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But the existence of the "you" that you believe in is so tenuous - Shin Megami Tensei/Persona General

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AuraTwilight said:
Except all those Shadow-related things represent different problems. It's not like "Persona 4: Nyx is at it again elll oh elllllll"
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Uhuh, you completely forgot it's EREBUS who's the main problem, right? You know, that thing that's the manifestation of all of humanity's negativity? The thing that's STILL trying to call to Nyx even after the end of The Journey? And in any event, is it really a different problem? You can boil it all down to one major, general problem: humanity's negative traits stirring up the Shadow pot.
 
No, I didn't forget, the quote was just a shitty joke. Unbunch your nuts.

Erebus isn't "all of humanity's negativity" so much as "Humanity's collective wish to die", which is different from "Humanity's inability to cope with loneliness" or whatever. The fact that Erebus hasn't been beaten 5ever yet is irrelevant in the face of the fact that it's permanently cockblocked from it's goal and has multiple immortal badasses intent on keeping it down while helping mankind enlighten.

Sorry using anime powers to stab a god in the face doesn't automatically solve mankind's psychological issues, is that what you require in order to see proof of progress? Isn't it good enough that people routinely and regularly rise up to the challenge of refusing to let gods dictate their fate without needing to invoke Lucifer or something?

Isn't it enough that, despite everything, humanity keeps trying, and won't be deterred from grasping at their own future?
 
Why not? It's getting results. Friendly Shadows become possible. People obtain power to oppose gods and demons without using the power of either. YHWH is significantly less of a GigaDouche in Devil Survivor, etc.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Why not? It's getting results. Friendly Shadows become possible. People obtain power to oppose gods and demons without using the power of either. YHWH is significantly less of a GigaDouche in Devil Survivor, etc.
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...He tried to blame humanity for the King of Bel shitstorm, which was a direct result of his actions, then trapped a large amount of innocents and planned to murder them all at the end of the week. And don't try to tell me there was no other option - he could have let the Japanese government have everyone evacuated before the Bels invaded for their little tournament. The presence of innocents was completely unnecessary.

No. No he is no less of a gigadouche than normal. Just because his angels claim that he is doesn't make it reality, especially when we've got Cain hanging around to act as a direct character witness. There is a very good reason why Amane's father wants to kill YHWH.
 
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I mean, I totally agree with all the above, but that's still significantly better than how YHWH is in other games. I'm just sayin'.
 
GilliamYaeger said:
...He tried to blame humanity for the King of Bel shitstorm, which was a direct result of his actions, then trapped a large amount of innocents and planned to murder them all at the end of the week. And don't try to tell me there was no other option - he could have let the Japanese government have everyone evacuated before the Bels invaded for their little tournament. The presence of innocents was completely unnecessary.
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Eh, there's kind of a hole in that idea. If you recall, the Japanese government already knew about the upcoming invasion because they passed the PSE Law a looong time before the 7 days occur to get their giant Yamanote microwave up. Which indicates that the Law side did tell the humans what was coming (because the Shomonkai and Chaos warning them about the demon invasion is fucking dumb since that basically guts their plans), except the Nipponese officials decided it was a better idea to make a giant, jury-rigged, demon-killing microwave oven instead of making a fake disaster to evacuate the Yamanote circle on the days before the Shomonkai start their plan. :facepalm: And judging from the actions of the government in-game, they're dumb and incompetent enough to do that all on their lonesome.

Lichte said:
Look, I'm as up for shit-talking SMT!YHVH as the next guy, but that's not exactly an unbiased testimony. :V
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Indeed. Our two sources for that are a) a guy who was dumb enough to think burnt sacrificial offerings=fresh fruits and veggies in a society and time period where all burnt offerings were dead farm animals (and was too proud to ask his younger bro for one sheep) and b) a guy whose plans we foiled twice and is extremely salty towards us. :V
 
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Pocky Balboa said:
Eh, there's kind of a hole in that idea. If you recall, the Japanese government already knew about the upcoming invasion because they passed the PSE Law a looong time before the 7 days occur to get their giant Yamanote microwave up. Which indicates that the Law side did tell the humans what was coming (because the Shomonkai and Chaos warning them about the demon invasion is fucking dumb since that basically guts their plans), except the Nipponese officials decided it was a better idea to make a giant, jury-rigged, demon-killing microwave oven instead of making a fake disaster to evacuate the Yamanote circle on the days before the Shomonkai start their plan. :facepalm: And judging from the actions of the government in-game, they're dumb and incompetent enough to do that all on their lonesome.
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Except that they didn't really have much of a choice in the matter. The angels are basically holding the Japanese government at gunpoint. What, do you think they'd willingly shut down the center of their entire economy down for a whole week? Their economy is bad enough as it is. Izuna (IIRC) tells you how the Tokyo shutdown has basically screwed over the rest of the nation.

So, no. I don't believe that the Japanese government were a willing participant in this mess.
 
GilliamYaeger said:
Except that they didn't really have much of a choice in the matter. The angels are basically holding the Japanese government at gunpoint. What, do you think they'd willingly shut down the center of their entire economy down for a whole week? Their economy is bad enough as it is. Izuna (IIRC) tells you how the Tokyo shutdown has basically screwed over the rest of the nation.

So, no. I don't believe that the Japanese government were a willing participant in this mess.
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Again, the PSE law was decided on waaaaaaaay before the entire mess. The latest revision was back in 2001. That's the latest the whole "install remote controlled chips for microwave" thing could have happened and that is a long enough time for the Japanese government to devise a plan of action that wouldn't have fucked the economy badly. Instead they decided to spend all of that time and money on a giant make-shift microwave oven. That's fucking Saturday morning cartoon villain-tier planning right there.

And as for willingly shutting the economy down? Yes, they would. Izuna even says that's preferable over a demon invasion (the same conversation where the state of the nation was discussed). If an evacuation would cause that, then yes, they'd still do it. Heck, an evacuation might have fucked up the Shomonkai's plans anyway, if they really needed a bunch of random citizens in the Circle to have COMPs for their plan. Fushimi and Izuna said that the angels appeared and warned the government that the disaster's coming and it'll be up to the humans to solve it as the angels having to directly help means acknowledging the humans will give up all agency to them. And Tokyo decided to make the weaponized microwave dealie rather than any other sensible solution.

Plus nowhere in DeSu does the prophecy state an exact or even an approximate date for the disaster to occur. All it says is basically if you do this bad thing, then this shit will happen and it'll be a trial for humanity to overcome. It seems more like the "prophecy" is just a general warning against using tech for mass demon summoning rather than a signal for the start of the Bel War, since, as Loki stated, the War's been going on from the shattering of the original Bel (another indicator that the war is already occurring in the Expanse is Belberith having already defeated and absorbed Bael, Baal, and Belphegor long before his incarnation on Earth). Which would put the onus on the disaster on whoever decides to do the mass summoning.
 
I love this series. It's far and away my favorite JRPG franchise right now with Fire Emblem a close second.
 
September 15th release date! Don't know about Western release.



Special Edition comes with artbook, best of soudtrack from all 5 series and DLC personas, costumes, bgm and themes.



 
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