Black Panther 2

[Cosar]

Gotta love the inclusion of
France as another colonizer.

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It's really fitting. There were parts of the similar subplot in America that I wasn't a fan of(mainly just Julia Louis-Dreyfus's character and how long it took), but that the subplot was there and so explicit was nice.

Though, one extremely minor nitpick:

Spoiler: Spoiler for a minor line 30 minutes in

Early on Ramonda and Shuri have a minor disagreement about the AI, with the Queen mentioning she'd worried about it breaking loose and killing everyone, and Shuri brushed it off as she's been looking at the wrong types of sci fi. Except, Omnicidal robots are actually a thing in this universe. Ultron was a big deal! Come on Mavel, keep track of the continuity!

 

[gyrobot]

Gotta love the inclusion of
France as another colonizer.

But what I loved most among other things was the unexpected (and positive!) Haitian representation.

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The BP franchise has been hitting out of the park lately, especially with the ongoing political tensions going on as well. Sticking it to Francewas necessary

 

[Gul Damar]

America felt remarkably restrained in the movie, in fact the plot happens because they went out of their way not to be like other nations trying to steal from Wakanda and instead find their own Vibranium.

And even when they have good reason to believe the Wakandans are responsible for a direct attack on Americans twice in a row, they held back unless absolutely sure. In RL, they'd already be discussing the location of the 14 McDonalds they will be putting in the Wakandan capital.

 

[Flectarn]

America felt remarkably restrained in the movie, in fact the plot happens because they went out of their way not to be like other nations trying to steal from Wakanda and instead find their own Vibranium.

And even when they have good reason to believe the Wakandans are responsible for a direct attack on Americans twice in a row, they held back unless absolutely sure. In RL, they'd already be discussing the location of the 14 McDonalds they will be putting in the Wakandan capital.

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You also have to factor in that the US isn't quite sure whether or not they can take wakanda.

 

[Gul Damar]

You also have to factor in that the US isn't quite sure whether or not they can take wakanda.

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Hence the diplomatic posturing, given Wakanda's only protection is the shield that can be circumvented by going underwater or applying enough pressure against it like the Outriders, and despite their advanced technology and high spycraft, military-wise they would be steamrolled by the Dutch Army.

 

[htgriffin]

Just got back. Okay, intersection of multiple people with considerable power needing All The Hugs & Twice The Therapy is very much a core plot point, although I do hope someone smacks various figures with a clue about Getting Greedy

 

[Ant221]

Just got back from seeing the film with my mates. It was very good. Namor was a much better antagonist in this film, then Killmonger was in the first film.

 

[Cosar]

Hence the diplomatic posturing, given Wakanda's only protection is the shield that can be circumvented by going underwater or applying enough pressure against it like the Outriders, and despite their advanced technology and high spycraft, military-wise they would be steamrolled by the Dutch Army.

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I'd be careful of assuming this, if only because while Wakanda's military showings haven't really been phenomenal most of that is more due to the medium in my mind than their actual capabilities.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

I'd be careful of assuming this, if only because while Wakanda's military showings haven't really been phenomenal most of that is more due to the medium in my mind than their actual capabilities.

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Yeah, unless it's a historical drama using detailed info about historical battles, real world militaries don't fare much better than Wakanda in terms of showing actual strategy and proper array of tools and vehicles in film.

 

[Gul Damar]

I'd be careful of assuming this, if only because while Wakanda's military showings haven't really been phenomenal most of that is more due to the medium in my mind than their actual capabilities.

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Except we already seen in Infinity War and BP1 that having people with spears really is their primary warfare. In fact they have downgraded their weapons since they used to be able to fire sonic blasts with those spears, and now for some reason they don't despite Nakia easily killing several of Namor's people with her sonic weapon given that stabbing or shooting them with bullets just slows them down.

 

[LordInsane]

I always figured Infinity War can be slightly excused by the fact that BP1 blew up pretty much their entire main air force not that long before IW, and it'd be fairly reasonable for T'Challa to have focused on civilian reconstruction over building up the military.

 

[Cosar]

Except we already seen in Infinity War and BP1 that having people with spears really is their primary warfare. In fact they have downgraded their weapons since they used to be able to fire sonic blasts with those spears, and now for some reason they don't despite Nakia easily killing several of Namor's people with her sonic weapon given that stabbing or shooting them with bullets just slows them down.

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And in infinity war/endgame we see that for the most part Thanos's military could be taken apart by a modern military without much issue. Now, we can assume that this is entirely accurate and that the combined armies and heroes that are present are actually that weak and that the MCU has largely been lying about how important these figures are(especially in terms of various sci-fi forces). Or, we can assume that the narrative that the MCU presents is largely accurate: that the heroes are that powerful and Thanos is a threat, and that the reason that everyone is being an idiot militarily is that none of these engagements are designed by military strategists and it's mainly being designed around specific visuals that also put more importance on melee combat because that makes more opportunities for engaging choreography, especially for groups.

Personally, I'm more inclined to assume that the MCU isn't just lying about Wakanda being a powerhouse(at least in universe).

 

[serra2]

Hell, they even explicitly say that they have not bothered to really weaponize Vibranium outside of what they needed. And even with that they were capable of popping out multiple Iron Man style suits for their people.

 

[Jcogginsa]

Judging film armies by standards of real world armies is foolish.

A film's job is to depict naratively interesting battles, not realistic ones.

One should judge the strength of a fictional military by how they're referenced in the narrative, and in the narrative Wakanda is presented as a powerful fighting force

 

[gyrobot]

America felt remarkably restrained in the movie, in fact the plot happens because they went out of their way not to be like other nations trying to steal from Wakanda and instead find their own Vibranium.

