City Building in Middle-Earth

Okay so I think I nailed down what happened.

At the end of the 1986th year of the Third Age, the last refugees from the Old Kingdom arrived:
The end of TA 1986 is interesting for multiple reasons: the winter is more of a prolonged autumn than anything else, and snow never even touches the ground; the city expands to fill its housing capacity; and settlers from old Arthedain come down-river. Unexpectedly it was the winters of TA 1984 and 1985 that drove them to this, the privation and deaths that resulted from two successive winters of such harshness diminished their communities and made life challenging afterwards. Eventually they decided to take their chances with the new start at the mouth of the Brandywine, and made their way down to the mouth of the river over a challenging month.

This raises interesting questions, because not only does the city not have room for them unless another area is cleared for farming, but the abundance of potential workers raises some interesting possibilities. While you could fill up the city to capacity, even the only sparsely used mercantile district you constructed, you could also encourage them to move up one of the smaller tributaries of the Baranduin and towards the Blue Mountains, where they could quarry and open mines with plentiful resources.

[ ] Do not settle.
[ ] Send two population to settle the Blue Mountains (-14 Gold, +3 Stone, Pasture/Quarry/Housing)
[ ] Send three population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing)
--[ ] Empty one of the logging camps.
--[ ] Empty the pasture.
--[ ] Empty the mercantile district.
From the vote, it seems like they numbered Population (2).

At that point we had a Population of 7 living in Ost Falasuin:
Ost Falasuin
Population:
7
Prosperity: Poor/Average
Prestige: Provincial Town
Rule of Law: Strong
Military Strength: Weak/Average
Defenses: Minimal

Put together, this means we had a total Population of 9 at the end of TA 1986.

However if we look at this post where Sayle amended our Population just after the TA 1990 update:
You had 8 population, then you sent three away, then two grew back. So you should be at 7 population. I was just working off a population number that didn't include your immigrants. With that in mind, I've added four gold to your total and your docks are now active.

You'll have to give me a few hours to make the shipbuilding options, though.

@Sayle was working with a total figure of 8 Population including the immigrants. This means that with the three going away and two growing back, we would be at 7; whereas with a figure of 9 Population we would be at 8.

This doesn't seem to have travelled downward into any of the districts being unmanned- our districts appear to have functioned in all respects as if we had 8 Population after. We know this since we had two Small Mercantile Districts, Docks, a Farm, Fishing, Pasture, and two Logging Camps in TA 1990, all of which were manned and running, all of which require Population (1). The Small Mercantile Districts both being active is reflected in our income at the end of TA 1990 as well.

So it basically seems to be a small error in only the total Population figure then which got carried forward: our Population should be one higher than it is. This is actually an error in our favour, as well, our Growth has been consistently higher than it should have been for about a decade at this point, because there's been Population (1) who we've been getting labour from but haven't been feeding. Over the decade this actually amounts to a little over 15 Growth; slightly more than a population uptick's worth.
 
@Sayle Is this correct then?
We currently have 13 Population, of whom 12 are placed as follows:
1 Small Mercantile District
1 Military District -> Rangers?
1 Woodworkers District
1 Docks
2 Farms
2 Fishing boats
1 Pasture
3 Logging camps
 
This should then be the current situation:
Income:
19 Gold
Treasury: 35 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +1(0 Growth) (0/14 Growth) [12/13 Stored]
Wood: 15 [12/13 Stored]
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 19
Metal: 13
--Iron: 4

Also, @Sayle does Orodsir now produce +1 Iron or was finding these 4 Iron a one time event?
 
The 1 military district gives you men-at-arms. Other than that, looks correct to me.

Since I forgot before, I'd just like to take a minute to say that I think the new Unit system for our military is really cool.

It makes them all feel kind of unique and like they have their own character despite being fairly mechanically lightweight, especially with the small numbers. I can imagine that the fully mustered Army of Dale, say, might only be in the ballpark of five to seven units, or perhaps less. This makes each one feel characterful; I expect we'll end up naming them. If there are any good artists among us we could come up with little banners for each unit as well.

