Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2)

You can tell the writer is biased against Southlanders because he makes no mention of Kueli's mustache. He wouldn't disparage Kiralo so much if he did.
 
Interesting choice, if not one I'd wished won. It does exemplify for the most part what actual history is though and it's the same for most civilizations.
 
Interesting choice, if not one I'd wished won. It does exemplify for the most part what actual history is though and it's the same for most civilizations.

I mean, I'm a person with a history degree. I actually have a great, deep respect for modern historiography.

I don't necessarily have a respect for ancient gossip-mongering, which was what too much history used to be, entirely.
 
Turn 12: The Battle--Part 4
Turn 12--The Battle: Part 4--Moving For Ground

It was a war for position now. Even as Kueli went out, and returned frustrated and blaming himself for something he knew was a part of every war, Kiralo moved the army, which was sluggish and uncertain.

Afraid, it almost seemed, to confront the battle ahead. Wagons broke now, the ones carrying the cannons, and Jinhai was shying away from the battle. Or rather, he was clearly trying to get the best possible position. It was hard to tell exactly where they'd meet, and in one sense, Jinhai could have just stopped his army where it was, except that Kiralo wouldn't have played that game. He would have added some of the less experienced cavalry that had been thrown together and he'd have sent the Rassit out again, despite their losses, to loop all the way around and cut up their supply line.

Have fun sitting in place as your food starts to run out and your generals grumble, Kiralo thought.

But instead, Jinhai was speeding up and slowly down, and more than that, he was actually doing pretty well at moving his men around. They were in high spirits, as far as Kiralo could tell, and they even had a thin numerical advantage. It wasn't much of one, but it was there, and Jinhai seemed more used to the big armies than Kiralo was.

Normally, when both sides didn't have something on the line, this kind of sparring would last a long time. They'd send what skirmishers they had to harass each other, they'd try to catch each other's armies out at the wrong place, and then eventually if both sides didn't want to avoid battle, or one side couldn't, then there would be something like the battles that everyone talked about.

But here, both sides had to fight, sooner rather than later.

Kiralo watched, his scouts did their work very well, and he hoped that all would work out.

On the fifth day, he got reports that his men had met the enemy. It was late in the day, the hot sun starting to dim a little as it sank down, the dust kicked up as they passed by. The forward scouts fought or struggled. People died, and people sent him a message. The enemy had been sighted.

"Forward," Kiralo said. "Pass the word. We're going to move forward and meet him. And if he flees--"

If he flees, then Kiralo will carefully judge whether it is a fake retreat or not and harass them. Jinhai won't want to take the risk and the loss of morale that running would entail.

And so the armies surged forward, and the camps began to coalesce, the men running together, tens of thousands gathering like a great mass of birds, and on both sides, they had to be preparing.

There was not much of a fight, not really. But it was enough that both armies stopped, and then there they were, across from each other.

Not the best ground, but not the worst.

There were two lakes nearby, one of them rather large, and on a down slope, divided by some elevated terrain from another lake, somewhat shorter. If Kiralo knew anything, Jinhai would anchor part of his army on that second lake.

But it wasn't a large enough lake, not really, and so he'd have to put at least a little bit of his forces at the edge, there, to keep the Rassit from riding around. That said, it was still an anchoring force, and it wouldn't be hard to protect one of his flanks like that.

Between the armies, but far closer to Kiralo's side, was a small set of hills that seemed like balls of millet thrown down onto the ground, brown and ugly things, but if he moved his army like so, he could take the somewhat dismal heights and install the cannons there. The question was whether he moved his formation at an angle, and this started the battle anchored to the lake on one side (thisleft), and the hills themselves as the front on the other end (his right), the troops at the lake partially refused, or whether he might, for instance, keep the cannons back and move forward to take the hills and place them there.

It changed much, or could. It'd change his starting formation, for one, and it'd also change what happened. What the first impression was. If the cannons were there from the start, they'd be noticed from the start, that much was obvious.

