Counting Sheep - A Pokemon Trainer quest

So they wouldn't particularly care? I assumed since apparently marigold could have had access to dragon pulse and as a result the dragon clan would have some interest in her.

I'm just quite confused by this really, but since I kind of brought dunsparce up I guess it's my fault.
The only reason the Dragon Clan has any interest at all in Ampharos is because of their Mega evolution having the Dragon type. And even then there are so few keystones and mega stones for Ampharos that it's not worth pursuing.
 
The only reason the Dragon Clan has any interest at all in Ampharos is because of their Mega evolution having the Dragon type. And even then there are so few keystones and mega stones for Ampharos that it's not worth pursuing.
That's true, I recall seeing that info pages back, I guess it must have slipped my mind, and we are unlikely to find a dragon type for a good while anyway, with them being rare and what not. Something to worry about for later.
 
That's true, I recall seeing that info pages back, I guess it must have slipped my mind, and we are unlikely to find a dragon type for a good while anyway, with them being rare and what not. Something to worry about for later.

Do we even need a Dragon-type? Since the QM said that any Pokemon can become strong, personnally I would like to go for often ignored Pokemon like Ledyba or Wooper.
 
Do we even need a Dragon-type? Since the QM said that any Pokemon can become strong, personnally I would like to go for often ignored Pokemon like Ledyba or Wooper.
Theirs going for ignored pokemon, then going for memes like we made a ledyba viable, honestly i want teddiursa, and no i dont think we will evolve to the arcues thrid evolution, i just want cuddle bear
 
Right, sorry I haven't been answering questions - as I warned, it's been a pretty damn busy week, and honestly my weekend isn't any less so. Just thought I'd drop in to say that the update is on its way, but will deffo be late, especially since it turns out I won't have any time to work on it tomorrow. My rough estimate is Tuesday.

With regards to the whole discussion around the Dragon Clan, I'm gonna make a few final clarifications before I drop the subject altogether for a while. You're obviously still all welcome ot discuss it, but I don't want to get too bogged down answering too many questions about it unless you go down a path which will actually necessitate interacting with them.

They're a purely Kanto/Johto organisation, but that doesn't mean they're completely absent from the rest of the world. The Draconids of Hoenn are pretty isolationist as a rule, but they're on relatively good term with the Dragon Clan, a relationship whose ties are often reaffirmed by both people exchanging some of their own local dragons' for the others, and they also share some of their knowledge pool when it comes to the care of some Dragon-types they both raise. As a result, they don't have near as much of a presence in Hoenn, but they still do have one, and Drake for example acknowledges them as peers and treats them with respect. Of course, with him nearing retirement they're going to need another main contact for local politics.

Sinnoh is different, for two reasons. The first was that as demonstrated in Legends Arceus, the Hisui region was actually mostly uninhabited, prior to the expansionist push of the early 19th century. The locals had very clear, separate cultural baggage already and three whole separate factions that could fulfill the duties the Dragon Clan usually grants itself : the Diamond and Pearl Clan were already the ones in charge of ensuring peaceful cohabitation between humans and pokemon, and the lineage of the people of Celestica were the guardians of memory and tradition - and have much more legitimacy when it comes to that than the Dragon Clan, on account of being considerably older and also friends with the Prime Enamorus, a Fairy-type legendary which can mostly wreck them (not that it's ever come to that, or that the Clan knows). Considering Cynthia is the direct descendant of said people and also their chief (not that you in-quest or virtually anyone outside a very select circle knows that), there is zero space for the Clan to exist in Sinnoh under her care, but even that doesn't matter all that much - because modern Hisui was populated in great part by a mass exodus of people who wanted to leave Kanto/Johto/Hoenn behind, and for many of those from the former two there was very little desire to see the same people just turn up and take charge after they'd done all the hard work of settling.

Sinnoh may share the main continent as Kanto/Johto/Hoenn, but in many ways it's the most independent and culturally distinct of the four, even though it had less of actual 'locals' than the other three did when unification began - because it's the only one of the four with a significant history as an entire region, rather than as bits and pieces of several kingdoms and tribes mashed together because it was geographically convenient, and because even the population they would have had in common with the other three in part moved there specifically because they wanted to divorce themselves from their homes, and were all too happy to adopt the local traditions.

Unova, Kalos, Galar are all too far for a Dragon Clan presence to be logistically manageable, and no one actually wants to live in Orre. Well, nowadays it'd be possible to set a branch up, but it's entirely too late by now in terms of establishing influence. That doesn't mean there's no contacts - the Clan has a strong relationship with the Dragon trainers of Opelucid in particular, and the fact that the Unovan Champion (Iris) was a guest of the Clan in Blackthorn for over a year during her training means there's a lot of goodwill there.

