Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

Will our charging units like say, the 72nd human and our cavalry be able to specifically charge through the routing enemy units to inflict casualties as they go for their main targets? I think that's how it works now, but I'm not sure if it happens automatically, or if we have to specifically point out it's happening.

You can only Charge one target, alas. So your cavalry might move through several enemy Units and choose to Charge one of them, or move through them and Charge a different Unit. There's no automatic damaging of Routed Units that you move through. I understand the arguments for it from a realism perspective, but from an action economy perspective, it's not happening.
 
You can only Charge one target, alas. So your cavalry might move through several enemy Units and choose to Charge one of them, or move through them and Charge a different Unit. There's no automatic damaging of Routed Units that you move through. I understand the arguments for it from a realism perspective, but from an action economy perspective, it's not happening.

Not relevant, but a proposal: charging through a unit could potentially slow down their ability to Rest or stop at that location or something like that? Or it could disrupt the Rest process? Not sure.
 
@Photomajig Sorry for bugging you, but the XP for the 10th Hum Art in the table should be at 11 rather than 10. If you look at last turn, they were at 10/5, and they earned (10+1) XP this turn.

While I'm mostly fine with this plan, I do have some points of criticism
  • For one, why not try to move one unit of cavalry further south? I don't think both can charge anyways, and they are somewhat unlikely to survive in the open. Moving the 108th SE,E could allow us to catch up with one unit of artillery, plus push from the south.
  • Charging the 2nd Hum Hsr with the lancers seems dubious to me. They are 3 tiles away, with the 2nd hussars likely going away before the lancers can catch them. Why not use them for a charge alongside the road up the 75th instead? The infantry there is far less free to move out of the way, and lancers would do a great job at clearing blocking infantry there.
 
Looks good to me in general, but why focus all artillery fire on his 2nd Hum hussars, rather than the 1st? The 1st has already taken Cohesion damage, and they are an Offensive Genius and thus more threatening.
For one, why not try to move one unit of cavalry further south? I don't think both can charge anyways, and they are somewhat unlikely to survive in the open. Moving the 108th SE,E could allow us to catch up with one unit of artillery, plus push from the south.
I don't think going south with the 108th is worth it, it feels like a risky move with the 14th right there and his other unit of halfling jaegers somewhere in the South. The terrain in the south is frankly terrible for cavalry, so sending the 108th there causes them to lose their main advantage, the mobility. Going SE, E puts the 108th right next to the 14th Hum, in a tile that likely can be shot by the hidden Jaegers all in order to try to strike a unit of artillery that have likely already moved back, meaning the 108th would have to spend at least one additional turn to reach them. I think the 108th can be far more in the center, by helping fight for the road. Sending both cavalry to charge his artillery is the right move I think, since it is likely that one of the units will rout on the way there.
Charging the 2nd Hum Hsr with the lancers seems dubious to me. They are 3 tiles away, with the 2nd hussars likely going away before the lancers can catch them. Why not use them for a charge alongside the road up the 75th instead? The infantry there is far less free to move out of the way, and lancers would do a great job at clearing blocking infantry there.
I agree with this, I think charging along the road is better.
 
For one, why not try to move one unit of cavalry further south? I don't think both can charge anyways, and they are somewhat unlikely to survive in the open. Moving the 108th SE,E could allow us to catch up with one unit of artillery, plus push from the south.

Two reasons:
1) I do think both cavalry can charge, both because I expect the 55th to get routed anyway by enemy shooting and because there is space for both of them at the 75th anyway if both come true
2) there is no great way to go south, the 14th blocks the easy way and in pretty sure the 20th Jaegers are hidden SE of the 14th. The Dwarven Volunteers can hopefully be captured in 2/3 turns by having our cav charge over the mountains south.


Charging the 2nd Hum Hsr with the lancers seems dubious to me. They are 3 tiles away, with the 2nd hussars likely going away before the lancers can catch them. Why not use them for a charge alongside the road up the 75th instead? The infantry there is far less free to move out of the way, and lancers would do a great job at clearing blocking infantry there

I expect the 2nd Hussars to be moving closer to us in some way as part of it's screening process, so I expect our Lancers to be able to hit them in the process - its their entire job to harry us and stop our charges after all.

I prefer charging the hussars both because damage against them is more valuable than damage against normal Infantry ( because they are a threat now, cavalry can sustain casualties worse with their 500 people and cause they have the best chances to have their attacks matter generally) and also because they can move to stop us charging them.

