Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2)

All of this is going to be public even if it's not public. You obviously want it known that, as a proper and civilized human being, you horribly tortured this monster before executing him in a painful, messy way.

Anything else would be barbaric.
So, execution without torture would be offense onto gods or something?
 
So, execution without torture would be offense onto gods or something?

Not necessarily? But in this case, it'd be thought of as very lax. Because how else are you going to get his secrets out of him and make sure that he regrets it? Judicial torture is not only legal, it's often required as part of making sure people don't slack off and let the guilty get away. :V
 
...dude is so weird tho. He's accusing us of incompetence, and in the same breath claims we will defeat Jinhai and then usurp the Emperor. Like, you'd think that was the opposite of inept.
 
...dude is so weird tho. He's accusing us of incompetence, and in the same breath claims we will defeat Jinhai and then usurp the Emperor. Like, you'd think that was the opposite of inept.
The gods will support the emperor. No way Jinhai will win. Meanwhile, we rely on women and foreigners so we are mad and impious.

You could say the army is mighty enough to win despite our incompetence in trusting the wrong people and that the people we trust in show we can't be trusted or care for the Csirstian way.
 
[X] Have the servant and Lacquan tortured until they confess to being agents of Prince Jinhai, planning on assassinating the leadership and planning on overthrowing the Emperor. It should be a quick way to deal with them, and might fire up the soldiers and leaders and weaken dissent.
 
[X] Have the servant and Lacquan tortured until they confess to being agents of Prince Jinhai, planning on assassinating the leadership and planning on overthrowing the Emperor. It should be a quick way to deal with them, and might fire up the soldiers and leaders and weaken dissent.
 
[X] Have the servant and Lacquan tortured until they confess to being agents of Prince Jinhai, planning on assassinating the leadership and planning on overthrowing the Emperor. It should be a quick way to deal with them, and might fire up the soldiers and leaders and weaken dissent.
 
Oh forget it. This bullshit has gone on long enough.

[X] Execute Lacquan here and begin the purges. There are disloyal elements among the leadership, who think that Kiralo is a fool, and that he is a traitor. They must be shown the error of their ways. The rest of the army will comply, out of fear and obedience, and Kiralo will win this war, even if he has to drag the ungrateful dogs across the finish line.

We shall cut out this cancerous infection from our army and cauterize the wound with the blood of the traitors. Fear shall keep the rest of them in line. And if anyone has a problem with this, they can complain to Kiralo's sword.
 
Oh forget it. This bullshit has gone on long enough.

[X] Execute Lacquan here and begin the purges. There are disloyal elements among the leadership, who think that Kiralo is a fool, and that he is a traitor. They must be shown the error of their ways. The rest of the army will comply, out of fear and obedience, and Kiralo will win this war, even if he has to drag the ungrateful dogs across the finish line.

We shall cut out this cancerous infection from our army and cauterize the wound with the blood of the traitors. Fear shall keep the rest of them in line. And if anyone has a problem with this, they can complain to Kiralo's sword.
You want to purge a big part of the chain of command a week or two before the battle?

[X] Have the servant and Lacquan tortured until they confess to being agents of Prince Jinhai, planning on assassinating the leadership and planning on overthrowing the Emperor. It should be a quick way to deal with them, and might fire up the soldiers and leaders and weaken dissent.
 
[x] Capture and begin to interrogate Lacquan. But there might not be time to get the full story before the battle comes, and in the meantime, despite any official announcements, people might speculate. Or might try to kill him to shut him up.

There are always more assassins. Torturing merely for confession and execution does nothing to find them. Purges without concrete information can miss the killers entirely while damaging our force. There are still a few days before battle. While there is time scout, scout and scout again interrogate and watch. If we get nothing actionable we can still have him sawed in half lengthways later and in the meantime the uncertainty will keep our people alert.
 
[x] Capture and begin to interrogate Lacquan. But there might not be time to get the full story before the battle comes, and in the meantime, despite any official announcements, people might speculate. Or might try to kill him to shut him up.

If nothing else, someone trying to kill him also tells us something.
 
[x] Capture and begin to interrogate Lacquan. But there might not be time to get the full story before the battle comes, and in the meantime, despite any official announcements, people might speculate. Or might try to kill him to shut him up.
 
