- Pronouns
- They/Them
Okay, so, first off I'm going to do the boring thing. Well, not boring, but the army review. I'll roll that, though I'm pretty sure it'll pass. Probably get it up on Wednesday? We'll see.
Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2)
- Thread starter The Laurent
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Pronouns
- They/Them
o.o. Writing up military info is tiring. And also reminds me of just how much Kiralo has let drop.
*coughs* Hari-Os *coughs*.
Of course, he was pretty busy, but the military situation really is complicated to write up in general. Update on Wednesday, and then I'll get to doing the 'actual' turn, like with narrative instead of info-dumps.
*coughs* Hari-Os *coughs*.
Of course, he was pretty busy, but the military situation really is complicated to write up in general. Update on Wednesday, and then I'll get to doing the 'actual' turn, like with narrative instead of info-dumps.
Turn 5--Military Forces Results
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Military Forces of the Emperor--
Standing military forces are of course far smaller than what they could gather up to. In fact, they exist and rely on a system of training and recruitment at all levels in which the Imperial Army is merely the knot at the center. Governors and Nobles were both allowed to and required to train and raise soldiers, and at the provincial level, the Imperial Military had only a somewhat supervisory role day to day.
Thus the army is instead focused in Csrae, with about 3/5ths of its numbers in that one province, the only one without a Governor, and the rest spread out in a series of military bases that serve as the backbone and gathering spots in any war.
The primary unit is the basic spearman, similar to what would be levied en mass in the case of a war, but better trained, more professional, and generally tougher and more important initiated into the secret names, a process that often meant that military service was hereditary.
The next largest were the Hanin, and unlike any of the others, these were truly elite, and quite skilled. It was an honor to be part of the Imperial Hanin, and thus those who are tend to be dedicated, strong, and very well compensated.
The light cavalry is all but nonexistent, or rather it is fused in a way that is grotesque and baffling to Kiralo's standards with the imperial messenger service. They share the same horses, bred from the same studs, as if there aren't a few other things that might...keep it together, Kiralo, don't blow up yet. It gets worse. They're untrained entirely in most major combat maneuvers, they have very little experience, their bowmanship is rumored to be shoddy (something Kiralo could examine/help with...you just haven't taken the actions, or unlocked them, though Ride Along Friends will help), and most of all there is very little teamwork. At best they serve as decent scouts for an army, but as either a part of a battle or as a vital part of 'foraging' they are rather pitiful.
Heavy cavalry is composed entirely of volunteers, of sorts. Sons of noblemen and the like wishing to be dashing, but it is not a respected field, veering to close to the despised Tarnarins.
Logistically, the army is horrifically slow despite the stored up depots, relying primarily on a baggage train that is not particularly fast and could use a few innovations in how its spirits are used. As it is, any army is going to crawl, already a problem considering just how large Csirit is.
Morale is decent at the moment, surprisingly.
Of the total of fifty-thousand standing troops under the direct rule of the Emperor through various channels to the Council of Generals who as much organize the bureaucracy that would set an army in motion as the army itself, thirty thousand are in Csrae the province, with a full third of those based in Csrae the city.
Units--
Spearmen
Skill level: Professional
Morale: Steady
Mobility: Horrible
Cost: Medium-low
Light skirmishers:
Skill Level: Inexperienced
Morale: Steady
Mobility: Mediocre
Cost: Low
Hanin
Skill Level: Elite
Morale: Great
Mobility: Average
Cost: High
Light Cavalry:
Skill Level: Wretched
Morale: Mediocre
Mobility: Average
Cost: Almost none, that's the only good thing…
Heavy Cavalry
Skill Level: Green
Morale: Great
Mobility: Average
Cost: Self-financing.
*****
Levies--
Each Province, on call by the Emperor, is required to bring a certain minimum of troops. This number can and does often change from levy to levy, but is usually based on population census data, and reasonable estimates of what they *could* reasonably bring at a minimum. Obviously, no Emperor wants to demand troops that cannot be raised, as that is a very good way to make enemies of allies, since to refuse the orders of an Emperor on such a matter is treason. So it's a balancing act between too much asked and too little.
Additionally, the numbers given represent all men requested, and the majority are likely to be green or only lightly seasoned, despite efforts to provide some level of training for villagers in some cases. That means that many of them might be cooks, border guards, patrols, caravaners maintaining the supply chain, or otherwise non-combatants, and thus only a portion called up will see combat.
All that said, the system has worked in the past.
Additionally, each Governor, and each noble beneath the Governor, may keep a certain number of troops. For the nobles, this is a relatively trivial number, for they are expected to make do, but for Governors these tend to number in the thousands, or in the case of Hari-Bueli and Hari-Os, both beset by foreign invasions, the low ten thousands. These are included in the muster totals, and would normally become the strong core of any army raised.
*****
Basrat:
A rich province that has fallen into some poverty thanks to the policies of the Emperor, this is one where the troops are quite unlikely to be fighting with, rather than against, the Emperor in any coming war.
Basrat is known for its bold soldiers, and indeed there seem to be many noblemen flocking to the undeclared banners of Prince Jinhai, and thus any army gathered is likely to be rather heavier on elite units than it should be, and as Jinhai has turned his own small private army, and the Governor's army, into skilled tools for his own wars against the Sea-Raiders and bandits, it is likely that they will hold far more strongly than expected.
Traits: Wealthy, High Morale, Strong Noble Presence, Prince's Retinue
Basrat Population: 12 million
Minimum Required Levy: 100k
Expected Levy: None, they're in Prince Jinhai's camp all the way.
Maximum Levy: If truly called by Prince Jinhai, and if they truly answer with the enthusiasm that they might...maybe as many as four hundred thousand troops, though that would strip the province all but bare in a way that would be absolutely devastating. But if it is war for the imperial seat...
Csrae:
The province of Emperors, Csrae is very wealthy, and the second most populous province in the empire. While still quite rural compared to Hari-Os, it has strong population centers, and its lack of a Governor means that all know that the eyes of the Emperor are more directly on them.
Soldiers raised tend to have a stronger than average morale, and here at least the efforts to train soldiers across generations and prepare the way has met somewhat fertile ground. Additionally, the wealth means that the troops are unlikely to be poorly equipped.
Finally, there is the matter that the Imperial Mage Academy is right around the corner. On the other hand, the fact that the Imperial Court is right there does create a lot of political pressure in general.
Traits: Strong Loyalty, Some Training Acquired, Equipped Decently, Good Local Logistics, Magical Advantage, Too Many Chiefs
Csrae Population: 17 million (one thing to remember...women aren't allowed to fight, which sorta cuts the pool in half right at the start)
Minimum required levy: 150k*
Minimum expected (based on Kiralo's gut analysis) levy: 200k
Maximum Levy: 450k
*Remember, not all fighting troops.
Hari-Bueli:
Currently harried by losses on the border, Hari-Bueli is unlikely to be a major force turning the tide of the war, but their soldiers are experienced with skirmisher warfare and also countering it, and its people are hardy, at least those who are loyal, with some knowledge of Bueli spirits that don't answer easily to the Csirit.
Kiralo's careful analysis is that if they fall into the camp of Prince Jinhai, they will stay relatively close to Hari-Bueli. But even if all they do is tie up Xissand and Yeadalt, forcing them to defend rather than gather and send out troops, that would be enough to spell disaster for the north unless Hari-Nat came through in a big way. And the troops lost to dealing with that might be enough to tip the balance in a contest.
Traits: War-weary, A Little Special Magic, Skilled Skirmishers, Skilled Counter-Skirmishers
Population: 5.5 million
Minimum Required Levy: 55k
Minimum Expected: ...40k, maybe? Possibly less. Bueli is now a bleeding wound that needs to be patched.
Maximum possible, or at least likely: 100k
Hari-Os:
The elephant in the room. Kiralo has not done anything, among all that he might have done, to try to keep Hari-Os on the side of the Emperor, hasn't even begun negotiations, hasn't tried to apply pressure, and has largely been too busy to deal with them in any way. That means that at the moment, the third most populated province in the Empire, and most likely the wealthiest, is currently leaning heavily towards Prince Jinhai, and might be a total loss.
Its corrupt merchant groups and all but unnecessary Governor all seem to know which way the wind is blowing, and it is at Prince Jinhai's back. Their wealth means that they are likely able to pay quite well, and there are always men on the take. Their armies are likely to be large and well-equipped, with the city-guard of the many powerful cities as the backbone, though the loyalty of these men, let alone the peasant hinterland that still makes up the strong majority of the population, is just a little suspect.
Traits: Rich, Unsteady loyalties, but great pay. Best navy, if that matters. Smuggling port. Strong civic spirit.
Population: 16.5 million
Required Levy: 125k
Expected Levy: ???, possibly none. It's almost a lost cause, by now...
