Counting Sheep - A Pokemon Trainer quest

Personally, I can't think of many of them off the top of my head? Even if there's a Pokemon that I don't particularly like, I am okay with exploring its options if the rest are enthusiastic about it. My only preferences are to have a large flyer and surfer for ease of travels, but for the rest, I'll wait and see.


I agree, too. There's also the point about ease of travel, which unless we have a raft or something to be pulled around, we probably want a large sea-faring Pokemon to sit on as our water type rather then running two water types in the team. If our theme allows for that or even encourages it like being a water type specialist, then I guess that's fine? But otherwise, I'm not a fan.
Could we aim for a Gyarados? It can't learn Fly in the games, but I don't see why one couldn't. It is Flying Type after all. Two roles with one rage snek. Also, our mentor would be able to give us tips. On the downside, two trainers with a gyarados might have problems.
 
I agree, too. There's also the point about ease of travel, which unless we have a raft or something to be pulled around, we probably want a large sea-faring Pokemon to sit on as our water type rather then running two water types in the team. If our theme allows for that or even encourages it like being a water type specialist, then I guess that's fine? But otherwise, I'm not a fan.
If we have to catch water pokemon shellos is always a appealing pick, and I'd even take goldeen and seaking even. But apart from other select few I don't think there is a lot of water pokemon we should immediately want to catch.

Apart from finneon that is, love to catch a finneon at some point.
 
I'll say, while I'm perfectly happy to throw around ideas for themes and other future stuff, something on the level of "which water type do we want to add to our team for surf" strikes me as too specific to discuss before we got our theme. (Also, clearly the answer is surfing along with our nido that can use their poison point ability to fit with weaponized cuddling and has a great side benefit of building our relationship with Cassiopeia. :V )
An idea we could do for a Fluffy theme is to have a sub-theme connected to it. Like how Edgedancer suggested the Fluffy theme with a subtheme of contact moves. I would like to suggest a sub theme of Fluffy being to focus on training a Pokemon's natural characteristic. Basically instead of hard focusing on training moves we focus on Marigolds ability to feel electromagnetic field. Another example is training a Electrike to stimulate their muscles with electricity at a moments notice. What I love about this theme is that it will catch most trainers off guard since they will be focusing on what moves a Pokemon knows and not the Pokemon's natural characteristics.
With that kind of focus, you might want to go with aiming for the Beautiful trait. Pokemon do seem to operate on beauty is better (an impression helped by how many milotics have been mentioned so far) and better in this case means a higher aptitude at a lot of these natural characteristics you want to focus on.
I don't mind, personally. At the very least it lets us bounce Pokémon ideas off each other. Better to find out someone vehemently despises Rhyperior now than after deciding on a "Construction" theme.

And on that note, are there Pokemon people don't want to catch?
Crabominable is a very aptly named abomination. In a less direct sense, I think some of the new evolutions introduced in Gen IV are hit and miss in that they don't really manage to preserve what I consider to be the appeal of the original pokemon. The biggest case is probably manoswine. I don't strictly speaking have anything against manoswine, but exposing the eyes and giving them proper legs subtracts enough from swinhub piloswine's charm that I'd rather not evolve them.
 
Don't know how easy it would be, but a Mimikyu suits Joan in my head. Both are concouis about how they are seen and make an effort to change it to less than satisfactory results. Also I just love the design.
 
Just read through all of this so ideas are percolating.

Surprised no one has pointed out this potential thematic link between Mareep and the Nido family, namely that despite being related to Dragons (dinosaur-like for the Nidos, literally having Dragon blood in Mareep's case) they are in many ways the exact opposite of Dragons by being incredibly community oriented, highly sociable and easy to get along with.

In other words they are Family Mon, you know Mom-Friends, Papas, Good Eggs, the kind of Pokemon people dismiss because every civilian family has at least one acting as a HouseMon, this is what I propose our theme be. Now I know what your thinking, what's already been written about Joan clearly shows he hates HouseMon and can barely work with domestically bred Pokemon, as rebuttal I point to the fact he could tell that his families Houndoom had a spark of Wildness a few generations back and his general unease about Bugsy's Trainer-first methodology to propose that Joan doesn't hate Housemon he hates the wasted potential of a Pokemon that can only follow orders rather than help lead their allies to greater heights.

