Gotcha.
Will redo some math later.
City Building in Middle-Earth
- Thread starter Sayle
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lotr middle-earth
Will redo some math later.
Five Year Plan: Securing our Foundation
Civic Construction
Year 1
->[X] Assign Unassigned Population (1) to Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)
[X] Set Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal)
Year 2
[X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
[X] Stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 3
[X] Small Military District Upgrade: Armourers (-10 Gold)
[X] Stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 4
[X] Small Military District Upgrade: Drill Square (-10 Gold)
[X] Stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 5
->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Pasture (-3 Gold, + 2 Food, +1 Gold)
[X] Stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Diplomacy and Military
Special: [X] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
-[X] Pledge the Snowmen our aid, if they ever find themselves in need.
--[X] Indicate that we'd be open to future trade.
Year 1
[X] Send a missive to Tharbad saying that after their long years on their own, we will respect their decision to leave our protection. But if they ever find themselves in dire need of aid or refuge, we will be here. Investigate future trade.
->[X] The primary focus of the Rangers should now be on making safe the area surrounding Bree, and preventing evil things from reaching there.
Year 2
[X] Task our fleet with recovering masonry from the ruins of Lond Daer. The rubble of our old works will help to build the new.
-[X] Leave any works of great artistry or craft that still endure alone. Leave an innermost ring around the docks intact, if applicable.
Year 3
[X] Send an embassy around the Hithaeglir to the dispossessed Northmen who we have heard live in the Upper Vales of Anduin and in the eaves of the Great Wood. Tell them that our kingdom is fertile but unpeopled for as long as a horse can ride for many days. If any of them would like to come to dwell in friendship with us, we would gladly accept them.
Year 4
[X] Investigate if any of Durin's folk or their kin still dwell in the Ered Luin.
Year 5
[X] Send a few Rangers and kinsmen on an embassy to the timid half-men who are rumoured to live on the edges of Breeland. Try to establish relations.
Shipbuilding
Year 1
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Year 3
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Year 5
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Trade and Treasury
[X] Import 2 Stone (-6 Gold/Turn)
[X] Import 2 Food (-4 Gold/Turn)
[X] Export 1 Hardwood to Mithlond (+6 Gold/Turn)
[X] Bank 3 Gold/Turn in Chieftain's Treasury
Net: -7 Gold/Turn
Notes
Civic Construction
Year 1
->[X] Assign Unassigned Population (1) to Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)
[X] Set Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal)
Year 2
[X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
[X] Stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 3
[X] Small Military District Upgrade: Armourers (-10 Gold)
[X] Stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 4
[X] Small Military District Upgrade: Drill Square (-10 Gold)
[X] Stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 5
->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Pasture (-3 Gold, + 2 Food, +1 Gold)
[X] Stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Diplomacy and Military
Special: [X] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
-[X] Pledge the Snowmen our aid, if they ever find themselves in need.
--[X] Indicate that we'd be open to future trade.
Year 1
[X] Send a missive to Tharbad saying that after their long years on their own, we will respect their decision to leave our protection. But if they ever find themselves in dire need of aid or refuge, we will be here. Investigate future trade.
->[X] The primary focus of the Rangers should now be on making safe the area surrounding Bree, and preventing evil things from reaching there.
Year 2
[X] Task our fleet with recovering masonry from the ruins of Lond Daer. The rubble of our old works will help to build the new.
-[X] Leave any works of great artistry or craft that still endure alone. Leave an innermost ring around the docks intact, if applicable.
Year 3
[X] Send an embassy around the Hithaeglir to the dispossessed Northmen who we have heard live in the Upper Vales of Anduin and in the eaves of the Great Wood. Tell them that our kingdom is fertile but unpeopled for as long as a horse can ride for many days. If any of them would like to come to dwell in friendship with us, we would gladly accept them.
Year 4
[X] Investigate if any of Durin's folk or their kin still dwell in the Ered Luin.
