I would have thought it obvious: she's the Heiress to Creation. She alone in Earth Bet is heiress to the power to stand athwart and astride Fate wielding Name and Role and she alone is heiress to the lore of Creation
An Impractical Guide to Ascension (Worm / Practical Guide to Evil)
- Thread starter Alivaril
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- United States
Source on this? I don't think this is actually confirmed. It's suggested and implied, but only by someone who has reason to lie.
feauxen
I know everything and nothing. I'm very confused.
- Location
- Yes.
- Pronouns
- Human/Person/Thing
To be clear, when I say, "turning your life around," I mean that she'd be redeemed according to the morality of us human audience members, not that she'd use the power of tropes to replace :MOTHER:. The lesser evil becoming greater almost by accident is a familiar story, to be sure, but I'd prefer to avoid that one. (So if you'd kindly stop giving the immensely powerful and painfully amoral conflict engine ideas that'd be great, thanks.
)
Echo
Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before
- Location
- "echolocation" dur hur hur
It's not even accurate, really, in the usual sense of "progressively raising the stakes/danger level of a conflict." Skitter's issue was usually more that she always tries to skip to the logical conclusion. Time for negotiation? Nah, Taylor already came up with the most generous-to-you offer she'd be willing to accept and is presenting it as an ultimatum, and if you don't accept that obviously you're the unreasonable one. A fight breaking out? No worries, Taylor has figured out how much force (she thinks) she'll need to win decisively and is going to bust that out immediately without faffing about with stuff that might not work, but please also ignore her self-esteem issues causing her to overcompensate for her own perceived weakness. A situation that doesn't seem to have a solution? Fortunately, Taylor is already prepared to grit her teeth and endure it and doesn't need her time wasted with platitudes or solutions she's already decided are unworkable.
Escalation is a concept for people capable of taking action at many levels between zero and maximum. Taylor has exactly two levels of action: "off" and "holy fuck what are you doing". It just looks like rapid escalation to people who can't see inside Taylor's head and thus mistakenly expect her to act like a sane person.
Pretty sure that's even on the Evil Overlord List: If you have a monster chained up or otherwise controlled, treat it kindly so that when it inevitably gets loose it doesn't immediately turn on you.
Plus, Taylor's already got the item about dressing in bright and cheery colors handled, so all in all she's making good progress on the whole Evil Overlord thing.
Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
It's also part of the 200 Heroic Axioms in PGTE.
Crazael
Rehydrated Demon King
- Location
- Lost to the vagaries of time.
I wonder how much overlap is there... and if the Evil Overlord List was part of PGTE's inspiration.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
I think the author mentioned it as inspiration somewhere in a WoG, but I'm not sure. In any case, there's many, many similarities between the Black Knight's policies and the EOL.
Edifier
Trusted within thoughts.
- Location
- Court of Moon Wizards
Sooo, she's wearing the goth outfit while doing the ritual?
In the modern culture that's pretty much dressed as an occultist, no?
Also Taylor's like in withrawl from lack of RISE spam.
In the beginning of the story there was a lecture on sacrifice for power, that it can be more abstract things, back when Taylor was still playing with knives.
In the modern culture that's pretty much dressed as an occultist, no?The real trap is that she'll never be capable of putting her back in the bottle, even if in theory she could, cause she'll get hoelessly addicted to her motherly affection.
It is honest, but it's also curated. She's both manipulating Taylor and sharing her affection for her. For evil people like her very little is mutually exclusive.
Also Taylor's like in withrawl from lack of RISE spam.
O right, actually sacrificing your love for your daughter is something a villain can do to power themselves up.... isn't it? And vice versa.
In the beginning of the story there was a lecture on sacrifice for power, that it can be more abstract things, back when Taylor was still playing with knives.
Last edited:
- Location
- Unknown
It's been brought up in Worm/APGTE crossovers before (yes they exist) that QA technically qualifies both as The Arch-Villains Beautiful(?) Daughter who was sent out into the world only after she was Mutilated so that she could never betray her progenitor, and the Vicious Beast locked in a Cage that if treated with kindness before it inevitably Breaks Loose will (also inevitably) side with the one who showed it such unfamiliar affection.