Maximum Levy: 300k
Hari-Su:
Another province on the border of something, this one is divided. It is up in the air, and Kiralo needs to grab it. The cavalry would be vital, and the fact is that its location next to Hari-Os could be a threat and a tool for at least trying to make it so that southern Hari-Os thinks about what it is doing and thinks otherwise.
Currently it is very divided, but with its borders secure, it will likely play a large role in any war to come.
Traits: Mediocre Cavalry (By Southlander Standards, So About Ten Steps Up), Fractious, Secure Borders.
Population: 8 million
Required Levy:80k
Minimum Levy: 50k
Maximum Levy: 150k
Hari-Nat:
Something of a wild-card, their Governor is grieving his son's presumed death, and their locaiton means that they have often stood to the side when war came and sorted it out afterwards, picking the winning side and sticking with them. But they are a hardy people, and a strong one, and more than that, if Hari-Bueli acts, it is only Hari-Nat that can counteract them.
While they are known for their spearman, they also have heavy infantry that is rather more substantial than most, and the Governor's elite guard, while absolutely nothing compared to, say, Bueli's elite infantry (not that any would admit it), is nothing to sneeze at. A strong infantry and a cavalry that is sub-par but at least not non-existent combine to make it a tempting addition to any army.
Order now, supplies limited.
Traits: Slow and Steady, Strong Arms, Strong Armor; Cold Doesn't Bother Me Anyways; Some Cavalry
Population: 6 million
Minimum Required: 60k
Minimum Expected: 60k
Maximum Expected: 100-150k, it really is up in the air, since they often don't get involved.
Hirand:
The most populated of the provinces, and the most agriculturally potent, they are somewhat rich, or at least their merchants are, but most of its population toils in clustered villages, on the best land in the world, bringing forth wealth for others to exploit.
Troops raised here are likely to be of relatively low morale and skill, but holy shit are there a lot of them, though Hirand itself has always suffered from internal divsions, and it is quite possible that it might well split in half between the two factions (one faction being, you know, the Emperor himself and the other an upstart, but nevermind that) based on phyiscal proximity. The Governor is something of a non-entity, but if he can be made to understand just what is at stake, perhaps…
Though there is the concerns of the harvests to worry about, that has always kept so many of their peasants tethered to the land, and thus been the only limit to their vast armies.
Population: 19 million strong.
Minimum Required: 175k
Minimum Expected: 70-80k
Maximum Possible: 600k
Irit:
Irit, the valley where an empire was born. But now it is torn by war, and its people ruined by it, and even if the bandits are put down, its contributions will be far less than they might be. And if it is not put down at all, their might be no troops from them at all, from one of the few groups that Csrae can count on to stand with it.
It is...troubling, to say the least.
Trait: Torn to Pieces, Exhausted, Lots of Priests, Godly Magic; Monks...whose fists are bare and whose hands are open.
Population: 9 million
Minimum Required: 50k
Minimum Possible: 5-10k, if that.
Maximum possible: 200k
Nestirin:
A powerful and strange province whose well of spirits and odd lore shape their character, their troops, while normal, are often backed by far more magical support, some of it outright bizarre, then most can expect to have at their back. Even their soldiers are skilled in the lore of the wells, and they have an extraordinary bond with the land and its spirits, being incredibly difficult to beat on their home ground. It is said that it took three times three wars before the lords of Nestirin bent their knee to the Emperor, in days past, after the second founding.
Currently they are leaning towards Csrae, and Kuojah is likely laboring to keep it that way, since they are next door to both Basrat and, if interference is necessary, Irit.
Traits: Magical As Shit, Untouched By War.
Population: 8.5 million
Minimum Levy:85k
Minimum Expected: 90k
Maximum: 220k
Rerin:
The spine of the empire, it rests against the wastes and has the largest range of mountains that are within the empire, rather than a border. Their people are hardy, and there are rumors of dark things in the forests that, together with the mountains, define the provincial stereotype. It is true that they used to have axe-wielding soldiers, and it is also quite true that as scouts, they're above average by most accounts, but right now the question is whether they can spare the men and attention from their quite pressing future succession crisis.
If they can, their troops will be vital for gathering together an army capable of resisting any lightning push on the capital.
Traits: An Axe to Grind, Honest Woodsman, Ore-dinary, Something in the Forests
Population: 6.5 million
Min Levy: 125k
Min Expected: 100k
Maximum Possible: 200k
Yeadalt
Currently fearing revolt, and more than that, not trusting the majority of their population, they are the smallest province in terms of actual population that counts as people and, under current rules, can bear arms in the army. In past times, some were able to in some circumstances, but at present these minority groups are barred, and Yeadalt itself is something of an armed camp. Thyis does mean that they have a large and skilled core, but there is only so much that can be done, really.
Still, their soldiers would be quite welcome, to say the least, in this man's army.
Population: 1.5 million Csiritans, too many heathens.
Minimum Required Levy: 25k
Minimum Levy: 25k...less if they're trying to guard themselves from Hari-Bueli
Maximum Levy: 60k
Xissand:
Once the home to a sick and disgusting bunch of heretics whose King defied the Emperor whose divine right it was to rule them by a shared past, now that they have long since been wiped out, its citiizens are Imperial as any other. But the northern province, bordered by Hari-Nat, prison-state Yeadalt, and Hari-Bueli, still has the legacies of this former connection.
Spirits still linger whose nature is strange and sometimes hostiles, and while most of the ruins that are in any way visible have been explored, there is still more that has been buried or lost in the ravages of time, and strange hints of a past a little different than expected.
As it stands, Xissand seems to be mostly loyal, at least at the moment. And they're always ready to prove it.
Population: 8 million
Min Levy:60k
Minimum Expected Levy: 90k
Max Levy: 160k
*****
Whew. There's other information, in a way, but I hope this was helpful. I am now opening up questions, and if it's something that Kiralo would have learned, but that I hadn't put down because holy shit, then I'll answer it.
This is both because it's important and to buy time for the next update which will take a little time.
Note, there are a lot of questions that can be answered, but I wasn't sure I could get through answering every possible question immediately, so...ask away!
Standing military forces are of course far smaller than what they could gather up to. In fact, they exist and rely on a system of training and recruitment at all levels in which the Imperial Army is merely the knot at the center. Governors and Nobles were both allowed to and required to train and raise soldiers, and at the provincial level, the Imperial Military had only a somewhat supervisory role day to day.
Thus the army is instead focused in Csrae, with about 3/5ths of its numbers in that one province, the only one without a Governor, and the rest spread out in a series of military bases that serve as the backbone and gathering spots in any war.
The primary unit is the basic spearman, similar to what would be levied en mass in the case of a war, but better trained, more professional, and generally tougher and more important initiated into the secret names, a process that often meant that military service was hereditary.
The next largest were the Hanin, and unlike any of the others, these were truly elite, and quite skilled. It was an honor to be part of the Imperial Hanin, and thus those who are tend to be dedicated, strong, and very well compensated.
The light cavalry is all but nonexistent, or rather it is fused in a way that is grotesque and baffling to Kiralo's standards with the imperial messenger service. They share the same horses, bred from the same studs, as if there aren't a few other things that might...keep it together, Kiralo, don't blow up yet. It gets worse. They're untrained entirely in most major combat maneuvers, they have very little experience, their bowmanship is rumored to be shoddy (something Kiralo could examine/help with...you just haven't taken the actions, or unlocked them, though Ride Along Friends will help), and most of all there is very little teamwork. At best they serve as decent scouts for an army, but as either a part of a battle or as a vital part of 'foraging' they are rather pitiful.
Heavy cavalry is composed entirely of volunteers, of sorts. Sons of noblemen and the like wishing to be dashing, but it is not a respected field, veering to close to the despised Tarnarins.
Logistically, the army is horrifically slow despite the stored up depots, relying primarily on a baggage train that is not particularly fast and could use a few innovations in how its spirits are used. As it is, any army is going to crawl, already a problem considering just how large Csirit is.
Morale is decent at the moment, surprisingly.
Of the total of fifty-thousand standing troops under the direct rule of the Emperor through various channels to the Council of Generals who as much organize the bureaucracy that would set an army in motion as the army itself, thirty thousand are in Csrae the province, with a full third of those based in Csrae the city.
Units--
Spearmen
Skill level: Professional
Morale: Steady
Mobility: Horrible
Cost: Medium-low
Light skirmishers:
Skill Level: Inexperienced
Morale: Steady
Mobility: Mediocre
Cost: Low
Hanin
Skill Level: Elite
Morale: Great
Mobility: Average
Cost: High
Light Cavalry:
Skill Level: Wretched
Morale: Mediocre
Mobility: Average
Cost: Almost none, that's the only good thing…
Heavy Cavalry
Skill Level: Green
Morale: Great
Mobility: Average
Cost: Self-financing.
