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Bronze Mettle (MCU/DC SI)

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Tachikoma's Aunt said:
And even leaving aside all of that, it is common sense to behave charitably when doing so will not harm you. People tend to be less willing to act against "individuals" with a reputation for selflessness. Plus, helping people feels good. It is rewarding emotionally, if not materially. And personally, I consider emotional gains to be every bit as selfish in their own way as economic, social, or political ones.
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I don't consider doing God's will by going out of your way to be a good person selfish, it's part of what makes us human.
 
Malbutorius said:
I don't consider doing God's will by going out of your way to be a good person selfish, it's part of what makes us human.
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Ah. The notion of "humanity as a value system that was mostly invented in the past two centuries." How cliché.

There are plenty of humans who draw as much or more pleasure from strangling a children to death and raping the corpses as you or I do from aiding other members of our species. Either way, we are all behaving in a manner that is pleasing to us.

The systematic extermination of 150 million people under the Soviet regime was no less human than the massive effort devoted across the planet by all races, creeds, and nations to eradicate small pox and polio. Optimism and pessimism are ultimately two sides of the same coin: ultimately they are both simply philosophies that discard half of all possible outcomes automatically.

And frankly? As terrible as it is, most humans consider the words "human" and "person" to be synonymous, rather than occupying a conceptual relationship similar to "square" and "rectangle," respectively. This necessarily means that most humans believe, at least subconsciously, that anything that is not human is not a person. Therefore, to call someone "inhuman" is generally functionally equivalent to saying "they do not share my belief system, therefore they are not a person."

I do not know about you, but I find that sort of thinking genuinely terrifying.
 
You're putting words into my mouth mate, please don't do that. Besides, over two thousand years ago Jesus was going around saying "Love thy Enemies and do good unto them". Those core beliefs are far, far older than the last two centuries. Christianity was founded on the core concepts of Love and Forgiveness, and those two things are some of the most important things that make Humans better than mere apes that crawled out of the mud once upon a time.

By the way, I agree with you about playing God, what kind of Father wouldn't want us to be like him? To have what he has? We have to play the role, to practice the role before we can actually reach him as an equal after all.
 
I think I technically started it. But I'd hoped we'd left it behind on page 5. Once everyone's made their positions clear, these discussions never go anywhere good. You talk in circles until everyone's sick of talking and sick of each other. We all know what all of us think, and none of us are planning on changing our minds, so what the fuck is the point.

At least, that's the way I see it. Thanks for being cool about my C&D.
 
Xavier Bronze said:
I think I technically started it. But I'd hoped we'd left it behind on page 5. Once everyone's made their positions clear, these discussions never go anywhere good. You talk in circles until everyone's sick of talking and sick of each other. We all know what all of us think, and none of us are planning on changing our minds, so what the fuck is the point.

At least, that's the way I see it. Thanks for being cool about my C&D.
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To me, debates are not about convincing anybody, because such an attempt is generally pointless as most people are rather firm in their beliefs. I debate as a method of learning about my fellow debaters and myself, that's a goal I can actually achieve.
 
Malbutorius said:
To me, debates are not about convincing anybody, because such an attempt is generally pointless as most people are rather firm in their beliefs. I debate as a method of learning about my fellow debaters and myself, that's a goal I can actually achieve.
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That is refreshingly logical. But back on topic: how are the people who were listening in on Xavier and Coulson's little heart to heart going to react? After all, just because they are no longer keeping her in a cell does not mean they are not keeping her under continuous observation. In fact, SHIELD would have to be fairly stupid not to.

And philosophy aside, I think we can all agree that the vast majority of SHIELD's memberships (including Fury) are far less "selfless" than Agent Coulson.

EDIT: Not to mention, given how thorough their infiltration of SHIELD is, at this point Hydra most likely has their eye on the SI for obvious reasons.
 
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Tachikoma's Aunt said:
How are the people who were listening in on Xavier and Coulson's little heart to heart going to react? After all, just because they are no longer keeping her in a cell does not mean they are not keeping her under continuous observation. In fact, SHIELD would have to be fairly stupid not to.

The vast majority of SHIELD's memberships (including Fury) are far less "selfless" than Agent Coulson. Not to mention, given how thorough their infiltration of SHIELD is, at this point Hydra most likely has their eye on the SI for obvious reasons.
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For SHIELD, the most interesting thing was probably Coulson, a high-ranking agent, voluntarily giving details on an extremely recent op, probably without authorization. Everything else, about the Avengers and New York, she's probably mentioned individually before. But the same thing happened earlier with Barton, so I doubt he'll catch much flak for it. For Hydra, the interesting bit was probably learning just what makes Coulson, a high-ranking agent, tick, and finding out about someone he cares about a lot. Very exploitable for future extortion and potential brainwashing.

EDIT:

There's a certain upcoming chapter I want to release on the same day it takes place, albeit 5 years later. But the day is over a week off and I've only got one other chapter before it. Should I write a few more filler chapters for between now and then or should I just skip a few days? And if any of you want filler, feel free to suggest something.
 
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Hmm. If I was Coulson, I wonder if I would've invested in carrying around some kind of anti-eavesdropping gizmo. Do they have those in SHIELD?
 