He had a meeting to attend, a council of war, and he'd need to have a plan, and he'd need to have a way to execute it.

And it'd need to be very, very simple. Or at least hard to mess up.

It was the evening before a battle, and Kiralo knew he, unlike his men, would not sleep much, if at all.

Where to take up position?

[] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, but the hills left uncaptured at the start. Perhaps they can be occupied later in the battle, as part of a push against one side of the enemy's forces.
[] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
[] Write-in.

What will the Rassit (and light cavalry) be doing?

[] Trying to get around that lake, and harassing and threatening their right (your left) side, forcing them to commit men to keep from being flanked.
[] Massing around your right (their left) in order to force the enemy to overextend there, hitting them on occasion/harassing them on that side, but allowing them to anchor on their own lake decently well.
[] Write-in.

What about some of the Hanin:

[] All of them should be with the reserve, not just some of them, for a big push further into the battle.
[] Use them to buck up or strengthen the second line of a specific area…
-[] Left wing.
-[] Center.
-[] Right wing.
[] Write-in.

Mage priorities! (Order them)

[] Countermagic.
[] Close support of individual formations/units.
[] Massed spirit-chanting work (big attacks, etc).
[] Surveillance and sabotage.
[] Counter-sabotage.

Basic battle plan?

[] Make a push at each of the wings, forcing him to draw soldiers down from the center, in order to punch through there with the Hanin and any other support. As long as he lacks the strength and numbers to defend everywhere, he must fail everywhere.
[] Move to spread out once one reaches the hill, forcing him to have to thin his forces if he doesn't want to be flanked (would work best with using Rassit on your right). If he spreads himself thin, he'll be weak everywhere, and if not, an actual flanking manuever with a detachment of the troops becomes possible, easily, with all of the advantages it would carry.
[] Entrench hard and use the cannons and superiority to hold him to his losses, while the Rassit and other units pick away at him until his plan is evident and can be countered.
[] A left-right strike. Strike the left (their right) as if trying to go around the lake and hit them at the same time, and then hit the right hard, with as much force as possible, and then see what they do. If Jinhai weakens his left upon thinking that it's a feint… make it not a feint. Move in with what they have and hammer both sides. If he keeps his forces committed, shatter his right and roll him up.
[] Write-in.
*******

Kiralo's Continued Maneuvers 1: 1d100+15+3+1 (Previous successes)-1=48
Jinhai's Maneuvers: 1d100+14-5 (Trap)-1 (Failure of Trap)=53
Kiralo's Continued Maneuvers: 1d100+18-1=87
Jinhai: 1d100+14-2 (Trap and failure)=66
Kiralo's Analysis 1: 1d100+15+3-1=37
Kiralo's Continued Movements 3: 1d100+18-2 (Two Degrees of Failure)-1 (Illness)=52
Jinhai's Movements: 1d100+12=52, tie.
Kiralo's Analysis 2: 1d100+18-1=108
Kiralo's Movements: 1d100+18=94
Jinhai's Movements: 1d100+12=52
More Kiralo Moving: 1d100+18=64
Jinhai's Final Course Correction: 59

A/N: So, well, here it is. Wish I could show it on a map, but basically, battles and things, am I right? Also, Ayila is already locked into helping out with the Counter-Magic efforts.

Also, vote by plan.
 
[X] Plan Extend For Reserve Hammer
[X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
[X] Massing around your right (their left) in order to force the enemy to overextend there, hitting them on occasion/harassing them on that side, but allowing them to anchor on their own lake decently well.
[X] All of them should be with the reserve, not just some of them, for a big push further into the battle.

[1] Countermagic.
[2] Surveillance and sabotage.
[3] Counter-sabotage.
[4] Massed spirit-chanting work (big attacks, etc).
[5] Close support of individual formations/units.
[X] Move to spread out once one reaches the hill, forcing him to have to thin his forces if he doesn't want to be flanked (would work best with using Rassit on your right). If he spreads himself thin, he'll be weak everywhere, and if not, an actual flanking manuever with a detachment of the troops becomes possible, easily, with all of the advantages it would carry.