*****
Levies--
Each Province, on call by the Emperor, is required to bring a certain minimum of troops. This number can and does often change from levy to levy, but is usually based on population census data, and reasonable estimates of what they *could* reasonably bring at a minimum. Obviously, no Emperor wants to demand troops that cannot be raised, as that is a very good way to make enemies of allies, since to refuse the orders of an Emperor on such a matter is treason. So it's a balancing act between too much asked and too little.
Additionally, the numbers given represent all men requested, and the majority are likely to be green or only lightly seasoned, despite efforts to provide some level of training for villagers in some cases. That means that many of them might be cooks, border guards, patrols, caravaners maintaining the supply chain, or otherwise non-combatants, and thus only a portion called up will see combat.
All that said, the system has worked in the past.
Additionally, each Governor, and each noble beneath the Governor, may keep a certain number of troops. For the nobles, this is a relatively trivial number, for they are expected to make do, but for Governors these tend to number in the thousands, or in the case of Hari-Bueli and Hari-Os, both beset by foreign invasions, the low ten thousands. These are included in the muster totals, and would normally become the strong core of any army raised.
*****
Basrat:
A rich province that has fallen into some poverty thanks to the policies of the Emperor, this is one where the troops are quite unlikely to be fighting with, rather than against, the Emperor in any coming war.
Basrat is known for its bold soldiers, and indeed there seem to be many noblemen flocking to the undeclared banners of Prince Jinhai, and thus any army gathered is likely to be rather heavier on elite units than it should be, and as Jinhai has turned his own small private army, and the Governor's army, into skilled tools for his own wars against the Sea-Raiders and bandits, it is likely that they will hold far more strongly than expected.
Traits: Wealthy, High Morale, Strong Noble Presence, Prince's Retinue
Basrat Population: 12 million
Minimum Required Levy: 100k
Expected Levy: None, they're in Prince Jinhai's camp all the way.
Maximum Levy: If truly called by Prince Jinhai, and if they truly answer with the enthusiasm that they might...maybe as many as four hundred thousand troops, though that would strip the province all but bare in a way that would be absolutely devastating. But if it is war for the imperial seat...
Csrae:
The province of Emperors, Csrae is very wealthy, and the second most populous province in the empire. While still quite rural compared to Hari-Os, it has strong population centers, and its lack of a Governor means that all know that the eyes of the Emperor are more directly on them.
Soldiers raised tend to have a stronger than average morale, and here at least the efforts to train soldiers across generations and prepare the way has met somewhat fertile ground. Additionally, the wealth means that the troops are unlikely to be poorly equipped.
Finally, there is the matter that the Imperial Mage Academy is right around the corner. On the other hand, the fact that the Imperial Court is right there does create a lot of political pressure in general.
Traits: Strong Loyalty, Some Training Acquired, Equipped Decently, Good Local Logistics, Magical Advantage, Too Many Chiefs
Csrae Population: 17 million (one thing to remember...women aren't allowed to fight, which sorta cuts the pool in half right at the start)
Minimum required levy: 150k*
Minimum expected (based on Kiralo's gut analysis) levy: 200k
Maximum Levy: 450k
*Remember, not all fighting troops.
Hari-Bueli:
Currently harried by losses on the border, Hari-Bueli is unlikely to be a major force turning the tide of the war, but their soldiers are experienced with skirmisher warfare and also countering it, and its people are hardy, at least those who are loyal, with some knowledge of Bueli spirits that don't answer easily to the Csirit.
Kiralo's careful analysis is that if they fall into the camp of Prince Jinhai, they will stay relatively close to Hari-Bueli. But even if all they do is tie up Xissand and Yeadalt, forcing them to defend rather than gather and send out troops, that would be enough to spell disaster for the north unless Hari-Nat came through in a big way. And the troops lost to dealing with that might be enough to tip the balance in a contest.
Traits: War-weary, A Little Special Magic, Skilled Skirmishers, Skilled Counter-Skirmishers
Population: 5.5 million
Minimum Required Levy: 55k
Minimum Expected: ...40k, maybe? Possibly less. Bueli is now a bleeding wound that needs to be patched.
Maximum possible, or at least likely: 100k
Hari-Os:
The elephant in the room. Kiralo has not done anything, among all that he might have done, to try to keep Hari-Os on the side of the Emperor, hasn't even begun negotiations, hasn't tried to apply pressure, and has largely been too busy to deal with them in any way. That means that at the moment, the third most populated province in the Empire, and most likely the wealthiest, is currently leaning heavily towards Prince Jinhai, and might be a total loss.
Its corrupt merchant groups and all but unnecessary Governor all seem to know which way the wind is blowing, and it is at Prince Jinhai's back. Their wealth means that they are likely able to pay quite well, and there are always men on the take. Their armies are likely to be large and well-equipped, with the city-guard of the many powerful cities as the backbone, though the loyalty of these men, let alone the peasant hinterland that still makes up the strong majority of the population, is just a little suspect.
Traits: Rich, Unsteady loyalties, but great pay. Best navy, if that matters. Smuggling port. Strong civic spirit.
Population: 16.5 million
Required Levy: 125k
Expected Levy: ???, possibly none. It's almost a lost cause, by now...
Maximum Levy: 300k
Hari-Su:
Another province on the border of something, this one is divided. It is up in the air, and Kiralo needs to grab it. The cavalry would be vital, and the fact is that its location next to Hari-Os could be a threat and a tool for at least trying to make it so that southern Hari-Os thinks about what it is doing and thinks otherwise.
Currently it is very divided, but with its borders secure, it will likely play a large role in any war to come.
Traits: Mediocre Cavalry (By Southlander Standards, So About Ten Steps Up), Fractious, Secure Borders.
Population: 8 million
Required Levy:80k
Minimum Levy: 50k
Maximum Levy: 150k
Hari-Nat:
Something of a wild-card, their Governor is grieving his son's presumed death, and their locaiton means that they have often stood to the side when war came and sorted it out afterwards, picking the winning side and sticking with them. But they are a hardy people, and a strong one, and more than that, if Hari-Bueli acts, it is only Hari-Nat that can counteract them.
While they are known for their spearman, they also have heavy infantry that is rather more substantial than most, and the Governor's elite guard, while absolutely nothing compared to, say, Bueli's elite infantry (not that any would admit it), is nothing to sneeze at. A strong infantry and a cavalry that is sub-par but at least not non-existent combine to make it a tempting addition to any army.
Order now, supplies limited.
Traits: Slow and Steady, Strong Arms, Strong Armor; Cold Doesn't Bother Me Anyways; Some Cavalry
Population: 6 million
Minimum Required: 60k
Minimum Expected: 60k
Maximum Expected: 100-150k, it really is up in the air, since they often don't get involved.
Hirand:
The most populated of the provinces, and the most agriculturally potent, they are somewhat rich, or at least their merchants are, but most of its population toils in clustered villages, on the best land in the world, bringing forth wealth for others to exploit.
Troops raised here are likely to be of relatively low morale and skill, but holy shit are there a lot of them, though Hirand itself has always suffered from internal divsions, and it is quite possible that it might well split in half between the two factions (one faction being, you know, the Emperor himself and the other an upstart, but nevermind that) based on phyiscal proximity. The Governor is something of a non-entity, but if he can be made to understand just what is at stake, perhaps…
Though there is the concerns of the harvests to worry about, that has always kept so many of their peasants tethered to the land, and thus been the only limit to their vast armies.
Population: 19 million strong.
Minimum Required: 175k
Minimum Expected: 70-80k
Maximum Possible: 600k
Irit:
Irit, the valley where an empire was born. But now it is torn by war, and its people ruined by it, and even if the bandits are put down, its contributions will be far less than they might be. And if it is not put down at all, their might be no troops from them at all, from one of the few groups that Csrae can count on to stand with it.
It is...troubling, to say the least.
Trait: Torn to Pieces, Exhausted, Lots of Priests, Godly Magic; Monks...whose fists are bare and whose hands are open.
Population: 9 million
Minimum Required: 50k
Minimum Possible: 5-10k, if that.
Maximum possible: 200k
Nestirin:
A powerful and strange province whose well of spirits and odd lore shape their character, their troops, while normal, are often backed by far more magical support, some of it outright bizarre, then most can expect to have at their back. Even their soldiers are skilled in the lore of the wells, and they have an extraordinary bond with the land and its spirits, being incredibly difficult to beat on their home ground. It is said that it took three times three wars before the lords of Nestirin bent their knee to the Emperor, in days past, after the second founding.
Currently they are leaning towards Csrae, and Kuojah is likely laboring to keep it that way, since they are next door to both Basrat and, if interference is necessary, Irit.
Traits: Magical As Shit, Untouched By War.
