City Building in Middle-Earth

[X] Five Year Plan: This City of Stone

@Admiral Skippy: I wonder if it would be better to say "Petition Elrond for his aid or advice in dealing with the resurgent threat of the Barrow-Wights" rather than "Petition the Wise for their aid or advice in dealing with the resurgent threat of the Barrow-Wights." (Bold added for emphasis.)

fasquardon
 
[X] Five Year Plan: This City of Stone

To which I have nothing to say but dayum, skippy.
 
[X] Five Year Plan: This City of Stone

@Admiral Skippy: I wonder if it would be better to say "Petition Elrond for his aid or advice in dealing with the resurgent threat of the Barrow-Wights" rather than "Petition the Wise for their aid or advice in dealing with the resurgent threat of the Barrow-Wights." (Bold added for emphasis.)

fasquardon

My thought was that "the Wise" is more general and includes the Istari, whilst still clearly including Elrond and the other lords of the Eldar still dwelling at Imladris. But like, feel free to change the wording as a write-in to your vote if you feel like it.
 
I am still unconvinced about the bridge and settlement of the other bank, because of that I am on the fence. I do like most of @Admiral Skippy plan, though. but that one bit? still feels too soon and not seeing much advantadge, yet. having a small settlement on the other bank? communicated via raft or barges? sure! but I feel it should be more of a support town (farms, fishing and the like) rather than a part of the city itself, at least now, if it grows big enough? sure, but doing it this way feels like putting the cart before the oxen
 
That's certainly not an invalid point, @Chaos Blade, but IMO t'll probably be helpful to get it done before we move into the next phase of the game.

It will also be putting the cart before the horse to some extent at whatever point we do it; we can't build districts on the other side until we have these things done. Once we've settled the other bank we can start filling it with districts and take advantage of the lower stone costs for the first few circuits of walls. It also negates a significant strategic vulnerability in terms of the enemy easily being able to attack from the riverward side. )Our river walls probably aren't as high as our outer walls.) We may also be able to pick up one of the city centres that we didn't get last time. We could certainly save the Stone for the fourth circuit, but ideally if we can begin building on the eastern bank we may not need to build the fourth circuit so soon. I prioritised walling most of the city over the bridge/settlement because that provides an immediate significant defensive benefit, but IMO it is still worth doing.

I do agree however that we should look more in future to splitting off population into satellite settlements. Which meshes quite well with the nation-builder phase of the game which should be starting quite soon.
 
i`m all for not expanding the city and getting more stuff
not sure this plan does it but willing to bet on if for the future

[X] Five Year Plan: This City of Stone
 
Five Year Plan: This City of Stone
Civic Construction
Year 1

[X] Build the third circuit (-15 Gold, -28 Stone)
Year 2
->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Fishing (-3 Gold, -2 Wood, +3 Food/Turn)
[X] Small Wooden Residential District (-5 Gold, -2 Wood, +2 Housing)
Year 3
[X] Set Equipment Doctrine: Fine Equipment (-5 Metal, -1 Iron)
Year 4
--[X] Doctrine Change: Men-At-Arms -> Infantry (-10 Gold)
->[X] Assign New Population (1) to Military (Infantry) (-20 Gold, -5 Metal, - 1 Iron)
[X] Military District: Bree (-10 Gold)
Year 5
[X] Bridge the River (-10 Gold, -20 Stone)
--[X] Settle the East Bank (-10 Gold, -10 Stone)

Diplomacy and Military
Year 1

[X] Investigate importing food more cheaply from the Shire in future, shipping it by barge down the Baranduin.
Year 2
[X] Petition the Wise for their aid or counsel in quelling the Barrow-Wights.
Year 3
[X] Investigate trading for stone or coal with the dwarves of the Blue Mountains.
Year 4
[X] Garrison Bree.
Year 5
[X] Investigate the current state of the High Pass.

Trade and Treasury
[X] Import 4 Stone (-12 Gold/Turn)
[X] Import 4 Food (-8 Gold/Turn)
[X] Export 1 Hardwood (+5 Gold/Turn)
[X] Export 2 Metal (+4 Gold/ Turn)
[X] Export 1 Iron (+2 Gold/Turn)
[X] Open Chieftain's Treasury in Year 4 to finance garrison in Bree (-30 Gold C.T.)
Net: - 9 Gold/Turn
 
[X] Five Year Plan: This City of Stone

If we need some Wise Men to help with the Barrow Wights, we can do that in a) Rivendell, b) Mithlond or c) the Old Forest. Tom Bombadil is a thing there.
 