Year 5
[X] Send a few Rangers and kinsmen on an embassy to the timid half-men who are rumoured to live on the edges of Breeland. Try to establish relations.
Shipbuilding
Year 1
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Year 3
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Year 5
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Trade and Treasury
[X] Import 2 Stone (-6 Gold/Turn)
[X] Import 2 Food (-4 Gold/Turn)
[X] Export 1 Hardwood to Mithlond (+6 Gold/Turn)
[X] Bank 3 Gold/Turn in Chieftain's Treasury
Net: -7 Gold/Turn
| Financial | Stone | Wood | Food | Population | Metal | |
| Year 1 | 35 - (3 + 18 + 10) | 4 + 12 | 19 - (0) | 19 + 5 | 15 - (10 + 7.8) | 0 (10.2/13) + 9 | + 3 E.O.T Surplus (13/13) | 13 (0/14 Growth + 4) | 13 - (10 + 2) | 1 + 3 |
| Year 2 | 16 - (10 + ?) | 6 + 12 - ? | 24 - (20) | 4 + 5 + ? | 7.2 - (7.8) | 0 (12.4/13) + 12 | + 3 E.O.T Surplus (13/13) | 13 (4/14 Growth + 4) | 4 - (0) | 4 + 3 |
| Year 3 | 18 - (10 + ?) | 8 + 12 - 2*? | 9 - (0) | 9 + 5 + ? | 11.4 - (10 + 7.8) | 0 (6.6/13) +12 | + 3 E.O.T Surplus (13/13) | 13 (8/14 Growth + 4) | 7 - (0) | 7 + 3 |
| Year 4 | 20 - (10 + ?) | 10 + 12 - 3*? | 14 - (0) | 14 + 5 + ? | 5.4 - (7.8) | 0 (10.6/13) + 12 | + 3 E.O.T Surplus (13/13) | 13 (12/14 Growth + 4) | 10 - (0) | 10 + 3 |
| Year 5 | 22 - (3 + ?) | 19 + 12 - 4*? | 19 - (0) | 19 + 5 + ? | 9.6 - (10 + 7.8) | 0 (4.8/14) + 12 | + 1 E.O.T Surplus (14/14) | 14 (2/15 Growth + 1) | 13 - (0) | 13 + 3 |
| Start Year 6 | 31 Gold - 4*? (Plus 30 Gold C.T.) | 24 + 4*? | 2.8 est. (14/14) | (14/14) (+4 E.O.T. Surplus) | 14 (3/15 Growth) | 16 |
Notes
- I'm putting our unassigned Population towards a Logging Camp first because it stabilises our Wood situation and should allow the construction of a small trade fleet. assuming winters aren't unusually bad. The first two merchant ships can each be assigned to importing more Food and more Stone respectively; which covers the main bases we wanted them for. The third one, if we build it, is just gravy.
- Our next unassigned Population is going towards Pasture because it means we have an even number of each food production building and moves our income from the despicable 19 to the much rounder 20. This pleases my Rain Man like obsessive compulsive nature. Also, it kind of isn't worth building the Smith's Quarter until a couple turns before we build our next military district, because we need 1 Military district per each upgrade building I believe. The modest bonus to Growth this provides and increased food imports next turn should allow for the Smith's Quarter and another Military District.
- Using ships to salvage stone from Lond Daer is something we can do, apparently, and we're doing relatively little construction right now so we have some labour free. Plus our ships essentially have nothing to do until the next five-year trade term starts, so this gives something to do. Right now seems like the ideal time. Even if the amount of Stone we get is relatively modest, it's still a plus.
- Not accounting for salvage, we start Year 6 with 24 Stone, putting us in prime position to undertake major construction over the next five years with increased stone imports in the next five-year period plus whatever we salvage from Lond Daer. We could do the Third Circuit Wall and bank stone towards the fourth, or begin building on the other side of the river.