Population: 8.5 million
Minimum Levy:85k
Minimum Expected: 90k
Maximum: 220k
Rerin:
The spine of the empire, it rests against the wastes and has the largest range of mountains that are within the empire, rather than a border. Their people are hardy, and there are rumors of dark things in the forests that, together with the mountains, define the provincial stereotype. It is true that they used to have axe-wielding soldiers, and it is also quite true that as scouts, they're above average by most accounts, but right now the question is whether they can spare the men and attention from their quite pressing future succession crisis.
If they can, their troops will be vital for gathering together an army capable of resisting any lightning push on the capital.
Traits: An Axe to Grind, Honest Woodsman, Ore-dinary, Something in the Forests
Population: 6.5 million
Min Levy: 125k
Min Expected: 100k
Maximum Possible: 200k
Yeadalt
Currently fearing revolt, and more than that, not trusting the majority of their population, they are the smallest province in terms of actual population that counts as people and, under current rules, can bear arms in the army. In past times, some were able to in some circumstances, but at present these minority groups are barred, and Yeadalt itself is something of an armed camp. Thyis does mean that they have a large and skilled core, but there is only so much that can be done, really.
Still, their soldiers would be quite welcome, to say the least, in this man's army.
Population: 1.5 million Csiritans, too many heathens.
Minimum Required Levy: 25k
Minimum Levy: 25k...less if they're trying to guard themselves from Hari-Bueli
Maximum Levy: 60k
Xissand:
Once the home to a sick and disgusting bunch of heretics whose King defied the Emperor whose divine right it was to rule them by a shared past, now that they have long since been wiped out, its citiizens are Imperial as any other. But the northern province, bordered by Hari-Nat, prison-state Yeadalt, and Hari-Bueli, still has the legacies of this former connection.
Spirits still linger whose nature is strange and sometimes hostiles, and while most of the ruins that are in any way visible have been explored, there is still more that has been buried or lost in the ravages of time, and strange hints of a past a little different than expected.
As it stands, Xissand seems to be mostly loyal, at least at the moment. And they're always ready to prove it.
Population: 8 million
Min Levy:60k
Minimum Expected Levy: 90k
Max Levy: 160k
*****
Whew. There's other information, in a way, but I hope this was helpful. I am now opening up questions, and if it's something that Kiralo would have learned, but that I hadn't put down because holy shit, then I'll answer it.
This is both because it's important and to buy time for the next update which will take a little time.
Note, there are a lot of questions that can be answered, but I wasn't sure I could get through answering every possible question immediately, so...ask away!
Is there a reason why most provinces would commit so much troops given it'll be a civil war? I would have thought that unless you have clear benefits for doing so, they would simple stay out of it as it's simpler and less dangerous or provide token troops in comparison to their full capability.
For another question, I was wondering what sort of magical wartime feats Csirit has and how they would be mobilized?
Is it because it's easiest to write this way and it is after all a fantasy setting (which is totally understandable given the complexities involed), because I would have thought that given the distributed nature of the Empire with a civil war most provinces along with those within the provinces would dedicate the majority of their forces to themselves to ensure their land/wealth/property stays safe as if it's destroyed or ravaged it's a case of tough shit. It's not even a case of enemy soldiers activity either, you still have great reason to fear soldiers who are nominally on your side if their stomachs start to grumble or they decide they want something you have. Foraging for food after all isn't going looking for berries or game, it's taking food that other people have stored and saved up. Then there is the case of difficulties within the provinces themselves as they're not monolithic entities, so if you're a noble and you have claims or someone else has claims to your land moving your troops and them not (or not to the same extent) also becomes risky.
In general in civil wars people tend to want to minimize their involvement unless they directly and clearly benefit from one party or another (an interesting stat I read is for a historical revolution to succeed you only really need 2% of the population willing to take an active role, instead of the majority of people rising up as it tends to be portrayed), which is very different from a foreign war where there tends to be a general unity of purpose. In comparison, in a civil war if the war starts to turn against you there is always a chance the soldiers next to you may do the same.
This is of course even more of a risk depending on how much you've based it off China, as they tended to believe in familial responsibility. So if you're a noble and rebelled and lost, it doesn't just mean you would die but that there is a good chance your parents/siblings/children/grandchildren/cousins/nieces/nephews would as well with some Emperors going further along the family tree than that if even the slightest questions are raised about their loyalty.
In general in civil wars people tend to want to minimize their involvement unless they directly and clearly benefit from one party or another (an interesting stat I read is for a historical revolution to succeed you only really need 2% of the population willing to take an active role, instead of the majority of people rising up as it tends to be portrayed), which is very different from a foreign war where there tends to be a general unity of purpose. In comparison, in a civil war if the war starts to turn against you there is always a chance the soldiers next to you may do the same.
This is of course even more of a risk depending on how much you've based it off China, as they tended to believe in familial responsibility. So if you're a noble and rebelled and lost, it doesn't just mean you would die but that there is a good chance your parents/siblings/children/grandchildren/cousins/nieces/nephews would as well with some Emperors going further along the family tree than that if even the slightest questions are raised about their loyalty.
For another question, I was wondering what sort of magical wartime feats Csirit has and how they would be mobilized?
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- They/Them
The amount they give varies greatly, but everyone understands that when the war comes to an end, a lot will rely on what was done during the war. Or at least, there is an impetus towards understanding things in those terms. Additionally, as I said, the numbers I'm giving aren't entirely combat troops. Some aren't troops at all, exactly, and there's no doubt going to be a portion of them held back to 'guard the borders' or whatever else. But I found that it would have been about twenty times harder if I had to actually, like, break down that sort of thing.
Also, it's something Kiralo wouldn't be able to know because it's way too specific. Even the level of detail that is had is maybe slightly too unvague.
Re apex: I mean, at an apex, you really can get people throwing around fireballs and shit like that, or an entire river rising to wash away enemies. The sun glaring so hot, magnified by spirits of glass, that the enemy, while not boiling, isn't exactly comfortable. Most of the feats of magic, to note, are actually subtle ones. A Csiritan soldier can march longer, fight harder, and survive blows that would, quite frankly, astound a 'real life' soldier.
As for how the more high-level magic is mobilized, as said before it is often a private concern. As in, generals trying to do what they can to get Sages or the Wizards or anyone else to get involved.
In those places noted to have a strong magical tradition, it might be easier, and Hari-Os also has a strong tradition of Hedge-Wizards of sorts for hire. Basically, an odd parallel, though with less power and glory and religious status, to the Sages of the Southlands, who often become all but cult-leaders.
Csrae, well, there's a reason that Kuojah was bribing the Imperial Mage Academy, because he understand the importance of such men being on his side, whether in war or peace.
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Okay, do you want a strategic overview of Kiralo's thoughts on how fucked you are/might be/what to worry about?
Because, let's note. I, you, and everyone here is sub-10 Martial, because with even 15, that's enough to make a life career out of war.
Meanwhile he's at 30. I have an advantage since as an author I can play both sides of it and have him figure out things and etc.
You, on the other hand?
Because, let's note. I, you, and everyone here is sub-10 Martial, because with even 15, that's enough to make a life career out of war.
Meanwhile he's at 30. I have an advantage since as an author I can play both sides of it and have him figure out things and etc.
You, on the other hand?
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- Location
- The Great Beyond
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- He/She/They
That sounds good, given.
- Location
- Virginia
Yes please!!
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So, all of this is based on the assumption that war is going to happen. Obviously, how it does changes a lot, and Kiralo can't and won't be making castle-in-the-air plans about troop movement.
In general, this is going to be less 'here is what you do' because that's for you to decide, and more 'Here's the problems.'
First, let's look at the North-Northwest.
Xissand, Yeadlat, Hari-Bueli and Hari-Nat.
The third one is the key, or at least is very dangerous. They're struggling with the Bueli, and in the long term, if the war is won, it hopefully won't be at the expense of letting ground be lost at the border, or starting yet another war right after a bruising, brutal civil war. Because if it's war and Kiralo can't find a way to defuse it and still win, then the only short war will be a total defeat, and even that will be bloody.
Ideally, Hari-Bueli manages the border, doesn't drain too many troops from their area, but still sends along at least a token force, hopefully of Skirmishers.
Not as good, but still acceptable, is that they stay neutral.
Because if they side with Prince Jinhai, then both Yeadalt and Xissand will have to commit large amounts of their forces to guarding the border.
And while there is nothing special about Xissand (individual units have cool artifacts and the like, but their troops are bog-standard mostly, snek people are long gone), it's still a reasonably large province. And while, obviously, Yeadalt (if you haven't guessed, it's an ethno-religious prison-state run by a small minority of ethnically pure Csiritans, so, uh...yeah) doesn't have a lot of troops and will have to commit plenty against an uprising, every little bit counts.
