Architects of the Great Plan - Warhammer Fantasy Old One Quest

Should point out that the Turtles ended up being a failure due to people forgetting to give them freaking scales/skin. Also should point out that we have been relaxed with our earlier creations. Just tha feels like we should actually put more thought into our creations, their roles and how they are likely to work well together.

Yeah, but to be fair, that was a collective brainfart, it wasn't intentional from what I gather. It was literally just the plan maker forgetting to put one of the reptile inherent traits into the plan, and everyone else not noticing.That example of yours is a bit weak because of that.
 
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@gamer50018 What do you think off this:

[]Plan Straightforward Upgrade Package (Mantis)
-[ ][BAS] Mantises
-[ ][TRA] Chitinous Shell
-[ ][TRA] Capable of Magic
-[ ][TRA] Dexterous
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ]Name: Mantis Alpha
-[ ]Description: A (relatively) straightforward genetic enhancement package for the Mantises, to bring them closer in line with the Luminaries. To maintain backwards compatibility with the current generation of Manti, the enhancements are delivered in stages, each stage breeding true with the previous, one every few generations to ensure full dissemination.
-[ ]Location:Starting in the Everwood, with the expectation that the upgrade package will spread itself planet-wide

[]Plan Toxic Upgrade Package (Mantis)
-[ ][BAS] Mantises
-[ ][TRA] Chitinous Shell
-[ ][TRA] Capable of Magic
-[ ][TRA] Dexterous
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ][TRA] Corrosive Spray
-[ ]Name: Mantis Bravo
-[ ]Description: A (relatively) straightforward genetic enhancement package for the Mantises, to bring them closer in line with the Luminaries. To maintain backwards compatibility with the current generation of Manti, the enhancements are delivered in stages, each stage breeding true with the previous, one every few generations to ensure full dissemination. This package also includes a much more potent toxic spray from the abdominal glands, increasing the Mantis's lethality still further.
-[ ]Location: Everwood, with the expectation that the upgrade package will spread itself planet-wide
 
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By the way, one way we could aid the Mantis is by imbuing them with Hysh like the Luminaries, and giving them longer lives. The whole argument for them being second class citizens rests on those 2 factors after all. Thoughts?
 
@gamer50018 What do you think off this:

[]Plan Straightforward Upgrade Package (Mantis)
-[ ][BAS] Mantises
-[ ][TRA] Chitinous Shell
-[ ][TRA] Capable of Magic
-[ ][TRA] Dexterous
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ]Name: Mantis Alpha
-[ ]Description: A (relatively) straightforward genetic enhancement package for the Mantises, to bring them closer in line with the Luminaries. To maintain backwards compatibility with the current generation of Manti, the enhancements are delivered in stages, each stage breeding true with the previous, one every few generations to ensure full dissemination.
-[ ]Location:Starting in the Everwood, with the expectation that the upgrade package will spread itself planet-wide

[]Plan Toxic Upgrade Package (Mantis)
-[ ][BAS] Mantises
-[ ][TRA] Chitinous Shell
-[ ][TRA] Capable of Magic
-[ ][TRA] Dexterous
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ][TRA] Toxic Spray
-[ ]Name: Mantis Bravo
-[ ]Description: A (relatively) straightforward genetic enhancement package for the Mantises, to bring them closer in line with the Luminaries. To maintain backwards compatibility with the current generation of Manti, the enhancements are delivered in stages, each stage breeding true with the previous, one every few generations to ensure full dissemination. This package also includes a much more potent toxic spray from the abdominal glands, increasing the Mantis's lethality still further.
-[ ]Location: Everwood, with the expectation that the upgrade package will spread itself planet-wide
Those both seem fine, and I've added Corrosive Spray to Further Compensation as well, so we've got some options.
 
If we are upgrading other species. Probably should do something for the Dragon Ogres if only because of their sacrifice for the Varanus. And a way to further Explore Lightning Absorption.

[] Plan Elvish Dragon Ogre
-[] [Bas] Dragon Ogre
-[] [Tra] Large
-[] [Tra] Lightning Absorption
-[] [Tra] Gifted Spellcasters
-[] [Tra] Keen Senses
-[] [Tra] Dextrous

Keen Senses to really make the Dragon Ogres resemble the Elves more.
 