- The diplomatic options are largely just seeing if anything comes up. The most notable one is with the Northmen; I figure if we even get 1-2 Population of immigrants who set up a little allied kingdom, it's a net win in the long run. Having our own equivalent of the Rohirrim who can act as a buffer state would be no bad thing. But if it doesn't work, it's no huge loss. They've moved around a fair bit within recent memory, so moving again for greener pastures shouldn't be an impossible sell to at least some of them.
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Updating in view of GM comments.
PLAN SNOWBALL v2
GENERAL
[X] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
[X] Cavalry: These horsemen are a short, sharp shock, and are willing to take casualties if it means dealing a decisive blow.
[X] Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal): +1 Attack/Defense
[X] Make effort to practice forestry management, and to replant trees where possible.
[X]Attempt to reconstitute a service of couriers/messengers to carry the Chieftain's messages and otherwise keep the cities connected.
[X]Dispatch party to scout Caras Nurnelen ruins
DIPLOMACY
[X]Rotate a section of the military to Bree regularly to show the flag and to help sweep the roads between Bree and Ost.
[X]Trade Hardwood to Mithlond for five years, as a favor to a treasured ally.
[X]Request advice from Mithlond on forestry management.
[X]And from Imladris on
[X]Send emissaries to the Shire; it's right on the road to Bree, so no point neglecting it, and the Shire-hobbits did swear allegiance to the kings of Arnor. Besides, the halflings DID send a company of archers to the Battle of Fornost.
TRADE CONTRACT
[X] Import 2 Food (Market Price): -4 gold/turn
[X] Import 2 Stone (Market Price): -6 gold/turn
[X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price+1) [Mithlond]: +6 gold/turn
-4 gold/turn
ACTION
YEAR 1
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[X] Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food)<-[Unemployed unit of Population goes here]
YEAR 2
----[X] Armorers (-10 Gold, Increase Quality Available) [Req. Iron/Steel]
[X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
YEAR 3 [+1 POP!]
----[X] Drill Square (-10 Gold, Better Units)
[X] Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)[New Pop here]
YEAR 4
[X] Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
[X] Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes)
--[X] Smithing Quarter (-5 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Iron -> 2 Steel Conversion)
YEAR 5[+1 POP!]
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[X] Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes)[New Pop here]
CASHFLOW said:
REASON
Replaced Pastures with Fishing, to get +3 Food without weather exposure.
Replaced Docks with Residential Quarters to accommodate the new populations
Added a General Action to explore Caras Nurnelen Ruins.
This plan gets you an increase of +2 Population, 2 new Merchant ships, ~20% increase in income, 25% more Wood production, and a vastly more capable military.
Votes please, so we can get an update sometime this week.
At least three plans I can count to choose from.
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- Location
- Reno Nv
[X]PLAN SNOWBALL v2
There a vote.
There a vote.
- Location
- Central Europe
Edit: Vote for Plan Snowball v3 it is almost identical
New version with a quarry instead of a new mercantile district.
Trade:
[] Import 2 Food (Market Price): -4 gold/turn
[] Import 2 Stone (Market Price): -6 gold/turn
[] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price+1) [Mithlond]: +6 gold/turn
-4 gold/turn to Income. We need Stone and Food to grow our city. I would rather save some Metal and Wood over the next 5 years.
Other:
[] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
[] Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal): +10% Damage
[] Make effort to practice forestry management, and to replant trees where possible.
[] Attempt to reconstitute a service of couriers/messengers to carry the Chieftain's messages and otherwise keep the cities connected.
[] Rotate a section of the military to Bree regularly to show the flag and to help sweep the roads between Bree and Ost.
[] Request advice from Mithlond on forestry management. And from Imladris on patrolling through the wilderness; we're going to have to rebuild instituional knowledge lost with the fall of Fornost.
[] Send emissaries to the Shire; it's right on the road to Bree, so no point neglecting it, and the Shire-hobbits did swear allegiance to the kings of Arnor. Besides, the halflings DID send a company of archers to the Battle of Fornost.
