeballs.
Take Qi Deviation damage
Sei Kei: "Please."
Take Qi Deviation damage
Sei Kei: "Stop."
Take Qi Deviation damage
Take Qi Deviation damage
Take Qi Devia…
Later on
Mei Wan: "Hey my Faithful Goat. See anything?"
Faithful Goat: "Bleat!"
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To be fair it's true of TES necromancers too. But Mannimarco happened way later than Dragon Priest prime time if I remember right. So they missed the memo that gameboard changed.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Indeed, not to say that Dragon Priests aren't bloody dangerous; their mastery of the Thu'um alone makes them terrifying enemies when they are fighting seriously. And at least if a TES necromancer fought one they would still be using the same general type of magic that the Dragon Priests know of.
But as we've seen with Mei Wen; D&D spells are very advanced spellwork and often esoteric in function, making them very tricky to deal with if you aren't familiar with what they do.
It also might have been a particularly notable draugr lord of some kind rather than a Dragon Priest, though even then most high level draugr can Shout as well, so they aren't actually that much less dangerous than the weaker Dragon Priests. (It's also unclear how much of their power the Dragon Priests actually retained in death.)
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- Location
- Elsewhere
"Yes! I knew that Tickle Undead spell would come in handy. He's too busy laughing to use that shout magic!"
"How is he even being tickled? He doesn't have nerves!"
"That's what makes the spell so complicated."
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As far as I remember most would have Thu'um as creation of Greybeard Monastery was a reaction to its misuse in war and raids. And, frankly, if some thane was badass enough to tangle with others without Thu'um he is probably absolutely monstrous in conventional combat. As much as "conventional" can be applied to people who can cleave through stone.
Depends on your circumstances. Sometimes someone doesn't have the opportunity to slowboat their progress. They need to succeed now or die. Taking a leap of faith and possibly retconning yourself is still a better gamble than surviving the enemies hunting you down, depending on those enemies, especially if you end up being able to erase them instead if you succeed.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
On the other hand it's kind of a moot point; in order to succeed at CHIM you need to be so arrogant and self-centered that the possibility of your failure would never even occur to you in the first place.
Most draugr are too passive and being undead slaves to the minor dragons-gods that they aren't that huge of a threat. That you can just stop advancing and be safe when fighting the draugr in skyrim is a massive advantage unlike traditional D&D undead who actively hate the living and will hunt them down once disturbed.
Self-centered, possibly, but arrogant is a matter of opinion. With the caveat that this discussion is attempting to impose order upon the mystical ramblings of a game writer blasted out of his mind on mushrooms, you really only have to be able to retain personhood while witnessing your universe from the outside.
In other words, any character who breaks the fourth wall while retaining their character has arguably achieved CHIM, and the zero summed are those whose straddling of the suspension of disbelief undermines their nature and prevents their inclusion in the story. Vivec, that cheat, scammed his way through with help from the Heart of Lorkhan and a hint from Morgoth Bal, but you don't necessarily have to be full of yourself to manage it.
Anyway. That's not the threat. Dragon priests aren't the threat.
The threat is that two D&D spellcasters who commit to necromancy and infernalism think they know what they're doing with summoning up devils and making contracts. Maybe they do!
They're not prepared for the daedra, and the daedra have absolutely everything they've ever wanted. Mei Wen's going to need every advantage her cultivation gives her if her mother and father decide to compact with Coldharbor, and might even need her pet goat's help if Sheogorath gets involved. In Daggerfall, every time you summon up a daedric prince, there's a 5% chance he'll show up instead!
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Yeah, the draugr don't hate the living, they just want the living to piss off out of their home and leave them alone.
Eh, any proper D&D caster is familiar with demonic entities of great power like daedra. Are they familiar with these specific demons? No. But their response to being told that there are nigh-omnipotent demon lords living in demiplanes carved out of the void is probably going to be something along the lines of "oh yeah we have those back home as well."
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Jordisk
<Unverified N00B>
- Location
- Blind Eternities
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Except that you can't expect Skyrim!Sheo's madness to match the madness of older Sheo, since the Hero of Kvatch became the new Sheo in the Shiving Isles expansion. After all, if Sheo was Sheo and the Madness was the same, wouldn't that make it ORDERLY?
The pet goat is usually understood as a mother, I think.
"We did it, my love. We've beaten this so-called Prince at his own game and claimed his artifact for our own" is how nearly every daedric sidequest in every Elder Scrolls game starts, and they never end well. Your problem isn't that the Deadra are powerful, or that they won't keep their word--they don't have to do so, but generally they do--it's that every single one of them has an entry on their character sheet: "(Su) Locate Protagonist, 1 / dragon break, you can arrange an encounter with the player character and bribe them to inflict terrible suffering upon any who has wronged you"
Remember, her parents haven't found any living people. If they're in Skyrim, it might be before the third age, because the region is well settled by the time the Hero of Kvatch is out and about.
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Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Why on earth would they be stupid enough to want to fight a demon lord and take their artifact? Nothing in the story has indicated that they are even close to the kind of power required for a D&D character to think that fucking with demon lords is a good idea.
Skyrim is more monster-infested wilderness than inhabited land, there are tons of places they could have ended up in Skyrim that would be weeks of travel on foot away from the nearest piece of civilization.
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The biggest problem is that Daedra are basically on Dukes of Hell/Lords of the Abyss level but are much more active and direct. Demogorgon can't just open a door walk into the tavern and start drinking while ignoring the other visitors or turning them inside out. Not without a lot of prep work and dealing with all the Upper Planes countermeasures.
Sanguine does exactly that. And a lot of other Daedra are similarly active. Even though that's technically them following the pact that protects the world against them. If there was no pact things would be much worse - Oblivion crisis with Mehrunes Dagon going Hulk smash the whole world bad.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
On the other hand the last time Dagon tried to invade Nirn he got counter-invaded by the Argonians, so even in their own domain Daedric Princes are not undefeatable.