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Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2)

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[] Independence from Kuojah, and policies that are less tied to him.
[] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.

I think that the problem with these two offers is that, as people here said, "we were going to do these anyway". If Qing'lu knows or even suspects this, then promising to do them seems rather.... hollow. "You want me to do something for you in return for you doing something that you were going to do anyway?"
 
[X] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[X] Southland Policy.
-[X] Pet projects.
[X] Prioritize Qing'lu's interests in other fields, such as his ties to Hari-Su merchants and other such elements. Actions outside of the sphere of military matters, in other words.
[X] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.

[X] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
[X] Opened doors with Hari-Su and Nestirin political figures.
[X] Support for one type of court action.
-[X] Diplomacy
[X] Different information: What does he know and think of his fellows? The other four leading generals are each very important men to know about.

I'll go with this. The main option I've left off is the envoy choice, and that's largely due to the already stacked bonuses on it and the fact that the court action boost should aid the actions already taken to support it regardless. It also has the benefit that most of the actions in my plan had a diplomacy tag, so it should be a general boost. The information about the generals should also be of benefit towards it, or if not should benefit Kiralo's competency in the job should he get it.

I've also left off the cavalry reform option as it's been mentioned that any reform of the army would take too long to matter for a civil war, so if it's our goal (and it likely will be in the future) we can pursue it when we can.

At lot of the other actions are interrelated with Hari-Su and are taken to make it more likely they favor the Emperor or at least neutrality, which we'd need anyway as they would limit Hari-Os's ability to act and it would make bringing those foreign mercenaries being recruited into the Empire harder if they are being recruited for Prince Jinjai (which isn't assured yet).
 
Neptune said:
[X] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[X] Southland Policy.
-[X] Pet projects.
[X] Prioritize Qing'lu's interests in other fields, such as his ties to Hari-Su merchants and other such elements. Actions outside of the sphere of military matters, in other words.
[X] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.

[X] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
[X] Opened doors with Hari-Su and Nestirin political figures.
[X] Support for one type of court action.
-[X] Diplomacy
[X] Different information: What does he know and think of his fellows? The other four leading generals are each very important men to know about.

I'll go with this. The main option I've left off is the envoy choice, and that's largely due to the already stacked bonuses on it and the fact that the court action boost should aid the actions already taken to support it regardless. It also has the benefit that most of the actions in my plan had a diplomacy tag, so it should be a general boost. The information about the generals should also be of benefit towards it, or if not should benefit Kiralo's competency in the job should he get it.

I've also left off the cavalry reform option as it's been mentioned that any reform of the army would take too long to matter for a civil war, so if it's our goal (and it likely will be in the future) we can pursue it when we can.

At lot of the other actions are interrelated with Hari-Su and are taken to make it more likely they favor the Emperor or at least neutrality, which we'd need anyway as they would limit Hari-Os's ability to act and it would make bringing those foreign mercenaries being recruited into the Empire harder if they are being recruited for Prince Jinjai (which isn't assured yet).
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Interesting. Out of curiosity, why didn't you promise independence from Kuojah? I can think of reasons, but I would like to hear your reasoning.
 
Random Member said:
Interesting. Out of curiosity, why didn't you promise independence from Kuojah? I can think of reasons, but I would like to hear your reasoning.
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It's a dangerous territory to go given Kuojah is effectively the regent of the Empire and especially so given the impact in the political sphere this would have, and they already dislike one another which may worsen things for us depending on how he chooses to use that independence. There is also a reason generals tend to be kept on relatively tight leashes and this option allows him much greater free reign, so it's not something that should be picked without a great deal of caution first.

It's also the option that has Kiralo promise something that another must deliver on, something that may weaken them which is being brought up due to the characters relation to them. It is dangerous territory to tread, especially when the character may not have all the information about why something is happening or not happening.
 
Okay, I'm convinced. I'm okay with Neptune's plan and since my plan isn't going to win anyway, I'll just throw my support behind it.