If we go with this theme the Housemon industry will have a very love-hate relationship with us, on the one hand we're drawing attention to the fact that the Family's Good Boy can make it in the Big Leagues (theoretically) on the other hand we just stole the highly empathic, perfectly even tempered Wild Mon that would have given their designer pet line just the shot in the arm it needed out from under them because we thought it would make an excellent battler (we were right of course)

As an added bonus this is one of the few proposed themes that is weighted towards some pokemon while still being able to have individual Pokemon fall into our theme, for example Nido"Queen don't need no man" and her progeny fall into our theme by nature of not being that far removed from what a Wild Nido usually is while "Steelix Mom whose got it going on" is unusually Mom-like for her line and probably has a few kids who have inherited that constructive rather than destructive instinct, meanwhile the "Rage Dragon" is even more opposed to this proposed aesthetic than the average Gyrados and should be avoided if possible. Though for those that still want to thumb their noses at the Dragon Clan we can always pick up a Dreepy once we've established ourselves, they're like Kangaskan but they don't need a Mega Stone to weaponize their Child Care.

Which leads to my next point, we're still developing a training style and we know that it will take a while to perfect so I propose a rather unique methodology based on the fact that we know Pokemon don't think like humans and if we follow my first proposal we'd be working with Pokemon for whom Child Rearing is highly important so why not use an Inhuman perspective by training our Pokemon so they can help train each other as a sort of "we all lift together" approach (I hear you like training Pokemon so I trained your Mon to train your Mon so they can train your Mon while your training mon)

Also, while a lot of people have proposed themes that I find intriguing their is a distinct lack of epithets being proposed, my contribution for my own proposal would be "Pillar of the Community" Joan.

Moving on from theming, I've really become enamored with the "Magnet Rise operated ballistic fluffball" proposal and have a potential solution for those worried what our fluffball will do once she becomes an Ampharos and has to rework her fighting style. I personally believe that a Marigold who makes extensive use of Magnet Rise will become even deadlierin the air as an Ampharos, using their mastery of electromagnetism to swim through the air and dance on an unseen wind.

In fact I propose something more extreme, multiple canons have been incorporated into this quest so somewhere there must be a Surfing Pikachu so let's aim for the heavens and have Marigold be our designated Flyer, sure it would probably be beyond her until she's an Ampharos but Flying is usually late game enough that Marigold should get their right around the time we'd be getting it in game

and their those are my ideas, what do you think ReverendSwing and everyone else is FamilyMon/Opposite of Dragons a good theme and can we potentially fly on Ampharosback or are these just pipe dreams

edit: sorry is that better, not used to having extensive ideas that don't have glaringly obvious cutoff points, will happily take suggestions for improved readability
 
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Galarians fossils, Mamoswine, wingull, luvdisc, crabominable…

I'd like to add Ambipom.


I like the idea. A "Farm" theme just rubs me the wrong way for whatever reason, but I like the idea of community focused Pokemon. And Dreepy or Swablu are the two dragons I'd really want to end up with, so things align in that regard. Not so sure on the Flying Ampharos proposal, but that's a ways away. What other Pokémon do you think would fit this Community Theme?
 
I honestly like the Swinup line tbh. One I want to avoid is Sylveon. It's just never really meshed with me; though I'm mostly a fan of Espeon or Umbreon due to their aesthetic out of all of the Eeveelutions.
 
I like the idea. A "Farm" theme just rubs me the wrong way for whatever reason, but I like the idea of community focused Pokemon. And Dreepy or Swablu are the two dragons I'd really want to end up with, so things align in that regard. Not so sure on the Flying Ampharos proposal, but that's a ways away. What other Pokémon do you think would fit this Community Theme?
Any pokemon that can naturally be found in large groups in the wild whether they be herds, packs, flocks, or swarms, though with the added caveat that the "tribe" can't be too insular think Butterfree not Beedrill and a "tribal" Dragon like Jangmo'o would be stretching our theme near to the breaking point do to their sheer competitiveness even if the whole Dragon thing didn't risk pissing off the Clan unnecessarily. It is also important to note that not all FamilyMon are always found in human families, this theme would also include Kangaskan and even Passimion if you wanted something exotic, but CommunityMon doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
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It's an interesting concept; but I feel that it locks us out of a lot of interesting mon that prefer solitude. Like Mimikyu.
 