I don't see a great other target - the 177th is getting charged by 2 regiments already and we are unlikely to simply rout the 102nd with one charge
 
Looks good to me in general, but why focus all artillery fire on his 2nd Hum hussars, rather than the 1st? The 1st has already taken Cohesion damage, and they are an Offensive Genius and thus more threatening.

I concentrated anything on the 2nd because it's the one that can get hit by the lancers. I wouldn't have a problem with putting the artillery and 72nd on the 1st though.

I agree with this, I think charging along the road is better

Could you clarify what you mean? I don't understand how the lancers are charging along the road/what they are charging
 
Looks good to me in general, but why focus all artillery fire on his 2nd Hum hussars, rather than the 1st? The 1st has already taken Cohesion damage, and they are an Offensive Genius and thus more threatening.
Line of sight.
1) I do think both cavalry can charge, both because I expect the 55th to get routed anyway by enemy shooting and because there is space for both of them at the 75th anyway if both come true
Not a safe assumption, especially if the 75th stops shooting to retreat,
I don't think going south with the 108th is worth it, it feels like a risky move with the 14th right there and his other unit of halfling jaegers somewhere in the South.
2) there is no great way to go south, the 14th blocks the easy way and in pretty sure the 20th Jaegers are hidden SE of the 14th. The Dwarven Volunteers can hopefully be captured in 2/3 turns by having our cav charge over the mountains south.
Not necessarily. They could be moving up on the hill this turn, which would make sense if they attempt to flee the battlefield.
I expect the 2nd Hussars to be moving closer to us in some way as part of it's screening process, so I expect our Lancers to be able to hit them in the process - its their entire job to harry us and stop our charges after all.

I prefer charging the hussars both because damage against them is more valuable than damage against normal Infantry ( because they are a threat now, cavalry can sustain casualties worse with their 500 people and cause they have the best chances to have their attacks matter generally) and also because they can move to stop us charging them.
While that is possible, that's not necessarily the case. They could be set up to ready charge themselves, or ty to stall our infantry the north. A lancer charge E,E,SE,E still hits the hussars if they move southwards, while doing something of use if the hussars don't move as expected. The lancers have a decent chance of routing even fairly tough units like the 102nd.
 

I don't think there's a problem with Los but someone can check, I just did it to put all damage at one enemy unit, it can easily be changed.

Not a safe assumption, especially if the 75th stops shooting to retreat

We can put in the 55th orders to move out of the way after it's charge to allow the 108th to attack after.

Not necessarily. They could be moving up on the hill this turn, which would make sense if they attempt to flee the battlefield

I'm not sure what the plan going south is then though? With a solid wall of full cohesion infantry and no good way for us to support them, the infantry in the south could just spend 1-2 turns routing the 108th and get away Scot free.

This is still a managed retreat where enemy units can fight back.

Line of sight.

Not a safe assumption, especially if the 75th stops shooting to retreat,


Not necessarily. They could be moving up on the hill this turn, which would make sense if they attempt to flee the battlefield.

While that is possible, that's not necessarily the case. They could be set up to ready charge themselves, or ty to stall our infantry the north. A lancer charge E,E,SE,E still hits the hussars if they move southwards, while doing something of use if the hussars don't move as expected. The lancers have a decent chance of routing even fairly tough units like the 102nd.

Both if they ready charge and if they hit north the lancers will still hit them though.

And if your calcs are correct, shouldn't the 102nd still be nearly full cohesion? Unless they crit the lancers can't rout the 102nd
 
Not relevant, but a proposal: charging through a unit could potentially slow down their ability to Rest or stop at that location or something like that? Or it could disrupt the Rest process? Not sure.

That's definitely fair, yeah. I'll have it stop an Unit from Resting.

@Photomajig Sorry for bugging you, but the XP for the 10th Hum Art in the table should be at 11 rather than 10. If you look at last turn, they were at 10/5, and they earned (10+1) XP this turn.

Fixed.
 
I'm not sure what the plan going south is then though? With a solid wall of full cohesion infantry and no good way for us to support them, the infantry in the south could just spend 1-2 turns routing the 108th and get away Scot free.