Hari-Nat has traditionally stayed out of it, and more than that, their Governor is mourning the death of his son. But they have good, solid troops, and more than that, in case of a war, they have a lot of, you know, mineral supplies. Even as merely a source of iron for weapons they'd be valuable, but convincing them to actually send their full armies, or at least a good portion of them since they face few threats at home, would be a great thing. Not as vital as keeping Hari-Bueli at least neutral, but...
In Csrae, things are going well, relatively, but the key is trying to make sure that the court doesn't improperly micromanage any troops raised there. He doesn't have time for major military reforms, but he does need to make sure it's all well-managed.
Irit, well, even if he solves the problem now there's not going to be a lot of troops to spare, but symbolically and strategically, staunching the wound is important for guarding the approaches. It means that short of fighting through Irit strongly opposed, they'll have to go through one of several approaches.
Rerin is important both for mineral resources, and as a source of troops, both light and heavy, and making sure that none of them turn towards Hari-
Su if the latter defects is important.
Moving South, Nestirin is important as a source of well-trained, spiritually inclined soldiers, and if Hari-Su falls will be vulnerable to attack and thus forced to withhold more of their troops.
Hari-Su is vital, and currently torn, meanwhile...The East
Hari-Os is all but lost[1], and all he can do is mitigate the damage, which is honestly very important because they're rich and powerful. Basrat, of course, was always all for Prince Jinhai, and together, especially if they get Hari-Su, that's enough to potentially win a war, especially if they get the lion's share of Hirand.
So.
Hirand is going to be split. There's no way that the ones in the province bordering Basrat and Hari-Os are going to raise their spears against Prince Jinhai. And those bordering Csrae or Xissand aren't going to turn against the Emperor unless all is lost. But, and here's the challenge: who gets MORE of the largest and most populated province in the realm?
That's the question.
This is a bit summary, but I hope this helps a little. Hari-Bueli, Hari-Su, securing Irit, gaining Hari-nat's alliance, holding as much of Hirand as possible...
[1] I gave you several options, some of them gained by you sacrificing temporary advantage for long term...nothing, in this case, because the Lords of the Clipped Coins was supposed to be a game-changer, potentially.
In general, this is going to be less 'here is what you do' because that's for you to decide, and more 'Here's the problems.'
First, let's look at the North-Northwest.
Xissand, Yeadlat, Hari-Bueli and Hari-Nat.
The third one is the key, or at least is very dangerous. They're struggling with the Bueli, and in the long term, if the war is won, it hopefully won't be at the expense of letting ground be lost at the border, or starting yet another war right after a bruising, brutal civil war. Because if it's war and Kiralo can't find a way to defuse it and still win, then the only short war will be a total defeat, and even that will be bloody.
Ideally, Hari-Bueli manages the border, doesn't drain too many troops from their area, but still sends along at least a token force, hopefully of Skirmishers.
Not as good, but still acceptable, is that they stay neutral.
Because if they side with Prince Jinhai, then both Yeadalt and Xissand will have to commit large amounts of their forces to guarding the border.
And while there is nothing special about Xissand (individual units have cool artifacts and the like, but their troops are bog-standard mostly, snek people are long gone), it's still a reasonably large province. And while, obviously, Yeadalt (if you haven't guessed, it's an ethno-religious prison-state run by a small minority of ethnically pure Csiritans, so, uh...yeah) doesn't have a lot of troops and will have to commit plenty against an uprising, every little bit counts.
Hari-Nat has traditionally stayed out of it, and more than that, their Governor is mourning the death of his son. But they have good, solid troops, and more than that, in case of a war, they have a lot of, you know, mineral supplies. Even as merely a source of iron for weapons they'd be valuable, but convincing them to actually send their full armies, or at least a good portion of them since they face few threats at home, would be a great thing. Not as vital as keeping Hari-Bueli at least neutral, but...
In Csrae, things are going well, relatively, but the key is trying to make sure that the court doesn't improperly micromanage any troops raised there. He doesn't have time for major military reforms, but he does need to make sure it's all well-managed.
Irit, well, even if he solves the problem now there's not going to be a lot of troops to spare, but symbolically and strategically, staunching the wound is important for guarding the approaches. It means that short of fighting through Irit strongly opposed, they'll have to go through one of several approaches.
Rerin is important both for mineral resources, and as a source of troops, both light and heavy, and making sure that none of them turn towards Hari-
Su if the latter defects is important.
Moving South, Nestirin is important as a source of well-trained, spiritually inclined soldiers, and if Hari-Su falls will be vulnerable to attack and thus forced to withhold more of their troops.
Hari-Su is vital, and currently torn, meanwhile...The East
Hari-Os is all but lost[1], and all he can do is mitigate the damage, which is honestly very important because they're rich and powerful. Basrat, of course, was always all for Prince Jinhai, and together, especially if they get Hari-Su, that's enough to potentially win a war, especially if they get the lion's share of Hirand.
So.
Hirand is going to be split. There's no way that the ones in the province bordering Basrat and Hari-Os are going to raise their spears against Prince Jinhai. And those bordering Csrae or Xissand aren't going to turn against the Emperor unless all is lost. But, and here's the challenge: who gets MORE of the largest and most populated province in the realm?
That's the question.
This is a bit summary, but I hope this helps a little. Hari-Bueli, Hari-Su, securing Irit, gaining Hari-nat's alliance, holding as much of Hirand as possible...
[1] I gave you several options, some of them gained by you sacrificing temporary advantage for long term...nothing, in this case, because the Lords of the Clipped Coins was supposed to be a game-changer, potentially.
And Jinhai presumably knows this, which is why he's making a play there, gambling that if he commits the right level of attention, it'd drain JUST enough effort for the Empires other foes to boil out of the woodwork without drawing enough salt that he gets crushed outright by a full mobilization.
Or he can just bargain hardball.
Sounds worse than that, since Yeadalt would be dangerously fragile if their neighbors are weakened. It's a chain reaction waiting to go off.
Theres one missed opportunity at least. If only we had the actions.
Read: Don't weaken the Generals too much. They might have a political agenda, but they are also people who at least know command.
I did try to push that through previously, but was overridden. Clearly the merchants and moneylenders are low class and unimportant in the great motions of war and the court.
Overall, we're looking at multiple dominos chain reactions set up to go. Many situations are largely kept stable by the perception of stability, outright failures will cause cascading failures, creating problems where there were strengths.
Warrior class is good for skill levels at least. They'd have started training as soon as they could walk.
Not so good for flexible strategies, but nothing supports that much.
Well, we could help a lot here, but we need time, getting horses and cavalry up to quality would be incredibly hard without years to literally breed up a new stock unless we just import everything.
Which given the numebr of problems brewing, suggests we need some kind of fast response force, because moving the main hammer into position takes too long. Long enough for the trouble to mushroom and spread as everyone else adjusts to the repositioning.
Huh, didn't even realize it was a problem.
Granted, it's engineered precisely for that scenario to begin with due to how we need a successful action to unlock the knowledge that something is up, and then further ones to proceed with resolving the problem. Essentially random dartboard problem solving/problem revealing.
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I mean, at the same time, all the way from the first Turn I dropped hints about the importance of Hari-Os. I had them fight off the raids, and had the rumor section worry that if they weren't distracted by the raids, they'd be able to field their full might...and what if they did so to Prince Jinhai? The letter to Jinhai, too, told you enough to start moving. Etc, etc.
Anyways, update will be tomorrow. This is going to be a series of shorter updates.
Lesson learned: Geography doesn't translate well in text form
- Location
- Spain
Lesson learned: Geography doesn't translate well in text form
Yeah. A map would help a lot to keep track of things.
The fact that a lot of provinces have similarly-looking names doesn't help either.
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The problem is, the only maps I have are hand-drawn ones that kinda suck a lot. Like, random blobs and then I name them. They help with positioning, but not much else.
Also, it's drawn on lined yellow paper by hand, so there's that to consider too.
Turn 5--Results A
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Turn 5--Results A
Snow was heavy on the ground on the day that Juae finally showed Kiralo what he had spent almost two weeks desiring to show off. Kiralo had seen the careful way the other man, keen and intelligent but no full, tested out Kiralo's opinions, asking him about the Rassit and Tarnarins, quizzing him on his knowledge of cannons and their use in battle, and even his knowledge of naval affairs, which were rather lacking in a comparative sense.
There was the feeling that Juae had been burned before, that whatever idea he was proposing was so far outside the military canon that he could not trust Kiralo on his own to accept it.
This, of course, only drew more attention to his desires, and led to many conversations rather less fruitful than the ones he was having in other areas. Kiralo was aware of the feeling that he was around a skittish animal, for all that Juae was turning out to be an intensely practical and even intelligent man. Bold, but inoffensive, especially compared to Qing'lu, who could never let a comment go without slipping a barb in it.