[ ] Plan: The Science Racoons Go Around Again
-[ ] [BAS] Mammalian (Racoon)
-[ ][SER] Non-Servant
-[ ][TRA] Cold Adapted (Inherent)
-[ ][TRA] Short
-[ ][TRA] Hardy
-[ ][TRA] Adaptable
-[ ][TRA] Attuned to a Wind (Chamon)
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ] Name: Procyonite (aka Raccfolk)
-[ ] Location: Skaag Hills, near the future location of what will be Altdorf.
-[ ] Description: Approximately 4'5" to 4'7" feet tall on average. This quick witted people resemble a bipedal Racoon– They move largely on two feet, but retain the ability to move comfortably on four if they require a burst of speed on the ground or stability while climbing. They have long clever fingers with opposable thumbs, a coat that ranges in colors from coal black to a near metallic silver as well as rust reds and iron greys. Larger eyes and forehead, rounded racoon ears and a shorter snout, all-around a face more optimized for expressiveness and speech while maintaining the Procyon form factor. (and of course, a very fluffy tail.)

I've covered my reasons for wanting these guys pretty clearly, anything I can do to make this more attractive to others?

Now for some Homonids!

[ ] Plan: I Like Your Funny Eyes, Magic Man
-[ ][BAS] Homonid
-[ ][SER] Non-Servant
-[ ][TRA] Prolific
-[ ][TRA] Universal Spellcasters
-[ ][TRA] Adaptable
-[ ][TRA] Natural Witchsight
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ] Name: Thauman (like Thaumaturgy)
-[ ] Location: Close to a River that feeds into the future location of what would be The Gulf of Miragliano
-[ ] Description: This delightful hominid variant, that funny little highly social tool-using animal. Can be anywhere between 5 and a half to 6 feet tall on average, largely covered in thin, nearly invisible vallus hairs, with thick terminal hair atop the head. Often this hair is in in darker shades, with the occasional blonde or red head. they tend to Mediterranean skin tones when they get healthy sunlight. They live if given proper care and nutrition, a little over a century. The Modifications to enhance their survivability, senses and grant them access to Magic has altered their iris, leaving it with mild bio-arcanic luminescence, making the edges of the iris glow in the various colors of magic, with intensity depending on Thaumatic Background Levels (Lots of Magic being around makes the eyes glow a little).

Okay, so these guys are humans but slightly better at some stuff. In Universe, I'm imagining an Old One going "What if something fucky happens with magic? We'd need a wide spread early warning system on The Ground"

[ ] Plan: You Gotta Have Sharkgirl-Elves.
-[ ][BAS] Homonid
-[ ][SER] Non-Servant
-[ ][TRA] Semi-Aquatic
-[ ][TRA] Long Life
-[ ][TRA] Hardy
-[ ][TRA] Muscular
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ][TRA] Magic Resistance
-[ ] Name: Waterfolk/Aquarian
-[ ] Location: Close to a River that feeds into a inland sea
-[ ] Description: Tall Hominids adapted to the water. They have pointed, almost fin like ears with sea-weed to green-blue hair, Blue-Grey skin tones. Lines of shiny scales in a wide range of shades accentuate powerful arms, back and legs, and the features of the face. Slightly larger eyes than Standard Humans, to absorb more light underwater. Iris colors are often greys, grey-greens or even flint-like black, the nictitating membrane restored, flicks to cover them. They have webbed fingers and toes and a specialized secondary set of "diving lungs" with pointy shark like front teeth for cutting and self-defense and hominid standard for the rest. All of this combines into soldiers intended for rapid marine-to-land deployment, bodies hardy enough to survive, and lives long enough to heal from what would normally be permanently crippling for other Species

@Fission Battery

Pitching a trait!

If Regeneration doesn't get approved, will replace it with Magic Resistance or Dexterous depending on folks feedback.

EDIT: Removing Regen
 
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By the way, one way we could aid the Mantis is by imbuing them with Hsyh like the Luminaries, and giving them longer lives. The whole argument for them being second class citizens rests on those 2 factors after all. Thoughts?
Re:Hysh, I do think that making them Capable of Magic will cover for that adequately--and it would give them access to other winds the Luminaries can't, which is important if we want them to not just be more Luminaries.

Longer Lives...I'm torn. The appeal of the Mantis to me is that they live fast and die hard, and Longer Lives detracts from that.

Although...here's a thought:
-[][TRA] Inheritable Memory: Some amount of long term memory is backed up in the specie's gametes, and is inherited by the newborn. Both the father's and the mother's memories can be inherited, albeit fuzzily. Only a few highlights are preserved with any clarity.

@Fission Battery, is this good?
 
Probably give the Mantis Universal Spellcasters rather than Capable of Magic to make them more equal to the eyes of the Moths.

Given the Moth influence most will go to Hysh but they will be able to explore the other magics in time.
 
