I'm going to make one final appeal here before the update (hopefully) arrives.
I really do think that if we aren't taking this opportunity to salvage stone this turn, we're making a mistake we may come to regret. I posted this earlier under the spoiler so you may have missed it, but we have one hundred and eight Stone worth of projects to complete, just counting the walls we have left to do, and expanding to the eastern bank. That doesn't include a single additional district, or a single additional wall once we've built onto the eastern bank. Increasing imports next turn will help, at a cost, but it's still a massive hill to climb.
We desperately need more Stone right now, and the tumbled masonry of ruined warehouses is not going to be an irreplaceable cultural artefact or some sort of magical lost Numenorean superweapon that can fire lasers at Mordor. If Lond Daer was like Orthanc, it wouldn't have been sacked three times, and we couldn't salvage it if we wanted to.
There will also be other missed opportunities; getting a trade deal with Tharbad now they've declared independence, trying to invite Northmen to form our own Rohan in unoccupied territory, and a third trade ship if winters aren't exceedingly bad.
Vote for the plan you like best and do so with pride, but please consider carefully before you do. That's all I ask.
Updated the plan and the attendant bookkeeping. Changed the Ciryarámar to a third Ciralya after finding out from @Sayle that the former is essentially a naval vessel and can't really function as a generalist. Added in a Drill Square and an Armourers. Don't think the third tier are worth it right now, since they're expensive and don't actually do anything but give options which we won't be utilising right now anyway.
Apologies for not addressing this and your other post on the topic before; I've been a bit busy. To briefly go through my reasons here, spoilered for length:
- We do in my view face a bit of a Stone crisis right now; this isn't simply a case of me trying to be a cheapskate. If you look at the build list, fully walling the city and expanding to the other bank will cost one hundred and eight Stone. That's before we build a single district, or more walls for the East side. Our current income is inadequate to the task, and even with extra imports soon, it's still a very daunting task. Every little helps right now
- It's true that the original haven is ancient, but I sincerely doubt that Lond Daer has a wealth of cultural treasures, and in the unlikely event that it does, I'm unsure why we'd choose them to salvage. It's inaccurate however to characterise it as some great wonder of Middle Earth or site of special cultural significance; Lond Daer is never described in those kind of terms, and there are plenty of sites which are. Lond Daer is honestly not described that much at all except in generalities; it's not hugely important in the grand scheme of the narrative. It was a port, shipyard, and logsitics hub which declined when local timber did. There are probably some nice looking ruins, but we aren't talking about the Dome of Stars here.
- Also the original settlement of Lond Daer was apparently destroyed like, a few times, by local wildmen pissed off about their forests getting cut down. (Sound familiar?) There may not even be much of the original settlement left; I imagine most of it is more recent construction; the remnants of walls, warehouses, etc.. That's primarily what I want to salvage.
- If there are genuine works of beauty left standing there, I'm not sure why we'd choose to scavenge them for stone. They're going to be a very small proportion of the ruins compared to all of the masonry left over from being a big logistics hub.
- I think you need to decide whether Lond Daer has black stone in the manner of Orthanc or not. If it does, then we couldn't salvage it if we wanted to; the stuff is fucking indestructible by steel tools. So there's no issue. If it doesn't, then there's also no issue with "looting Orthanc". Either way this particular point kind of refutes itself.
- I don't think a comparison to Bree and Fornost is quite apt. The Breelanders are a different ethnicity from the Dúnedain, they're culturally distinct; they couldn't really claim any legitimate ownership over their ruins. They were also kind of scared shitless of Dúnedain ghosts and thought Fornost was haunted, naming it Deadman's Dike. Also they didn't build that much in stone to begin with so it wouldn't even be that worth it. This is a quite different situation; we're salvaging our own inheritance, we do not fear any memories in Lond Daer, and we do need the stone.
All this being said, there is certainly a valid in-character reason to want to leave the ruins exactly as they are, down to the last stone.
If we venerate our heritage more than our future, if we believe that all our glories are in the past, then it makes sense to treat even the tumbled stones of a supply depot as sacred. This mentality isn't alien to the Dúnedain in exile, it's very much in character for them. Constantly brooding over their vanished glories, and the diminishment of their lifespans. (Ironically, this led to further diminishment.) It's happening in Gondor right now, where great tombs for the dead are becoming more prestigious than the houses of the living. We can go that way if we want.