It's an interesting concept; but I feel that it locks us out of a lot of interesting mon that prefer solitude. Like Mimikyu.
I wouldn't characterize Mimikyu as a pokemon that prefers solitude so much as one that seeks out communities to bond with rather than having a native one, our team could also have the occasional misunderstood Seeker(rather than Loner) like Absol or aforesaid Mimikyu, or a freindship evolution like Crobat or even a sufficiently friendly Hisuan Zoroark that isn't necessarily thought of as traditionally family like. though to be honest I'm not sure if I'm stretching the theme too far, or if a certain amount of elasticity is expected of a good theme, any comments on that ReverendSwing
 
Don't know how easy it would be, but a Mimikyu suits Joan in my head. Both are concouis about how they are seen and make an effort to change it to less than satisfactory results. Also I just love the design.
Mimicute is a pretty neat pokemon, yeah. Hm, it's Z-Move is Let's Snuggle Forever, does that qualify it for weaponized cuddling even without an effect on contact? I don't see a lot of other overlap with the mareep line. A certain amount of tankiness maybe?
I wouldn't characterize Mimikyu as a pokemon that prefers solitude so much as one that seeks out communities to bond with rather than having a native one, our team could also have the occasional misunderstood Seeker(rather than Loner) like Absol or aforesaid Mimikyu, or a freindship evolution like Crobat or even a sufficiently friendly Hisuan Zoroark that isn't necessarily thought of as traditionally family like. though to be honest I'm not sure if I'm stretching the theme too far, or if a certain amount of elasticity is expected of a good theme, any comments on that ReverendSwing
Now, I'm only working of the bits of information we've been given, but the basic conceit seems to be that we give ourselves restrictions on what/how we train our pokemon to then leverage the similarities between our pokemon for bonuses, so even if we can stretch our theme to include as many different pokemon as possible, everything points towards the fact that we shouldn't try to do that, because it's actively going to diminish our benefits as a trainer. That's not to say we need a theme so narrow that we can just barely scrape together the six members needed for a whole team, but there should be a balance and the fact that a theme can fit as many pokemon as possible shouldn't actually be a selling point.

As a reference, one of the mentors has a theme going where he trains "Unloved, common or easily dismissed" pokemon into battlers and often sells them as pets/bodyguards, so there's some similarities to the housemon aestetic. Except he also has a type speciality added onto that to narrow him down.

Of course, with this being a Quest, not going too vague is easier said than done. There are a lot of individuals here that want to get their own preferences into the Quest after all. But, well, let's be honest, chances are not enough pokemon are going to get screen time for everybody to get their wish, even if we didn't have a theme restricting us.

We do have precedent for pretty loose themes, but those belong to Red and Blue. Setting aside that they can basically brute force the system with protagonist privilege, right down to their themes being impossible to pull off without being handed a starter from Oak that's already a paragon of its species (at least not without boxing said starter, which is explicitly frowned upon and I don't see them being the same level of failures as Hop turned out to be. That poor Wooloo deserves a more loving trainer), they effectively swap the bonus gained from pokemon/method overlap with instead training pokemon that're just better. That being said, Marigold did partially win the "genetically better than you" lottery with her Beautiful trait, so that kind of theme that exchanges species specifics for an individual's standard of quality isn't out of our reach.
 
Truth be told that was me just stretching how far the theme could go rather than necessarily how far it should. If we need to narrow our theme we could work off the concept of "Pokemon with an especially vast difference between their Wild and Domesticated versions" like how Arcanine used to be called the Legendary Pokemon but in the domestic sector is lucky to be a police dog or "Pokemon with zero chill when family is threatened" like Kangaskhan or even "Pokemon that give great but potentially terrifying hugs" like Bewear if we want to keep the theme fluff adjacent.

it's just a matter of work shopping it until we've narrowed our focus to something we agree on and besides I'm still pretty focused on getting confirmation on if the communal training idea has any odds of working
 
The more I hear about Kigala, The more I want an Onix. They sound adorable. Giant adorable rock sneks made of balls.
Might be onery though, from what recall onix and to a greater extent steelix are pretty territorial and aggressive.

And now that I said that I can't stop thinking about how big an alpha onix probably is, and yes, I have legends Arceus on my mind now.
 
Might be onery though, from what recall onix and to a greater extent steelix are pretty territorial and aggressive.

And now that I said that I can't stop thinking about how big an alpha onix probably is, and yes, I have legends Arceus on my mind now.


Could Alpha pokemon have been what Hisua called named pokemon prior to the modern era dialog drift and League idea mixing?