I copied these well formulated ideas from @uju32 and only removed the cavalry decision, since that choice can wait until we actually have cavalry.
@Sayle gave us a new 13th POP, so I am unsure if we are at [12/13 Stored] or at [13/13 Stored], but I am going to assume the former and run with it.
Income: 15 Gold
Treasury: 20 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +3(3 Growth) (0/14 Growth) [12/13 Stored] <- Formula for growth: [Rounddown(Foodsurplus * 1.5) - open storage capacity = Growth] So, 6+ Food (Farm) leads to 8 Growth and 5+ (Pasture) leads to 6 Growth.
Wood: 15 [12/13 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 19 (+5)
Metal: 1 (+3)
--Iron: 4 (+1)
Treasury: 20 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +3(3 Growth) (0/14 Growth) [12/13 Stored] <- Formula for growth: [Rounddown(Foodsurplus * 1.5) - open storage capacity = Growth] So, 6+ Food (Farm) leads to 8 Growth and 5+ (Pasture) leads to 6 Growth.
Wood: 15 [12/13 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 19 (+5)
Metal: 1 (+3)
--Iron: 4 (+1)
[ ] Farm (-3 Gold, +3 Food, Self Housing) <--[POP 13] This gives us +6 Foodsurplus instead of the +5 a Pasture would give us. Expan Housing to 14.
----[ ] Drill Square (-10 Gold, Better Units)
(-13 Gold, -6.5 Wood) <- I assume POP/2 loss of Wood each year.
Income: 15 Gold
Treasury: 22 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +6(9 Growth) (8/14 Growth) [13/13 Stored] <- +4(6 Growth) to finish up POP 14, +1 to Storage and +1(1 Growth) to POP 15
Wood: ~16.5 [13/13 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 24 (+5)
Metal: 4 (+3)
--Iron: 5 (+1)
Treasury: 22 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +6(9 Growth) (8/14 Growth) [13/13 Stored] <- +4(6 Growth) to finish up POP 14, +1 to Storage and +1(1 Growth) to POP 15
Wood: ~16.5 [13/13 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 24 (+5)
Metal: 4 (+3)
--Iron: 5 (+1)
[ ] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
--[ ] Smithing Quarter (-5 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Iron -> 2 Steel Conversion) Convert Mercantile District
(-10 Gold, -20 Stone, -7 Wood)
Income: 14 Gold
Treasury: 21 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +5(7 Growth) (1/15 Growth) [14/14 Stored]
Wood: ~17.5 [14/14 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 9 (+5)
Metal: 7 (+3)
--Iron: 4 (-1)
--Steel: 2 (+2)
Treasury: 21 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +5(7 Growth) (1/15 Growth) [14/14 Stored]
Wood: ~17.5 [14/14 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 9 (+5)
Metal: 7 (+3)
--Iron: 4 (-1)
--Steel: 2 (+2)
[ ] Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood) <--[POP 14]
----[ ] Armorers (-10 Gold, Increase Quality Available) [Req. Iron/Steel]
[] Equipment Doctrine: Fine Equipment (-5 Metal): +20% Damage [Req. Armorers]
(-13 Gold, -5 Metal, -7 Wood)
Income: 14 Gold
Treasury: 17 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +5(7 Growth) (8/15 Growth) [14/14 Stored]
Wood: ~22.5 [14/14 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 14 (+5)
Metal: 5 (+3)
--Iron: 3 (+1)
--Steel: 4 (+2)
Treasury: 17 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +5(7 Growth) (8/15 Growth) [14/14 Stored]
Wood: ~22.5 [14/14 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 14 (+5)
Metal: 5 (+3)
--Iron: 3 (+1)
--Steel: 4 (+2)
[] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[] Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing) Expand Housing to 16
(-15 Gold, -2 Stone, -17.5 Wood)
Income: 14 Gold
Treasury: 21 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +4(5 Growth) (0/16 Growth) [14/15 Stored]
Wood: ~16 [15/15 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 17 (+5)
Metal: 8 (+3)
--Iron: 2 (-1)
--Steel: 6 (+2)
Treasury: 21 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +4(5 Growth) (0/16 Growth) [14/15 Stored]
Wood: ~16 [15/15 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 17 (+5)