My thought was that "the Wise" is more general and includes the Istari, whilst still clearly including Elrond and the other lords of the Eldar still dwelling at Imladris. But like, feel free to change the wording as a write-in to your vote if you feel like it.

I was just thinking that aiming the request at someone or something specific like the Istari or Elrond would get better results - it would if I were running the quest (since I'd be thinking "you want your emissaries to do how much traveling in this 5 year period?")

Then again, it is 5 years, so if we have enough emissaries, maybe we can do it.

fasquardon
 
personally i still think we need too expand out resource building and less expansion it will prove useful for later projects i think
really don`t feel like doing too math on all that but those are my 2 cents on the matter
 
TA 2005 - 2010
Your efforts to explore the possibility of trade with the Shire for food comes to nothing, as at present the Hobbits are uninterested in entangling themselves with the outside world. To them the last time they did so many of their kin died in defense of Fornost, a failed endeavour. For the moment it is enough that they defend their own lands, which they have been doing with grim watchfulness.

Consultations with Elrond Half-Elven by Aranarth reveal that it should be possible to overthrow the evil in the Barrow-Downs, but at a great cost. The defiled tombs of your ancestors must be thrown open and caved in, the barrow-treasures destroyed, and the wights themselves put to the sword and the flame. Such a thing would be a mighty untaking given the fell spirits with and without bodies that dwell there, but that it can be done is in itself a relief.

The dwarves of Thorin's Halls are struggling at present and do not wish to be disturbed. Their expulsion from Moria by Durin's Bane has put pressure on all the dwarf-holds as they take in refugees, and they are an insular race to begin with. The paths to Thorin's Halls are treacherous at present in any case.

The return of a garrison to Bree is necessary to protect the area, but disaster strikes when riots break out at the return of troops. They quickly spiral out of control and many more die from fire and infighting than to being quelled by the garrison. It takes almost a week for order to be fully restored, and by that time the damage has been done.

The High Pass is overrun by orcs, and your scouts barely return with their lives. The goblins and orcs of the Misty Mountains are firmly entrenched there, roving back and forth, and will no doubt remain so for some generations as the great throng that were bred in Angmar are killed by their fellows and the population reduces to more normal levels.

The price of stone has spiked sharply in response to a massive building project by the King of Gondor. He is building a colossal fortification around the Pelennor Fields around Minas Tirith, called the Rammas Echor. It will be some time until it is complete. Additionally the great mustering and armament of Gondor has also increased the price of metal and food.

Many ships have been conscripted to repel attacks from the resurgent corsairs of Umbar, and as a result your trade is now constrained by the number of merchant ships you possess. You may trade up to two units of resources per type.

[ ] Food (Market Price+1)
[ ] Wood (Market Price)
[ ] Stone (Market Price+2)
[ ] Metal (Market Price+1)
[ ] Iron (Market Price+1)
[ ] Hardwood (Market Price)





In each turn you will generate resources. Each unit of population will generate 2 resources of one type (food/wood/stone/metal), or 3 if that resource is abundant in the area. Population is split equally between tasks, so working three resources (food/stone/wood) with a population of six will have two workers on each. While populations can produce fractions of a unit if not split equally (2.6 stone), only whole numbers are used when all output is totalled (2.6 stone + 2.6 stone = 5, not 5.2).

Food is first consumed locally (to feed the population), half of the excess is used to fuel growth in that settlement, and the other half is distributed into a global pool which all settlements grow from. No growth occurs in devastating winters. The size of the food surplus determines recovery time, and if another devastating winter occurs before that time is up you can suffer population losses.

Wood is needed for shipbuilding.

Stone is needed for major building projects like roads, fortifications, and cities.

Metal is needed to outfit army units.

At the end of the turn, 'free' population can be distributed as you like to either establish a new settlement, train military units, or improve output of the settlements they came from.

Each settlement has a few metrics of success.

Population does the jobs, pay their taxes, and are consumed to make military units. They also produce two units of a specific resource, with location adding bonuses or maluses to production.
Taxes are a function of population, and give you gold that you need to carry out improvement actions.
Resources are generated depending on town location, with towns near forests producing lumber, towns in open areas producing foods, and towns near mountains providing metal. All settlements have the chance to find quality stone. Buildings can also expand production, but population are equally divided between tasks.