Probably give the Mantis Universal Spellcasters rather than Capable of Magic to make them more equal to the eyes of the Moths.

Given the Moth influence most will go to Hysh but they will be able to explore the other magics in time.
Could, maybe, but as an upgrade package to an existing species I'm inclined to move incrementally. Perhaps as a second upgrade package in the future?
 
can someone make a plan to improve the dragons that grew up with the axolotls?
I don't think improving on Dragons is really a thing.

Edit: Yeah I don't think taking the Mantids from "Can't use any magic at all" to "Literally every single one of you is a spellcaster have fun" is a good idea, there.
 
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Also just remembered. To work on a species the Old Ones takes a sizeable population of them to experiment on first.

So if we work on the Mantis the Old Ones will come down to take them.

So I wonder what it will seem like to the Moths who see their creators come down and take the Mantis to begin the uplift.

Could, maybe, but as an upgrade package to an existing species I'm inclined to move incrementally. Perhaps as a second upgrade package in the future?


The Old Ones operate on the scale of centuries and millenia. It will be slow.
 
By the way, one way we could aid the Mantis is by imbuing them with Hysh like the Luminaries, and giving them longer lives. The whole argument for them being second class citizens rests on those 2 factors after all. Thoughts?
I think this will just make regular mantises even more despised and oppressed. Upgrading races generally sounds like a bad (and boring) idea.
 
[]Plan Full Mantis Uplift
-[ ][BAS] Mantises
-[ ][Ser] Non-Servant
-[ ][TRA] Dextrous
-[ ][TRA] Universal Spellcasters
-[ ][TRA] Long Lived
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ][TRA] Hardy

Okay reasoning for this is that the Moths judge their authority via seniority. As they are Gifted Spellcasters + Long Lived getting seniority is bad.

We don't want to make the Mantis Gifted Spellcasters so making them Universal Spellcasters is good as, since they are so enmeshed with Moth Society, this would hopefully round them out with some Mantis going Hysh, probably most, so they can be seen as equals. Others may eventually use other magics to round out the species group.

Long Lived + Hardy so they can reach the same life span as the Moths. Since Elves and Dwarves have the same Life span and their was Long Lived + Gifted Spellcasters and Long Lived + Hardy respectivley.

Of course I am amenable to changing this though getting rid of Long Lived or Hardy will mean that on average the Moths will retain leadership.
 
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[] Plan: Go Seize It
-[][SER] Extreme Modification
-[][BAS] Fimir
-[][TRA]Large
-[][TRA]Universal Spellcasters
-[][TRA]Adaptable
-[][TRA]Scales
-[][TRA]Hardy
-[]Name: Fimm
-[]Location: Marienburg
-[]Description: Similar to the original fimir that they are descendants of, with few external features distinguish between the two beyond what has been engineered into them. They are a deeply curious and pious people, who see the Old Ones' touches in all things, and will frequently go out to search for sights and resources to explore.

Elevator Pitch: This plan is centered around making a species as close to apocalypse proof as possible. Large and Universal Spellcasters give the Fimm two broadly useful tools for problem solving while Scales and Hardy makes them hard to kill by violence, famine, or poison. Adaptable lets them spread far. Parthenogenesis was planned, but is getting dropped due to not being part of the servant package.
 
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Before going to sleep, I remembered something.

You guys remember the trees? Remember how some are quite murderous? Remember how in the OTL (after Chaos traumatised all plant life and the world-roots went to heck) some tree-men and branch-wraiths and nature spirits just decided they'd destroy all things of flesh that enter their forests? Because I do.
So let's fix that! :smile: Please tell me if this doesn't work because planimal hybrids are impossible @Fission Battery, I looked for info on that with the search function and couldn't find anything, sorry if I missed it.

[ ] Little Green People
-[ ] Base Species: Hominin/Plant Hybrid
-[ ] Animal Empathy
-[ ] Amicable
-[ ] Universal Spellcasters
-[ ] Adaptable
-[ ] Diminutive
-[ ] Name: Sylvan(singular)/Sylvani(plural) (Might change later, please do suggest names!)
-[ ] Location: Lustria, where the green is plentiful and biodiversity is through the roof.
-[ ] Description: Picture a human, but slightly pointy ears, slightly bigger eyes, leaves, shrubbery and/or moss for hair (Desert dwellers have pointy hair like a cactus) and five fingers, but two thumbs, so a thumb on each end of the hand, but much more mobile than you'd expect too. Species varies a lot depending on where they adapt to live, skin is usually green but some in arid areas might become a lighter lime color. This happens because, generally, the darker their environment the more chlorophyll goes to their skin to catch more light, thus darker pigmentation. Some can grow bark, maybe if they live in more arid places or colder ones. They can grow flower petals in their hair if they're consistently happy/content/fulfilled.