You want to purge a big part of the chain of command a week or two before the battle?
It's better than having traitors or people who think we're stupid in those positions and hopefully it won't be that many commanders. Sure, finding replacements is going to be a headache, but something is going to cause a headache no matter what we pick. This is atleast something Kiralo should be familiar with. Sudden death is a thing that happens to quite alot of commanders during war so he must have thought of some possible replacements just in case. And they won't think Kiralo is a fool or a traitor once they see where that train of thought will lead them.
 
Current tally btw.
Vote Tally : Original - Fantasy - Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2) | Page 117 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.8.2

[X] Have the servant and Lacquan tortured until they confess to being agents of Prince Jinhai, planning on assassinating the leadership and planning on overthrowing the Emperor. It should be a quick way to deal with them, and might fire up the soldiers and leaders and weaken dissent.
No. of Votes: 6

[x] Capture and begin to interrogate Lacquan. But there might not be time to get the full story before the battle comes, and in the meantime, despite any official announcements, people might speculate. Or might try to kill him to shut him up.
No. of Votes: 3

[X] Execute Lacquan here and begin the purges. There are disloyal elements among the leadership, who think that Kiralo is a fool, and that he is a traitor. They must be shown the error of their ways. The rest of the army will comply, out of fear and obedience, and Kiralo will win this war, even if he has to drag the ungrateful dogs across the finish line.
No. of Votes: 1

Total No. of Voters: 10
 
Turn 11B--Results, B
Turn 11B--Results, B

Kiralo did not personally oversee the torture. That was a Southlander habit, where vindictive Princes sometimes stepped in to watch the suffering of their enemies. Things in the Southlands sometimes felt more personal and visceral than here up north, where torture was a regular and respected judicial method. But that meant that letting amateurs in was considered bad form, and more than that, a man who went to watch torture sullied its noble purposes, and was likely possessing of a sick mind.

It was not a noble's sport, not like it was in the Southlands. That was one thing that Kiralo respected about Csirit. He did not think he would have liked to watch even his enemies be tortured, and in the Southlands, that was not seen as a character flaw… but it was questionable.

In a world where he'd taken power in some city, where he'd somehow found his way to the top, he'd be just as lonely and isolated as he felt now, sometimes, but with far more added to his burden.

Each place was different: Csirit had far more in the way of poisons than the Southlands could ever imagine, and the Southlands didn't care about the formality of a confession.

So he gave an order and then saw no more of Laquan or the unfortunate servant. At least, not at first. They would be tortured, and they would say what Kiralo wanted. It was a cold sort of mindset, but at the moment Kiralo felt like a cold, sick man.

The glow was already fading from his day of peace, and he could picture the end in sight now, could try to tell himself that these were the struggles of a desperate man, and yet the true desperate figures were being tortured somewhere.

They confessed, and the word got out, and person after person tried to visit to reassure him of their loyalty, terrified at what he'd do.

They didn't know him, Kiralo thought, sick and annoyed. His stomach was on fire and anything he ate became inflamed and unbalanced, while he sweated and groaned, headaches coming and going, body fighting him every step of the way. He wasn't going to die, that the doctors declared, but that didn't mean he was in good health.

He had had to bribe the doctors, because he knew his enemies might use it as an excuse to honorably retire him, to have him temporarily hand control of the army to them, and then for that temporary control to allow them to gain the credit for the victory they were starting to expect. Things were going his way, and they knew it. His enemies…

His enemy especially. Jinhai's options were narrowing. They were now within a few days of each other, and Jinhai couldn't possibly evade Kiralo. Actually, if he were persuasive enough and lucky enough, he could pack in his supplies and try to march around, turn it into a chase.

Kiralo imagined a world where that happened, but Hari-Nat had not sent their troops. It'd be down to the will of the Gods, because if Kiralo were faster, or there was a day or two of rains, or a night march, or any number of things going wrong, then that'd be it. But if he made it into Csrae, he could head for the capital, and once there?

He couldn't besiege the capital, not before Kiralo's forces arrived, but if Kiralo were creating a perfect path to an unlikely victory, then imagine that Jinhai had a source in the capital that would open the gate and perhaps even turn part of the army against itself.

Once he had his men forted up in the capital, then Kiralo would have a few options, especially once the Emperor suddenly declared Jinhai his protector. The military experts and sages of past generations all agreed; the worst folly was to besiege a walled city, and that would work both ways. Sieges were an art that Kiralo had little experience in.