Or we can believe that we have glories yet to come. That our story is not simply the epilogue to a vanished glorious past. That we can rebuild. In that light, making some of the work of our ancestors live again by using it to rebuild our fallen kingdom all the stronger is honouring them. We can believe in a new dawn, even if much is lost to us.
Let me attempt to address this:
This is Middle Earth.
The rules of the local metaphysics suggest that diminishment is the lot of everything and everyone who walks the Earth.
You WILL never match the glories of the old days, barring direct intervention of Eru Iluvatar or maybe the Valar.
The Valar were never able to replace the Gold and Silver Trees. There will never be another craftsman like Feanor, or a warrior like Fingolfin.
We will never see the like of Nargothrond again. There will never be a new set of palantiri, or a reforging of the Rings of Power.
Sauron will never regain the fair form he used to have before the sinking of Numenor, or gather the same strength in Dragons or Balrogs that Melkor did.
Diminishment applies to us all; those are rules of the local cosmology.
And yet the dwarves prospered and multiplied. So did most of the elves, before Melkor took a hand.
There is no reason we cannot do the same.
We can strike a balance between the worst of Old Gondor, the obliviousness of the Middle Men and the destructiveness of the destro factions.
We took in the remnants of the sons of Hathar; we are not so fool as to sit in empty houses recounting genealogy, even if Arveduin's wife is the daughter of the previous Gondorian king.
We do not need to do it by tearing down and trashing our heritage in order to get a transient discount on building material.
Old Craft has Power in this cosmology; witness stuff like the Seat of Seeing on Amon Hen.
Barring corruption by Destro, or literal "We are going to die otherwise" dire straits, this is not stuff you destroy or recycle.
Consider how much trouble we are going to ransom the Ring of Barathir.
It's like selling your birthright for a mess of pottage.
An abandoned logistics port and shipyard that was destroyed and rebuilt quickly several times isn't necessarily "old craft" in a relevant sense here, IMO. The fading of old wonders to make room for the new* is central to Tolkien's mythos, but if anything this highlights the fact that we shouldn't be needlessly attached to the past, so much so that we won't even touch tumbled stones. If there are sites there of great cultural value, or any enduring works of genuinely great craft that would be hard to reproduce today, then I trust that @Sayle won't screw us by having us destroy them for no reason. But what will vastly predominate is lots of tumbled masonry from the ton of warehouses and support buildings to support them that were once there, because it's a ruined shipyard and logistics hub. That's what we'd be aiming to recover.
And there are very real and very tangible concerns motivating that. I'm not sure how we're ever going to get the city walled at this rate. To be frank it is more than a little ridiculous to compare rubble from a temporary shipyard to the friggin' Ring of Barahir. Any point you might have is being crushed under the weight of how hard you're overstating it. I think it may be best to leave things here at this point, and will be heading off to bed, although feel free to get the last word if you'd like.
*(It's something of a misconception ironically quite close to Sauron's to view this purely as diminishment, although there is an element of that.)
There will also be other missed opportunities; getting a trade deal with Tharbad now they've declared independence, trying to invite Northmen to form our own Rohan in unoccupied territory, and a third trade ship if winters aren't exceedingly bad.
1) Tharbad's value for trade was as an overland stopover between Arnor and Gondor; we do not have secure roads to Tharbad, and Calernadhorn has been depopulated by disease. Ergo, a trade deal with Tharbad is not an immediate priority; we have yet to secure the road between Ost and Bree.
When we do, then we consider the longer overland route to Tharbad.
2) Gondor got Rohan when the Rohirrim came to their aid in war.
In contrast, the last set of Northmen the Dunedain had to deal with supported the Witch King.
When Arnor split into three kingdoms(Arthedain, Cardolan and Rhudaur), Rhuadaur was hostile to the other two; it was also the most populated by Hillmen.It's last couple of kings were not Numenorean, but were of Hillmen blood. The kingdom was allied to Angmar, and eventually annexed by it.
They were taught sorcery by Angmar.
