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Burning Twice As Bright (ATLA Azula SI)

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tomaO2 said:
*cough* Sozin's Comet *cough*

You remember that? It can happen. It HAS happened. That's how they ALREADY committed genocide on the Air Nomads. This comet also was the power behind their plan to do a scorched earth policy on Earth Nation.

Also, those people aren't benders, they are normal people. That are being integrated into the fire nation. The way that the second series is going, the implication is that culture decides what sort of benders you have. Otherwise, the restoration of the Nomads is impossible, without an extreme breeding program, since all the new Nomads are actually Earth citizens.

If they kill/imprison every bender of a different element and then take the remaining populations and turn their citizens into fire nation people. Destroying the culture of their previous people, how is that NOT genocide?

The south pole bending was wrecked and they would have done the same to the north if they could. They TRIED by killing the source of their bending, so no water bender could ever exist again. The people were left in a fraction of their former glory. I can well imagine the South Pole once being as strong as the North before Fire Nation destroyed it.

Fire Nation makes me sick. They launched an aggressive war on the world for centuries, killed an entire nation, destroyed the prosperity of others, and wiped out all bending that wasn't their own. They got off too lightly in this series. Far, far, too lightly.

If this SI wants to encourage one of the worst members of Fire Nation to act on her evil impluses... I have a hard time believing that she would really be that cruel without her undergoing some sort of mindscrew. Might want to change it from being an SI to some nameless demon.
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No there are benders in the colonies. There are some comics talking about this.
After the war Aang wanted to restore balance to the world so the fire nation had to leave the Earth Kingdom. Zuko at first agreed with Aang. But after going to Yu Doa were he saw earthbenders and firebenders fully integrated he changed his mind. When the Earth Kingdom King heard of this he mobilised his army to ''Liberate the colonies'' and Zuko went and protected the colonies. Aang stopped it by founding Republic City were all benders can live.
Also your point of Earth benders dissepearing is wrong because after 100 years there are still Earth benders in the colonies (Second and third generation included).
 
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No one expects the Royal Inquisition...

Cough*

I wonder how long Fishie will believe this to be a dream...

Fishie are you the type to freakout and mentally breakdown when you find yourself transported into the mind of a ten year old antagonist?
 
An inquisition. So we are going to be torturing people with the stretching rack, and the thumb screws, to make them confess to crimes they didn't commit while also telling us about the names of other people that didn't commit crimes that we can unfairly prosecute? Cause, if so, this is honestly the absolutely evil SI I can remember reading.

Not that I mind evil people but, if this is honestly an SI that supposed to be what the Author thinks they would do, I find it rather disturbing.

tinkerbell said:
No there are benders in the colonies. There are some comics talking about this.
After the war Aang wanted to restore balance to the world so the fire nation had to leave the Earth Kingdom. Zuko at first agreed with Aang. But after going to Yu Doa were he saw earthbenders and firebenders fully integrated he changed his mind. When the Earth Kingdom King heard of this he mobilised his army to ''Liberate the colonies'' and Zuko went and protected the colonies. Aang stopped it by founding Republic City were all benders can live.
Also your point of Earth benders dissepearing is wrong because after 100 years there are still Earth benders in the colonies (Second and third generation included).
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Aang was a naïve little boy that never had the conviction to go all out. World balance was wrecked the moment Air Nomads got wiped out. Fire Nation was a cancer on the world and needed to be dealt with beyond just taking down the emperor.

Now, don't get me wrong, killing a leader, like Hitler, could end the war but only after Germany realized it was losing badly. Which Fire Nation WASN'T. Hell, Aang couldn't even do that much. The last minute cop out, that taking away the leader's bending would suddenly make him stop being a threat, is absurd. That man was a danger of being reinstated as leader as long as people believed in what he did. Which they did because the propaganda machine had been indoctrinating them for generations. Kings shouldn't be fighting anyway.

There's jack-all in the cartoon about this nicer side anyway so I'm skeptical of it. Sounds like revisionism to try and make it sound like Fire nation wasn't full of genocidal maniacs that STILL wiped out the Air Nomad Nation and killed and imprisoned every South Tribe water bender, AND killed the source of water bending. An inconvenient fact you like to ignore, for some reason. When balanced against, didn't manage to kill/imprison every earth bender (assuming they were not simply released from jail after war's end), I find it lacking.

I say that if they didn't completely destroy all Earth benders it's likely only because Earth Nation was too big and interconnected to do that to. Unlike South Tribe, they can get reinforcements from the rest of their people without traveling, over the ocean, from the other side of the world. Of course, that was all before the comet returned. At that point it was a complete scorched earth policy.

Where were the cries that doing that was going too far from the people of Fire Nation? Did anyone care in the military that they were committing a horrible act of mass murder? Were there cries that such a thing should not be repeated after the last time wiped out the Air Nomads, because, even in war, some things are just too terrible to do? Not that we saw.