Still, the very morning that Juae finally shared his revelation, he was out in the stables. There were many stables, and it was a little relaxing, to bond with his animal and check that the spirits that were keeping it company were getting along well. Others, of course, congregated, and if the people didn't like him, the spirits seemed to. He could smell them moving over his body, and hear the whinny-whisper of a spirit of equestrianship, no doubt watching over the entire stable. But the people, well, his progress in trying to befriend them had been difficult and more than that, seemingly pointless.
This time of year, there were very few out, and yet that day, saddling and tending to a strawberry mare, was a man he'd seen riding from the forts and back. A messenger, and thus one of the potentially-dreadful light cavalry, though he at least seemed skilled at tending to his horse.
The man's hair was thick, almost wooly, and his features were a little reminiscent of Hari-Nat ones, or perhaps those of the Bueli. It was hard to read them, but the man looked up, seeming to sense his gaze, and said, "Not the weather for anything, is it? Are you going out?"
Kiralo smiled and nodded, "Bad weather or good, he needs his exercise." He gently patted the flanks of his horse, his smile soft.
"That's very dedicated of you. I suppose that's another side to the barbarian," the man said, shaking his head ruefully.
"Other side?"
"Besides the arrogance. No offense, m'lord, but many people say that you arrogantly assume that the horses of this land are…"
He trailed off, and of course Kiralo looked the other man over, because if it was said, that was because it was true. Not that he hated Csirit, but their horsemanship was at best good, from what he'd seen. But that didn't mean that those who rode didn't care for their horses, or were not worthy riding companions.
So Kiralo stepped forward and said, "If they say that, then I am sorry I have given them that impression."
"Your Csiritan is quite formal. I am Bo," the man said with a playful little bow, "Scout with the third cavalry group. And occasional messenger."
"It is a pleasure to meet you, Cs-Bo. Would you ride with me?"
"I suppose if it wouldn't be an imposition…"
******
The generals' quarters were of course quite lovely, and as Kiralo kneeled at a dragonwood table and sipped lovely tea, he looked at the now-familiar decorations. Wall-hangings by a renowned artist, several sets of scale armor, a sort of display, and a lot of maps, books, and scrolls. The room had a crowded, lived-in feel, and so did all of the other many rooms of the complex, for he definitely took to the thousand small rooms style of architecture that Csirit had always been famous, or perhaps infamous, for.
Kiralo was used to it by now, and so he didn't look up when the paper partitions were opened up for someone to come and go with water, or wine, or tea.
Juae was the sort of person for whom the armor was an affectation, as he had delicate hands, even as he had short-cropped hair in the style of soldiers. All the world of Csirit and most of the Southlands, barring a certain habit towards baldness, wore their hair somewhat long and braided. It was a mark of adulthood, of pride and care and self-respect, but soldiers had this strange habit of cutting it close, and Juae had adopted it. Perhaps it was to hide balding, though looking at him he doubted it.
"I have seen something most miraculous when I was last in Hari-Bueli, and not merely the religious and architectural sights," Juae began, "I have told you before that I visited for a long time last year."
"You did," Kiralo conceded, sipping on his tea. He'd danced around the meeting long enough for Kiralo to guess that it wasn't with Bueli, or else he would have brought it up in the evaluations that had followed the rather disastrous news from the border.
"Well, the Anlan barbarians are not allowed into this country in any numbers, but barbarians are tricky people, sometimes dishnorable, and of course desperate to...share in our greater culture." The words were careful, their tone formal, like a man running down a list of words, slowly picking them apart and saying them as they came.
Kiralo nodded nonetheless, "And you met with some?"
"They have a camp, just beyond the border, and beyond the border of Bueli as well. A small one, but that is where their ambassador waits."
And where, he did not say, but Kiralo understood, they tried smuggling people in or materials out, trading in any way they could. The Anlan, at least as history showed, were desperate for trade with the Csiritan Empire, and had been for just over two centuries, to greater or lesser degrees. They wanted and needed the trade, and so of course they were not going to merely turn around just because all Anlan found within the borders would be, at least in theory, executed out of hand as criminals.
So, he had met with them. "Did they want the borders opened?"
"Perhaps that is their eventual aim. I cannot know, and I understand that Cs-Kuojah has his reasons for what he has decided--"
Like fear of the other, like contempt for those who are not like him, Kiralo thought but did not say.
Juae shook his head and took a slow sip of his tea, peering at Kiralo over the rim of the cup. "He showed me what they call the Turtle. A new weapon of war. I believe the Anlan might have factions, or perhaps they squabble among each other as people are wont to do, because they spoke of their efficacy in at least being able to cause difficulty to the Hulks."
"The turtle?"
Juae pulled out a scroll and opened it. Drawn there in dark ink on the white space was a large, rounded shell of sorts. It was slightly block at places, and there were cannons ringing it, coming out from viewports that looked as if they could be closed at a moment's notice. The shell seemed as if it must be thick, and by a soldier standing next to it for comparison, it was almost as tall as two men standing on each other's shoulders, with large wheels, though it was low enough to the ground that there was likely no crawling under it easily.
Its front had what looked like a ramhead, and a large cannon of the type usually used only by ships.
"It's...a cannon platform?"
"A mobile one," Juae said, "And its armor is tough. There are notes in the spirits and how they are arrayed, though the method is one that they would not share, but that we could learn."
"What do these involve?" Kiralo asked, frowning as the man unrolled the scroll a little more for a few notes.
"A rather cunning technique, I believe, involving binding spirits to the metal in a way that seems as if it was…" Juae shrugged and said, "It unnerved me, it was as if I could hear their groans, and yet I couldn't see the spirits at all. However, superstition aside, they should be powerful enough to stand up to the blows of Tarnarin and Hanin quite well."
"Are you so sure of that?" Kiralo asked, "Their loosed arrows and bolts can pack quite a punch, and they'll be aiming for any weak spots."
"My guess is that enough Hanin, massed, could cause a problem, but the Turtle moves as fast as a man walking quite quickly, and if we found a way to increase their speed...the point would be to hit the enemy lines when they're weak and then power through them. At that point, from how it was described to me, the ram tears people down and the cannons shatter the formation," Juae said. "I saw it in action, if only against stationary targets, and it seems very impressive."
"Ah, and you're interested in...purchasing them?"
"It is not something that can be openly said, is it?" Juae shook his head, "But they would be a potent weapon, and one that could not easily be counted, especially by the Bueli themselves."
Kiralo considered the words, "The terrain hardly would bear wheeled vehicles. I know from accounts of old campaigns," that he had tirelessly been reading as part of his general education on Csiritan military affairs, "That there were often difficulty maintaining a baggage train, even without the constant raids. They'd slow down a campaign considerably to haul around."
Juae frowned and nodded, "Perhaps, but there are advantages, and more than that, there are many sorts of ground where they would be unstoppable. I am convinced that it might be the way forward, a weapon that enemies cannot easily match. The prices they have mentioned are expensive, yes. But that only makes it better: what other power in the region could afford it, and what they call expensive, and what might be for an ordinary noble outrageous...is quite within the grasp of the Imperial Seat. It means that we would have a weapon that could not easily be acquired and used against us by petty nobles. Only Governors or Emperors would be able to readily afford them."
Kiralo nodded. Control was always a point of difficulty with any form of power or force. A half-naked man in a tent might have a greater mastery of the lore of spirits than his armed opponent. Peasants were at a vast disadvantage in revolting because the spirits associated with war had names, and those names were known by some but not others. But petty nobles? Popular revolt leaders? Former soldiers? There were many ways to even the ground, and the more even the ground, the less power the Emperor could wield. Or those who might wield the Emperor could wield.
Sometimes for the better, one might say, since greater control could be balanced against far greater taxation. Either way, Kiralo understood that there was more at work here than one bit of new technology. It seemed promising on paper, but so did many ideas, and so Kiralo asked, "And you want my help?"
"Maybe. I want to at least see what they're willing to offer, but to do so, we need to be able to talk, officially. I was hoping perhaps to find a way to purchase some before war comes…"
"War might not come," Kiralo asserted, quietly. Prince Jinhai might not go to war, or he might yet be outmaneuvered, but it was rather clear that time was starting to run low, and in a small room both men knew that more likely than not, before next year was out there would be war. Perhaps even a few months from that day, depending.
They lived in a court that didn't seem to realize just how close to disaster they were riding.
"It might not. Or it might. We don't have time, anymore, at least it seems likely," Juae said, "But if you want my support, those are terms that I will ask. Aid me in exploring this new possibility, for it could be the start of something great."
Kiralo considered Juae's words carefully.
It was not a popular idea, and it never would be. The techniques of barbarians, especially if they were so close to blasphemy, in a land that already barred them from living in Csirit at all...at the same time, there was potential, and what Juae wasn't asking for was the assurance that it would get done. Merely the attempt. It was a price, and a price that meant that he knew about Kiralo's desire to be Imperial Envoy to the Council of Generals.