Possible Backstory is that some Old Ones realised that, in time, either their creations, or the natives might end up having some negative effect on the ecosystems of the planet, which would impede their creations functioning at full productivity.

It's not like you can modify everyone to live in a hyper-polluted landscape, right? I mean, they do, but let's say they thought it was too much work to do so.

So they looked at the Axolotls and how well their food forests were going, and decided to create a species that would do that, become caretakers of the forests of the world and of the ecosystem in general.

They have Animal Empathy and Amicable because I fear just giving the latter without the former might only make them friendly to plant life. Similarly I fear giving the former without the latter would make them by default hostile to anyone who likes to build their homes out of wood.

Universal Spellcasters and Adaptable, because the second lets them mesh into the ecosystems they find easily, and the first they can use to build something like the world-roots, and well, be more flexible with meshes well with adaptable I think

Now I hear you saying "(1)Why don't you make them attuned to ghyran?" or "(2)Why don't you give them Gifted Spellcaster instead?"

To the first(1), the answer is flexibility, to see the world through the lens of only one wind can be, to my mind, extremely limiting. The world is a series of interconnected systems of baffling complexity, to only see one of the threads making up the tapestry of existence is like looking at a painting and only seeing one of the colors that make it up.

It gives a different perspective, yes, and that isn't always a bad thing, but that perspective is not something I think should be given to a people made to take care of the ecosystem, which is made of thousands of systems all connected. From the stars through which migrating birds can navigate in their travels, to the death and decay that nourishes fungi and fire that cleans the forest of old foliage to make way for new growth. All are important, all must be perceived, to limit them only to one is to risk the whole.

Regarding Universal Spellcasting(2), it is mainly to not make them think they are superior to others, and to give them even more versatility by letting everyone access the winds. In the description for Gifted Spellcasters it said that the majority of the population has awesome magic powers they can innately use.

This is a bad thing, because:

a) It means there's a number of people incapable of magic, the thing that makes the species so special, which might cause them to be ostracised from society at worse. Some would say that's a worthy price, I point at the fact people like that are usually the kind of people who fall to Chaos, thus giving the species a vector for infection, also I am tired of these kinds of prices and of potential pointless internal divisions in a species because of petty matters like that.

b) The more pragmatic point is that species that have most of their members capable of magic are known for having it get to their heads, we know how that went for the elves. Universal Spellcasters instead gives everyone equal chances of developing magical power, magic they have to work for, rather than having it be given to them with the instincts to use it. Which means we don't get them having a biased perspective of the other races for having to work for what a gifted spellcaster race has given for free, after all a member of a race of universal spellcasters can relate to that, they worked for their power too.

c) The last reason is that the effect of a race of universal spellcasters in the warp can and probably will be significant, this can be very good, like, suddenly get the elven gods minus all the family drama in a best-case scenario, or something. It might be a pipe dream but the possibility is there, and either way I think it could be worth it.

Oh and Diminutive makes them like 60 centimeters(2 feet) tall at the most. Because it reduces caloric needs and also yes, these are gnomes/wingless fairies more or less.


Wow, this post became big. Any way now I sleep.
 
your still not getting the point I am trying to bring across , think in 40k terms if your ship enters the warp near the eye of terror with no Galler field the crew will end up being driven insane/mutated/corrupted due to large scale exposure to warp/chaos energies , in warhammer fantasy when the warp gate of the Old Ones collapsed the entire planet was practically submerged in Dhar/chaos/warp energy , the only people that could protect themselves from it were either the ones with advanced enough magic to ward it off like the High elves and Lizardmen , the ones who had bunkered down deep enough to avoid the worst of it the dwarfs or were explicitly designed to be immune and resistant to it like ogres and halflings
That does not explain the Humans though. They had neither magic resistance or advanced magic, so how did they survive?
 
Also just remembered. To work on a species the Old Ones takes a sizeable population of them to experiment on first.

So if we work on the Mantis the Old Ones will come down to take them.

