Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2)

I guess I'll fall in behind Veekie's plan given it's the closest to mine. I dislike Pulling on Threads as you're using two state influence on an option that from the description is highly likely to increase in success chance by completing the General's choices and improving others view of our martial prowess.

[X] Plan Widening The Dance
 
Question for Kiralo:
1. How long takes to plan campain? ( and by plan all prepration before actually marching)
2. How long would take army to get Irit?
3. What is the latest that battles in Irit could be resonably fought?
4. When is earliest that army can resonaly march?

So that we can properly plan this.

5. What does he think about Imperial Magical Academy?

6. How long will his merceanry company wait before findng new job?
 
Question for Kiralo:
1. How long takes to plan campain? ( and by plan all prepration before actually marching)
2. How long would take army to get Irit?
3. What is the latest that battles in Irit could be resonably fought?
4. When is earliest that army can resonaly march?

So that we can properly plan this.

5. What does he think about Imperial Magical Academy?

6. How long will his merceanry company wait before findng new job?

That all depends on how thoroughly one wants to plan. Kiralo has done some rush jobs before, of course, and a lot of off-the-cuff work, and so he doesn't really have experience with a large military bureaucracy, but while the one turn (month) of time for convincing people includes planning (having a plan being a very convincing thing), I definitely wouldn't expect the plan to be ready by the next turn.

2) It depends on what is decided in terms of the forces present and the like, and that's actually an area that depending on things you might have a say in. Obviously, the larger the army the more gathering it will take, but if one just used the forces present in Csrae the Province itself, not *that* long, because Irit is right next door.

3) Please clarify this some.

4) Well, if they have time to actually prepare, they could march even in the winter...but reasonably, Turn 6 (Early Spring.)

5) I'm...I literally have to run out the door in ten minutes, so I'm going to have to wait on answering this.

6) The difficulty is not them finding a new job, but that they'd have to restrict themselves to a job they can easily leave if you call, and that's probably not the best and most profitable jobs. So the longer they're kept waiting on tenderhooks or whatnot, the more likely there is to be grumbling, or at least a desire maybe not to wait up.
 
4) Well, if they have time to actually prepare, they could march even in the winter...but reasonably, Turn 6 (Early Spring.)

Though marching in winter can be ruinous to an army, for those hoping for a swift resolution. You're fighting cold and hunger, and marching where there is no forage to supplement. Bandit activity usually drops dramatically as well at least.

So I'm not really sure why the rush to mobilize right now when the army cannot take action effectively until winter is over
 
Though marching in winter can be ruinous to an army, for those hoping for a swift resolution. You're fighting cold and hunger, and marching where there is no forage to supplement. Bandit activity usually drops dramatically as well at least.

So I'm not really sure why the rush to mobilize right now when the army cannot take action effectively until winter is over

It does, you know, take time to actually get ready. Like, this is definitely not something where if you do it in Turn 5, everything's sorted out by Turn 6.

And there are definitely other factors involved that create time pressures that *could* incentivize preparing right now.
 
By which turn we should end campain, because of weather. I mean if we can reasonbly plan to begin earcliest to turn 6, when does it need to end (fall or winter)?

I would like to see how urgent and/or usefull is to get military campin started this turn...

Well, if need be, if the army can construct camps and get supplied, they could stay the Winter in Irit.
 
[X] Plan Widening The Dance

I definitely like the notion of capitalizing on that temporary influence while it lasts. The forts seem like an important step as well, given the...issues with letting that fall to the wayside.
 
IMHO, Rumors of War synergizes really well with all the military matters in my plan and furrher solidifies other's perception of us. Right now we're probably the son of Kuojah who can throw a great party who maybe knows what he's talking about when it comes to war (who also doesn't keep his appointments well). This is us trying to recrify that considering it's our livelihood.

Thing is, I'd rather spend dice on things which either solidify our influence or help in the situation in Irit more directly; I'd probably be in favor of Vekiee's plan if I didn't consider this to worth personal attention.

And to general voters, do you really want just stop here? Vekiee's plan does have us give logistical support to the Governor, but it's a passive measure against an entrenched enemy, and so dividends may not come until much, much later, and it will do nothing to re-pacify the region before the civil war, our greatest concern; Letting it fester until that moment is unacceptable. Besides, this is a good time to prepare, even if it is bad for actually marching; Done quickly enough, the campaign may be ready for Summer, a time of tolerable weather for marching, unless I underestimate the severity of Irit's seasonal rains.

I very much want the region to be pacified before the Civil War, because otherwise we simply will not have the time for it to be properly dealt with and may even become quite the vulnerability in the loyalist provinces, something we cannot afford to have. This is also an opportunity to familiarise ourselves with the functioning of Csiritian army on campaigning in a relatively low-risk situation and to maybe even mitigate it's abandonment by Kuojah, without stepping on the toes of the preexisting generals and previous authorithy structure.

TL;DR: Irit is a manageable problem now that may grow into a crucial one later, therefore, I want it decisively dealt with; while also being an opportunity for Kiralo become more familiar with the army.
 
Letting it fester until that moment is unacceptable.
Actually, it SHOULDN'T be festering. We already start to address the root cause: Starvation and poverty, through sending aid.
We then increase the entry barrier to becoming a bandit by increasing security. There's nothing to rob without risks of getting killed in retaliation

Simply put, that already would motivate the bandit problem to reduce itself.

THEN Winter hits.
The people at home farming? They will be getting food delivered to them under armed escorts.
The people out there robbing others?

Enjoy the cold and hunger.
 
Thing is, I'd rather spend dice on things which either solidify our influence or help in the situation in Irit more directly; I'd probably be in favor of Vekiee's plan if I didn't consider this to worth personal attention.