Military units cost upkeep (infantry 4, cavalry 6), with infantry being the main-line troops and cavalry being used for flanking and breaking the enemy. Your military capacity increases by 1 for every 10 population (military units don't count). Going over your military capacity will increase the upkeep cost of all your units by the percentage you are over the cap by (having 11 military units with a capacity of 10 will make upkeep 10% more expensive).

Military units are produced by paying the cost in the military tab and consuming a free unit of population of the culture you want the unit to be (Northmen or Dunedain). Dunedain are superior soldiers, but Northmen gain a morale bonus when garrisoning a Northmen-culture town.

Settlements have at least one resource that they produce better than normal, usually associated with the region they are in. It is possible that a settlement will also produce stone.

Settlements must have 10 or more population before they become minor cities and can build fortifications.

Colonizing a new area requires a minimum of two population from the nearest area with a city (a settlement with ten or more population). So if Bree is the closest city you can take free population from Bree, but not Ost Falasuin. It costs 10 gold per population (so a minimum of 20 gold.



Ered Luin is a mountainous region with easy access to metals, and is also the site of Thorin's Halls, the major dwarven settlement west of the Misty Mountains. The Blue Mountains are home to the diminutive goblins, weaker cousins of the orcs.
Orodsîr is a Dunedain settlement established by survivors of Arthedain, and provides the capital of Ost Falasuin metal and iron from the mines. (Food/Stone/+Metals/Iron)
Security: None
Danger: Low (Goblins)
----------
Baranduin is a mighty river that flows from Lake Evendim to the mouth of the sea, providing arable land along its length. It is largely secure, but the occasional orc presence wandering down from the north can make it less safe.
Ost Falasuin is the capital of the Chieftain of the Dunedain, Lord of Arthedain. Its position near the cape of Eryn Vorn provides access to timber, while the plentiful fishing ensures its food needs are met. (+Food/+Wood/Lebethron)
Cor Wilishar
Iach Sarn
Security: 1
Danger: Low (Orcs)
----------
Minharaith is the land between the Baranduin and Gwathlo rivers, once the heartland of Cardolan. The primeval forests have all fallen, leaving behind arable land and vast plains. The free passage of hill-men and orcs across it have left it dangerous to the lone traveller.
Tharbad is the old link between Gondor and Arnor, but has been effectively independent for some time and has now officially severed all ties of loyalty with the North-Kingdom.
Argond
Thalion
Security: None
Danger: Medium (Men, Orcs)
----------
Enedhwaith marks the border between Arnor and Gondor, consisting primarily of grassland and forest. In recent history it has fallen to lawlessness and in the place of the Dunedain Kingdoms new orders of middle-men and mixed-blood tribes have risen to squabble over the area.
Lond Daer
Security: None
Danger: Medium (Men)
----------
Bree-Land is centrally located, and benefits by proximity to the Old Forest and other small woods. However the scattering of orcs and evil men after the Battle of Fornost are still felt here, with marauding bands of orcs and men threatening those who leave the safety of Bree. Worse still are the Barrow-Wights of Tyrn Gorthad, who make passage down the North-South road all but impossible.
Bree has long been a trading center, first for the Old Kingdom and then Arthedain. While able to sustain itself, it is a long way from its heyday, and is the core settlement for Northmen in Eriador. (Food/Wood)
Security: 1
Danger: High (Orcs, Men, Barrow-Wights)
----------
The Shire
Security: N/A
Danger: Low (Orcs, Wolves)
----------
Nenuial is that ancient and hallowed lake that bears the city of Elendil on its shore. Long abandoned it is home now to tribes that have descended from the hills of Emyn Uial and roving orc-bands.
Annúminas
Barketta
Security: None
Danger: Medium (Orcs, Men)
----------
The North-Downs were the center of power for Arthedain, with the city of Fornost Erain holding the capital and its farthest northern reached marked by the minor town of Athilin. Those days have gone down into shadow, and now the North-Downs are home to orcs, ruin, and worse.
Fornost Erain
Athilin
Security: None
Danger: High (Orcs, Men)
----------
The Lone-Lands watch over the Last Lonely Bridge and the road to Imladris, but has long since been abandoned.
Amon Sul
Security: None
Danger: High (Orcs, Men, Wolves)
----------
The Trollshaws are aptly named, but the proximity to Imladris has prevented any fell power from gathering strength.
Fennas Drunin
Security: None
Danger: Medium (Orcs, Trolls)
----------
Rhudaur was subverted long before Angmar annexed the kingdom, and the ruins of Cameth Brin are occupied by the scions of that kingdom, savage men who now dwell in the squalor of the fallen Arnorian successor state.
Cameth Brin
Security: None
Danger: Medium (Orcs, Trolls, Men)