Kalos... studies into the matter are still haphazard at best, and barely beginning, but early research very much suggests that the Fairy Type originates from there and was at the beginning endemic to Kalos. From there, it slowly spread through some species' migrations, and being a very dominant gene picked up increasing steam until it became as ubiquitous as it is nowadays. Kanto and Johto were some of the last regions to benefit from this (hence why dragons were such a problem locally), and the regions are actually some of the very last places on Earth where one can find small remaining enclaves of 'original strains', like Normal Type Togepi or Jigglypuff, though most of these are in tightly-controlled natural reserves set up for that very purpose (partly funded by the Dragon Clan for entirely altruistic reasons). So simply put... the Clan avoids Kalos and its myriad of fairies like the plague, and the recent scientific discoveries has given them even more cause to hate the place.

Galar just didn't really have anything that interested them, for a long time, and now that knowledge has trickled out of the likes Dragapult, Duraludon or the apple dragons... they're not that fussed about it that'd they really push for local representation against all the fight back they'd get - Galar's not huge on mingling with others, as shown by their insistence on declaring Leon the strongest Champion in the world. They've made moves to acquire some members of the species that interest them, and are happy to leave it at that. Shame no one told them about Prime Regidrago, happily sleeping away there. The fact that everyone acknowledges Raihan is the local Dragon master also comforts them in not feeling threatened, because, well... He's very good, but no match for the best the Clan has to offer.

Alola... is just really far, yeah ? Really far, and too small on top of that to be worth the effort. Hell, the Clan didn't even know it existed until slightly over a century ago. But yeah, if they had actually tried to muscle their way in... Well, the Kahunas can call on the Tapu if they feel Alola is under threat. You do the math. It's actually quite favoured as a training destination, though, particularly Poni Island.

Anyway, the Dragon Clan very much are a force on the global stage, but not a dominant one the way they are in Kanto and Johto. In Kalos and Sinnoh in particular, their influence is basically non-existent. The reason they are a global force, though, is that they are the Dragon experts, bar none. There are Dragon Trainers that grow up to be exceptional and have never had contact with the Clan, but they're very few and far in between. Clan Trainers, on the other hand, are always at least very good, and every generation produces at least a couple of candidates for the title of strongest Trainer in the joint Kanto/Johto region. Systematically. This generation is one of the weakest number-wise, and it still has the Champion and one of the strongest Gym Leaders. Iris, the Unovan Champion ? Basically went on an internship with them. Drake of Hoenn's Elite Four ? On good terms and regular correspondence with them. Drasna of Kalos' Elite Four has a much rockier relationship with them, but with the dearth of local Dragon experts still had to occasionally go to them for some training advice (at least until Cynthia heard about it and intervened at her grandmother's request).

You get the point. They don't have nearly as much hard power outside of Kanto/Johto, but the amount of soft power you get for being the world's leading Dragon experts and having friends in many high places means that they're never entirely without options. And of course, it means most of the promising independent Dragon Trainers get an actual recruitment spiel too good to turn down and get absorbed into the Clan, feeding into its myth.

So yeah, there tends to be more Dragon-type Trainers outside of Kanto/Johto, but because almost all those in those two regions have some manner of deal going on with the Clan and at least partial access to their help and archives, discounting the few exceptions who rise above with enough talent that they'd have likely done so even if they solely trained Luvdisc, they also tend to be of a higher level than those from the other regions.

Anyway, that's where I'm going to stop for the Clan. Any further investigation can be done if it becomes necessary in-quest.

And since I'm here and considering the last messages, I might as well repeat it for the sake of clarity : you can make any pokemon strong, if you train them right. It might be harder with, say, Ledian, but by no means impossible to take it to the kind of heights you would more 'obviously' strong pokemon. This is your reminder that one of the potential mentors' Aces were Furret and Spinda, and the third one had Ariados as her Ace.

On that note, I'll go back to writing a little more of the chapter before sleep beckons.
 
If fluff is what people what, we might consider Altaria? Don't think I've ever actually seen a pokemon fic/quest that has one, and just look at this fluff:




Such soft, very huggable. Embrace fluffy birb. Ignore any potential complications with the dragon clan, it'll be fiiiiiiine.

Alternative/additionally, there is Smeargle, for if we want to attack and dethrone God.
 
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If fluff is what people what, we might consider Altaria? Don't think I've ever actually seen a pokemon fic/quest that has one, and just look at this fluff:




Such soft, very huggable. Embrace fluffy birb.

Ignore any potential complications with the dragon clan, it'll be fiiiiiiine.
If we go dragon type even a little, Altaria is number one on my list. I'm not sure what #2 is, but that's not important right now. Probably Dreepy.