[X] Neptune
 
Some comments on Neptune's plan.

The roll to become Envoy is the most important thing decided this turn and maybe in the whole quest so far. If we fail at that we will have promised Hari-Bueli support we can't deliver, which will piss them off. We can't afford that. So gaining Qing'lu's support in our bid to become Envoy is vital.

Gaining access to political figures in Nestirin and Hari-Su is something I can agree with. But if we promise to support Qing'lu's Southland policies no matter what they are, we basically put our resulting influence at his disposal. Nice for Qing'lu, I guess, but not something I am willing to do.
 
Well, I really want that support with Hari-Su's political figures, so I thought of a few plans that include it and that people might support.

[] Plan 1
[] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[] Southland Policy.
-[] Pet projects.
[] Prioritize Qing'lu's interests in other fields, such as his ties to Hari-Su merchants and other such elements. Actions outside of the sphere of military matters, in other words.
[] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.

[] Support for Kiralo's bid to be the Envoy.
[] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
[] Opened doors with Hari-Su and Nestirin political figures.
[] Different information: What does he know and think of his fellows? The other four leading generals are each very important men to know about.

Like Neptune's plan, only we ask for direct support for our bid to become Envoy instead of support for Diplomatic Court actions.

[] Plan 2
[] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[] Pet projects.
[] Prioritize Qing'lu's interests in other fields, such as his ties to Hari-Su merchants and other such elements. Actions outside of the sphere of military matters, in other words.
[] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.

[] Support for Kiralo's bid to be the Envoy.
[] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
[] Opened doors with Hari-Su and Nestirin political figures.

No Southland Policy, but no info about the generals as well. Unfortunate, but we have to give up something and I see the other three demands as more important.

[] Plan 3
[] Independence from Kuojah, and policies that are less tied to him.
[] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[] Pet projects.
[] Prioritize Qing'lu's interests in other fields, such as his ties to Hari-Su merchants and other such elements. Actions outside of the sphere of military matters, in other words.
[] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.

[] Support for Kiralo's bid to be the Envoy.
[] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
[] Opened doors with Hari-Su and Nestirin political figures.
[] Different information: What does he know and think of his fellows? The other four leading generals are each very important men to know about.

Still no Southland policy, but instead of giving up info on the generals, we promise independence.

[] Plan Gamble That We Aren't Asking Too Much
[] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[] Pet projects.
[] Prioritize Qing'lu's interests in other fields, such as his ties to Hari-Su merchants and other such elements. Actions outside of the sphere of military matters, in other words.
[] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.

[] Support for Kiralo's bid to be the Envoy.
[] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
[] Opened doors with Hari-Su and Nestirin political figures.
[] Different information: What does he know and think of his fellows? The other four leading generals are each very important men to know about.

I don't think that anyone minds promising what this plan does, but I'm almost certain we're asking for too much for what we give in return.
 
Vote Tally : Original - Fantasy - Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2) | Page 55 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.5

[X] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
No. of Votes: 9
Erandil
Gingganz
mori
Muer'ci
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand
veekie
Zeitgeist Blue

[X] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.
No. of Votes: 9
Erandil
Gingganz
mori
Muer'ci
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand
veekie
Zeitgeist Blue

-[X] Pet projects.
No. of Votes: 7
Erandil
Gingganz
Muer'ci
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand
veekie

[X] Independence from Kuojah, and policies that are less tied to him.
No. of Votes: 6
Erandil
Gingganz
mori
Muer'ci
veekie
Zeitgeist Blue

[X] Support for Kiralo's bid to be the Envoy.
No. of Votes: 6
Erandil
Gingganz
mori
Muer'ci
veekie
Zeitgeist Blue

[X] Support for any cavalry reforms Kiralo attempts. He is the person to ask about that.
No. of Votes: 6
Erandil
Gingganz
mori
Muer'ci
veekie
Zeitgeist Blue