There is going to be significant prejudice against Hillmen or anyone coming from the region of, or beyond the Ettenmoors among the Dunedain; old wounds remain fresh.
Furthermore, there is no indication that there is anything like the population surplus that allowed Eorl the Young to lead the migration to Gondor's aid.
That happened in TA 2500, literally 500 years and multiple generations from now. The Great Plague was only four hundred years ago.
Very quickly before I go to bed:
i) Tharbad is pretty far to the South relative to Fornost, let alone Carn Dûm. I wouldn't expect overland routes there to be hugely dangerous, with the remnants of Angmar's creatures and armies being concentrated in the North for the most part. The Rangers should be able to deal with anything that does get that far South. We'll also have a trade fleet soon, meaning that river trade should be a possibility.
ii) There is a significant cultural difference between the Northmen who have at this point been serving in the Army of Gondor, with a half-Northman on the throne of Gondor at one point, and the Hillmen. Northmen would have comprised a large component of the army which defeated the Witch King and liberated Fornost. I don't believe is something we wouldn't be able to recogise, we seem to have kept in fairly good contact with Gondor. We aren't looking for a mass exodus, just 1 or 2 Population to start would be fine. They've only fairly recently settled in the upper Vales of Anduin right now, which are not hugely spacious, so even a few Houses deciding to come here instead where there's a lot of free land could be quite significant in the long run.
Neither of these will necessarily work, it's true. But we very little trying, and stand to gain if they do work. So they're worth trying, IMO.
EDIT: I hope other players aren't getting bored by all these arguments. I apologise if that's the case.
The early settlement was destroyed and rebuilt.
By the time of the War of the Elves against Sauron it was pretty damn well established; it's name literally means Great Haven.
It's older than Annuminas, older than Minas Anor and Minas Ithil, older than Osgiliath, older than Orthanc.
It's lasted longer than all of them without maintenance of any sort.
Annuminas is marked as a ruin on our map; Elessar made it one of his homes literally a thousand years hence.
If I'm following your argument, we should be breaking it down for spare parts right now and portaging the stone downriver.
Needless is a value judgement, and I do not share your assessment of this site.
Breaking down well-found fortifications around what used to be a major city/military base in what is a strategic location doesn't really seem a good idea.
The Old Numenorians and Old Gondor could afford to abandon it, because they had other options; Arnor does not.
Not any longer.
The efforts to establish a watchful presence are harder than anticipated when many of the newly named rangers are killed in the first year. Angmar has been overthrown, but its forces were scattered and marauding bands of orcs and other ill things come out of the wilderness and attack those who remain. While without central leadership attrition and infighting will push the orcs back to their strongholds in the mountains and hills, it will be decades before the lands are as safe as they were in the waning days of Arnor, before true evil made task of its destruction.
That was only ten years ago. And the Witch-King is active again in Mordor; has been for twenty years, which means a certain amount of CnC is available.
We have prior security commitments to Bree, and only 1 unit of Military, in addition to militia.
And Gondor can't carry any of the slack for road security; at the moment the Witch-King and the other Nazgul are besieging Minas Ithil, if this timeline is anything like canon. Sweeping the roads to Tharbad really isn't an immediate priority.
Give it a turn or two while we consolidate; we can trade with Gondor by sea in the meantime.
2)Are we talking Rhovanion?
Rhovanion first lost more than half it's population to the Great Plague, was conquered by the Wainriders, and then had large amounts of it's population emigrate to Gondor? That Rhovanion? Dunno why you think they are dispossessed.
And no, nothing in the record I can find states that Rhovanion sent forces to Arnor; if you can find it, I would appreciate a cite.
EDIT
We probably need to sell Gondor metal for the next turn.
Maybe Wood as well; since they are fighting the Lord of Winter, that may be an issue.
Well it looks close, but counting previous votes for unamended plans Uju's plan Snowball edges out by one vote - 9 to 8. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Also you've convinced me to allow plan name voting, since it's getting a bit complicated.
I wouldnt mind either plan winning to be honest but voted for snowball.
I find the argument about looting old settlements for stone very strange to be honest so maybe lets discontinue that.
my thought about tharbad trade was by river not by land to be honest?
and as someone said we shouldnt be closed to immigration if it isnt hillpeople apparently since pop is a very big limiting factor especially if its free.