Either way, This is looking like a really cool quest, like the narrative. I'm not sure if cute as a theme is going to work because i'm pretty sure everyone has a different definition of cute, afterall like I said, I find onix and aron to be cute but someone else might not.
As is I feel like a theme might just be something we discover along the journey like our trainer, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Holding out hope for giant grumpy rock snek though
 
Could Alpha pokemon have been what Hisua called named pokemon prior to the modern era dialog drift and League idea mixing?
Maybe? To me it just seems that alpha pokemon back in hisui were just bigger and badder pokemon that maybe got a little boost from the space time rift but that's debatable, named pokemon to me seem like deviants from monster hunter. Powerful individuals that stand out from the rest of their species for particular reasons.

While alpha pokemon are again, just bigger and meaner with some uncommon moves here and there.
 
Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, the ship has just kind of sailed on a dragon theme the moment we didn't pick the Blood of Dragons trait for Marigold and still trying to force it anyway isn't really worth the trouble.

I mean, it's viable given that it's a basic type affinity. Although, it could probably use some narrowing down given everything we've been told so far. Afterall, even back in Gen I Misty basically already had her policy of "All-out offensive with water types" instead of simply being a water type trainer.

That being said, mega ampharos is a too far away eventuality to base our whole training style on it and would leave our starter very much an awkward hanger on for too long for me to be comfortable with it. Just kind of latching on to wanting to stick it to the dragon clan doesn't work for me either, given that sounds like something pretty out of left field from an IC angle and really not something I care to make Joan about.

The "pseudo-dragon" angle does mitigate the problem that Marigold doesn't really fit, although it won't help her to learn dragon moves any faster. In turn though it would mean that we'd focus on training pokemon to make use of something they only tangentially qualify for and don't naturally excel at. That honestly strikes as very style over substance and also isn't something I'd be in favor of.

One of the potential mentors had a theme along that vein "Unloved, common or easily dismissed Normal Types." It's probably worth noting that he also has a type specilisation added on there, which makes sense to me. From what we have been told, the two biggest draws of a theme seems to be brand recognition and, arguably more importantly, creating an outline for a training regiment applicable to all potential members of your team, so you can use what you learned your first pokemon to do a better job training your second pokemon and so on. So yeah, technically they should be usable, but the question is how to fit them into a theme without shoehorning it.

And while I'm already on the topic, there's a couple other themes thrown around that strike me as a tad too loose to really work on their own. For example, fluffy is neat, but fluff doesn't equal fluff, so unless we go into a more contest themes direction I have trouble imagining much of a training regiment focused around the fact that our pokemon are fluffy. On the other hand, if we combined with another theme that's a bit loose, it'd probably work a lot better. For example, add in an electric type speciality and the tag line about our team being shockingly adorable basically writes itself. I guess we'll find out more soonish though.

Listen. You are right. Everything you're said so far seems completely reasonable, and makes perfect sense. But also consider.

FLUFF!
 
Could Alpha pokemon have been what Hisua called named pokemon prior to the modern era dialog drift and League idea mixing?


Either way, This is looking like a really cool quest, like the narrative. I'm not sure if cute as a theme is going to work because i'm pretty sure everyone has a different definition of cute, afterall like I said, I find onix and aron to be cute but someone else might not.
As is I feel like a theme might just be something we discover along the journey like our trainer, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Holding out hope for giant grumpy rock snek though
Wouldn't Noble Pokemon be a closer analogy?

Anyway, as somebody that thinks muk is just adorable in pokemon refresh, I feel you on the onix.
Listen. You are right. Everything you're said so far seems completely reasonable, and makes perfect sense. But also consider.

FLUFF!
It's hard to argue against fluff, but if we limit ourselves to it we can't add a goodra to the hug club. Not hugging goodra has to be one of the seven deadly poke-sins.

(As a slightly less jokey disclaimer, if I were to make a serious theme pitch it'd probably be less "weaponized cuddling" and more "Pokemon that can disable/restrain the opponent in close quarters/give a mean hug" and also move away from the focus on contact abilities. Mostly because that's purely a gameplay destinction and in a narrative format there's no reason why an onix using bind to grab its opponent shouldn't count. Between tying into the soft boi image with the hugging, the interaction with the nidos through the wrestling similarities and potentially our mentor's snake cuddle pile, I am starting to actually like the idea though.)
 
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