On a side note, are the Skirmishers basically like early Norman knights? Making lots of successive charges where they'd throw spears? It's sort of how I'd imagined them, but the description is also consistent with something a bit lighter.
 
i get more of a nomad vibe from skrimishers description rather than pseudo knightly one.
 
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i get more of a nomad vibe from skrimishers description rather than pseudo knightly one.

It was the mention of successive charges and remaining in the thick of things that made me think of Norman milites.

Norman milites were charge-oriented, but they weren't quite the full on shock charges of later years. Instead they'd right up very close and thrust overarm with their lances or very often throw them, before retreating a bit and then repeating the procedure. (Notably at Hastings.) So you'd see a bunch of successive charges to break up enemy formations. Sometimes the enemy would believe the feigned retreats were genuine, try to follow, and then get cut down. Of course they were a transitional form to a more shock-oriented kind of heavy cavalry, and did perform shock charges sometimes as well, so it's quite possible that our skirmishers are a bit lighter in array or tactics.











On a side note, I wonder what we'll need to do to unlock archers. Dúnedain longbowmen generally kick ass, and the (canon) Rangers of the North imply this tradition survived into the days of Arthedain. I imagined a lot of our master archers are in the Rangers currently.
 
Norman milites were charge-oriented, but they weren't quite the full on shock charges of later years. Instead they'd right up very close and thrust overarm with their lances or very often throw them, before retreating a bit and then repeating the procedure. (Notably at Hastings.) So you'd see a bunch of successive charges to break up enemy formations. Sometimes the enemy would believe the feigned retreats were genuine, try to follow, and then get cut down. Of course they were a transitional form to a more shock-oriented kind of heavy cavalry, and did perform shock charges sometimes as well, so it's quite possible that our skirmishers are a bit lighter in array or tactics.
Hmm.
That sounds a lot like what I recall hearing about the Mongols, or the other medium cavalry fighters of the Asian steppes.
Like maybe the later-era Persian cavalry.
 
Hmm.
That sounds a lot like what I recall hearing about the Mongols, or the other medium cavalry fighters of the Asian steppes.
Like maybe the later-era Persian cavalry.

I mean if we go through the horsemen route, we may get horse archers. Thoes things are very dely in an open field, but suck at close range.
 
Think of the cavalry as the heavy lance option - a heavy initial shock, then they disengage for quite a while to rearm with new lances and/or reform, then go again. The skirmishers are more an initial strike with javelins or short lances, followed by a lot of charge-throughs with melee weapons and getting into the thick of things.

Also, @Sayle does Orodsir now produce +1 Iron or was finding these 4 Iron a one time event?

You're producing one iron a turn.
 
@Sayle will the trading capacity boost from a merchant ship affect our for existing deals? Or, does it only become a factor in the next round of trade agreements in 5 years?
 
Plan: Growth, Ships & Steel
Vote for Plan Snowball v3 it is almost identical

Trade:

[] Import 2 Food (Market Price): -4 gold/turn
[] Import 2 Stone (Market Price): -6 gold/turn
[] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price+1) [Mithlond]: +6 gold/turn

-4 gold/turn to Income. We need Stone and Food to grow our city. I would rather save some Metal and Wood over the next 5 years.

Other:

[] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
[] Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal): +10% Damage
[] Make effort to practice forestry management, and to replant trees where possible.
[] Attempt to reconstitute a service of couriers/messengers to carry the Chieftain's messages and otherwise keep the cities connected.
[] Rotate a section of the military to Bree regularly to show the flag and to help sweep the roads between Bree and Ost.
[] Request advice from Mithlond on forestry management. And from Imladris on patrolling through the wilderness; we're going to have to rebuild instituional knowledge lost with the fall of Fornost.
[] Send emissaries to the Shire; it's right on the road to Bree, so no point neglecting it, and the Shire-hobbits did swear allegiance to the kings of Arnor. Besides, the halflings DID send a company of archers to the Battle of Fornost.