And, after getting past my knee jerk reaction toward the Dragon Clan, I'll admit they've got reason to be a bit heavy handed. Some newbie that thinks they're Arceus's gift to Pokémon getting their hands on a Dragon is asking for a town to get flattened by a rampaging Pokémon. Better to err on the side of caution and assume all wannabe Dragon Tamers are idiots until proven otherwise. At this point, they could be a little less dickish, but their reputation is earned.
 
If we do decide on farm theme. Mightyena, Houndoom, and any other dog Pokemon should be passable.

Hmm, maybe Garvantula might also work. Farm those strings newbie, don't worry, they just have a few thousand volt of electricity inside them.
 
If we do decide on farm theme. Mightyena, Houndoom, and any other dog Pokemon should be passable.

Hmm, maybe Garvantula might also work. Farm those strings newbie, don't worry, they just have a few thousand volt of electricity inside them.
It's the amps that kill anyways.

Silk Farms are a thing, right? Means we can do flapple for apple orchards, tropius for banana groves, etc. There's a lot of farming possibilities beyond sheep, cow, pig, chicken, horse.
 
Personally I'm hoping for a Misdreavus just because they're my favorite pokemon, but if we go for the fluffy theme hopefully we get a Cottonee/Whimsicott, because they're cute. A Meowstic would be fun too, and I don't recall them showing up in any quest or fanfic on this board.

But I really think we should wait until we actually learn how teams work before doing the planning for them.
 
Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, the ship has just kind of sailed on a dragon theme the moment we didn't pick the Blood of Dragons trait for Marigold and still trying to force it anyway isn't really worth the trouble.

I mean, it's viable given that it's a basic type affinity. Although, it could probably use some narrowing down given everything we've been told so far. Afterall, even back in Gen I Misty basically already had her policy of "All-out offensive with water types" instead of simply being a water type trainer.

That being said, mega ampharos is a too far away eventuality to base our whole training style on it and would leave our starter very much an awkward hanger on for too long for me to be comfortable with it. Just kind of latching on to wanting to stick it to the dragon clan doesn't work for me either, given that sounds like something pretty out of left field from an IC angle and really not something I care to make Joan about.

The "pseudo-dragon" angle does mitigate the problem that Marigold doesn't really fit, although it won't help her to learn dragon moves any faster. In turn though it would mean that we'd focus on training pokemon to make use of something they only tangentially qualify for and don't naturally excel at. That honestly strikes as very style over substance and also isn't something I'd be in favor of.
Do we even need a Dragon-type? Since the QM said that any Pokemon can become strong, personnally I would like to go for often ignored Pokemon like Ledyba or Wooper.
One of the potential mentors had a theme along that vein "Unloved, common or easily dismissed Normal Types." It's probably worth noting that he also has a type specilisation added on there, which makes sense to me. From what we have been told, the two biggest draws of a theme seems to be brand recognition and, arguably more importantly, creating an outline for a training regiment applicable to all potential members of your team, so you can use what you learned your first pokemon to do a better job training your second pokemon and so on. So yeah, technically they should be usable, but the question is how to fit them into a theme without shoehorning it.

And while I'm already on the topic, there's a couple other themes thrown around that strike me as a tad too loose to really work on their own. For example, fluffy is neat, but fluff doesn't equal fluff, so unless we go into a more contest themes direction I have trouble imagining much of a training regiment focused around the fact that our pokemon are fluffy. On the other hand, if we combined with another theme that's a bit loose, it'd probably work a lot better. For example, add in an electric type speciality and the tag line about our team being shockingly adorable basically writes itself. I guess we'll find out more soonish though.
 
So, while thinking about Farm Pokemon, I am trying to think about how far can we stretch the term. So I ask you all this.

Can a Vaporeon be categorized as a Catfish?
 
On the other hand, if we combined with another theme that's a bit loose, it'd probably work a lot better.
Tuff Fluff

A theme encompasing "soft" pokemon who want to show the world that they can kick ass/deserve respect similar to our mc.

There's also someone who obliquely (which I tried to expand upon as well) suggested a Soft Control or Fluff Control theme somewhere before.

I'm just saying that elemental type is not the only way to add specificity to any theme.
 
Tuff Fluff

A theme encompasing "soft" pokemon who want to show the world that they can kick ass/deserve respect similar to our mc.

There's also someone who obliquely (which I tried to expand upon as well) suggested a Soft Control or Fluff Control theme somewhere before.

I'm just saying that elemental type is not the only way to add specificity to any theme.
Yeah, that someone was me. (Well, I was mostly just musing on a control based theme in general after joltik was brought up, but without something to refine it that strikes me as too loose a theme as well, so working fluffy pokemon in there is an option.) While it makes a convenient and easy to explain example, we definetly aren't limited to just slapping a type speciality onto something else, but that's secondary to the point that I don't think we should stop at throwing a bunch of pokemon that happen to be fluffy onto the same team and then figure out what we'll do with them afterwards.
 
