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Congregation of Despair (Mafia - Second Attempt)

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Nictis said:
Personally, I like Yun right now. From what I can see the lynch started as one based on inactivity and solidified because he claimed to not have anything to do at all because it's meming time, when that's just not the case. He's getting into it now, but saying that there's nothing you can do so why bother is usually a quick way to gather ire.

BB has already pointed out a lot of things that you can do, but I want to add on to it and say that these questions he's giving could have cut us out of the RVS a lot earlier than now because it really is just us filling the air and developing voting patterns for later. Once there's something to actively discuss we tend to actually, y'know, discuss it instead of posting jokes about how Vamp is spelled.

You can have the most perfect speck of sand in existence, but if you only have a single speck then it's likely to be indistinguishable from anything else. You need some level of quantity in order to actually have a quality, and quite frankly Yun had neither at the time.
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Okay, but how exactly does this lead to a scum read? What about what they have done makes you think that they're scum? The entire push is seemingly predicated on people being annoyed at Yun, not any real evidence. As I said, at the point Yun started getting bandwagoned, they were no more or less suspicious than all the other people who had only posted jokes. Are we really just going to lynch someone because we got annoyed at them wanting to wait until the serious stuff started? Is there an obligation to be one of the first to end the joking phase? If so, there are a lot more people than just Yun who should be on the chopping block.

My conclusion is that none of you are voting to lynch them because you actually think they're scum, you're just doing it because they have different priorities than you.
 
Nanimani said:
Why did we switch off TheMaskedReader again?
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You were the only one that'd joined Nictis and the only one that switched off so um

I considered joining that vote before going to sleep last night (and I probably should have) but I ended up doing nothing.

1KBestK said:
Okay, but how exactly does this lead to a scum read? What about what they have done makes you think that they're scum? The entire push is seemingly predicated on people being annoyed at Yun, not any real evidence. As I said, at the point Yun started getting bandwagoned, they were no more or less suspicious than all the other people who had only posted jokes. Are we really just going to lynch someone because we got annoyed at them wanting to wait until the serious stuff started? Is there an obligation to be one of the first to end the joking phase? If so, there are a lot more people than just Yun who should be on the chopping block.

My conclusion is that none of you are voting to lynch them because you actually think they're scum, you're just doing it because they have different priorities than you.
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Nictis never voted Yun, fyi.
 
Absum said:
You were the only one that'd joined Nictis and the only one that switched off so um

I considered joining that vote before going to sleep last night (and I probably should have) but I ended up doing nothing.


Nictis never voted Yun, fyi.
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Oh, didn't notice. They said they 'liked yun right now,' so I jsut assumed they had already voted.
 
[X] Lynch TheMaskedReader

I'm not going to meddle with the Yun stuff right now on account of me helping scum lynch Yun in my very first game (like Nictis they tend to read as pretty suspicious to me somehow). I don't really like the way Happerry joined that vote either but I prefer to go for low-activity for now.

1KBestK said:
Oh, didn't notice. They said they 'liked yun right now,' so I jsut assumed they had already voted.
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Oh, I assumed they meant that in a positive sense, not as in liking the vote on them. Though I think your read on that makes more sense.
 
[X] Lynch TheMaskedReader​

I'm going to help pressure MaskedReader as well since I don't actually think Dovah is scum.
 
Nanimani said:
Why did we switch off TheMaskedReader again?
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I mean, I'm still voting @TheMaskedReader, you stopped though.
Oshha said:
Is this sarcasm or not? I can't tell.
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It's not, you're already looking at the reasoning for why someone would join a wagon.
1KBestK said:
Okay, but how exactly does this lead to a scum read? What about what they have done makes you think that they're scum? The entire push is seemingly predicated on people being annoyed at Yun, not any real evidence. As I said, at the point Yun started getting bandwagoned, they were no more or less suspicious than all the other people who had only posted jokes. Are we really just going to lynch someone because we got annoyed at them wanting to wait until the serious stuff started? Is there an obligation to be one of the first to end the joking phase? If so, there are a lot more people than just Yun who should be on the chopping block.

My conclusion is that none of you are voting to lynch them because you actually think they're scum, you're just doing it because they have different priorities than you.
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You... Do realize that I'm not voting him, right? And that even for the people who are voting him, it's not a matter of different priorities, it's a matter of "We asked him to help and he said no."