I copied these well formulated ideas from @uju32 and only removed the cavalry decision, since that choice can wait until we actually have cavalry.
@Sayle gave us a new 13th POP, so I am unsure if we are at [12/13 Stored] or at [13/13 Stored], but I am going to assume the former and run with it.


Income: 15 Gold
Treasury: 20 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +3(3 Growth) (0/14 Growth) [12/13 Stored] <- Formula for growth: [Rounddown(Foodsurplus * 1.5) - open storage capacity = Growth] So, 6+ Food (Farm) leads to 8 Growth and 5+ (Pasture) leads to 6 Growth.
Wood: 15 [12/13 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 19 (+5)
Metal: 1 (+3)
--Iron: 4 (+1)
Year 1:
[ ] Farm (-3 Gold, +3 Food, Self Housing) <--[POP 13] This gives us +6 Foodsurplus instead of the +5 a Pasture would give us. Expan Housing to 14.
----[ ] Drill Square (-10 Gold, Better Units)
(-13 Gold, -6.5 Wood) <- I assume POP/2 loss of Wood each year.

Income: 15 Gold
Treasury: 22 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +6(9 Growth) (8/14 Growth) [13/13 Stored] <- +4(6 Growth) to finish up POP 14, +1 to Storage and +1(1 Growth) to POP 15
Wood: ~16.5 [13/13 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 24 (+5)
Metal: 4 (+3)
--Iron: 5 (+1)
Year 2:
[ ] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
--[ ] Smithing Quarter (-5 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Iron -> 2 Steel Conversion) Convert Mercantile District
(-10 Gold, -20 Stone, -7 Wood)
Income: 14 Gold
Treasury: 21 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +5(7 Growth) (1/15 Growth) [14/14 Stored]
Wood: ~17.5 [14/14 Stored] (+9)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 9 (+5)
Metal: 7 (+3)
--Iron: 4 (-1)
--Steel: 2 (+2)
Year 3:
[ ] Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood) <--[POP 14]
----[ ] Armorers (-10 Gold, Increase Quality Available) [Req. Iron/Steel]
[] Equipment Doctrine: Fine Equipment (-5 Metal): +20% Damage [Req. Armorers]
(-13 Gold, -5 Metal, -7 Wood)

Income: 14 Gold
Treasury: 17 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +5(7 Growth) (8/15 Growth) [14/14 Stored]
Wood: ~22.5 [14/14 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 14 (+5)
Metal: 5 (+3)
--Iron: 3 (+1)
--Steel: 4 (+2)
Year 4:
[] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[] Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing) Expand Housing to 16
(-15 Gold, -2 Stone, -17.5 Wood)

Income: 14 Gold
Treasury: 21 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +4(5 Growth) (0/16 Growth) [14/15 Stored]
Wood: ~16 [15/15 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 17 (+5)
Metal: 8 (+3)
--Iron: 2 (-1)
--Steel: 6 (+2)
Year 5:
[] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[] Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes) <--[POP 15]
(-15 Gold, ,-2 Stone, -17.5 Wood)

Income: 16 Gold
Treasury: 22 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +2(3 Growth) (5/16 Growth) [15/15 Stored]
Wood: ~10.5 [15/15 Stored] (+12)
--Lebethron: 0
--Hardwood: 1 (+1)
Stone: 20 (+3)
Metal: 11 (+3)
--Iron: 1 (-1)
--Steel: 8 (+2)

Reasons:

This Plan gives us expanded trading capacities, in the form of two brand new merchant ships, before the next round of trade deals. It also gives us Steel as a new trade good just in time to use or sell next turn. By going for Farm>Pasture in Year 1 we manage to grow POP 14 & 15 in this turn. We also finally "Tame the Baranduin". With this plan we only grab one tier of military upgrades (Drill Square & Armorers -> Fine Equipment). The second tier (Guard Citadel & Industrial Smithing -> Exceptional Equipment), as well as further stone walls and the expansion to the eastern shore I will leave for next turn/the future.