If you're equally happy with both plans but like the idea of trying to get a trade agreement with Tharbad and seeing if we can get some immigration from the Éothéod to form an allied kingdom, then you may want to swap votes. Or not of course, but currently it's only in Securing.
Also just a quick general note: I'm going to amend the action about stone salvage in a second to include a specific clause that we shouldn't touch any remaining great works of artistry or craft, if there are any. (Although I doubt there are.) I would think this was kind of obvious, since most of the stone there is just going to be random masonry from warehouses and the like, but why not play it safe.
That was only ten years ago. And the Witch-King is active again in Mordor; has been for twenty years, which means a certain amount of CnC is available.
We have prior security commitments to Bree, and only 1 unit of Military, in addition to militia.
And Gondor can't carry any of the slack for road security; at the moment the Witch-King and the other Nazgul are besieging Minas Ithil, if this timeline is anything like canon. Sweeping the roads to Tharbad really isn't an immediate priority.
Give it a turn or two while we consolidate; we can trade with Gondor by sea in the meantime.
2)Are we talking Rhovanion?
Rhovanion first lost more than half it's population to the Great Plague, was conquered by the Wainriders, and then had large amounts of it's population emigrate to Gondor? That Rhovanion? Dunno why you think they are dispossessed.
And no, nothing in the record I can find states that Rhovanion sent forces to Arnor; if you can find it, I would appreciate a cite.
EDIT
We probably need to sell Gondor metal for the next turn.
Maybe Wood as well; since they are fighting the Lord of Winter, that may be an issue.
I.
Our Rangers took casualties when scouting our former realm, which I'm assuming would most logically be focused around the core territories Arthedain. Tharbad is three hundred miles south of Fornost; it's pretty much the southernmost major settlement of old Arnor. Given the seat of Angmar's power was always the far North, there is no real reason to assume there are large numbers that have gotten that far south. (Both Bree and the Barrow Downs would be in their way.) One would probably expect remnants to retreat to the hills or towards the Misty Mountains. Slowly clearing small bands of monsters and orcs over all the lands of former Arnor pretty much what the Rangers exist to do, in any case. Actually thinking back, we already dedicated about four to five years to specifically making safe the routes to both Bree and Tharbadof anything that had gotten that far south, in Plan Stay the Course.
Trade terms last five years, which is why IMO it's important to get some kind of good relations in this term, so that we can potentially start trading in the next one. It means we'll be ready for the next one, otherwise it will be a decade before we get to it by which point relations may ossify into something unfriendly. There may be no attractive deals, of course, but you never know until you try. I'd also generally like to keep good diplomatic relations to make them harder to recruit as proxies- trade is a part of that.
II.
The Northmen are an ethnic and cultural group of which includes the men of Dale, the woodsmen of Mirkwood, and most notably the former kingdom of Rhovanion. When Rhovanion fell after the double-hit of the Great Plague and then the incursions of the Wainriders, they fragmented into a number of groups. Some stayed in slavery, some fled north to Dale, a lot went to Gondor including a large number into military service, and one group under a dude called Marhwini who dwelt by the Anduin, and helped Gondor against the Wainriders and later the Witch-King. This last group then moved further north to the upper vales of the Anduin, and became the ancestors of the Rohirrim.