This is still a managed retreat where enemy units can fight back.
I don't think the southern infantry will fight, they are far away and want to retreat. We aren't playing against pawns perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the collective. The plan is to put one unit of hussars in the south, where they could exploit any emerging gaps (moving either trough the forest hill, or the forest south-east of them) in order to kill the dwarven volunteer artillery.
Both if they ready charge and if they hit north the lancers will still hit them though.
No, they can only be reached if they move 2 tiles toward us, which isn't necessarily the case. If they move 2 tiles east after initial charging, the lancers won't hit them.
And if your calcs are correct, shouldn't the 102nd still be nearly full cohesion? Unless they crit the lancers can't rout the 102nd
As of this turn, they are at 10-ish cohesion due to the cavalry charge trough the dwarves. 14 cohesion-4 = 10. Which is still high, but you are also planning to charge them using the hussars, given that they block the way to the 75th. Routing a 10 cohesion unit with 2 cav charges takes some luck, but is doeable (5 cohesion damage per charge-> 40 casulties due to bonus, one roll at 60 plus a double advantage roll at 40 or higher.) Even if they brace, routing them is on the table, which would open up options.
 
Last edited:
I don't think the southern infantry will fight, they are far away and want to retreat. We aren't playing against pawns perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the collective. The plan is to put one unit of hussars in the south, where they could exploit any emerging gaps (moving either trough the forest hill, or the forest south-east of them) in order to kill the dwarven volunteer artillery

If the southern infantry fights they can ensure that they leave the battle unthreathend, if they don't they'll get harassed by cavalry the whole way east. I am not sure how we can expect them not to fight?

No, they can only be reached if they move 2 tiles toward us, which isn't necessarily the case. If they move 2 tiles east after initial charging, the lancers won't hit them

You are worried about the 2nd charging NW, W, E? We could have the lancers charge the 2nd and switch to the 102nd if that's not possible, couldn't we?


As of this turn, they are at 10-ish cohesion due to the cavalry charge trough the dwarves. 14 cohesion-4 = 10. Which is still high, but you are also planning to charge them using the hussars, given that they block the way to the 75th. Routing a 10 cohesion unit with 2 cav charges takes some luck, but is doeable (5 cohesion damage per charge-> 40 casulties due to bonus, one roll at 60 plus a double advantage roll at 40 or higher.) Even if they brace, routing them is on the table, which would open up options

Huh? No I'm not planning on charging the hussars at the 102nd. either the 102nd stands where it is allowing the hussars to move through the gap, or it disengages east, stopping nothing or it moves E, Ne, E at which point it doesnt stand in the way anymore
 
Ultimately, every even battle is a slog if you can't maneuver, and between the mud and the chokepoint, neither side could really maneuver here, at least not without taking unacceptable risks. That's just the truth of warfare in this or, really, any era. We just have more tools for mobility in the present.
This battle made me think of the Battle of Wagram; it amounted to just a brutal slugging match with no brilliant moves by either side (though Napoleon was being Napoleon by taking a 10-minute nap while his position was under fire from Austrian artillery)

This has been a victory for Durand, but at what cost? How badly has her army been mauled?
 
This has been a victory for Durand, but at what cost? How badly has her army been mauled?

Our army is honestly fine? I will admit at being a bit smug that going on the spending spree for troops would have been correct, but we can still replace most of our casualties and deal with Wachenheim and once we are back in Antreville we can plunder the 6th.

Even with green replacements the veterancy of the army went up, especially the artillery.

The question at hand is how much we can manage to hurt Wachenheim with capturing troops to pad that KDA
 
Last edited:
If the southern infantry fights they can ensure that they leave the battle unthreathend, if they don't they'll get harassed by cavalry the whole way east. I am not sure how we can expect them not to fight?
If they fight, they spend more time on a battlefield without allied units around them to support; giving us more time to bring additional units in to capture in. From a bird's eye view, fighting makes sense, but those units are only going to consider their local information and their position.
You are worried about the 2nd charging NW, W, E? We could have the lancers charge the 2nd and switch to the 102nd if that's not possible, couldn't we?
No, we couldn't. The lancers can't actually determine if the 2nd moves into range before the window of opportunity for a charge passed.
Huh? No I'm not planning on charging the hussars at the 102nd. either the 102nd stands where it is allowing the hussars to move through the gap
I don't think there is a gap. Remember, units get a baseline of 5 concealment on this map, with the lancers being the one unit that has LoS on the tile east of the road. Since they have 3 spotting, any unit there would be hidden. And even if there was, somebody could be moved into the tile from any of the neighbouring tiles. I think charging alongside the road makes more sense, considering that this path only takes 2 movement points across a road, rather than 3 across 2 road tiles and field; plus allowing cavalry to protect themselves on the hills.
 
If they fight, they spend more time on a battlefield without allied units around them to support; giving us more time to bring additional units in to capture in. From a bird's eye view, fighting makes sense, but those units are only going to consider their local information and their position.

And their local position is that they can either fight off the cavalry now or get run down while trying to run away. Relying on our enemy being stupid is not a great strategy.