Vote:
Trade:

[X] Import 2 Food (Market Price)
[X] Import 2 Stone (Market Price)
[X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price+1) [Mithlond]

Other:
[X] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
[X] Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal): +10% Damage
[X] Make effort to practice forestry management, and to replant trees where possible.
[X] Attempt to reconstitute a service of couriers/messengers to carry the Chieftain's messages and otherwise keep the cities connected.
[X] Rotate a section of the military to Bree regularly to show the flag and to help sweep the roads between Bree and Ost.
[X] Request advice from Mithlond on forestry management. And from Imladris on patrolling through the wilderness; we're going to have to rebuild instituional knowledge lost with the fall of Fornost.
[X] Send emissaries to the Shire; it's right on the road to Bree, so no point neglecting it, and the Shire-hobbits did swear allegiance to the kings of Arnor. Besides, the halflings DID send a company of archers to the Battle of Fornost.

Year 1:
[X] Farm (-3 Gold, +3 Food, Self Housing)
----[X] Drill Square (-10 Gold, Better Units)

Year 2:
[X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
--[X] Smithing Quarter (-5 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Iron -> 2 Steel Conversion)

Year 3:
[X] Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)
----[X] Armorers (-10 Gold, Increase Quality Available) [Req. Iron/Steel]
[X] Equipment Doctrine: Fine Equipment (-5 Metal): +20% Damage [Req. Armorers]

Year 4:
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[X] Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Housing)

Year 5:
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[X] Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes)
 
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Reposting my plan.


PLAN SNOWBALL
GENERAL
[X] Ransom the Ring of Barahir (-15 Gold, -10 Metal)
[X] Cavalry: These horsemen are a short, sharp shock, and are willing to take casualties if it means dealing a decisive blow.
[X] Equipment Doctrine: Well Equipped (-2 Metal): +1 Attack/Defense
[X] Make effort to practice forestry management, and to replant trees where possible.
[X]Attempt to reconstitute a service of couriers/messengers to carry the Chieftain's messages and otherwise keep the cities connected.

DIPLOMACY
[X]Rotate a section of the military to Bree regularly to show the flag and to help sweep the roads between Bree and Ost.
[X]Trade Hardwood to Mithlond for five years, as a favor to a treasured ally.
[X]Request advice from Mithlond on forestry management.
And from Imladris on skulking patrolling through the wilderness; we're going to have to rebuild instituional knowledge lost with the fall of Fornost.
[X]Send emissaries to the Shire; it's right on the road to Bree, so no point neglecting it, and the Shire-hobbits did swear allegiance to the kings of Arnor. Besides, the halflings DID send a company of archers to the Battle of Fornost.

TRADE CONTRACT
[X] Import 2 Food (Market Price): -4 gold/turn
[X] Import 2 Stone (Market Price): -6 gold/turn
[X] Export 1 Hardwood (Market Price+1) [Mithlond]: +6 gold/turn
-4 gold/turn

ACTION
YEAR 1
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[X] Pasture (-3 Gold, +2 Food, +1 Income)<-[Unemployed unit of Population goes here]

YEAR 2 [+1 POP!]
----[X] Armorers (-10 Gold, Increase Quality Available) [Req. Iron/Steel]
[X] Tame the Baranduin (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
[X] Logging Camp (-3 Gold, +3 Wood)[New Pop here]

YEAR 3
----[X] Drill Square (-10 Gold, Better Units)
[X] Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes)
--[X] Smithing Quarter (-5 Gold, -2 Taxes, 2 Iron -> 2 Steel Conversion)

YEAR 4[+1 POP!]
[X] Build Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone, +1 Shipbuilding)
[X] Mercantile District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +2 Taxes)[New Pop here]

YEAR 5
[X] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
------[X] Guard Citadel (-20 Gold, Better Units)

CASHFLOW said:
-106 gold, -28 Stone, -23 Wood,-17 Metal,
+2 Population, +2 Income/turn, + 2 Taxes/turn, +3 Wood/turn, + 2 Merchant ships, +75 gold, + 10 Metal, +20 Stone
BEGINNING
Income: 19 Gold/turn
Treasury: 35 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Stone: 19
Metal: 13
--Iron: 4

END
Income: +23 Gold/turn
Treasury: 4 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Stone: 11
Metal: 6
--Iron: 9

REASON
Extra +1 Pop from last turn allocated to Pastures in Year 1; I chose Pastures because unlike Farms, it's not affected by bad weather.

