Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Quick question: Were roboutes actions at monarchia actually him pulling Technical compliance to minimise what harm he could, or does Angron just assume that's the case?
We only really have Angron's perspective to go off of as far as this quest's timeline, but as I recall in OTL the Ultramarines did a city-wide evacuation before blowing the place up. Guilliman was still not exactly sympathetic to Lorgar at least in action (Lorgar punched him and Guilliman asked if he was done with his tantrum) but he did at least try to minimize casualties.
 
Granted even within that outline, the Ultramarines dropped down, ordered everyone to evacuate within X days... and then when the protests started and someone threw a bottle they opened fire with heavy bolters.

Guilliman is better than a lot of alternatives, but he's still not exactly what we'd consider a good man.
 
Last edited:
Granted even within that outline, the Ultramarines dropped down, ordered everyone to evacuate within X days... and then when the protests started and someone threw a bottle they opened fire with heavy bolters.

Guilliman is better than a lot of alternatives, but he's still not exactly what we'd consider a good man.
It wasn't easy, he had to math out the value of lost manhours of dead civilians vs the value of lost manhours from super soldiers needing to wash their power armour
the utilitarian calculus showed that each super humans would do more good in that fifteen mins than any civilian would do in the rest of their life.
:thonk::thonk::thonk:
 
Ah. Right. Forgot about that. Mostly recalled the bit where a woman demands an explanation and the Ultramarine actually gives one (from Betrayer I think?).

So not as bad as it could've been but not good by any means either.

At the very least, Angron doesn't see the action as worth breaking his friendship with Guilliman. Which tells me that his attempt to minimize casualties was not completely worthless or that Angron blames Big E more than Bobby G.
 
Lorgar really came out with some fascinating concepts and some incredible actual heresy along this update. I was not expecting his forces to have captured Tchar of all things, this vote and the discussion honestly do leave me mulling on a lot. As an attempt to organize my thoughts independently:

I don't think binding Tchar is compatible with Angron's direction as a character in the quest, nor is it something that fits an impulse of action on his part as opposed to using the god-killing weapon placed in his hands. I feel ultimately Angron wanting to free Ghreer from the pact and release any other exploitative hold the daemons might have on his comrades supersedes - for what he takes as acceptable conduct - the extremely sensible reservations about killing someone who has otherwise definitely helped Angron's interests even with dubious means of contact. Tchar, and by extension, the Chaos God he is a part of, definitely have a lot on their hands that deserves death, but Angron doesn't know that so despite Lorgar's appeal that is not something that should primarily influence his ability to reflect on the options. Being clever enough to doubt Tchar's benevolene, as he has long been doing and condemn it, in the light of the revelations and what has happened, that should.

On the other hand, I can understand the reasoning for letting Tchar go, and that will by his own words also free Angron and the Chainbreakers of those pacts, even if that is not the primary principle behind the decision. Angron is many things and has done many evils, but I am not sure that as he is trying to be now, he would be up for murdering a currently defenseless individual who he has willingly relied upon as an ally before, as opposed to killing in open battle, on terms that are clearer to Angron's personality. Despite suspecting or knowing that his intentions were always foul. There is something ironic, likely unwise, but also potent, about choosing mercy here after speaking of the creation of a god to be righteous and good in defiance of Chaos and the Emperor alike. No one said that good has to be unwilling to fight and kill, especially against an enemy that gives a face to the malice of the universe, but maybe this is not the way to start it, not the note with which to begin writing the songs of this god. Fighting and killing the Chaos Gods, the Emperor? Angron will be up for that, that doesn't necessarily mean this is the right way to declare war.

In practice, Lorgar's rethoric is attractive, Angron is going through a lot, and he's been placed in a position demanding action and offering a solution to one of his recent woes. Maybe his instinct will speak louder than the nuances of the options... but personally, the more interesting choice here is probably letting Tchar go.

[X] Free Tchar
 
I love how this update brought out the best in Lorgar.

In terms of personality his sheer vision and the courage and faith to try and realise it against all odds.

But also in practical terms, his incredible ear and feel for rituals. That is what makes him in canon the propably greatest Sorcerer in the Galaxy. Not psyker, he has nothing on Magnus raw power, but as a Sorcerer he caused the Ruinstorm, the first man-made Warpstorm ever and made it a Segmentum-wide monstrosity and he also turned canon-Angron into a daemon as the centerpiece of the whole effort.

This is the man I trust to create a god from barely-understood principles.
Though I still don't think it will work out like he plans, it will definitly be glorious.
 
Its still funny that Lorgar somehow trapped Tchar in the brief moment we were being dressed down for our antics.

Boy worked FAST.
he had known about that deamon from his own tempter, so maybe he had already been preparing something, either just in case it was needed to help a brother or maybe instead to bring Angron on his project
 
Adhoc vote count started by Npt170 on Sep 23, 2022 at 6:56 PM, finished with 526 posts and 182 votes.
 
[X] Free Tchar
- [X] Angron came to free Ghreer, and Ghreer's freedom is offered to him now. Angron is a warrior, not a murderer. Lorgar wants a god of truth and light and boundless love, and such a god is not made by executing prisoners in their shackles.
 
Back
Top