Odds are Jinhai knows about the cannon given he already has spies in camp.
 
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[X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
[X] Massing around your right (their left) in order to force the enemy to overextend there, hitting them on occasion/harassing them on that side, but allowing them to anchor on their own lake decently well.
[X] All of them should be with the reserve, not just some of them, for a big push further into the battle.

[1] Countermagic.
[2] Surveillance and sabotage.
[3] Counter-sabotage.
[4] Massed spirit-chanting work (big attacks, etc).
[5] Close support of individual formations/units.
[X] Move to spread out once one reaches the hill, forcing him to have to thin his forces if he doesn't want to be flanked (would work best with using Rassit on your right). If he spreads himself thin, he'll be weak everywhere, and if not, an actual flanking manuever with a detachment of the troops becomes possible, easily, with all of the advantages it would carry.


Odds are Jinhai knows about the cannon given he already has spies in camp.

Vote by plan.
 
Aren't our mages a band of roughs? I think they expect more action in this battle.
 
Right then, here is what I'm thinking.

[] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
[] Trying to get around that lake, and harassing and threatening their right (your left) side, forcing them to commit men to keep from being flanked.
[] Use them to buck up or strengthen the second line of a specific area…
-[] Right wing.

We send some of the Hanin to reinforce our right wing so they can help occupy the hills and defend the cannons once we've placed them. Our Rassit will attack the Prince's right wing to draw away men from his left so our right wing can more easily take the hills and defend the cannons. If he doesn't pull men away from his left, the Hannin we've send to reinforce our right should still help in keeping potential attacks back and his right will be too busy with our Rassit to try any funny stuff with our left.

For our mages, I don't have a precise order yet, but I think we can place Countermagic a bit lower since Ayila is already concentrating on that. With her skill and the great number of mages we have, even only a minority assisting her should be enough to counter any magic tricks from the Prince.

Battle plan, still not sure, but I suppose entrench or left-right strike would sync well with the first three options I took.
 
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The left-right strike sounds like a good plan, but the problem is that it will weaken our center. While it doesn't explicitely say so, the troops to attack both flanks have to come from somewhere.

On the plus side, if Jinhai tries to push through the center, he will have to leave his flanks exposed and the cannons on the hills will probably be able to hit him hard. On the minus side, if our center should rout, we will likely lose the battle. So, if we commit to this strategy, I would like to reinforce the center with some disciplined Hanin units.

I would also like to use our mages for the offense. As far as I remeber, we have gathered some pretty powerful mages and using them just to neutralize Jinhai's mages seems a bit of a waste.


[X] Plan Pincer

Basic plan:
[X] A left-right strike. Strike the left (their right) as if trying to go around the lake and hit them at the same time, and then hit the right hard, with as much force as possible, and then see what they do. If Jinhai weakens his left upon thinking that it's a feint… make it not a feint. Move in with what they have and hammer both sides. If he keeps his forces committed, shatter his right and roll him up.

Position:
[X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.

Rassit:
[X] Massing around your right (their left) in order to force the enemy to overextend there, hitting them on occasion/harassing them on that side, but allowing them to anchor on their own lake decently well.

Hanin:
[X] Use them to buck up or strengthen the second line of a specific area…
-[X] Center.

Mages:
[1] Close support of individual formations/units.
[2] Massed spirit-chanting work (big attacks, etc).
[3] Countermagic.
[4] Counter-sabotage.
[5] Surveillance and sabotage.

Who dares, wins. Maybe I am missing something, but I don't quite see the point of surveillance. Can't Kiralo just stand on a hill and watch the battlefield?
 
[X] Plan Entrenchment

Where to take up position?


[X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.

What will the Rassit (and light cavalry) be doing?

[X] Trying to get around that lake, and harassing and threatening their right (your left) side, forcing them to commit men to keep from being flanked.