Metal: 8 (+3)
--Iron: 2 (-1)
--Steel: 6 (+2)
[] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[ ] Quarry (-3 Gold, +2 Stone) <--[POP 15]
(-13 Gold, -17.5 Wood)
Income: 14 Gold
Treasury: 21 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +2(3 Growth) (5/16 Growth) [15/15 Stored]
Wood: ~10.5 [15/15 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1 (+1)
Stone: 24 (+5)
Metal: 11 (+3)
--Iron: 1 (-1)
--Steel: 8 (+2)
Treasury: 21 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +2(3 Growth) (5/16 Growth) [15/15 Stored]
Wood: ~10.5 [15/15 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1 (+1)
Stone: 24 (+5)
Metal: 11 (+3)
--Iron: 1 (-1)
--Steel: 8 (+2)
Reasons:
This Plan gives us expanded trading capacities, in the form of two brand new merchant ships, before the next round of trade deals. It also gives us Steel as a new trade good just in time to use or sell next turn. By going for Farm>Pasture in Year 1 we manage to grow POP 14 & 15 in this turn. We also finally "Tame the Baranduin". With this plan we only grab one tier of military upgrades (Drill Square & Armorers -> Fine Equipment). In year 5 I add a new Stone quarry for our city. Currently we pay 6 gold per year for 2 Stone. With this new quarry we will be able to expand our walls and city much faster & cheaper.
The second tier (Guard Citadel & Industrial Smithing -> Exceptional Equipment), as well as further stone walls and the expansion to the eastern shore I will leave for next turn/the future.
[X] Plan: Ships, Steel and Stone
Trade:
[X] Import 2 Food (Market Price)
[X] Import 2 Stone (Market Price)
[X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price+1) [Mithlond]
Other:
[X] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
[X] Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal): +10% Damage
[X] Make effort to practice forestry management, and to replant trees where possible.
[X] Attempt to reconstitute a service of couriers/messengers to carry the Chieftain's messages and otherwise keep the cities connected.
[X] Rotate a section of the military to Bree regularly to show the flag and to help sweep the roads between Bree and Ost.
[X] Request advice from Mithlond on forestry management. And from Imladris on patrolling through the wilderness; we're going to have to rebuild instituional knowledge lost with the fall of Fornost.
[X] Send emissaries to the Shire; it's right on the road to Bree, so no point neglecting it, and the Shire-hobbits did swear allegiance to the kings of Arnor. Besides, the halflings DID send a company of archers to the Battle of Fornost.
Year 1:
[X] Farm (-3 Gold, +3 Food, Self Housing)
----[X] Drill Square (-10 Gold, Better Units)
Year 2:
[X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
--[X] Smithing Quarter (-5 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Iron -> 2 Steel Conversion)
Year 3:
[X] Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)
----[X] Armorers (-10 Gold, Increase Quality Available) [Req. Iron/Steel]
[X] Equipment Doctrine: Fine Equipment (-5 Metal): +20% Damage [Req. Armorers]
Year 4:
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[X] Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)
Year 5:
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[X] Quarry (-3 Gold, +2 Stone)
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No looting stone.
Both because you are cannibalizing a possibly valuable city to shortterm gain, and because it's something that's actively avoided in the Legendarium.
Note that Annumminas is still basically intact, and remained that way until Elessar reunified the kingdoms and rehabbed it.
The only cities I remember Order destroying are considered too unclean to loot.
Dol Guldur and Saruman's Isengard being notable among them.
- Location
- Central Europe
I wanna see the math that allows you to spend 35 Gold in one turn. Are you opening the Chieftain's Treasury?