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Jane Foster: Second Interlude
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    • Jane Foster: Second Interlude​

    "...And I can assure you she is very safe. Now if you'll excuse me."

    I stand and glare at this stupid agent in his stupid suit. Do they really think they can just tell us that she's okay and have us take their word on it? It's been almost a week since they abducted her.

    But the worst part is, they can get away with it. They can just walk off, and there's nothing I can do. They're the government. And I'm just some scientist from Connecticut.

    Erik puts a hand on my shoulder, "Come on, Jane. Let's go home."

    An hour later, I'm pacing back and forth in our partially reconstructed lab, "We know she's at the crater site. We just need a way to get her out."

    "Jane, this is out of our hands. We can't fight SHIELD."

    I snap back, "We have to! She helped us. We have to help her too."

    Darcy says, "We could airdrop in. Hire a skydiving instructor. Officially there's nothing out in that part of the desert. And if they want things kept secret they can't just set up a no-fly zone. The most they could do is redirect autopilot traffic."

    "Getting in isn't the problem. Getting out with Xavier is. They have guards, with guns. They've had time to set up patrols and barricades. They have every advantage and we have…"

    There's an idea. He's not in as good shape as he used to be, but he could still help, certainly.

    I turn to Erik, "We need to call my father."

    "No."

    I pull out my phone, "He could get her out! He's in Bedford. He could get on a plane, be here in just a few hours. Suit up! Get in there and fight, like he used to! Like his father used to. Like I know he has."

    Erik takes my phone out of my hand, "Jane, he's retired! It's not his responsibility."

    He's right. It's not his responsibility. It's mine. She was helping me when she was arrested. I still don't even know what they took her for. It couldn't have been the stolen research, or else they would've taken us too. I don't know what she could've said that would have gotten that kind of reaction. Maybe she had a prior record? Seems unlikely.

    I look around at the equipment we've been able to rebuild, looking for anything that we could repurpose. None of it is really suited for siege or rescue work. It's designed to detect, analyse, and potentially eventually manipulate the kinds of anomalies that brought Xavier here.

    Then I see the whole. The research. The equipment. Twelve years of astrophysics study. My life's work, leading up to this. The greatest breakout in history.

    I start doing the calculations in my head while I reset the particle infuser. No, what am I doing? I don't need to reset it. I just have to set it to graviton flux. We'll need more power than this building can supply...

    I unplug and start rolling up the inadequate power cable. I say with confidence, "We're going to get her out. Do you know how?"

    Erik is looking very stern, but Darcy plays along, "How?"

    I grin, holding the now coiled cable, "We're going to walk in, and walk back out."

    Erik looks like he needs a drink, and once this works I'll buy him one with the prize money, "How are you planning to get past the guards at the door?"

    "We're not taking the door. We're taking a shortcut."

    Erik looks at me, and then at the particle infuser I just reset, and then at the power cable, and then back at me, "You can't be serious."

    "I can. With the new data we've gotten in the last few days, once we get a few more devices up and running we can stage a controlled event!"

    Darcy waves at me to get my attention, "What is it you two are talking about exactly?"

    Erik puts his head in his hands, "She's planning to wormhole Xavier out using equipment made from stone knives and bear skins."

    I nod, with a proud grin, "That's right. We're going to pull her right out of the compound."
     
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    • lostgamer64 said:
    Smart. Dumb. Risky. I love comics.
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    Retsof said:
    So where's GLaDOS?
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    Jane tried pretty much the same thing in the movies. That scene at the end when Heimdal tells Thor Jane is looking for him? The shot of her is her preparing to try and reopen the Bifrost from the other side. It didn't work that time. But she did successfully hijack the Convergence wormholes a few years later in Thor: The Dark World. Something something "quantum foam"? Apparently she won a Nobel Prize for it.
     
    Xavier Bronze said:
    Jane tried pretty much the same thing in the movies. That scene at the end when Heimdal tells Thor Jane is looking for him? The shot of her is her preparing to try and reopen the Bifrost from the other side. It didn't work that time. But she did successfully hijack the Convergence wormholes a few years later in Thor: The Dark World. Something something "quantum foam"? Apparently she won a Nobel Prize for it.
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    So... is Jane going to accidentally retrieve Thor while trying to get you back?
     
    Seed00 said:
    My asking who had a double meaning. Part 1 fulfilled. Part 2: is this a canon character and is he really that badass as to break out the SI from a SHIELD facility?
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    Your Part 2 also has two parts.

    Part 1: Canon? ...Yes. The identity of Jane's father is probably the most indulgently outrageous corner of this massive continuity tangle that Alex's built for us. Even with the hints I've given, we'd both be damned impressed with anyone who could guess it.

    Part 2: Yes, but maybe not quite as in canon. We've given him an upgrade to be more like his father.
     
    Xavier Bronze said:
    Your Part 2 also has two parts.

    Part 1: Canon? ...Yes. The identity of Jane's father is probably the most indulgently outrageous corner of this massive continuity tangle that Alex's built for us. Even with the hints I've given, we'd both be damned impressed with anyone who could guess it.

    Part 2: Yes, but maybe not quite as in canon. We've given him an upgrade to be more like his father.
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    Jane Foster's father is Alexander Luthor? So she's the granddaughter of Lionel Luthor?
     
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