Votes are a tool, you use them to incentivize certain behavior. You vote inactives so they stop lurking and you can get some kind of read off them.
Absum said:
You were the only one that'd joined Nictis and the only one that switched off so um

I considered joining that vote before going to sleep last night (and I probably should have) but I ended up doing nothing.


Nictis never voted Yun, fyi.
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Ah, beat me to it.
Absum said:
(like Nictis they tend to read as pretty suspicious to me somehow)
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And you're already doing better than a lot of the veterans :p
 
Okay I guess we're still only even with the Yun vote which I hadn't really realized was that big but seeing those three posts in sequence makes me go all anime sweatdrop
 
Nictis said:
It's not, you're already looking at the reasoning for why someone would join a wagon.
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Cool.

Since we're talking about why someone might join a wagon, I think it is possible that Swarmingu might be scum, but since they are being inactive, a scum partner of theirs might be voting in a wagon to avoid drawing attention to their inactivity and maybe get someone else who isn't their scum partner killed. If they can do that, Swarmingu would be mod-killed at their current rate of participation and replaced by one of the reserve players, who would hopefully be a more active scum partner to them.
 
Oshha said:
Since we're talking about why someone might join a wagon, I think it is possible that Swarmingu might be scum, but since they are being inactive, a scum partner of theirs might be voting in a wagon to avoid drawing attention to their inactivity and maybe get someone else who isn't their scum partner killed. If they can do that, Swarmingu would be mod-killed at their current rate of participation and replaced by one of the reserve players, who would hopefully be a more active scum partner to them.
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They currently won't be modkilled, going by the rules. I am still interesting in seeing @Swarmingu post again though.
 
Nictis said:
They currently won't be modkilled, going by the rules. I am still interesting in seeing @Swarmingu post again though.
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Wrong term, my bad. I meant that they would be replaced by one of the players from the reserve list, which I confused with mod-killing.

Basically if @Swarmingu is scum, but inactive, any scum partners of theirs could use wagons (we're talking about bandwagons right) to draw attention from Swarmingu until they get replaced with a player from the reserve list, who would hopefully be active. I would suggest Dovah as a scum partner of
Swarmingu from how they have been ignoring Swarmingu's inactivity, but I believe that they might have just been looking at the number of replies to the thread rather than how many posts have been made since the game started.​
 
Oshha said:
Wrong term, my bad. I meant that they would be replaced by one of the players from the reserve list, which I confused with mod-killing.

Basically if @Swarmingu is scum, but inactive, any scum partners of theirs could use wagons (we're talking about bandwagons right) to draw attention from Swarmingu until they get replaced with a player from the reserve list, who would hopefully be active. I would suggest Dovah as a scum partner of
Swarmingu from how they have been ignoring Swarmingu's inactivity, but I believe that they might have just been looking at the number of replies to the thread rather than how many posts have been made since the game started.​
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Missed the time to respond to your original post on this, will go back to it now (had time to read it but not respond).

I (almost) never use anything but the Who Posted to determine activity unless it's at 1-2 posts. I also don't usually reread games in general unless looking at someone specifically to see scum. That's actually kind of irrelevant, but anyway.

Don't remember why I wanted to respond to that other post (haven't reread it, going to look now).
 
Oshha said:
Hmm. I like this reasoning as it puts into words what has been bugging me about the current votes for Yun. The logic makes sense and it adds up with what I was told here:

Which is good advice that judging from the ratings, it is generally agreed to be good advice.​
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It's generally good advice, yeah, and I see where you would agree with 1KBestK's post. SV in my memory is a bit heavy on the memeing, so I think people get used to it being the standard perhaos a bit much.
Looking at things with my newbie perspective, I think it is the opposite of what I was advised that Yun with his fewer, but more meaningful posts of explaining why they are not posting much is more suspicious than the more plentiful, but meaningless meme posts. Frankly, I find the fact that Yun has the most votes to be suspicious since the reasoning of having fewer participation is false in my perspective since giving what is a reasonable explanation that they are being less active because they don't feel like meming, but don't want to end the fun of other players by ending the meme phase early.[/quote)
Maybe this was it? I dunno. The thing is, on Day 1, a lynch train this early is not that likely to get you much.