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
We aren't going to be able to reoccupy them for a century or more though, and the corpses of Arnor, of Arthedain and Cardolan and Rhudaur, could prove a critical factor in the growth and revitalization of Arnor-Made-Anew right now. And we can always replace the looted stone once we're able to occupy those cities.
The normal Treasury has 35 gold, remember?
And I have a net cashflow of +15 gold/turn, which gives me a total cash inflow of +75 gold.
Add the normal Treasury, and I have 110 gold to work with this turn.
- Location
- Central Europe
There is your mistake you have 95 gold to work with:
The initial Treasury (35) + 4x Income (~15). You only get new income for the years 2-5.
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We didn't loot Annuminas to build Fornost.
Annuminas was basically abandoned intact because there weren't enough people to remain occupying it in comfort.
The Dunedain didn't loot Fornost after the fall of Arnor. Even the men of Bree had more respect than to loot Fornost for stone.
Lon Daer is a Numenorean city. Old Numenor, from before the Island fell.
Major shipyard, abandoned when they ran short of wood, and located in a strategic position.
Looting a Numenorean city for stone feels very close to blasphemy.
Annuminas is an ancient capital of great cultural significance. Lond Daer was a port and military staging post which has been uninhabited for centuries or possibly longer. It's not the same deal.
Keep in mind that this is one of our own ancient cities; we aren't stealing. There's no reason we can't do it, and we need walls now. The main infrastructure at Lond Daer like the docks and remnants of inner walls will be too hard to move to be economical anyway; so there will still be a foundation for a small colony should we decide to set one up there. The growth and security this buys us right now will probably do more to secure future reclamation of Lond Daer than any amount of masonry left sitting there will do.
But if we're critiquing plans, here are the big things which stick out at me in yours (haven't looked into the accounting yet):
We need Iron/Steel for this to be worthwhile. Also, pretty sure you can't do it without another Military District, which requires Population.
There won't be a population uptick in that turn, it will be the next one. (The Fishing you're setting up will only provide income for the start of Year 2, because incomes are always from the previous year; I confused over this too at one point.) Also again, don't believe we can build a Drill Square without another Military District.
This needs Population.
Again, I think this will need a Military District, on top of one for the "tier" below it.
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Our Tax income adds + 1 gold/turn from Year 3, when we hit Population 14.
And I deliberately only spent 96 gold.
My accounts are fine.
- Location
- Central Europe
15 + 10 + 3 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 3 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 10 + 20 + 5
= 111
We have Iron OR Steel. We have Iron.
And we already have an Armory from last turn; we're upgrading it.
You're wrong.Here's the math.
I believe that's sufficient to make my case.
We already built a Training Ground last turn; it's on the buildings list. We're upgrading that.
Deliberately left empty.
Upgrade of Drill Square.
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Arggh. I forgot the ring.
Ah well; guess I'll drop the Citadel this turn.
Thanks.
Oh forgot we don't need to process Iron lol
The accounting you've posted is honestly quite hard to parse and seems a bit overcomplicated for what is not a hugely complex system. Let me break this down more simply:
Year 1
Food Surplus: +1 Food Surplus (Domestic Production) + 2 Food Surplus (Trade) = +3 Food Surplus
Growth: + 4
Population: (4/14 Growth, 14/14 Stored)
Year 2
Food Surplus: +4 Food Surplus (Domestic Production) + 2 Food Surplus (Trade) = +6 Food Surplus
Growth: + 9
Population: (13/14 Growth, 14/14 Stored)
So we don't quite fill up our Growth in the end of Year 2, which is what's needed for an increase in the start of Year 3.
This is actually the most optimistic accounting possible since I'm assuming our food stocks are full and I'm pretty sure they aren't. I actually need to check this with @Sayle for bookkeeping purposes.
Okay well cool, but that's basically redundant then. Do it if you want I guess.