No, we couldn't. The lancers can't actually determine if the 2nd moves into range before the window of opportunity for a charge passed.

We can? Have the lancers charge E,E. At this point, 4 movement points have passed, either the hussars have moved and they can be charged, so the lancers charge, the hussars haven't moved so they can be charged or they have moved and can't be charged, which means the lancers charge the Infantry.


don't think there is a gap. Remember, units get a baseline of 5 concealment on this map, with the lancers being the one unit that has LoS on the tile east of the road. Since they have 3 spotting, any unit there would be hidden. And even if there was, somebody could be moved into the tile from any of the neighbouring tiles. I think charging alongside the road makes more sense, considering that this path only takes 2 movement points across a road, rather than 3 across 2 road tiles and field; plus allowing cavalry to protect themselves on the hills

You are talking about charging along the road and I still don't understand what y'all are talking about, could you maybe show it on a map?

Also even if there is a unit east of the road, it's going to move back so there will still be a gap
 
Last edited:
And their local position is that they can either fight off the cavalry now or get run down while trying to run away. Relying on our enemy being stupid is not a great strategy.
They wouldn't get run down, given how the terrain around them is pretty rough, they are quite close to the edge of the map and the cavalry isn't necessarily interested in them. Also, the enemy doesn't actually know the cohesion of our cavalry, especially at the unit level. I don't expect them to stand and fight on their own, since they have no reason to expect the cavalry to be at low cohesion and coordination between the remaining units to break down. They want to save their hide, and attacking cavalry puts them more into perceived danger.
We can? Have the lancers charge E,E. At this point, 4 movement points have passed, either the hussars have moved and they can be charged, so the lancers charge, the hussars haven't moved so they can be charged or they have moved and can't be charged, which means the lancers charge the Infantry.
At which point you might as well spell the charging path out.
You are talking about charging along the road and I still don't understand what y'all are talking about, could you maybe show it on a map?
To illustrate the path here, tale the 55th. My proposal would be Charge (NE,E,SE,E,E), which tries to use the road leading to the last position of the 75th.
 
They wouldn't get run down, given how the terrain around them is pretty rough, they are quite close to the edge of the map and the cavalry isn't necessarily interested in them. Also, the enemy doesn't actually know the cohesion of our cavalry, especially at the unit level. I don't expect them to stand and fight on their own, since they have no reason to expect the cavalry to be at low cohesion and coordination between the remaining units to break down. They want to save their hide, and attacking cavalry puts them more into perceived danger.

Um, I have been assuming that we would be sending the 108th south all this time, but it would still be the superior decision for the southern infantry to fight back against the cavalry because the cavalry can literally just prevent the infantry from escaping in the first place by standing in their way.

The 14th would need 4 turns to get away, the 20th Jaegers need even more time. Even if we assume that the cavalry spends some time to attack the artillery first, there is still enough time for it to position itself east in the way of the infantry.

Though even if they don't attack, sending stuff south is still not necessary. In these 4 turns we will be done in the north so our cavalry can just move south over the hills and stop the infantry from escaping.

At which point you might as well spell the charging path out.

I am honestly not sure what you mean here? I showed here there are two possiblr approaches the lancers would take after the initial charge, so how does spelling the path out work together with that?


To illustrate the path here, tale the 55th. My proposal would be Charge (NE,E,SE,E,E), which tries to use the road leading to the last position of the 75th.

Uhh, this is my proposed charge? Like I'm not specifying because the exact circumstances of the battle may change stuff(maybe the 102nd disengages east)
 
I checked where units should be. @Photomajig is the 84th Elv in the east the 86th Elv?

Unit
Att.
Mun.
Con.
Spt.Where?
Lie 1st Hum Hsr+0?3?9On Map
Lie 2nd Hum Hsr+0?3?9On Map
Gal 14th Half Jäg-10*?53On Map
Gal 20th Half Jäg+10?53SE of 14th(probably moving NE?
Dau 86th Elv-10*?35Is this the 84th on the map? last seen turn 7
Dau 90th Elv-20*?35On Map
Dau 93rd Elv-10*?35Last seen routing turn 7, likely somewhere back?
Bil 15th Dwa-20*?33On Map
Bil 20th Dwa-20*?33Moved E of 102nd, may have moved further
Daur 14th Hum+0?33On Map
Eng 177th Hum+0?33On Map
Eng 100th Dwa-20*?33On Map
Eng 102nd Dwa-20*?35On Map
Mrk Nym Rng+10*?33Fleeing in north
61st Elv Art+10?35Fled the battle
75th Elv Art+10?35On Map
Dwa Vol Art+0?33On Map