I'm going to copy from the Tolkien Gateway article at this point rather than just repeat it, as you can see it's pretty well referenced and lays things out in more detail:
Article:
Their existence was a bulwark of Gondor, keeping its northern and eastern frontiers from invasion. When they were weakened and at last destroyed, first with the Great Plague, which appeared there in the winter of T.A.1635 and soon spread to Gondor. The Horsemen suffered since the Plague came with a cold winter and they had only low wooden houses and thronged stables, little skilled in the arts of healing and medicine. When the Plague passed more than half of the foil of Rhovanion had perished, and of their horses also. They were slow to recover, but they were undisturbed, since the people further east had been equally afflicted.[4]
When the invasions of the Wainriders began against Gondor, the Northmen suffered the first assaults. Their scattered remains were recruited by King Narmacil II who took a great army north into the plains south of Mirkwood. They were defeated in the Battle of the Plains (T.A.1856) where Narmacil and Marhari were killed. The remnant of his army retreated over the Dagorlad into Ithilien. A few Northmen fled to Gondor, others over the Celduin and were merged with their kin, the folk of Dale under Erebor and others followed Marhwini to the Vales of Anduin and became the ancestors of the Éothéod. Most of the Northmen were reduced to servitude, and all their former lands were occupied by the Wainriders.[4]
In T.A.1899 Marhwini prepared an outbreak against the Wainrider occupation. After helping Calimehtar in fighting them in Dagorlad, desperate poorly-armed outlaws came out of Mirkwood and roused the slaves. They burned many Wainriders dwellings, storehouses and fortified camps of wagons. Most of them perished in the attempt fighting the Wainriders' youths, women and old men. Marhwini retired to his land beside the Anduin, and the Northmen of his race never again returned to their former homes.[4] Afterwards they battled with the enemies alone since Gondor could not help them. Still they joined the forces of Gondor and many comprised the army of the Battle of Fornost (T.A.1975)[5].
After the evil Kingdom of Angmar was defeated by Gondor and the remains of Arnor in T.A.1977, these Northmen moved north and began to call themselves the Éothéod. They were skilled horsebreeders and horsemen. In T.A.2510 they responded to a plea of help from the trapped Gondorian army at the Field of Celebrant. After they helped Gondor win this important victory they were rewarded the province of Calenardhon and became known as the Rohirrim.
A large part of the inspiration for Gondor is the latter Roman Empire, so recruiting other more "barbaric" psuedo-Germanic cultures with strong martial traditions into their armies actually makes a great deal of sense in that light.
The only bit that marks it out as a fantasy is that the Northmen never burnt down Minas Tirith after not being paid on time. :lol
I do not think narrativium-driven, to a degree, LotR world would think kindly of cannibalising the ancestral homes. Resettling them would be another matter, it would be a revival of sorts, but looting the stones is kinda ew.
In any other city there would have been plenty of grumbling for a king's ransom being paid for a ring of all things, and there is some incomprehension on the part of the assimilating women and youths of Eryn Vorn. There is no great celebration at the return of the Ring of Barahir, but there is a sense of quiet victory that the ancient symbol of friendship between Men and Elves is now where it rightfully belongs. The Lossoth otherwise decline trade or assistance, being uninterested in the affairs of the world and continuing their semi-nomadic lifestyle across the northern wastes, only returning each winter to the shores of Forochel.
Tharbad is neutral at best to your overtures, treating your emissaries with a kind of aloof disdain unique to those who think you are saying nothing of substance. You suppose that to them they have been independent for a long time, and you are just making a show of letting them go formally for the sake of appearances. But with Tharbad beyond your remit you are able to focus your patrols of rangers on securing the area around Bree, and run immediately into several problems.
Firstly, the Barrow-Wights are active. While none of them yet approach the city, being only actively mobile during the dark hours, they have made the southern areas so treacherous that you abandon any ambitions of making safe the Old Forest or the edges of Tyrn Gorthad. With the need to keep a careful watch on the Barrow Downs security elsewhere suffers, and marauding orcs make off with half Bree's tithe on the road. There are reluctant suggestions that it may be necessary to garrison Bree after all to strengthen the security of the region. That would require the construction of a military area in Bree, and likely the dispatch of a dedicated military unit from Ost Falasuin to take residence there.
When a new year dawns, however, there is far more interest locally as a massive effort begins to erect walls at the river edge to control the tides and alter the Baranduin's course. Not only will standardising the width of the river free up some extra land on its edges (or conversely subtract it), it will also defend against flooding and allow easier navigation for the expanding fleet. Some of the stone from the effort is repurposed from Lond Daer, the new Ciralya making trips back and forth to ferry the building material. It is not an uncontroversial decision, but at present the fundamental structure of the ancient haven is intact and will be for a few years yet before the reclamation effort graduates from taking rubble to disassembling more intact areas.