And to general voters, do you really want just stop here? Vekiee's plan does have us give logistical support to the Governor, but it's a passive measure against an entrenched enemy, and so dividends may not come until much, much later, and it will do nothing to re-pacify the region before the civil war, our greatest concern; Letting it fester until that moment is unacceptable. Besides, this is a good time to prepare, even if it is bad for actually marching; Done quickly enough, the campaign may be ready for Summer, a time of tolerable weather for marching, unless I underestimate the severity of Irit's seasonal rains.

I very much want the region to be pacified before the Civil War, because otherwise we simply will not have the time for it to be properly dealt with and may even become quite the vulnerability in the loyalist provinces, something we cannot afford to have. This is also an opportunity to familiarise ourselves with the functioning of Csiritian army on campaigning in a relatively low-risk situation and to maybe even mitigate it's abandonment by Kuojah, without stepping on the toes of the preexisting generals and previous authorithy structure.

TL;DR: Irit is a manageable problem now that may grow into a crucial one later, therefore, I want it decisively dealt with; while also being an opportunity for Kiralo become more familiar with the army.
The thing is, my plan does take into account solidifying our influence. I've included Family Matters and Money in the City which explicitly has us looking for and building a network of allies in Csrae. These two through our familial connections and our contact in Yonu.

We don't know much about our half-sisters but we can safely assume their husbands wield a high and favorable position in society to be able to wed the daughters of Kuojah. Money in the City specifically targets the bureaucrats and bankers, two professions which would have prospered under Kuojah and would see our father in a kind light, as evidenced by Yonu. We could capitalize on the goodwill our father brought up both in our half-step-brothers and the bureaucracy, no matter how distasteful it is to us.

Similarly, we're trying to gain an ally in To the West. We won't know if Juae of the West would be disposed towards us, but at least there's a chance he won't be hostile to us (secretly or out in the open) right off the bat. Besides, Kuojah thinks its worth a try and I would trust his ability to navigate Csiritan politics.

This isn't to mention Rumors of War, which is based on people's perception of us. Entirely soft as far as power goes but it helps complete the picture we're trying to make here.

I do agree with you in regards to our actions for Irit. We do need a decisive advantage in dealing with the bandits and nothing is more decisive than an army of the Empire descending on the bandits. I view the options we have in terms of this and the resources we're willing to spend. Put Down, if prepared for and successfully implemented, will end the threat of bandits instead of letting the Governor and his provincial forces handle it on their own. Yes, we will construct a series of forts in Fort Up but an army needs bases to operate from and I have no doubt there'd be a few forts going up just to house the soldiers or to act as a Forward Operating Base.

Ultimately both choices are military matters, but one does provide more flexibility in our State Dice because of its easier roll requirement. However, right now it seems something as huge as a war is going on there; refugees and starvation is common enough there that it wouldn't be exaggeration to say so.
 
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Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Plan Pulling on Threads
-[X] Title: To Protect...
-[X] Title: Trust in Arrears (x2 Dice)
-[X] Title: To the West
-[X] Title: A Letter to A Friend
-[X] Title: Family Matters.
-[X] Title: Rumors of War
-[X] Title: Money in the City
-[X] Title: Put Down (x2 Dice)
No. of votes: 1
Zeitgeist Blue

[X] Plan Pulling on Threads
No. of votes: 5
Gingganz, Random Member, mori, BrainInAJar, Tanor

[X] Plan Widening The Dance
-[X] Upon the Uneasy Throne
-[X] Trust in Arrears - 2 dice
-[X] Rumors of War
-[X] A Letter to A Friend
-[X] Letters to a Poet
-[X] Family Matters.
-[X] Doing the Rounds
-[X] Poetical Exercises
-[X] A Letter To A Prince
-[X] Fort Up
No. of votes: 1
veekie

[X] Plan Widening The Dance
No. of votes: 5
wingstrike96, Muer'ci, Nicklance, Neptune, Bozwevial
 
[X] Plan Widening The Dance

Well, I wasn't sure so I'd held off from voting, but I'll participate. I think state actions are very important, so I'm letting that take the priority in my decision. I'm not certain about the value of A Letter To A Prince, but I feel that 'Put Down' ought to be led into more than we have done, and Fort Up is certainly a valuable thing to do, and so I have voted for Widening The Dance.
 
Not going to close the vote, but now that I see what's winning, I do think I'll probably say something after the vote is closed.

Less in a "This vote sucks" and more whatever wins I'm going to whine about how tons of important plot hooks are being ignored that will probably kill you.

...note, this is for both plans.

Or maybe I'll just smile?
 
Actually, it SHOULDN'T be festering. We already start to address the root cause: Starvation and poverty, through sending aid.
We then increase the entry barrier to becoming a bandit by increasing security. There's nothing to rob without risks of getting killed in retaliation

Simply put, that already would motivate the bandit problem to reduce itself.

THEN Winter hits.
The people at home farming? They will be getting food delivered to them under armed escorts.
The people out there robbing others?

Enjoy the cold and hunger.

Oh, I certainly don't doubt that the problem would be resolved eventually, assuming no more externalities, despite being quite cynical about the probable destination our aid will actually go towards, considering the level of corruption and bureaucratic incompetence displayed.

However, I do not think this aid package would solve the problem quickly enough, and it may resolve it in an unsatisfactory manner. This aid pacakge will not deal with the bandits this Winter, when they are at their wax and the forces and aid sent has not fully mobilized, plus the essentially defensive nature of said aid means the bandits may last for quite a while yet, certainly in time to be at least a nuisance during the civil war.

Considering we could be heading this off now, saving us trouble later and gaining the solid favor of this province, which could instead be in dispute should it still be unstable enough, I vastly prefer just rolling the army in.

Additionally, the points made about familiarizing ourselves with the army still stand.
 
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