But because Hari-Nat's forces were there, even if their numbers only reached half of Jinhai's, or even less, Jinhai couldn't be sure of smashing through them, especially if they dug in and blocked the roads, before Kiralo caught up behind and slaughtered his army from the rear.

The only winning route was to win, and not merely a small victory but a rout to go down in history, a slaughter that left Jinhai the master of an army that could march to Hari-Nat and make a deal to get through, perhaps make them realize that their cause was lost.

If it was a bloody victory of the sort that left both sides exhausted, then the Empire itself might be lost, with neither side having the strength to press on, and yet also not having the will to retreat or find their way to peace.

Kiralo believed he could win such a war, but not in a season. It would be a matter of moving the forces in Irit and fighting with desperation and patience.

And so it would all come down to a battle, as if this were an old story, as if that were what war was about.

But it was a battle that Kiralo thought he could win. And even his greatest skeptics knew it. Each victory he wracked up from here on would propel him forward. But how far? And how high? He knew that many feared his power.

But what would they do to stop him?

*******

Yis'il'in, the spirit that personified human endurance. He whispered the name often, drawing on that strength to stay upright, to ride and ride out even though he wanted to collapse. He knew that there were generals who rode by carriage, but as he drew closer to a fight, the last thing he wanted was even the smallest scent of weakness.

Hi'lao'gai, a spirit of the air that he had to order again and again to go through his lungs, which had been slightly damaged by one of the poisons.

Gao-ren, a spirit of water, that brought balance to his harmonies. He chanted the name often, under his breath, a litany.

These names, dozens of names, for what was the world if it were not named, if it were not controlled and centered. The Gods had names, but you could not command them with such petty names. And you looked up the general names of a spirit to get a grip on it and learn its true, secret name, unique to each spirit, sometimes a word or sometimes a thought, a feeling, a sensation.

Wind whispering through the trees watched for assassins, as other spirits stuck closer.

There were three more attempts. The last one used a soldier that had been controlled by paper charms, filled with potent spirits. That last attempt was clearly Prince Jinhai alone, and just as clearly meant to make Kiralo distrust his own Mages, who were some of the only people capable enough to do something like that. After all, the weaker the paper charm, the weaker the scrolls, the more likely that the spirits on a person would help them break free at an inopportune time. And even if you did it right, then what? You had control, vague control of the sort that was obvious, over a single person.

It was far less useful than it might seem at first, but as a move to frame his Mages? It was clearly meant to hit in such a way that Kiralo would go after them.

Instead, he smiled and shook his head, wiping the blood off his armor.

*******

On the day Laquan finally died, and Kiralo watched from the distance, Kueli approached him. "It's a mistake, you know."

"Is it?"

"They will follow you, but that first attempt, it proves that you have an enemy back in court, and now you can't learn who he was."

"He could be acting alone," Kiralo said, without conviction.

"That man? No. I doubt it," Kueli said. "Remember, I'm the closest thing you have to a spymaster too, when I'm not being handsome, dashing, and brilliant. And that's what I think. And you're the man on horseback. You said it yourself, you told me. If you win you'll have power and latitude that few men have possessed without years and years of work. That bastard father of yours had to scheme and work for quite some time just to do what you could do in a single battle. And that means your enemies will be watching out for you."

"I know this! And I know that killing him now means I know less, but I need to survive now, I can look at his papers or guess or plan something out later." Kiralo fell into a coughing fit for a moment, and then looked up, eyes red and angry. "Once he's dead…"

"Then the Typhoon."

"And then the capital. And then something more than what I had before," Kiralo said. "And I hope you will be there with me. I could use you, and once you're a proud retainer, perhaps…"

"I will stay with you, and so will the Wind-Dancers, if you have money to pay us." Kueli grinned, "Employer and Captain all in one. You can pay yourself your own fee if you'd like."

Kiralo laughed, and this time it didn't turn into a cough.

The road lay ahead, but at least he had someone to help shoulder the burden with him.

The battle was almost here.

No news from the world, no need for the world, just another decision.

Kiralo, due to good movement rolls and the situation as a whole, controls the general battlefield. Not in totality, but enough that he can narrow down the area/region.