Dunedain (+50% Discipline)
Northmen (+20% Garrison Morale)
Military Size: 2
Military Capacity: 3
Foot Doctrine: Infantry (20 Gold, -5 Metal, -1 Iron/Steel) [Recruit in Def. 2 Cities or Above]
Cavalry Doctrine: N/A
Equipment Doctrine: Fine Equipment (+20% Damage)
(Free) Spearmen: While lacking any notable combat ability, these blocks of men are willing to stand their ground against the enemy.
--OR--
(10 Gold) Men-at-Arms: These stalwart soldiers give as good as they get, but specialise in defensive fighting that relies on unity and courage to outlast the enemy. [Req. Defense Level 1]
--OR--
(20 Gold) Infantry: These professional soldiers build upon their individual skill at arms with formations designed to break the enemy with lightning advances and brutal charges. [Req. Defense Level 2]
--OR--
(40 Gold) Arnorian Infantry: Preferring to engage with both bow and sword, these men sacrifice power in the melee for damage at range and possess unshakeable courage. [Req. Defense Level 3]
--Pick One--
Cavalry: These horsemen are a short, sharp shock, and are willing to take casualties if it means dealing a decisive blow.
--OR--
Skirmishers: While more than willing to charge again and again and remaining in the thick of things, loss in numbers quickly wear down these agile horsemen.
Equipment Doctrine:
Well Equipped (-2 Metal): +10% Damage
Fine Equipment (-5 Metal, 1 Iron/Steel): +20% Damage
Exceptional Equipment (-10 Metal, 1 Steel): +30% Damage
Ost Falasuin:
Finely-Equipped Dunedain Infantry
Bree:
Finely-Equipped Dunedain Infantry
Númerrámar
2 Ciralya
Income: 34 Gold
Treasury: 23 Gold
Wood: 2
--Hardwood: 1
Stone: 32
Metal: 8
--Iron: 9
[ ] Establish Settlement (X)
[ ] Secure Area (X)
[ ] Secure Area (Bree-Land)
--[ ] Purge the Barrow-Downs
[ ] Military Campaign (X)
[ ] Expand Ost Falasuin Docks (-5 Gold, -4 Stone) [+1 Shipbuilding] [1 Turn]
[ ] Industrial Smithies (-20 Gold) [Req. Def Level 3] [2 Iron -> 2 Steel/turn] [1 Turn]
[ ] Orodsir Road (-10 Gold/turn, -20 Stone/turn) [? Turns]
[ ] Basic Wall (-10 Gold, -10 Stone) [Defensiveness +1, Req. 10 Population] [1 Turn]
[ ] Expanded Walls (-20 Gold, -20 Stone) [Defensiveness +1, Req. 12 Population] [2 Turns]
[ ] Outer Circuit (-30 Gold, -30 Stone) [Defensiveness +1, Req. 15 Population] [3 Turns]
[ ] Gateway Keeps (-40 Gold, -40 Stone) [Defensiveness +1, Req. 20 Population] [4 Turns]
[ ] Granite Facings (-50 Gold, -50 Stone, -10 Granite) [Defensiveness +1, Req. 25 Population] [5 Turns]
Current Capacity: 1
[ ] Ciralya (Merchant Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[ ] Ciryarámar (Sailing Ship) (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[ ] Númerrámar (Númenorean Vessel) [Req. 1 Hardwood] (-10 Gold, -10 Wood) [Req. 1 Shipbuilding]
[ ] Ëarturyandë (Floating Fortress) [Req. 5 Hardwood] (-100 Gold, -50 Wood) [Req. 5 Shipbuilding]
 
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Okay so changes mean we have very low stone income (2 per turn) and metal income (3 per turn). Wood is now 28 units produced.

@Sayle
Question:
1. Do we still need to consume wood for winters?
2. Can we scout areas to determine resource production before settling?
3. Can we move population to an existing settlement?
4. How does the rate of gaining and finding special resources such as Iron and Lebthorn work now?

Edit:
5. Building projects do we need to specify a location for options such as smithies and walls?
6. For walls and other such buildings will those be listed under each city as to what they have?
 
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Here's some preliminary thoughts:
Ered Luin is mostly safe and full of the resources we are running low on.
The River Baranduin seems like a attractive area to expand into (especially refounding Lach Sarn)
We have more than enough wood, it may be time to focus on maritime trade and fishing. (although Umbar might make that difficult)

Edit-
Bree is getting upitty, maybe we (the chief) should visit to sooth things over.