Also my plan, shooting the 1st hussars and with some extra contingencies for the cavalry

[X] Plan Chaos on the Road
-[X] 251st Hob: Move SW, SW, W
-[X] 10th Hum Art: Shoot 1nd Human Hussars
-[X] 200th Hob: Charge SE, E, SE (Move in when possible, priority over 42nd)
-[X] 72nd Hum: Charge 2nd Human Hussars
-[X] 148th Hum: E, NE, E
-[X] 42nd Elv: Charge SE, E (Move in when possible
-[X] 45th Elv: ROUTING
-[X] 16th Half: ROUTING
-[X] 19th Half: RAPID NE, Shoot 177th
-[X] 28th Half: Move NE, E, NE
-[X] 55th Elv. Hsr: Charge 75th Artillery or blocking unit if blocked, move into the hill south of the road after if possible
-[X] 108th: Charge 75th Artillery or blocking unit if blocked, move into the hill south of the road after if possible
-[X] 13th Hob Lanc: Charge E, E, Charge closest enemy hussars if possible, charge 102nd otherwise, move into direction of 75th artillery afterwards
-[X] 84th Elv Art: Shoot 1nd Human Hussars
-[X] 31st Elv Art: Shoot 1nd Human Hussars
-[X] 5th Hob. H. Art.: Shoot 1nd Human Hussars
-[X] HQ: Supply 251st once it is in range
 
[X] Plan Chaos on the Road
I tried to visualize the plan, let me know if there are any mistakes.


View: https://imgur.com/Egk4B9c

I like the plan as a whole, but I am a bit worried that the 108th may be obstructed by the 55th, if the cavalry charge of the 55th is blocked by an enemy unit.

@Photomajig , would a conditional order like this be allowed? Basically, I'd like to let their CO decide who to charge if our primary plan does not work.
[X] 108th: Charge 75th Artillery or blocking enemy unit if blocked. Move into the hill south of the road after if possible. If blocked by friendly unit, charge an enemy unit in range if possible (CO chooses the target).
 
Finally got around to fix my visualization of @NSchwerte 's plan.

View: https://imgur.com/a/OTByTOt

Also, I think it is time to start the vote. Apart from the risk of the cavalry obstructing each other, I am fine with this plan. And I don't think we can fix the cavalry problem unless the QM allows us to give more complex conditional orders, which does run the risk of making the battle mechanics excessively complicated and convoluted.

[X] Plan Chaos on the Road
 
I checked where units should be. @Photomajig is the 84th Elv in the east the 86th Elv?

Oops, yes, that's a typo.

@Photomajig , would a conditional order like this be allowed? Basically, I'd like to let their CO decide who to charge if our primary plan does not work.
[X] 108th: Charge 75th Artillery or blocking enemy unit if blocked. Move into the hill south of the road after if possible. If blocked by friendly unit, charge an enemy unit in range if possible (CO chooses the target).

I suppose that would be fine, yeah.
 
Ok then, here is a version of @NSchwerte 's plan, with the difference being that our cavalry can act on its own initiative if blocked by a friendly unit.

[X] Plan Chaos on the Road redux
-[X] 251st Hob: Move SW, SW, W
-[X] 10th Hum Art: Shoot 1nd Human Hussars
-[X] 200th Hob: Charge SE, E, SE (Move in when possible, priority over 42nd)
-[X] 72nd Hum: Charge 2nd Human Hussars
-[X] 148th Hum: E, NE, E
-[X] 42nd Elv: Charge SE, E (Move in when possible
-[X] 45th Elv: ROUTING
-[X] 16th Half: ROUTING
-[X] 19th Half: RAPID NE, Shoot 177th
-[X] 28th Half: Move NE, E, NE
-[X] 55th Elv. Hsr: Charge 75th Artillery or blocking unit if blocked, move into the hill south of the road after if possible
-[X] 108th: Charge 75th Artillery or blocking enemy unit if blocked. Move into the hill south of the road after if possible. If blocked by friendly unit, charge an enemy unit in range if possible (CO chooses the target).
-[X] 13th Hob Lanc: Charge E, E, Charge closest enemy hussars if possible, charge 102nd otherwise, move into direction of 75th artillery afterwards
-[X] 84th Elv Art: Shoot 1nd Human Hussars
-[X] 31st Elv Art: Shoot 1nd Human Hussars
-[X] 5th Hob. H. Art.: Shoot 1nd Human Hussars
-[X] HQ: Supply 251st once it is in range
 
Back
Top