As yet he was still unsure whether or not he would obtain the position, and more than that, he thought, stretching out a hand to take up the cup of tea and sip it, even if he became the Envoy, that didn't mean that Juae's support, for however long it lasted, wouldn't be important. The man might have influence with Hari-Bueli, at least in theory, and if it came down to war against the Bueli, his support would be vital and his opposition dangerous.
At the same time, it was dangerous indeed to be promoting what was, in one sense, a conspiracy of sorts. Juae should not have talked to a barbarian diplomat or envoy without the express word of the Imperial Seat, and while he could of course defend that he was merely in the area and talked to them unofficially, that would only stand so long as the people running the court were willing to look the other way, and no longer.
What do you say?
[] Agree to his terms.
[] Disagree.
[] Write-in. Also, feel free to stunt the two above if you really wish to. It might be a good idea, though not 100% necessary.
*****
A/N: Alright, this is going to be several different relatively short updates, thanks in part to how you rolled for the 'South' 'West' and 'Hari-Bueli' options.
Snow was heavy on the ground on the day that Juae finally showed Kiralo what he had spent almost two weeks desiring to show off. Kiralo had seen the careful way the other man, keen and intelligent but no full, tested out Kiralo's opinions, asking him about the Rassit and Tarnarins, quizzing him on his knowledge of cannons and their use in battle, and even his knowledge of naval affairs, which were rather lacking in a comparative sense.
There was the feeling that Juae had been burned before, that whatever idea he was proposing was so far outside the military canon that he could not trust Kiralo on his own to accept it.
This, of course, only drew more attention to his desires, and led to many conversations rather less fruitful than the ones he was having in other areas. Kiralo was aware of the feeling that he was around a skittish animal, for all that Juae was turning out to be an intensely practical and even intelligent man. Bold, but inoffensive, especially compared to Qing'lu, who could never let a comment go without slipping a barb in it.
Still, the very morning that Juae finally shared his revelation, he was out in the stables. There were many stables, and it was a little relaxing, to bond with his animal and check that the spirits that were keeping it company were getting along well. Others, of course, congregated, and if the people didn't like him, the spirits seemed to. He could smell them moving over his body, and hear the whinny-whisper of a spirit of equestrianship, no doubt watching over the entire stable. But the people, well, his progress in trying to befriend them had been difficult and more than that, seemingly pointless.
This time of year, there were very few out, and yet that day, saddling and tending to a strawberry mare, was a man he'd seen riding from the forts and back. A messenger, and thus one of the potentially-dreadful light cavalry, though he at least seemed skilled at tending to his horse.
The man's hair was thick, almost wooly, and his features were a little reminiscent of Hari-Nat ones, or perhaps those of the Bueli. It was hard to read them, but the man looked up, seeming to sense his gaze, and said, "Not the weather for anything, is it? Are you going out?"
Kiralo smiled and nodded, "Bad weather or good, he needs his exercise." He gently patted the flanks of his horse, his smile soft.
"That's very dedicated of you. I suppose that's another side to the barbarian," the man said, shaking his head ruefully.
"Other side?"
"Besides the arrogance. No offense, m'lord, but many people say that you arrogantly assume that the horses of this land are…"
He trailed off, and of course Kiralo looked the other man over, because if it was said, that was because it was true. Not that he hated Csirit, but their horsemanship was at best good, from what he'd seen. But that didn't mean that those who rode didn't care for their horses, or were not worthy riding companions.
So Kiralo stepped forward and said, "If they say that, then I am sorry I have given them that impression."
"Your Csiritan is quite formal. I am Bo," the man said with a playful little bow, "Scout with the third cavalry group. And occasional messenger."
"It is a pleasure to meet you, Cs-Bo. Would you ride with me?"
"I suppose if it wouldn't be an imposition…"
******
The generals' quarters were of course quite lovely, and as Kiralo kneeled at a dragonwood table and sipped lovely tea, he looked at the now-familiar decorations. Wall-hangings by a renowned artist, several sets of scale armor, a sort of display, and a lot of maps, books, and scrolls. The room had a crowded, lived-in feel, and so did all of the other many rooms of the complex, for he definitely took to the thousand small rooms style of architecture that Csirit had always been famous, or perhaps infamous, for.
Kiralo was used to it by now, and so he didn't look up when the paper partitions were opened up for someone to come and go with water, or wine, or tea.
Juae was the sort of person for whom the armor was an affectation, as he had delicate hands, even as he had short-cropped hair in the style of soldiers. All the world of Csirit and most of the Southlands, barring a certain habit towards baldness, wore their hair somewhat long and braided. It was a mark of adulthood, of pride and care and self-respect, but soldiers had this strange habit of cutting it close, and Juae had adopted it. Perhaps it was to hide balding, though looking at him he doubted it.
"I have seen something most miraculous when I was last in Hari-Bueli, and not merely the religious and architectural sights," Juae began, "I have told you before that I visited for a long time last year."
"You did," Kiralo conceded, sipping on his tea. He'd danced around the meeting long enough for Kiralo to guess that it wasn't with Bueli, or else he would have brought it up in the evaluations that had followed the rather disastrous news from the border.
"Well, the Anlan barbarians are not allowed into this country in any numbers, but barbarians are tricky people, sometimes dishnorable, and of course desperate to...share in our greater culture." The words were careful, their tone formal, like a man running down a list of words, slowly picking them apart and saying them as they came.
Kiralo nodded nonetheless, "And you met with some?"
"They have a camp, just beyond the border, and beyond the border of Bueli as well. A small one, but that is where their ambassador waits."
And where, he did not say, but Kiralo understood, they tried smuggling people in or materials out, trading in any way they could. The Anlan, at least as history showed, were desperate for trade with the Csiritan Empire, and had been for just over two centuries, to greater or lesser degrees. They wanted and needed the trade, and so of course they were not going to merely turn around just because all Anlan found within the borders would be, at least in theory, executed out of hand as criminals.
So, he had met with them. "Did they want the borders opened?"
"Perhaps that is their eventual aim. I cannot know, and I understand that Cs-Kuojah has his reasons for what he has decided--"
Like fear of the other, like contempt for those who are not like him, Kiralo thought but did not say.
Juae shook his head and took a slow sip of his tea, peering at Kiralo over the rim of the cup. "He showed me what they call the Turtle. A new weapon of war. I believe the Anlan might have factions, or perhaps they squabble among each other as people are wont to do, because they spoke of their efficacy in at least being able to cause difficulty to the Hulks."
"The turtle?"
Juae pulled out a scroll and opened it. Drawn there in dark ink on the white space was a large, rounded shell of sorts. It was slightly block at places, and there were cannons ringing it, coming out from viewports that looked as if they could be closed at a moment's notice. The shell seemed as if it must be thick, and by a soldier standing next to it for comparison, it was almost as tall as two men standing on each other's shoulders, with large wheels, though it was low enough to the ground that there was likely no crawling under it easily.
Its front had what looked like a ramhead, and a large cannon of the type usually used only by ships.
"It's...a cannon platform?"
"A mobile one," Juae said, "And its armor is tough. There are notes in the spirits and how they are arrayed, though the method is one that they would not share, but that we could learn."
"What do these involve?" Kiralo asked, frowning as the man unrolled the scroll a little more for a few notes.
"A rather cunning technique, I believe, involving binding spirits to the metal in a way that seems as if it was…" Juae shrugged and said, "It unnerved me, it was as if I could hear their groans, and yet I couldn't see the spirits at all. However, superstition aside, they should be powerful enough to stand up to the blows of Tarnarin and Hanin quite well."
"Are you so sure of that?" Kiralo asked, "Their loosed arrows and bolts can pack quite a punch, and they'll be aiming for any weak spots."
"My guess is that enough Hanin, massed, could cause a problem, but the Turtle moves as fast as a man walking quite quickly, and if we found a way to increase their speed...the point would be to hit the enemy lines when they're weak and then power through them. At that point, from how it was described to me, the ram tears people down and the cannons shatter the formation," Juae said. "I saw it in action, if only against stationary targets, and it seems very impressive."
"Ah, and you're interested in...purchasing them?"
"It is not something that can be openly said, is it?" Juae shook his head, "But they would be a potent weapon, and one that could not easily be counted, especially by the Bueli themselves."
Kiralo considered the words, "The terrain hardly would bear wheeled vehicles. I know from accounts of old campaigns," that he had tirelessly been reading as part of his general education on Csiritan military affairs, "That there were often difficulty maintaining a baggage train, even without the constant raids. They'd slow down a campaign considerably to haul around."
Juae frowned and nodded, "Perhaps, but there are advantages, and more than that, there are many sorts of ground where they would be unstoppable. I am convinced that it might be the way forward, a weapon that enemies cannot easily match. The prices they have mentioned are expensive, yes. But that only makes it better: what other power in the region could afford it, and what they call expensive, and what might be for an ordinary noble outrageous...is quite within the grasp of the Imperial Seat. It means that we would have a weapon that could not easily be acquired and used against us by petty nobles. Only Governors or Emperors would be able to readily afford them."