What about some of the Hanin:

[X] Use them to buck up or strengthen the second line of a specific area…
-[X] Right wing.

Mage priorities! (Order them)

[5] Countermagic.
[1] Close support of individual formations/units.
[3] Massed spirit-chanting work (big attacks, etc).
[4] Surveillance and sabotage.
[2] Counter-sabotage.

Basic battle plan?

[X] Entrench hard and use the cannons and superiority to hold him to his losses, while the Rassit and other units pick away at him until his plan is evident and can be countered.

We take the hills and place our cannons there. We send some Hanin with them to defend the hills against possible attacks, which are likely if the Prince seeks to neutralize our cannons.

The Rassit will harass their right-wing to keep them too busy from trying anything funny against our left-wing, or atleast weaken their attack as they need to keep back troops to prevent the Rassit from flanking them, and hopefully drawing some men from the Prince's left-wing. If he doesn't pull men from his left to his right, the Rassit will have a much easier time doing their thing and if he does, he will have trouble taking the hills.

Our mages will prioritize supporting our formations and preventing sabotage, this will keep our units strong and give them a better fighting chance against the Prince's troops. Mass spirit attacks against the enemy as third priority, making them a secondary artillery sniping away at the enemy. Sabotaging the enemy I see as less important than just, you know, hitting them with overwhelming magical power, but some surveillance of the battlefield is still needed. Kiralo can't notice everything. Countermagic I left for last since we already put Ayila on that and with her strength and the large number of mages we have, even at the lowest priority we should have enough magical power to stop anything funny.

With the terrain advantage we will then entrench and let our cannons, mages and Rassit pick away at the Prince's troops until he performs his move, which we will then be in a good position to counter.

Still a bit unsure about the exact order of our mage's priorities.....
 
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[X] Plan Extend For Reserve Hammer
[X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
[X] Massing around your right (their left) in order to force the enemy to overextend there, hitting them on occasion/harassing them on that side, but allowing them to anchor on their own lake decently well.
[X] All of them should be with the reserve, not just some of them, for a big push further into the battle.

[1] Countermagic.
[2] Surveillance and sabotage.
[3] Counter-sabotage.
[4] Massed spirit-chanting work (big attacks, etc).
[5] Close support of individual formations/units.
[X] Move to spread out once one reaches the hill, forcing him to have to thin his forces if he doesn't want to be flanked (would work best with using Rassit on your right). If he spreads himself thin, he'll be weak everywhere, and if not, an actual flanking manuever with a detachment of the troops becomes possible, easily, with all of the advantages it would carry.


Odds are Jinhai knows about the cannon given he already has spies in camp.

Plan name added
 
@The Laurent I assume that "surveillance" means that the mages will keep track of what's going on around them and try to keep Kiralo up to date on the local situation, correct? But what exactly is meant by (counter-) sabotage? How would our mages sabotage the enemy and what would counter-sabotage protect against that counter-magic wouldn't?
 
@The Laurent I assume that "surveillance" means that the mages will keep track of what's going on around them and try to keep Kiralo up to date on the local situation, correct? But what exactly is meant by (counter-) sabotage? How would our mages sabotage the enemy and what would counter-sabotage protect against that counter-magic wouldn't?

There are possibly still some spies, and magic can also be used to aid secretive things. Counter-sabotage in this case is against tricks *in general* not just magic tricks.

Aiding in sabotage is helping in any tricks, using magic in a very distinct way that's different enough from 'aiding' and 'mass attacks' that I decided to split it off.

******

Also, everyone, feel free to ask questions.
 
Also, this isn't a vote, but I figured I'd give you a heads up. Kiralo is going to send some of his Scout Rassit and others to go and see whether the Csrae army is coming/whether it'll reach the battle in time, and if not, they're going to be given instructions on what they should do instead (in preparation for if this battle turns out to be a loss.) And if they can reach the battle in time, obviously they'll be spurred on to do so.
 