[X] Different information: What does he know and think of his fellows? The other four leading generals are each very important men to know about.
No. of Votes: 6
Erandil
Gingganz
Muer'ci
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand

[X] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
No. of Votes: 6
Zeitgeist Blue
mori
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand
veekie

-[X] Southland Policy
No. of Votes: 5
Zeitgeist Blue
mori
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand

[X] Prioritize Qing'lu's interests in other fields, such as his ties to Hari-Su merchants and other such elements. Actions outside of the sphere of military matters, in other words.
No. of Votes: 3
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand

[X] Opened doors with Hari-Su and Nestirin political figures.
No. of Votes: 3
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand

[X] Support for one type of court action.
No. of Votes: 3
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand

-[X] Diplomacy
No. of Votes: 3
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand

Total No. of Voters: 9

Vote Tally : Original - Fantasy - Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2) | Page 55 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.5

[X] Independence from Kuojah, and policies that are less tied to him.
[X] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[X] Pet projects.
[X] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.
[X] Support for Kiralo's bid to be the Envoy.
[X] Support for any cavalry reforms Kiralo attempts. He is the person to ask about that.
[X] Different information: What does he know and think of his fellows? The other four leading generals are each very important men to know about.
No. of Votes: 3
Erandil
Gingganz
Muer'ci

[X] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[X] Southland Policy.
-[X] Pet projects.
[X] Prioritize Qing'lu's interests in other fields, such as his ties to Hari-Su merchants and other such elements. Actions outside of the sphere of military matters, in other words.
[X] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.
[X] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
[X] Opened doors with Hari-Su and Nestirin political figures.
[X] Support for one type of court action.
-[X] Diplomacy
[X] Different information: What does he know and think of his fellows? The other four leading generals are each very important men to know about.
No. of Votes: 3
Neptune
Random Member
Terrabrand

[X] Independence from Kuojah, and policies that are less tied to him.
[X] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[X] Southland Policy
[X] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.
[X] Support for Kiralo's bid to be the Envoy.
[X] Support for any cavalry reforms Kiralo attempts. He is the person to ask about that.
[X] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
No. of Votes: 2
Zeitgeist Blue
mori

[X] Independence from Kuojah, and policies that are less tied to him.
[X] The pay in arrears is still a major issue to Qing'lu, even if it has been carefully defused. Discuss going further with that.
[X] Support his policies to the Emperor and in the Council regarding…
-[X] Pet projects.
[X] Support for Kiralo's bid to be the Envoy.
[X] Support for any cavalry reforms Kiralo attempts. He is the person to ask about that.
[X] Support for getting his mercenaries across that damn border.
No. of Votes: 1
veekie

Total No. of Voters: 9
 
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The Laurent said:
No. It is not a metaphor. Of course, it's a special ritual/ceremony, most often practiced around the end of a year. Not a daily thing. You aren't required to do it.

*Makes chicken noises*
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Csirit is Indiana Jones' worst nightmare I tell you. We treat snakes like Egyptians treat cats, except cats are furry and the worst thing the average feline can do is give you the cold shoulder.

Say, their fangs are pulled out aren't they? I'd like to keep one as a pet.
 
Zeitgeist Blue said:
Csirit is Indiana Jones' worst nightmare I tell you. We treat snakes like Egyptians treat cats, except cats are furry and the worst thing the average feline can do is give you the cold shoulder.

Say, their fangs are pulled out aren't they? I'd like to keep one as a pet.
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You should have seen the ancient Xissandians.

You know, the ones that the Iritans committed mass-scale genocide and cultural destruction on, slaughtering their children and women and burning every scroll until theirs was (almost) a lost language.

They absolutely adored snakes. They even became snek people, many of them, and worst of all, other than the 'worship the Emperor' thing, they had mostly the same religion as Irit except for this odd emphasis on snakes.

Of course, Csirit is far past the barbarities of such people, which is totally why their own interest in snakes had nothing to do with Xissand or stealing or appropriating bits of their culture and religion...
 
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