So I wonder what it will seem like to the Moths who see their creators come down and take the Mantis to begin the uplift.
Probably we're going to be take a few volunteers at a time for several millennia--we'd be doing lots of small stages anyway, so we'd need a constant trickle of samples from the population to develop each stage.
The Old Ones operate on the scale of centuries and millenia. It will be slow.
Thousands of years is blisteringly fast to evolve an entirely new capability in an existing species--and that's basically what we'd be doing, guided evolution in the field. If we were doing it as a clean sheet design I'd be all for it.
[]Plan Full Mantis Uplift
-[ ][BAS] Mantises
-[ ][TRA] Dextrous
-[ ][TRA] Universal Spellcasters
-[ ][TRA] Long Lived
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ][TRA] Hardy
That's more or less what I'd be aiming for as an end point for the project. But, again, gradually.

Elevator Pitch: If moths are hyperspecialists, these are generalists who are really hard to remove from anywhere they set up. Scales and Hardy make them hard to kill through poison or violence, Large and US gives them lots of options for problem solving, and Adaptable means that they can go anywhere. Extreme modifications also gives access to parthenogenesis, so Fimm are basically never incapable of recovering from a loss given time. This plan is basically trying to make a species as apocalypse proof as possible.
Extreme Modifications doesn't give free Parthenogenetic:
[ ][SER] Extreme Modifications

They will age like any other creature, procreate through sexual reproduction with spawning pools supplementing their numbers, and loyalty impressed upon them during their upbringing. Slight tweaks to their psyche will make them view the Old Ones as family so that they implicitly trust them, but familial bonds may break under pressure.
The good news is you'll be able to add it on, as none of the servant statuses disallows Parthenogenetic. The bad news is that you'll have to swap a trait out for it.
 
Thousands of years is blisteringly fast to evolve an entirely new capability in an existing species--and that's basically what we'd be doing, guided evolution in the field. If we were doing it as a clean sheet design I'd be all for it.


For evolution yes, but not for society to adapt. It will be slow enough to allow for a transition of Mantis society to fully absorb the change in capabilities and generally spread the bloodline to subsume the majority.

Plus you have to think opportunity cost. If we do things piecemeal I doubt their will be a will to revisit them again for another upgrade.
 
That does not explain the Humans though. They had neither magic resistance or advanced magic, so how did they survive?
not all the humans were left to fend for themselves as cavemen, the humans of Albion were taught wind magic by the Old Ones , the early proto Nahakara and proto Ind were likely experiments to see how far humans can go with divine magic ,these magical advanced human civs had the tools and advanced magic to protect themselves , the ones who were left as cave men were likely there for the Old Ones to see how the humans would develop independently and really stress test their adaptability which was their big selling point
 
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not all the humans were left to fend for themselves as cavemen, the humans of Albion were taught wind magic by the Old Ones , the early proto Nahakara and proto Ind were likely experiments to see how far humans can go with divine magic ,these magical advanced human civs had the tools and advanced magic to protect themselves , the ones who were left as cave men were likely there for the Old Ones to see how the humans would develop independently and really stress test their adaptability which was their big selling point
Evidence, please. Because I'm pretty damn sure you're making this up at this point.
 
[]Plan Straightforward Upgrade Package (Mantis)
-[ ][BAS] Mantises
-[ ][TRA] Chitinous Shell
-[ ][TRA] Capable of Magic
-[ ][TRA] Dexterous
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[ ]Name: Mantis Alpha
-[ ]Description: A (relatively) straightforward genetic enhancement package for the Mantises, to bring them closer in line with the Luminaries. To maintain backwards compatibility with the current generation of Manti, the enhancements are delivered in stages, each stage breeding true with the previous, one every few generations to ensure full dissemination.
-[ ]Location:Starting in the Everwood, with the expectation that the upgrade package will spread itself planet-wide

[]Plan Memory Preservation Upgrade Package (Mantis)
-[ ][BAS] Mantises
-[ ][TRA] Universal Spellcasters
-[ ][TRA] Dexterous
-[ ][TRA] Keen Senses
-[][TRA] Inheritable Memory: Some amount of long term memory is backed up in the specie's gametes, and is inherited by the newborn. Either or both of the father's and the mother's memories can be inherited, albeit fuzzily. Only a few highlights are preserved with any clarity.
-[ ]Name: Mantis
-[ ]Description: A more esoteric genetic enhancement package for the Mantises, focused on improving their magical capabilities and on experimenting with other capabilities. Experience is accumulated not over one long life, but over multiple lives as the mother passes some of her memories to her eggs, allowing matrilines to specialize into different Winds of magic or other trades.
-[ ]Location: The Everwood

More drafts. I'm sticking to four traits out of worry for genetic compatibility, particularly with MPUP as that's introducing both a new trait and a significant boost in magical capability.
 
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