No, you need to build a Military District and assign population to it to increase Military Capacity before you can then build the next rank of training and equipment add-on buildings; it's a tiered system. This is how it worked before and I don't believe that component has changed, the main change is that Living Quarters have been rolled into standard Military Districts, plus we now have the Units system. At least I believe so.
@Sayle, is this the case?
Alayne
The Reader
- Location
- Home of the Vikings
Five Year Plan: Securing our Foundation
Civic Construction
Year 1
->[X] Assign Unassigned Population (1) to Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)
[X] Set Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal)
Year 2
[X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
Year 3
[X] Assign labour that would have gone towards construction to stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 4
[X] Assign labour that would have gone towards construction to stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 5
->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Pasture (-3 Gold, + 2 Food, +1 Gold)
[X] Assign labour that would have gone towards construction to stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Diplomacy and Military
Special: [X] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
-[X] Pledge the Snowmen our aid, if they ever find themselves in need.
--[X] Indicate that we'd be open to future trade.
Year 1
[X] Send a missive to Tharbad saying that after their long years on their own, we will respect their decision to leave our protection. But if they ever find themselves in dire need of aid or refuge, we will be here. Investigate future trade.
->[X] The primary focus of the Rangers should now be on making safe the area surrounding Bree, and preventing evil things from reaching there.
Year 2
[X] Task our fleet with recovering masonry from the ruins of Lond Daer. The ruins of our old works will help to build the new.
Year 3
[X] Send an embassy around the Hithaeglir to the dispossessed Northmen who we have heard live in the Upper Vales of Anduin and in the eaves of the Great Wood. Tell them that our kingdom is fertile but unpeopled for as long as a horse can ride for many days. If any of them would like to come to dwell in friendship with us, we would gladly accept them.
Year 4
[X] Investigate if any of Durin's folk or their kin still dwell in the Ered Luin.
Year 5
[X] Send a few Rangers and kinsmen on an embassy to the timid half-men who are rumoured to live on the edges of Breeland. Try to establish relations.
Shipbuilding
Year 1
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Year 3
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Year 5
[X] Ciryarámar (Sailing Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Trade and Treasury
[X] Import 2 Stone (-6 Gold/Turn)
[X] Import 2 Food (-4 Gold/Turn)
[X] Export 1 Hardwood to Mithlond (+6 Gold/Turn)
[X] Bank 3 Gold/Turn in Chieftain's Treasury
Net: -7 Gold/Turn
Civic Construction
Year 1
->[X] Assign Unassigned Population (1) to Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)
[X] Set Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal)
Year 2
[X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
Year 3
[X] Assign labour that would have gone towards construction to stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 4
[X] Assign labour that would have gone towards construction to stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Year 5
->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Pasture (-3 Gold, + 2 Food, +1 Gold)
[X] Assign labour that would have gone towards construction to stone salvage in Lond Daer. (-? Gold)
Diplomacy and Military
Special: [X] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
-[X] Pledge the Snowmen our aid, if they ever find themselves in need.
--[X] Indicate that we'd be open to future trade.
Year 1
[X] Send a missive to Tharbad saying that after their long years on their own, we will respect their decision to leave our protection. But if they ever find themselves in dire need of aid or refuge, we will be here. Investigate future trade.
->[X] The primary focus of the Rangers should now be on making safe the area surrounding Bree, and preventing evil things from reaching there.
Year 2
[X] Task our fleet with recovering masonry from the ruins of Lond Daer. The ruins of our old works will help to build the new.
Year 3
[X] Send an embassy around the Hithaeglir to the dispossessed Northmen who we have heard live in the Upper Vales of Anduin and in the eaves of the Great Wood. Tell them that our kingdom is fertile but unpeopled for as long as a horse can ride for many days. If any of them would like to come to dwell in friendship with us, we would gladly accept them.
Year 4
[X] Investigate if any of Durin's folk or their kin still dwell in the Ered Luin.
Year 5
[X] Send a few Rangers and kinsmen on an embassy to the timid half-men who are rumoured to live on the edges of Breeland. Try to establish relations.