Also, this isn't a vote, but I figured I'd give you a heads up. Kiralo is going to send some of his Scout Rassit and others to go and see whether the Csrae army is coming/whether it'll reach the battle in time, and if not, they're going to be given instructions on what they should do instead (in preparation for if this battle turns out to be a loss.) And if they can reach the battle in time, obviously they'll be spurred on to do so.
You mean the Hari-Nat army? Are battles in Csirit (excluding the skirmish phase we already went through) usually decided in a single day or is it common for them to take place over multiple days?
Adhoc vote count started by Random Member on Jun 16, 2017 at 7:32 AM, finished with 21 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] Plan Entrenchment
    [X] Plan Extend For Reserve Hammer
    [X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
    [X] Massing around your right (their left) in order to force the enemy to overextend there, hitting them on occasion/harassing them on that side, but allowing them to anchor on their own lake decently well.
    [X] Use them to buck up or strengthen the second line of a specific area…
    [X] All of them should be with the reserve, not just some of them, for a big push further into the battle.
    [X] Move to spread out once one reaches the hill, forcing him to have to thin his forces if he doesn't want to be flanked (would work best with using Rassit on your right). If he spreads himself thin, he'll be weak everywhere, and if not, an actual flanking manuever with a detachment of the troops becomes possible, easily, with all of the advantages it would carry.
    [X] Plan Pincer
    [X] A left-right strike. Strike the left (their right) as if trying to go around the lake and hit them at the same time, and then hit the right hard, with as much force as possible, and then see what they do. If Jinhai weakens his left upon thinking that it's a feint… make it not a feint. Move in with what they have and hammer both sides. If he keeps his forces committed, shatter his right and roll him up.
    -[X] Center.
    [X] Trying to get around that lake, and harassing and threatening their right (your left) side, forcing them to commit men to keep from being flanked.
    -[X] Right wing.
    [X] Entrench hard and use the cannons and superiority to hold him to his losses, while the Rassit and other units pick away at him until his plan is evident and can be countered.

Adhoc vote count started by Random Member on Jun 16, 2017 at 7:33 AM, finished with 21 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] Plan Entrenchment
    [X] Plan Extend For Reserve Hammer
    [X] Plan Extend For Reserve Hammer
    [X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
    [X] Massing around your right (their left) in order to force the enemy to overextend there, hitting them on occasion/harassing them on that side, but allowing them to anchor on their own lake decently well.
    [X] All of them should be with the reserve, not just some of them, for a big push further into the battle.
    [X] Move to spread out once one reaches the hill, forcing him to have to thin his forces if he doesn't want to be flanked (would work best with using Rassit on your right). If he spreads himself thin, he'll be weak everywhere, and if not, an actual flanking manuever with a detachment of the troops becomes possible, easily, with all of the advantages it would carry.
    [X] Plan Pincer
    [X] A left-right strike. Strike the left (their right) as if trying to go around the lake and hit them at the same time, and then hit the right hard, with as much force as possible, and then see what they do. If Jinhai weakens his left upon thinking that it's a feint… make it not a feint. Move in with what they have and hammer both sides. If he keeps his forces committed, shatter his right and roll him up.
    [X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
    [X] Massing around your right (their left) in order to force the enemy to overextend there, hitting them on occasion/harassing them on that side, but allowing them to anchor on their own lake decently well.
    [X] Use them to buck up or strengthen the second line of a specific area…
    -[X] Center.
    [X] Plan Entrenchment
    [X] With the left-flank anchored in the lake, and move forward with the right to immediately occupy the hills in the early hours before dawn/as the fight starts, and then rain down destruction with the cannons, hopefully.
    [X] Trying to get around that lake, and harassing and threatening their right (your left) side, forcing them to commit men to keep from being flanked.
    [X] Use them to buck up or strengthen the second line of a specific area…
    -[X] Right wing.
    [X] Entrench hard and use the cannons and superiority to hold him to his losses, while the Rassit and other units pick away at him until his plan is evident and can be countered.
 
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