After riding out a harsh winter the plan to commission a new trading ship has to be delayed for lack of timber, but the same cannot be said for the addition of dedicated armourers to the city. Flush with iron from Orodsîr more options become available, not least of which is some chestplates for the captains and lieutenants, although expanding it to an entire unit would be expensive. Then the news arrives from Gondor that Minas Ithil has fallen. The Witch-King has sallied out Mordor and overthrown the ancient citadel, and the attempt to reclaim it was thoroughly repulsed. Minas Anor is no longer the tower of the sun, but Minas Tirith, the tower of the guard.
It took Arnor five hundred years to fall under continual pressure from Angmar, and Gondor is far more prosperous. The situation is not urgent, but as the strength of Men diminishes the Enemy grows more powerful. Campaigns against the South Kingdom are inevitable, and they will be grateful for support when that days comes. The Northmen your embassy, as they have only recently thrown off the yoke of the Wainriders and are making the attempt to rebuild Rhovanion.
As if to punctuate the severity of the situation the coldest winter in many years causes a local famine that forces an opening of the granaries and the distribution of food. Orodsîr is hit hard as well, and also take from the storehouses just to survive. The air is heavy with smoke from the fires, and even the Dome of the Palantiri is packed with those trying to remain warm.
It is well known that the Blue Mountains were and are home to dwarves, and Arvedui took shelter in old mines in the northern mountains after the sack of Fornost. While no settlements are so grand as to match the old cities of Belegost or Nogrod that dwelt there in the First Age, there are still some small groups and settlements. It is from them you learn that the capital of the dwarves has been lost to some nameless evil in recent years, and most have gone east to settlements in the Grey Mountains or Erebor.
Servants of darkness are seemingly without fear in these troubled days, and while the North may be spared them for the moment it seems to be only because their attention has turned elsewhere. With new training facilities the men are able to practice formation tactics that improve their effectiveness and cohesion, something that may be needed for the future.
(You can upgrade your doctrine from Men at Arms to Infantry by paying the difference in their price for each unit you have, but you can then only build Infantry.)
After two bad winters in a row, it took some time for your wood stores to recover, and it is two years behind schedule that you commission a second Ciralya. It is just in time for the easily-reclaimed stone from Lond Daer to be exhausted, and from this point forward you would be disassembling only partially ruined sections of the port. In part due to your new ships you can ship significantly more goods, and you get a good offer for food and stone, but a bad one for wood.
The Periannath are of course known to you, and they are somewhat surprised to hear that the Kingdom survived after the fall of Norbury. There is some gentle correction that they prefer to be known as Hobbits, and there is some wonder among them if their vows to the King of Arthedain regarding the upkeep of the Shire remain in force with the voluntary renunciation of the title by Arvedui. In the end they decide that it's all a bunch of nonsense talking about who is called what, and agree that they shall maintain the ancient agreement that founded the Shire. The Hobbits will pay no taxes, but will maintain the roads of the Shire and aid messengers. With one stroke of the pen (these Hobbits are greatly fond of legal documents), the Shire is officially a part of the Dunedain realm again.
Ost Falasuin
Population: 13
Prosperity: Average
Prestige: Provincial Capital
Rule of Law: Strong
Military Strength: Average
Defenses: Average
Administrative Center
5 Small Residential Districts
1 Small Mercantile District
Military District
Armorers
Drill Square
Woodworkers District
Courts
Houses of Healing
Baths
Guard Barracks
Docks
(Free) Spearmen: While lacking any notable combat ability, these blocks of men are willing to stand their ground against the enemy.
--OR--
(10 Gold) Men-at-Arms: These stalwart soldiers give as good as they get, but specialise in defensive fighting that relies on unity and courage to outlast the enemy. [Req. Training Ground]
--OR--
(20 Gold) Infantry: These professional soldiers build upon their individual skill at arms with formations designed to break the enemy with lightning advances and brutal charges. [Req. Drill Square]
--OR--
(40 Gold) Arnorian Infantry: Preferring to engage with both bow and sword, these men sacrifice power in the melee for damage at range and possess unshakeable courage. [Req. Guard Citadel]
--Pick One--
Cavalry: These horsemen are a short, sharp shock, and are willing to take casualties if it means dealing a decisive blow.
--OR--
Skirmishers: While more than willing to charge again and again and remaining in the thick of things, loss in numbers quickly wear down these agile horsemen.