Picking Cavalry because mobility and shock value; especially given how important morale is against orcs.
Picking Well-Equipped because we can comfortably afford it now after burning through all our metal reserves; bump up to the next tier after we get a new mine or build up our metal reserves.

Building an extra Dock without population this turn while we have extra build space; since we are a trading city, extra dockspace for building ships might be important down the line, since we can only build two things per turn.
And performing both Drillyards and Guard Citadel this turn to increase the quality of our existing troops, since we're asking them to patrol the roads.


Votes please, so we can get an update sometime this week.
At least three plans I can count to choose from.
 
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look good but personally i would expand more at the end with more mining and stuff
Can't do that without Population. We could build something different than a Mercantile district in Year 5 though. I am open to suggestions.
Reposting my plan.

PLAN SNOWBALL
[Snip]

I see no way how you get new POP's in year 2 & 4 while at the same time producing less Food than my plan... I highly suspect your math is wrong.
REASON
Extra +1 Pop from last turn allocated to Pastures in Year 1; I chose Pastures because unlike Farms, it's not affected by bad weather.
Do you have a quote for that statement?
 
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I see no way how you get new POP's in year 2 & 4 while at the same time producing less Food than my plan... I highly suspect your math is wrong.
I'm going by the figures in the last turn, which haven't changed.
I quote:
Ost Falasuin
Population: 12
Income: 19 Gold
Treasury: 35 Gold
Chieftain's Treasury: 15
Food: +2(3 Growth) (0/13 Growth) [12/12 Stored]
GM hasn't changed them in this or the spreadsheet.
Do you have a quote for that statement?
I quote:
Food is produced by farms, pastures, and fishing. Excess food increases population growth.
--Farms produce 3 food and provide free housing for the workers, but can fail in devastating winters.
--Fishing produces 3 food, but costs wood to start.
----Pearls are a luxury good that can be discovered while fishing.



Basic Resource Mechanics

Resources
are all generated locally if possible, or are otherwise imported.

Winter is a special case, in that during winter wood can be consumed.
1: 1 Wood per population, farms do not generate food.
2: 1 Wood per population.
3-8: 0.5 Wood per population.
9-10: No Wood is lost.
 
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I'm going by the figures in the last turn, which haven't changed.
I quote:

GM hasn't changed them in this or the spreadsheet.
Well, then @Sayle should change that because our Storage [12/12] and Foodsurplus [+2] are normed to 12 POP. We now have 13 POP, as can be seen in the spreadsheet.

Thanks for that quote. I can see that this leaves the whole "Pastures in winter" situation abit vague, since it doesn't mention them at all.
 
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Well, then @Sayle should change that because our Storage [12/12] and Foodsurplus [+2] are normed to 12 POP. We now have 13 POP, as can be seen in the spreadsheet.
I'll work off what I can see in the Turn.
Thanks for that quote. I can see that this leaves the whole "Pastures in winter" situation abit vague, since it doesn't mention them at all.
You can move animals into shelter when winter worsens.
Planted crops can't be moved, and can be blighted; perrenials can be hurt by harsh winters, and early planted crops can be fucked over by blizzards lasting into spring.

Or even early frosts wrecking harvests.
 
I'll work off what I can see in the Turn.
That is your prerogative. But this:
Looks like you're getting a free population, then. Fortunately there is a spreadsheet now to keep track of these things.
makes me think that Spreadsheed > Turnpost when it comes to the numbers.
You can move animals into shelter when winter worsens.
Planted crops can't be moved, and can be blighted; perrenials can be hurt by harsh winters, and early planted crops can be fucked over by blizzards lasting into spring.
Or even early frosts wrecking harvests.
I agree with your reasoning, but your quote does not include WOG on the status of pastures in winter.
 
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