And even when they have good reason to believe the Wakandans are responsible for a direct attack on Americans twice in a row, they held back unless absolutely sure. In RL, they'd already be discussing the location of the 14 McDonalds they will be putting in the Wakandan capital.

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In this reality they had positive examples like Steve and Falcon as living social exemplars rather than just being fictional beings to inspire likes of Everett Ross. while the French so far hadn't had much representations aside from Batroc and now the asshole french military doing what they doing right now irl in upholding their colonialist legacy

 

[hellgodsrus]

Judging film armies by standards of real world armies is foolish.

A film's job is to depict naratively interesting battles, not realistic ones.

One should judge the strength of a fictional military by how they're referenced in the narrative, and in the narrative Wakanda is presented as a powerful fighting force

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I mean - sure, I agree in theory, but in practice if the would-be narratively interesting battle is rendered uninteresting due to lack of use of previously established resources, then it kinda falls apart. I don't think anyone is trying to be all 'there must be perfect military strategy in my popcorn action flick' but given that they've established that the spears can shoot ranged blasts in previous films, maybe have them do it once or twice in this movie - or have someone try and line up a shot but get interrupted, etc.

 

[silentorphan]

‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’ Commands Huge $180M U.S. Opening, $330M Globally

The Marvel Studios sequel hunted down the biggest November launch of all time at the domestic box office. Elsewhere, Steven Spielberg's Oscar contender 'The Fabelmans' opened to strong numbers in New York and Los Angeles.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

The superhero sequel opened to a huge $180 million at the domestic box office to hunt down the biggest November opening of all time and the second-biggest launch of 2022 so far behind fellow Marvel Studios' pic Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness ($187.4 million). And it easily wrested the weekend crown from DC superhero pic Black Adam, now in its fourth weekend. It also commands the third best pandemic era bow, behind the aforementioned Doctor Strange adventure and Spider-Man: No Way Home, which got started with $260 million.

... Until now, the biggest November opening belonged to The Hunger Games: Catching Fire ($158 million).

Overseas, the Marvel and Disney tentpole debuted to $150 million for a global start of $330 million. Europe was strong overall, led by the U.K. ($15 million) and followed by France ($13.7 million). Among all markets, Mexico placed third with $12.8 million, followed by South Korea ($8.9 million) and Brazil ($7.1 million). Wakanda Forever also opened scored the highest opening in history In Nigeria, where the film's African premiere was held.

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[gyrobot]

I am surprised the french audience had so many viewers despite the negative depiction of French as being extremely aggressive and colonial towards Wakanda. But I guess the fear or not getting stream led to more views

 

[Cosar]

I mean - sure, I agree in theory, but in practice if the would-be narratively interesting battle is rendered uninteresting due to lack of use of previously established resources, then it kinda falls apart. I don't think anyone is trying to be all 'there must be perfect military strategy in my popcorn action flick' but given that they've established that the spears can shoot ranged blasts in previous films, maybe have them do it once or twice in this movie - or have someone try and line up a shot but get interrupted, etc.

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Yeah, there are absolutely criticsims about how the various militaries/big battle scenes in the MCU occur. They're honestly often not all that interesting except for a few minor parts(where the heroes get going), and often end up less impressive than I'd hope, especially when dealing with groups that are supposed to be stronger/tougher/faster/etc than other humans.

 

[Teen Spirit]

One thing that bugged me. Shuri and T'Challa both died from the Thanos Snap. That's something pretty solidly acknowledged by implication in the story but it's never addressed in the story properly which is weird considering how heavily death plays a role in the story. Ramonda spent 5 years morning her children and has now lost her son twice. Shuri has died before which should have a large impact on her whole character this movie.

 

[Sabertooth]

Wasn't it said in BP1 that wakandan spears can blow up tanks?

Spoiler

Also, Namor pretty much pulled a Thanos here, where he won at the end. Crippling Wakanda and for all intents and purposes making them his junior partner.

 

[Delirium]

The snap doesn't exist outside of specifically the exact screentime it's directly referenced lol. The MCU has gone full comic book.

 

[serra2]

I mean, it does get referenced, it is why Nakia is in Haiti for most of the film. They got snapped, she didn't, and she kind of left to grieve and move on.

 

[all fictions]

If the Snap isn't relevant to a story, it doesn't have to be referenced, but this claim that it is treated as irrelevant is a weird claim I have seen going around lately and always confuse me (sometimes followed by accusations of soft retcon for some reason?). It was central to the plots or characters of Far from Home, Wandavision, F&WS, Eternals, and No Way Home, and maybe some other instances I forgot. That it wasn't addressed in every property is not a mark against it or that it's becoming full comic book, whatever that means.

Like, the invasion of New York wasn't central to every movies of Phase 2 either, nor was Ultron and Sokovia for everything in Phase 3.

 

[silentorphan]

Box Office: ‘Black Panther: Wakanda Forever’ Rules With $67.3 Million, ‘She Said’ Flops With $2.2 Million Debut

Disney’s comic book sequel “Black Panther: Wakanda Forever” extended its reign at the domestic box office. In its second weekend of release, the 30th installment in the Marvel Cin…

variety.com

... In its second weekend of release, the 30th installment in the Marvel Cinematic Universe collected $67.3 million between Friday and Sunday.

"Wakanda Forever" ... has generated $288 million in North America and $546.3 million globally to date. The film's 63% drop was steeper than expected. Industry sources had expected a sophomore weekend of more than $70 million in ticket sales.

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