We already know one of it's Aspects "Obscure" which is something all Shards do to hide the strings behind the curtains, though it's worth noting this is something accomplished primarily by a specific Shard that has been turned into an Aspect by way of association with Shards in general, and seeing as Taylor is probably getting her second Aspect at the end of this Vision Quest this seems like a perfect time for the Shard to have whatever its version of a Vision would be to gain the Aspect "Empower", again somethings Shards do stretched a bit outside its original function so that it can alter and/or enhance the ritual to create The Shade giving it another point of entry into the world and a means of growing outside its nature, although QA would probably initially do this to further experiment with the new energy source it found.
In fact now that I'm thinking about it QA exists in a liminal space between the Name Heiress and Shade, like the Heiress its nature is Transitional both in terms of the Cycle and the fact it can only truly become something else by supplanting the one that created it or forging a new path, like the Shade it is a living representation of a foreign way of life (though not a culture) that seeks to leave it's mark on the world while only being able to affect it in indirect ways simultaneously chained to both a greater power that is its source and a lesser power that is its only means of changing the world.
I know what you're thinking I've already outlined why I think its second Aspect will be Empower so obviously the third one will be Administrate (provided it's Queen Administrator), but that's the thing I don't think that will be the case. The nature of individual Shards is to learn(collect data) and the first Shard to have a Name will obviously grow beyond its nature rather than just doing the same thing it has always done but more so. There are countless stories about Humanities infectious nature and while technically there's an unimaginably vast weight of history of Every Single Cycle ending the same way it's important to note that this Cycle is already broken. There is nowhere for the Shards story to go but off script so whatever Designation the Shard had before Narrativium started being a thing here is not going to be the Name it has by the End of its Story, hell it probably isn't even the Name it has now
We already know one of it's Aspects "Obscure" which is something all Shards do to hide the strings behind the curtains, though it's worth noting this is something accomplished primarily by a specific Shard that has been turned into an Aspect by way of association with Shards in general, and seeing as Taylor is probably getting her second Aspect at the end of this Vision Quest this seems like a perfect time for the Shard to have whatever its version of a Vision would be to gain the Aspect "Empower", again somethings Shards do stretched a bit outside its original function so that it can alter and/or enhance the ritual to create The Shade giving it another point of entry into the world and a means of growing outside its nature, although QA would probably initially do this to further experiment with the new energy source it found.
In fact now that I'm thinking about it QA exists in a liminal space between the Name Heiress and Shade, like the Heiress its nature is Transitional both in terms of the Cycle and the fact it can only truly become something else by supplanting the one that created it or forging a new path, like the Shade it is a living representation of a foreign way of life (though not a culture) that seeks to leave it's mark on the world while only being able to affect it in indirect ways simultaneously chained to both a greater power that is its source and a lesser power that is its only means of changing the world.
I know what you're thinking I've already outlined why I think its second Aspect will be Empower so obviously the third one will be Administrate (provided it's Queen Administrator), but that's the thing I don't think that will be the case. The nature of individual Shards is to learn(collect data) and the first Shard to have a Name will obviously grow beyond its nature rather than just doing the same thing it has always done but more so. There are countless stories about Humanities infectious nature and while technically there's an unimaginably vast weight of history of Every Single Cycle ending the same way it's important to note that this Cycle is already broken. There is nowhere for the Shards story to go but off script so whatever Designation the Shard had before Narrativium started being a thing here is not going to be the Name it has by the End of its Story, hell it probably isn't even the Name it has now
Just out of curiosity, doesn't QA also count as the youngest daughter as well? Since QA was either made or modified to it's present state because of Thinker not doing their job so Warrior had to create shards to cover the areas Thinker normally did.
I'm not 100% sure on that, I kind of binged through Worm a few months ago and while most of it has stuck some of the entity sections kind of blurred together for me a bit at the time.
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
The warrior did take some of the thinker's jobs since she was busy, but he didn't create QA for this, she already existed as part of the greater entity.
Been an enjoyable read thus far, though if I'm being honest I am glad to see that we're actually making some progress. I wholly understand that sometimes there can't be any rushing, and the interactions between Taylor and the Shade are needed to lay the foundation between the two, but man, I would be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to seeing some enchanting, some spellcasting, and other things. lol
Great read, watched!