There's ... I'm actually kind of reconsidering my whole Day 1 philosophy right now due to multiple factors. I may discuss this in greater depth later, once it's a bit more concrete for me.
Whether or not that explanation is true or not, I don't know, but I certainly find it to be contributing and it is definitely more meaningful than meaningless meme posts. And yet Yun is getting called out for lack of participation because of the quantity of their posters rather than the quality of them. From what I can tell, folks seem to be looking at the number of posts being made when they are looking to see who has been contributing rather than looking at the contents of them.
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Yeah, people do. I'm especially bad about it because I am if nothing else typically a high quantity poster.
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Furthermore, @Swarmingu has only a single post, but no one is complaining about their lack of participation and when I got called out by @Dovah with this factually incorrect claim that I had the lowest posts when Swarmingu has only made a single post at the time while I had two.


When I brought Swarmingu's lack of activity, it was ignored in favour of focusing on myself and Yun with me being ignored as a newbie.
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Maybe this was it, because I remember checking the Who Replied and being confused by this. Makes sense now.
Anyway, I am going to vote for Dovah.

While a few people are going for Yun, I am voting for Dovah because I find them to be the most suspicious. BrokenBase seems to just be voting for Yun to try and push things out of the meme phase and so does Nanimani. I find it suspicious that Happerry is voting for Yun on the apparent grounds that Yun doesn't like meme voting and would vote to lynch them if it wasn't for the fact I find Dovah to be more suspicious.

Not only has Dovah make the factually incorrect claim that I was the newbie with the least posts as Swarmingu had made one post to my two at the time, but they have also been making claims that Yun and I have been totally inactive when we have made some posts while completely failing to mention the fact that Swarmingu made a single post shortly after the start of day 1 and has not contributed at all since.
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Yes, total inactivity was inaccurate. I was being lazy because it was Day 1 and just went with my memory.
It isn't much to go on and if it wasn't for Swarmingu's lack of participation being ignored, I would be voting for Happerry, but I am voting to lynch Dovah.

[X] Lynch Dovah
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*adds tally mark*

Jokes aside, I think newer players may vote me not for prodding them but for something else. That is something I do need to figure out if it's the case. I definitely think Oshha had a reason for voting me, but I feel historically I've gotten votes just for inactivity votes.
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1KBestK said:
Honestly, you two going lockstep into lynching someone for not participating much when almost everyone was still meming is actually sus as hell to me, especially given how fast the bandwagon grew. When the content of people's posting is largely nonserious, I think it's totally understandable to not be interested in playing, because there's nothing really to dig into. All we really can talk about is the setup, which is closed so we actually don't know enough right now to meaningfully discern much beyond speculation at wording. Lynching Yun because they didn't post during the meming phase over someone like me who technically has some posts but has the same level of actual contribution seems like a bad idea. To reiterate, everyone who was just meming effectively have the same level of game participation as Yun. Just because I posted a funny haha Nicolas Cage clip doesn't mean I'm less suspicious than Yun.
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This is silly. I myself indicated that I was uncomfortable with how quickly the wagon grew, I just don't have a better target at the moment so I haven't switched off yet. It's also right at the end of the RVS, so nobody is going to have an ironclad case on anybody, we're just sending out feelers and making arguments to see people's reactions and what shakes out. I don't necessarily think that Yun is a great suspect, but he's the best I've had so far at the beginning of the day, so I'm working through my suspicions and seeing what I think of them in a couple pages or so.

I like the fact that you yourself suggest yourself as a suspect, but I admit that I find it a little scummy and a lot ironic that after calling me suspicious for jumping on a rapidly growing wagon for activity which is a nulltell, you joined the rapidly growing wagon on TMR when the only argument against him that I've seen is that he's not posting much...?
 
That said, eh, I personally like Yun's responses well enough.

[x] Null

I might vote Happerry next, I'm looking at their iso and not liking what I'm seeing, but I'll have to give it a bit more thought.
 