[] Kiralo could slow down his movements, to try to angle the battlefield as a lake-filled region that also has a number of small hills that might be useful for placing cannons on, depending on the landscape. He can anchor his forces against a lake if need be. It'd involve waiting a little, but he can shift to keep it from being easy for Jinhai to get past him...and if he does, then that's Jinhai's lost.
[] Speed up a little. There is some good, dry farmland in an area with quite a few small towns, villages, and castles whose walls could make a good place to put cannons if the fight shifts the right way, and if it doesn't, then there's still good ground for deploying the Rassit, because the flanks will be wide open on plains like that.
[] Keep to the course, but Kiralo has a hunch that Jinhai will shift south. Try to meet him at one of the river crossings in that area. With the river as an anchor, it does present a somewhat more closed-in battlefield in one sense, that if Jinhai is smart and lucky with positioning he could protect at least one of his flanks, but it also means there's a chance Jinhai could be caught with his army in mid-crossing, and Kiralo can use the damp ground and the river itself as protection for his cannons and other more vulnerable forces.

*******

A/N: So, uh, here you go.
 
Last edited:
[X] Speed up a little. There is some good, dry farmland in an area with quite a few small towns, villages, and castles whose walls could make a good place to put cannons if the fight shifts the right way, and if it doesn't, then there's still good ground for deploying the Rassit, because the flanks will be wide open on plains like that.
 
Is.... is it over? Have we survived all attempts?

[X] Speed up a little. There is some good, dry farmland in an area with quite a few small towns, villages, and castles whose walls could make a good place to put cannons if the fight shifts the right way, and if it doesn't, then there's still good ground for deploying the Rassit, because the flanks will be wide open on plains like that.

The other terrains don't allow us to use the Rassit as well. Of course, if we want to play defensive and simply block the Prince and force him to attack unfavorable terrain, the other options are better. And speeding up might tire out our men.
 
[X] Kiralo could slow down his movements, to try to angle the battlefield as a lake-filled region that also has a number of small hills that might be useful for placing cannons on, depending on the landscape. He can anchor his forces against a lake if need be. It'd involve waiting a little, but he can shift to keep it from being easy for Jinhai to get past him...and if he does, then that's Jinhai's lost.

We have reinforcements coming and have cannon, Jinhai does not. Lets take advantage of that fact.
 
[X] Kiralo could slow down his movements, to try to angle the battlefield as a lake-filled region that also has a number of small hills that might be useful for placing cannons on, depending on the landscape. He can anchor his forces against a lake if need be. It'd involve waiting a little, but he can shift to keep it from being easy for Jinhai to get past him...and if he does, then that's Jinhai's lost.

We have reinforcements coming and have cannon, Jinhai does not. Lets take advantage of that fact.
Didn't we order the army of Hari-Nat to reinforce a city on the border between Csrae and Hirand and stay there in case the Prince tries to get past us? Anyway, what makes you so sure Jinhai doesn't have cannons?
 
[X] Speed up a little. There is some good, dry farmland in an area with quite a few small towns, villages, and castles whose walls could make a good place to put cannons if the fight shifts the right way, and if it doesn't, then there's still good ground for deploying the Rassit, because the flanks will be wide open on plains like that.

I'm afraid to take third option because Jinhai -is- smart and lucky. Have you seen his dice rolls? D:
 
[X] Speed up a little. There is some good, dry farmland in an area with quite a few small towns, villages, and castles whose walls could make a good place to put cannons if the fight shifts the right way, and if it doesn't, then there's still good ground for deploying the Rassit, because the flanks will be wide open on plains like that.
 
Didn't we order the army of Hari-Nat to reinforce a city on the border between Csrae and Hirand and stay there in case the Prince tries to get past us? Anyway, what makes you so sure Jinhai doesn't have cannons?
No, that was because we were ahead of them by a couple weeks and it wasn't wise to slow down particularly as it's been mentioned that the roads start struggling when moving a 100k+ army which is what we had.

There should be no reason that they haven't started moving forward towards the front now that Jinhai committed to going into Hirand and politically it suits their goals fine as Hari-Nat's governor bringing such a large force was so he could acquire prestige for his son. Similarly the army we gathered in Irit should have marched out into Basrat as there is no one to oppose them.

[X] Kiralo could slow down his movements, to try to angle the battlefield as a lake-filled region that also has a number of small hills that might be useful for placing cannons on, depending on the landscape. He can anchor his forces against a lake if need be. It'd involve waiting a little, but he can shift to keep it from being easy for Jinhai to get past him...and if he does, then that's Jinhai's lost.
 
Back
Top