Kiralo nodded. Control was always a point of difficulty with any form of power or force. A half-naked man in a tent might have a greater mastery of the lore of spirits than his armed opponent. Peasants were at a vast disadvantage in revolting because the spirits associated with war had names, and those names were known by some but not others. But petty nobles? Popular revolt leaders? Former soldiers? There were many ways to even the ground, and the more even the ground, the less power the Emperor could wield. Or those who might wield the Emperor could wield.
Sometimes for the better, one might say, since greater control could be balanced against far greater taxation. Either way, Kiralo understood that there was more at work here than one bit of new technology. It seemed promising on paper, but so did many ideas, and so Kiralo asked, "And you want my help?"
"Maybe. I want to at least see what they're willing to offer, but to do so, we need to be able to talk, officially. I was hoping perhaps to find a way to purchase some before war comes…"
"War might not come," Kiralo asserted, quietly. Prince Jinhai might not go to war, or he might yet be outmaneuvered, but it was rather clear that time was starting to run low, and in a small room both men knew that more likely than not, before next year was out there would be war. Perhaps even a few months from that day, depending.
They lived in a court that didn't seem to realize just how close to disaster they were riding.
"It might not. Or it might. We don't have time, anymore, at least it seems likely," Juae said, "But if you want my support, those are terms that I will ask. Aid me in exploring this new possibility, for it could be the start of something great."
Kiralo considered Juae's words carefully.
It was not a popular idea, and it never would be. The techniques of barbarians, especially if they were so close to blasphemy, in a land that already barred them from living in Csirit at all...at the same time, there was potential, and what Juae wasn't asking for was the assurance that it would get done. Merely the attempt. It was a price, and a price that meant that he knew about Kiralo's desire to be Imperial Envoy to the Council of Generals.
As yet he was still unsure whether or not he would obtain the position, and more than that, he thought, stretching out a hand to take up the cup of tea and sip it, even if he became the Envoy, that didn't mean that Juae's support, for however long it lasted, wouldn't be important. The man might have influence with Hari-Bueli, at least in theory, and if it came down to war against the Bueli, his support would be vital and his opposition dangerous.
At the same time, it was dangerous indeed to be promoting what was, in one sense, a conspiracy of sorts. Juae should not have talked to a barbarian diplomat or envoy without the express word of the Imperial Seat, and while he could of course defend that he was merely in the area and talked to them unofficially, that would only stand so long as the people running the court were willing to look the other way, and no longer.
What do you say?
[] Agree to his terms.
[] Disagree.
[] Write-in. Also, feel free to stunt the two above if you really wish to. It might be a good idea, though not 100% necessary.
*****
A/N: Alright, this is going to be several different relatively short updates, thanks in part to how you rolled for the 'South' 'West' and 'Hari-Bueli' options.
Zeitgeist Blue
Currently Made of Metal
- Location
- Manila, Philippines, GMT +8
[X] Agree to his terms.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, in this case, what I'd be looking for is almost a sort of write-in with words. Like, what do you say? You can also include, you know, gestures or 'Kiralo's logic' or whatever else you want. Just...under, say, 100 words, preferably? I mean, it can be as short as a sentence or "I agree to your terms...but on a few conditions. First, I want a polo pony. Second, I want a tutor in Bueli. Third, I want a new haircut. Chip chop chip garcon, or else." Or it can be longer than that.
@the Laurant - You said before we could ask some questions to clarify things, and I've just thought of one particularly relevant. Why would Kiralo believe Prince Jinhai would rebel and seek the throne (or he could want the regency, not the Kingship at this stage), and what chances/options are available that could negate any conflict?
There is of course the simple power hungry/greed argument, but it seems foolish of me to make assumptions especially simplistic ones. After all the one most relevant to western audiences (or perhaps just British and I'm projecting my beliefs) is Richard III who first had a fear of monopolization of power by the Queen and her family and being pushed out, which led to him seizing control of the heirs to the throne and thus becoming regent, then afterwards crowned himself (perhaps due to the civil stability at the time) and somewhere along the way they died and it's questionable whether he knew even then. From all accounts he doesn't seem like he intended to kill his brothers children or crown himself from the start, and it seems very much a complicated affair.
With regards to the stunt, I'll look back where the generals were first introduced for some ideas. I've forgotten all their responsibilities, and the geographies they influence outside the obvious ones like Su and Nat.
There is of course the simple power hungry/greed argument, but it seems foolish of me to make assumptions especially simplistic ones. After all the one most relevant to western audiences (or perhaps just British and I'm projecting my beliefs) is Richard III who first had a fear of monopolization of power by the Queen and her family and being pushed out, which led to him seizing control of the heirs to the throne and thus becoming regent, then afterwards crowned himself (perhaps due to the civil stability at the time) and somewhere along the way they died and it's questionable whether he knew even then. From all accounts he doesn't seem like he intended to kill his brothers children or crown himself from the start, and it seems very much a complicated affair.
With regards to the stunt, I'll look back where the generals were first introduced for some ideas. I've forgotten all their responsibilities, and the geographies they influence outside the obvious ones like Su and Nat.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Prince Jinhai is of a lesser offshoot branch, but therefore one more free and in some ways...well, important isn't the word. But they don't stay in the Imperial city, that's for sure. In Basrat, and to some extent Hirand, Hari-Os, and the entire Empire, he has made a name for himself as a bold general, a talented young man in peace and war whose skill and cunning and steady hand are legendary. Something of a schemer, Kiralo would guess, and no doubt it's a carefully cultivated reputation.
But there are no doubt many who would much prefer a regency or rule by a young man such as that over the rule of a boy and the regency of an old man a single bad winter from death.
More than that, Kuojah's chickens have come to roost. Every enemy he's made that he hasn't been able to destroy, and every policy whose success has been unsteady has only won him yet more problems, and because of the Emperor, he can't even take direct credit for some of it, leading to a peasantry that largely is either apathetic or follows the motivations of their betters.
In multiple provinces he has caused economic damage, even if others grow rich from his policies.
Thus, Kiralo thinks it likely that whatever greed and ambition are there, Prince Jinhai, and more than a few other people, think that he would be a far better ruler and one less likely to wreck the Empire, than the boy.
There's also the fact that, complicating things, even if Prince Jinhai was reluctant, he's also a percieved rival of the Imperial Seat. It doesn't apply that much because the enemy is Kuojah, and in other 'Father' scenarios everything would be different, but if any number of people other than Kuojah were in charge, there would be continuous assassination attempts on him until he and everyone he loved were dead out of paranoia that he'd revolt.
So it's complicated, but in Kiralo's view, ambition is at the center of it: and note, Csiritan culture doesn't actually despise ambition. In this case, the fact that the ambition would lead to overthrowing the rightful monarch, well...that's something a bit different.
It's all how things are framed, honestly.
Edit: It'd honestly be wise of him to take a path where he takes control of the court to 'expel bad advisers' and then moves from there.
Edit 2: The best way to make him back down is of course to make victory seem unlikely, because whatever his opinion of himself, he's not a mad-dog martyr idiot.
Edit 3: Gotta go now, but the best way you might have done that is draw Hari-Su, Hari-Os, and Hari-Bueli away from him. If none of them particularly supported him, he'd kinda be fucked.
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Uh...I think the unclear part is whether we are writing in conditions on the agreement, or if we're writing in how we present it to the court.
And if conditions, what do we know that he CAN do?
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- They/Them
So, Juae of the West is, as noted, in charge of the levies of large parts of Rerin, and then all of Yeadalt and Hari-Bueli, as well as having influence over the Academy-Military liason and one of the three most important generals for determining logistics beneath him. Now, it's hard to tell just how respected he is in Hari-Bueli, but he's at least competent, and at most skilled, even if not on a battlefield, so anything related to Hari-Bueli could be relevent. In addition to that, he's clearly at least willing to hear out new military innovations, and the fact that he has contact with the Anlan could matter if that's something that matters to Kiralo. Additionally, and this is what he's offering, he's one of the five most important generals on the Council, and he's the one who is most a swing-vote.
Whereas the South and East general are heavily anti-Kuojah and have to be convinced on each issue, and whereas the Central (and Head) General is entirely Kuojah's man (but not Kiralo's, at least not yet) and the North one is leaning that way, Juae is...his own man, it seems.
Also, agreeing basically automatically grants a small bonus to the 'Envoy to the Council' roll when it comes up.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Perhaps we could sound him out in improving the Empire's cavalry? Like, appealing to how Kiralo also understands that tactics that come from out the empire might provide a boon to the army and is happy to have found a like minded man?