Shipbuilding
Year 1
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Year 3
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Year 5
[X] Ciryarámar (Sailing Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
Trade and Treasury
[X] Import 2 Stone (-6 Gold/Turn)
[X] Import 2 Food (-4 Gold/Turn)
[X] Export 1 Hardwood to Mithlond (+6 Gold/Turn)
[X] Bank 3 Gold/Turn in Chieftain's Treasury
Net: -7 Gold/Turn
- Location
- Central Europe
Maybe we should try to fuse our plans, they are very similar. Main differences are build order and Mercantile district vs Stone quarry.
Here are my thoughts:
I think Quarry > Mercantile because the former frees up -6 gold/year for Stone imports.
In terms of build order I think building the smithing quarter earlier gives us more Steel at the beginning of next turn. It really isn't much of an issue, but I would build it before the Armorers. Especially since the Upgrade from Armorer needs 5 Metal which after the Ring (-10) and first upgrade (-2) we will only have by Year 3.
Doesn't the production building already produce in the year in which it was build? So it should be:
Year 1
Food Surplus: +4 Food Surplus (Domestic Production) + 2 Food Surplus (Trade) = +6 Food Surplus
Growth: + 9
Population: (9/14 Growth, 14/14 Stored)
@Sayle I would like some clarification on this issue.
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The men of Bree didn't loot Fornost for building materials, despite it's being ~ a hundred miles or so away.
Not to mention that you underestimate the value of Lon Daer, which was Numenorean built at the height of the power of the Edain.
It would be like suggesting looting Orthanc for the stone.
This isn't a case where you are short of stone.
It's a matter of not wanting to pay for it.
From the building options for TA 1990-1995
Only the Living Quarters requires population.
You should remember; the plan that built the Military Districts with Armories and Training Grounds were yours.
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...ng-in-middle-earth.37871/page-27#post-8428248
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No, it doesn't.
Incomes for all resources are always at the start of the year coming from the previous year's production. I found this out back when I was checking things for Plan Outward Growth. @Sayle broke it down rather helpfully:
This is something I've discussed at some length with @Sayle.
The Armorury and Training Grounds in Plan Stay the Course could be built becase we'd already invested a point of population into our Small Military District the previous turn; it was effectively Living Quarters. But we couldn't build an additional Armoury or Training Grounds in that plan to upgrade to the next tier, as I'd originally wanted to, because we'd have had to invest another point of Population into a Small Military District/Living Quarters. (That whole thing being slightly counter-intuitive is part of what prompted the change to the newer cooler system.) I had to remove them from the plan. To quote directly:
I don't believe this has changed. It also makes the most sense for it not to have done, honestly, because otherwise we could go through all the upgrades within one five year plan.
1)You have a point about the Quarry.
I was thinking in terms of having more gold floating around in the event of food/wood shortages, but we can simply save money that way.
Gimme a moment to do the math.
2) Smithing Quarter isn't supposed to be operational until next turn; when we build it doesn't matter.
OTOH, we have no way of predicting when our military goes into combat; the quicker they have the Armory upgrades, the better their chances of success. Especially since we will have them running patrols on the road to Bree.
And no, the Upgrade from Armorer does not require Metal; it will probably require Iron or Steel per unit.
And we have Iron.
- Location
- Central Europe
Let me break it down for you:
We build a Quarry then at the beginning of next year we get +2 Stone. Yes? So, if we build a Farm then at the beginning of next year our Population will have gained growth from this production building.
Year 1 START looks like this:
Food Surplus: +1 Food Surplus (Domestic Production) = +1 Food Surplus
Growth: + 4
Population: (0/14 Growth, 14/14 Stored)
Year 2 START
Food Surplus: +4 Food Surplus (Domestic Production) + 2 Food Surplus (Trade) = +6 Food Surplus
Growth: + 9
Population: (9/14 Growth, 14/14 Stored)
So by
Year 3 START
We will have grown a new POP.
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