Marill's line is like otters in that they have water repellent fur, having a azumarill would be real neatnot gonna lie, pikablue is a neat pokemon with great coverage
 
Marill's line is like otters in that they have water repellent fur, having a azumarill would be real neatnot gonna lie, pikablue is a neat pokemon with great coverage
That kind of brings me back to needing something to tie the team together beyond just them being fluffy. The water repellent fur somewhat lends itself to tying in with mareep's rubbery skin for something along the lines of "good at countering its own element" but even then something with Water Absorb/Storm Drain would be vastly superior, just as a Lightning Rod pokemon would beat out an ampharos's rubbery skin.

Thinking about it myself for a bit, the best way I can think of to tie-in a fluffy theme with an actual training regiment would be going with contact related qualities. So, mareep using the electricity stored in its wool to trigger the static ability, something Marigold would be great at between Battery and Charge and seemed like she might enjoy when the wingul crashed into her. Likewise we get beware and wooloo using their fluffiness to reduce the damage of contact moves and the likes of wigglytuff gets their cute charm ability from having fur so soft that their opponents just lose themselves in wanting to pet them.

There's some wiggle room like "does ponyta's fire mane qualify as fluff" or "Is a jellicent's seafoam mustache thingy actually fluffy," but in general I think it manages to do a pretty good job of combining the asthetic theme of being fluffy with a practical aplication we can train our pokemons for. Moving the focus to on contact effects also means that Marigold will still perfectly fit into the theme during the awkward ampharos teenage phase where she sheds most of her fur, but hasn't achived mega evolution yet to regrow it.

They think we're weak because we look cute and soft? Then so be it!

Cuddling itself shall be our weapon!

Maybe. Possibly. I'm not entirely sold on a singular theme yet.
 
An idea we could do for a Fluffy theme is to have a sub-theme connected to it. Like how Edgedancer suggested the Fluffy theme with a subtheme of contact moves. I would like to suggest a sub theme of Fluffy being to focus on training a Pokemon's natural characteristic. Basically instead of hard focusing on training moves we focus on Marigolds ability to feel electromagnetic field. Another example is training a Electrike to stimulate their muscles with electricity at a moments notice. What I love about this theme is that it will catch most trainers off guard since they will be focusing on what moves a Pokemon knows and not the Pokemon's natural characteristics.
 
But I really think we should wait until we actually learn how teams work before doing the planning for them.
I don't mind, personally. At the very least it lets us bounce Pokémon ideas off each other. Better to find out someone vehemently despises Rhyperior now than after deciding on a "Construction" theme.

And on that note, are there Pokemon people don't want to catch?
 
I don't mind, personally. At the very least it lets us bounce Pokémon ideas off each other. Better to find out someone vehemently despises Rhyperior now than after deciding on a "Construction" theme.

And on that note, are there Pokemon people don't want to catch?
Personally, I can't think of many of them off the top of my head? Even if there's a Pokemon that I don't particularly like, I am okay with exploring its options if the rest are enthusiastic about it. My only preferences are to have a large flyer and surfer for ease of travels, but for the rest, I'll wait and see.

I'd rather not catch wingull or luvdisc if at all possible, not a big fan of them and personally I just wind them ugly looking. And they aren't particularly exciting to me too, pelipper being one of my most disliked pokemon.
I agree, too. There's also the point about ease of travel, which unless we have a raft or something to be pulled around, we probably want a large sea-faring Pokemon to sit on as our water type rather then running two water types in the team. If our theme allows for that or even encourages it like being a water type specialist, then I guess that's fine? But otherwise, I'm not a fan.
 
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Just caught up with this quest so far and the length and quality of updates is astounding, even if we're still in the tutorial section.

On theme/mon choice, this is where we've been given enough rope to hang ourselves - if we can pick from "almost all pokemon" to build our theme choice paralysis is a thing. I'd rather have like 10 options for our second mon and have to just pick one so can rate them against each other. I do wonder what we'll do once we finish this section, don't yet have a rival or other characters of a similar level to bounce off - I think why people have grasped the idea of pissing off the Dragon Clan in need of a villain.

For a potential fluff/fur theme, Zangoose and Absol could be medium-term goals as both are cool, powerful mons that would still fit. For our next mon, I'd be into picking up a Swablu or Marill. Maybe a Elekid/Electrobuzz? It seems fairly easy to find a "meh" example of a pokemon in this universe, but alot harder to find a type work training/battling with even for common pokemon.
 
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