How do we know these Earth Benders were living openly and in peace with the Fire Nation before the war ended? Any evidence they were using their powers overtly or where they hiding it in fear of being imprisoned? Could they not have been part of an underground resistance movement? Even if they were in the open, might they not be seen as collaborators? The fact that Fire Nation didn't manage to catch every single bender in their borders does not mean that they were not trying to do so.

Leaving the Fire Nation leadership in place is appalling. I don't care if Zuko is a nice guy or not. Why should we believe that, because Aang declares him King that everyone will just fall in line with a radically new ideology? There were no surrender, no reparations, just an offer to have them retreat. NO WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL. They just let their former emperor be the scape goat in their internal effort to clean house and show the world that they were going to be good neighbors from now on. It's really naive to believe that after a century of war that people would just roll over because one man was taken down. You have to decapitate the entire leadership structure. There was no Justice, as far as I am concerned. They got off scott free despite their atrocities. Not even a god damned apology.

The thing that makes fire nation really scary to me is that it's not obviously evil. The people that live in it are fairly free and prosperous and, yes, they do have conquered areas that they treat with a lighter hand. So some people like you can sympathise and just sweep under the rug the many horrible things they did. YOu say sure, but they just did that to X group, and were pretty decent to the rest. Then we all end up happy because one or two people are punished and now everything will be fixed forever. Happy ending.

Doesn't work like that. Just a lot of happy thoughts. They still committed genocide against the groups they went all out against. I feel the end of that series was a complete cop out in every way imaginable.
 
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It's a children's cartoon. You may as well argue that teletubbies should be missing limbs due to mismanagement of the inevitable diabetes they must have from their high carb high sugar diet.
 
Teletubbies didn't have a character that committed genocide. Most evil nations in cartoons are EVIL. They are demons, they are a race that lives for the death of humans. They are a military nation that doesn't have any goodness in it except for a few pocket of some underground movement.

At the very least, they can be comically evil. Sure, that guy is planning on killing the smurfs or whoever, but you know that he doesn't have the skills to do so and everything will be fine at the end of the episode.

Here, we see the atrocities. The criminals are VERY effective in their work and it's not just one or two people scaring others along with them. It's an entire nation that has geared itself for war for a century. This cartoon didn't have to go there but it did. So they should have resolved it in a more realistic way.
 
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Your doing it again

The target audience has no care or concept of these issues so they are pointless to include. You think most people who watch captain America care that hitler originally joins the nazi party as an infiltrator? Or that he by passed the military restrictions from WW1 by creating private clubs with military applicable training? No they don't its irrelevant to the story.

Hitler is a BAD GUY and he needs to be defeated, that's all that matters it's not a complex social piece it's entertainment for kids
 
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tomaO2 said:
...This cartoon didn't have to go there but it did. So they should have resolved it in a more realistic way.
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Just to clarify, you're begging realism from a world where people regularly spout fire from their knuckles at other people who kick boulders at them? Yeah... that's... uh... good luck with that.
 
The fire nation surrendered to the Avatar there wasn't any grand army that beat them in their turf, I doubt even Zuko would be so much of a pushover that he'd allow for his nation to be judged, no matter how much they might deserve it, and also it's been a 100 years since the genocide almost nobody alive cares anymore by this point.
 
tomaO2 said:
An inquisition. So we are going to be torturing people with the stretching rack, and the thumb screws, to make them confess to crimes they didn't commit while also telling us about the names of other people that didn't commit crimes that we can unfairly prosecute? Cause, if so, this is honestly the absolutely evil SI I can remember reading.
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Personally I'd rather be tried by the non-Spanish Inquisition than a secular court of the same era. At least priests were trained to understand abstract reasoning and rarely actually believed in witchcraft. Hell, they had like a 60% acquittal rating for most of their existence - that kind of evenhandedness is unheard of from that period of legal history.
 
tomaO2 said:
An inquisition. So we are going to be torturing people with the stretching rack, and the thumb screws, to make them confess to crimes they didn't commit while also telling us about the names of other people that didn't commit crimes that we can unfairly prosecute? Cause, if so, this is honestly the absolutely evil SI I can remember reading.

Not that I mind evil people but, if this is honestly an SI that supposed to be what the Author thinks they would do, I find it rather disturbing.



Aang was a naïve little boy that never had the conviction to go all out. World balance was wrecked the moment Air Nomads got wiped out. Fire Nation was a cancer on the world and needed to be dealt with beyond just taking down the emperor.

Now, don't get me wrong, killing a leader, like Hitler, could end the war but only after Germany realized it was losing badly. Which Fire Nation WASN'T. Hell, Aang couldn't even do that much. The last minute cop out, that taking away the leader's bending would suddenly make him stop being a threat, is absurd. That man was a danger of being reinstated as leader as long as people believed in what he did. Which they did because the propaganda machine had been indoctrinating them for generations. Kings shouldn't be fighting anyway.

There's jack-all in the cartoon about this nicer side anyway so I'm skeptical of it. Sounds like revisionism to try and make it sound like Fire nation wasn't full of genocidal maniacs that STILL wiped out the Air Nomad Nation and killed and imprisoned every South Tribe water bender, AND killed the source of water bending. An inconvenient fact you like to ignore, for some reason. When balanced against, didn't manage to kill/imprison every earth bender (assuming they were not simply released from jail after war's end), I find it lacking.