Equipment Doctrine:
Well Equipped (-2 Metal): +10% Damage
Fine Equipment (-5 Metal, 1 Iron/Steel): +20% Damage [Req. Armorers]
Exceptional Equipment (-10 Metal, 1 Steel): +30% Damage [Req. Industrial Smithing]
Ost Falasuin:
Well-Equipped Dunedain Men-at-Arms
Bree:
Local Militias
All in all, that went fairly well. We can't control the weather, sadly, but our stockpiles saw us through the bad winters without too much harm. At the end of the day, bad winters will happen from time to time. This does make me seriously wonder whether we should consider doubling the size of both of the emergency stockpiles, though. It will slow our growth and our ship-building in the short term, but when we know we're fighting a malevolent demon who has a track record of using the weather as a weapon...
From what I understand we can only build our doctrine, going for Spearmen would be a downgrade.
I'd say we need more food, I'd go for a pasture or two, their yields are lesser, but are more resistant to the weather and are a more reliable way of getting food since, it seems, the enemy might be able to control the weather to some extent , one more military district or two, if we can squeeze it and a smithing quarter to get access to Steel.
Sketch suggestion:
[] Pasture (-3 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income, Self Housing)
[] Military District (-10 Gold, Req. 1 Population)
[] Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes)
--[] Smithing Quarter (-5 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Iron -> 2 Steel Conversion)
[] Military District (-10 Gold, Req. 1 Population)
[] Pasture (-3 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income, Self Housing)
We need more troops, obviously both for here and for Bree, not sure how we can encourage Bree to switch miliia for men at arms, but I guess we can train a new unit, send it there and eventually have them train the locals?
Also, is there any advantage to having multiple armorers or drill squares?
In the short term, I should think not unless there's an excessive amount of enlistment going on. Which there kinda isn't, because it's not like it's wartime.
Edit: Shortened quote to relevant text.
Edit 2: Might be able to sell surplus gear, I guess. Gondor might appreciate complete goods over raw iron? -- If they're even interested at all [which they should be, given what just happened.]
*looks in*
*looks at winning plan, looks at Lon Daer, narrows eyes*
Marauding Orcs on the roads? Check. Barrow Wights active? Check.
Northmen population being too low to be interested in going off to some new land that only just fought off a Witch-King invasion ~25 years ago? Check.
Tharbad being unavailable/uninterested in anything and us lacking the resources to trade with them anyway? Check.
One would think that we're in a world where we have been unable to devote resources to sweeping the Old Kingdom of the survivors of Angmar.
And where Sauron moved into Dol Guldur back in TA 1000(a thousand years ago), and stayed there until Gandalf investigated the area in TA 2063, at which point he fled for 400 years to prevent premature discovery.
One where birds and worse can be used as spies and communication.
And people think that those unoccupied spaces would be clean.
*sighs*
and as someone said we shouldnt be closed to immigration if it isnt hillpeople apparently since pop is a very big limiting factor especially if its free.
LOTR =/=RL; unrestricted immigration is NOT a good thing here.
Xenophobia is a survival trait in these here parts; I suggest you look at what happened to Rhudaur.
Or indeed what Sharkú tried to do to the Shire almost a thousand years hence.
When dealing with millenia-old Maiar, paranoia keeps you alive.
A proposal: I'm all for expanding our military to protect Bree, but this will take up our next 2-3 Pops (food production, soldiers, perhaps steel production). In the meantime we do have a fair amount of stone and can import it more easily now. So how about we use the time to build the next ring wall?
To clarify, you're building the upgrade buildings only once. To garrison Bree and actively sweep the area clean (well, bottling the Barrow-Downs, anyway, purging them it way out of your weight class right now), you only need to pay for the military district in Bree and train the soldiers in Ost Falasuin before sending them off. You don't need to repeat the structures for training and armor.
To clarify, you're building the upgrade buildings only once. To garrison Bree and actively sweep the area clean (well, bottling the Barrow-Downs, anyway, purging them it way out of your weight class right now), you only need to pay for the military district in Bree and train the soldiers in Ost Falasuin before sending them off. You don't need to repeat the structures for training and armor.