Broken Base said:
This is silly. I myself indicated that I was uncomfortable with how quickly the wagon grew, I just don't have a better target at the moment so I haven't switched off yet. It's also right at the end of the RVS, so nobody is going to have an ironclad case on anybody, we're just sending out feelers and making arguments to see people's reactions and what shakes out. I don't necessarily think that Yun is a great suspect, but he's the best I've had so far at the beginning of the day, so I'm working through my suspicions and seeing what I think of them in a couple pages or so.

I like the fact that you yourself suggest yourself as a suspect, but I admit that I find it a little scummy and a lot ironic that after calling me suspicious for jumping on a rapidly growing wagon for activity which is a nulltell, you joined the rapidly growing wagon on TMR when the only argument against him that I've seen is that he's not posting much...?
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It does feel like Yun is getting a little too much defense, doesn't it?

That's the feeling I've been getting from it anyways. Especially looking at how they vote...
 
Broken Base said:
This is silly. I myself indicated that I was uncomfortable with how quickly the wagon grew, I just don't have a better target at the moment so I haven't switched off yet. It's also right at the end of the RVS, so nobody is going to have an ironclad case on anybody, we're just sending out feelers and making arguments to see people's reactions and what shakes out. I don't necessarily think that Yun is a great suspect, but he's the best I've had so far at the beginning of the day, so I'm working through my suspicions and seeing what I think of them in a couple pages or so.

I like the fact that you yourself suggest yourself as a suspect, but I admit that I find it a little scummy and a lot ironic that after calling me suspicious for jumping on a rapidly growing wagon for activity which is a nulltell, you joined the rapidly growing wagon on TMR when the only argument against him that I've seen is that he's not posting much...?
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I meant to not quote you i think, because halfway through writing my response I went to check and saw you trying to get serious before most people, and the post you made concerning the bandwagon. I'm just unfortunately very distracted and it's hard to type because I'm alone with my parents dogs and they keep jumping all over me lol.

Also, my point was largely that I thought the reasoning people were using was rather shit. If people wanted to lynch someone for inactivity, themaskedreader actually hasn't posted since the very beginning. Deciding to continue to pressure someone who has actually responded when there are those who just haven't really posted is dumb if you're going to be using that reasoning, which I obviously don't have a problem with, as I'm lynching TMR right now. Given nothing else about Yun was really suspicious, it read to me like people ignoring their own previous reasoning to lynch someone that annoyed them.
 
Nictis said:
It does feel like Yun is getting a little too much defense, doesn't it?

That's the feeling I've been getting from it anyways. Especially looking at how they vote...
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Eh, I'm honestly thinking that people are defending against a wagon that grew a little fast and are thus skeptical of it; I'm a bit bemused that that skepticism doesn't seem to extend to the TMR wagon at all, but I'm going to want a TMR flip before I start to make more out of that.
 
1KBestK said:
I meant to not quote you i think, because halfway through writing my response I went to check and saw you trying to get serious before most people, and the post you made concerning the bandwagon. I'm just unfortunately very distracted and it's hard to type because I'm alone with my parents dogs and they keep jumping all over me lol.

Also, my point was largely that I thought the reasoning people were using was rather shit. If people wanted to lynch someone for inactivity, themaskedreader actually hasn't posted since the very beginning. Deciding to continue to pressure someone who has actually responded when there are those who just haven't really posted is dumb if you're going to be using that reasoning, which I obviously don't have a problem with, as I'm lynching TMR right now. Given nothing else about Yun was really suspicious, it read to me like people ignoring their own previous reasoning to lynch someone that annoyed them.
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Honestly, at least for me, I'm so used to TMR being inactive for RL reasons I kinda just skimmed over that.

Anyway.

[X] Null
 
[X] Lynch TheMaskedReader

Okay, this is enough voteflipping from me. It stays until someone gives me a good reason to vote for someone else instead.
 
[X] Lynch Swarmingu

Too many vote for TMR now when they have yet to reply so I am switching to another person who hasn't been very active.
 
I mainly voted against Yun because his posts from around 142 to 152 hit me as 'trying to find an excuse not to participate', which while related to his (then) lack of posting, the lack of posting wasn't the specific reason I hit him with a vote.

As that got a decent enough response, might as well start poking someone else now for more data.

[X] Lynch Swarmingu
Adhoc vote count started by Happerry on Jun 21, 2019 at 3:07 PM, finished with 150 posts and 12 votes.
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