I say that if they didn't completely destroy all Earth benders it's likely only because Earth Nation was too big and interconnected to do that to. Unlike South Tribe, they can get reinforcements from the rest of their people without traveling, over the ocean, from the other side of the world. Of course, that was all before the comet returned. At that point it was a complete scorched earth policy.

Where were the cries that doing that was going too far from the people of Fire Nation? Did anyone care in the military that they were committing a horrible act of mass murder? Were there cries that such a thing should not be repeated after the last time wiped out the Air Nomads, because, even in war, some things are just too terrible to do? Not that we saw.

How do we know these Earth Benders were living openly and in peace with the Fire Nation before the war ended? Any evidence they were using their powers overtly or where they hiding it in fear of being imprisoned? Could they not have been part of an underground resistance movement? Even if they were in the open, might they not be seen as collaborators? The fact that Fire Nation didn't manage to catch every single bender in their borders does not mean that they were not trying to do so.

Leaving the Fire Nation leadership in place is appalling. I don't care if Zuko is a nice guy or not. Why should we believe that, because Aang declares him King that everyone will just fall in line with a radically new ideology? There were no surrender, no reparations, just an offer to have them retreat. NO WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL. They just let their former emperor be the scape goat in their internal effort to clean house and show the world that they were going to be good neighbors from now on. It's really naive to believe that after a century of war that people would just roll over because one man was taken down. You have to decapitate the entire leadership structure. There was no Justice, as far as I am concerned. They got off scott free despite their atrocities. Not even a god damned apology.

The thing that makes fire nation really scary to me is that it's not obviously evil. The people that live in it are fairly free and prosperous and, yes, they do have conquered areas that they treat with a lighter hand. So some people like you can sympathise and just sweep under the rug the many horrible things they did. YOu say sure, but they just did that to X group, and were pretty decent to the rest. Then we all end up happy because one or two people are punished and now everything will be fixed forever. Happy ending.

Doesn't work like that. Just a lot of happy thoughts. They still committed genocide against the groups they went all out against. I feel the end of that series was a complete cop out in every way imaginable.
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I never said the fire nation are the good guys. I just said that in the fire nation colonies fire benders and earth benders live peacefully side by side thousands of people not just 1 family.
The fire nation is a nice Roman Empire. They did not kill the air benders because they hated air benders but because Aang is a air bender and they are afraid of the avatar. Lots of the stuff you are asking/talking about gets explained in the comics. You could go and read them online or go look on the wiki. No need to rant at me.
 
Doesn't an Inquisition imply a kind of internal monitoring system, made to root out dissent and treason within your own ranks? Kind of like a much scarier version of Internal Investigations?
If the SI really wanted something that was her own private joke by having it have scary historical connotations....
She might have called it a Crusade, or her own Legion, or the Lightning War Unit (Blitzkrieg), or the
Schutzstaffel (WWII era 'defense corps' lolz about as genuine as the name Democratic People's Republic of Korea).

Still I'm just nitpicking. This story is amazing and can I say I love the red text for the SI speech? It's a small thing but it adds a lot of texture and flavor to the story. Def on my Watched list.
 
Oh, but I'm saving "Crusade" and "Legions" for something else entirely... :)

*Waiting for Vorpal nitpick before posting on FFN*
 
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tinkerbell said:
I never said the fire nation are the good guys. I just said that in the fire nation colonies fire benders and earth benders live peacefully side by side thousands of people not just 1 family.
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I assure you that you most certainly did not say THAT. You said, and I quote, "No, there are benders in the colonies." Which can mean all sorts of things. You also don't believe that Fire Nation should pay for their actions over the course of a century of war. The supposed "surrender" is a damn insult for the lives they ruined.

The nation should have been beaten and taken over, the power elite all jailed and an entirely new administration appointed to completely remove the taint of what they did. Not just give power to the son of the madman that tried to repeat the Air Nomad attack. While leaving in place the entire power structure that supported him and allowing them to keep their war machine intact so they could start attacking again any time they liked.

And NO, I don't feel like looking for the information, it's YOUR statement. When someone says something they are the ones that are required to back it up. I can't just say "Fire Nation was headed by a pacifist that was forced into deciding to commit mass slaughter on Earth Nation EXACTLY like they did to Air Nomads. He's actually good guy, look it up in the wikia."

So you give me the information showing the wonderful life that Earth Benders share with the genocidal Fire Benders. Benders THAT STILL killed off every single air bender and every single southern water tribe bender except 1. Not the citizens but the actual benders.

No real need to though. Obviously my argument is unpopular so I'm dropping it. So I'm not replying anymore about this either way.

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tinkerbell said:
No there are benders in the colonies. There are some comics talking about this.
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I was quoting a different post and forgot about that one that MinorGryph posted. I don't care. I hate Fire Nation and I'm not bothering with this anymore.
 
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