More statigically speaking I'd like to focus the River Baranduin. Towns along the river would always have safe passage (and probably produce food or trade) and Annuminas would be a good secondary capital (or fall back point) and towns around Nenuail would probably produce stone and metal. I'd also like to build Bree up as a lighting rod for nastiness and a military staging point (perhaps even manning Amon Sul.)
 
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We lost -2 Pop in Bree due to riots and fighting.
Not particularly auspicious.

That said, we can apparently tackle the Wights.
I would suggest Arnorian Infantry for that.

And we need to spam merchant ships, along with warships to protect them.
 
Ered Luin is mostly safe and full of the resources we are running low on.
The River Baranduin seems like a attractive area to expand into (especially refounding Lach Sarn)
We have more than enough wood, it may be time to focus on maritime trade and fishing. (although Umbar might make that difficult)

all of this sounds good
more food and more wood and stone and trade sounds like a really good way too go.
adding with that the building of say a basic wall(s) for now sounding like a plan
 
Shouldn't there be a bridge across the Baranduin at Ost Falasuin on the map ? Assuming the build a bridge and settle the other bank options happened as planed that is.
 
@Sayle
RE: Building Options
Guard Citadel is no longer available?
[ ] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Better Units)
----[ ] Drill Square (-10 Gold, Better Units)
------[ ] Guard Citadel (-20 Gold, Better Units)
 
Some things to note
Orodir produces 2/3 food, 2/3 stone and 1 metal per pop point
Ost Falasuin produces 1.5 food and 1.5 wood per pop point
Bree produces 1 food and 1 wood per pop point

I would suggest moving two points from bree and one from Ost Falasuin to Orodir if we can do so. Please note Orodir is always going to need to import food. As it is we need to find out what the resources available at possible settlements are.
 
Okay so changes mean we have very low stone income (2 per turn) and metal income (3 per turn). Wood is now 28 units produced.

@Sayle
Question:
1. Do we still need to consume wood for winters?
2. Can we scout areas to determine resource production before settling?
3. Can we move population to an existing settlement?
4. How does the rate of gaining and finding special resources such as Iron and Lebthorn work now?

Edit:
5. Building projects do we need to specify a location for options such as smithies and walls?
6. For walls and other such buildings will those be listed under each city as to what they have?

1. No.
2. Yes, just ask.
3. No, you can only move free population (you have none this turn, but this turn is just asking questions about the new system and setting priorities).
4. You gain 1 per resource found.
5. You need to specify a location.
6. Yes, that will be listed. For example on the map you can see Ost Falasuin has 3 defensiveness, so it has Outer Walls and the previous upgrades.

@Sayle
RE: Building Options
Guard Citadel is no longer available?
[ ] Training Grounds (-5 Gold, Better Units)
----[ ] Drill Square (-10 Gold, Better Units)
------[ ] Guard Citadel (-20 Gold, Better Units)

Unit recruitment is now dictated by the defensiveness rating of the town - better units (if you have your doctrine set to recruit that better unit type) can only be recruited from well-defended towns. In this case if you upgrade Bree to the next level you can recruit infantry there, but can't at present. On the other hand, Ost Falasuin is already set up to recruit Arnorian Infantry if you upgrade doctrine to that.
 
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Unit recruitment is now dictated by the defensiveness rating of the town - better units (if you have your doctrine set to recruit that better unit type) can only be recruited from well-defended towns. In this case if you upgrade Bree to the next level you can recruit infantry there, but can't at present. On the other hand, Ost Falasuin is already set up to recruit Arnorian Infantry if you upgrade doctrine to that.
Ah.
Couple more questions:
QUESTIONS
1)Can we move military units around settlements and regions?
As in, if we needed to secure or purge a region, does that only involve the units garrisoned in the region, or can we move units from other regions?

2) Can we still run short of wood during harsh winters?
Is this something to watch out for?

3) Is there a minimum population requirement before we can garrison a settlement?
Or if we have a spare military unit, can we just stick it on there?

4)How many units can garrison a settlement anyway?

5) Do new buildings(eg Industrial Smithies)automatically go into use?

6) Can we recruit troops that are below our current national doctrine?For example, can we recruit Free Spearmen at Bree?
For that matter, can we raise or decrease our infantry doctrine at need?

7)What does the Security rating of a Region stand for?
How is it improved?

8)Orödsirs production of Stone went down from 3 to 2.
Intentional?

9)Market Prices of trade goods are no longer on the Gdoc.
 
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