Great read, watched!
Chapter XV: Internal Debate
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Special thanks to @saganatsu, @DB_Explorer, @fictionfan, @Adephagia, @DaGeek247, @Wordsmith, @Taut_Templar, Jamie Wahls, @Elfalpha, @BunnyLord, @Drcatspaw, @Conspiracy, @tinkerware, @Lonelywolf999, D'awwctor, and my 16 other patrons not mentioned here. An extremely enthusiastic "Thank you" to @Torgamous for her patronage as well. Also, if you're not on here, you fit the tier, and you want to be added, please tell me. >.>
Beta-read by @curiosity.
Beta-read by @curiosity.
AN: I hope I don't regret pointing people toward it, but there's a version of AIGTA friendly to light themes available on Archive Of Our Own.
"Calernia will never know true peace so long as the Dead King still draws breath—oh, stop sniggering, you know what I meant!"
– The Ashen Pyromancer
My doppelgänger offered me a hand up that I took with only the slightest moment of hesitation. She pulled me up without comment and I took the opportunity to look around. It seemed as though we were in an empty Winslow classroom, complete with unoccupied seats, scuff marks from chairs, and patches of brown where paint had peeled away. The entirety of Winslow, including the twilight-lit city outside, was still and eerily silent of everything save a faint humming that I couldn't quite place. I didn't like it, though.
"So, how does this work?" I asked to break the silence. "Do we need to fight, chess game for her soul, debate philosophies, or…?"
"Standard dream quest with ghosts of past and future," the other me explained, "except it's closer to us disagreeing on how dumb of an idea it is to resurrect Roma. I can say that Roma was wrong about how this works, too. You can embrace self-deception all the way to the grave, and both me and the extra are capable of lying to you or being wrong. And since all three of us—you, me, and the extra—possess differing opinions, one of us has to be wrong to some extent."
My clone pulled out a desk chair and sat back heavily, waving for me to take a seat across from her. It turned out that I'd finally learned something when it came to Roma's continued nagging regarding proper posture—I might not be all that consistent when it came to sitting up straight, but it was really easy to tell when someone else was doing it. I wrinkled my nose. No wonder she was on my case all the time; I was pretty sure the other me simply didn't want to have this conversation but believe it to be necessary, but her slump instead made it look like she didn't give a fuck.
I reflexively checked the chair behind me—no gum, thankfully—before sitting down. Winslow's chairs weren't any more comfortable in the dream than they were in reality; if anything, they were less comfortable.
"Why are we here instead of in the teacher's lounge?" I asked aloud. "I bet their chairs are comfier, and it sounds like the city is empty except for us."
My clone shook her head.
"Yeah, no. Trust me, you don't want to risk the hallway unless you're so sick of my voice that you'd rather take your chances with the local wildlife."
Local wildlife, I mouthed silently.
"A dream version of the Trio," she elaborated.
I grimaced. Lesser evil of classroom chairs it was, then.
"So. Let's take stock," my clone continued. "Roma took up residence in your head a few weeks ago and immediately started trying to push you toward criminal acts. She says she wasn't strong enough to present herself as a real person, but we only have her as a source for that—and let's not forget that she also mentioned 'doubting your own sanity' as a reason she didn't try to reveal herself for a while after a first attempt. The existence of that first alleged attempt seems to contradict the 'not strong enough' claim, right? After revealing herself, she only shared some knowledge for free–"
"Some background knowledge," I interrupted. "She hasn't demanded payment for any of the magical tutoring even though that's arguably more valuable."
My clone flipped me off, and I scowled. Real charming, dream.
"Finally, your first night out went FUBAR–"
"After I persistently refused to listen to her or acknowledge that story stuff might actually affect my powers."
"–and she revealed herself when you were incredibly upset and most vulnerable. Ever since then, she's been criticizing Dad whenever the opportunity provides itself and acting like she would do better. She even sabotaged your relationship with the Protectorate even if she came up with vaguely plausible justifications after the fact. And you've been letting her. She has you wrapped around her finger at this point, which is especially impressive since she doesn't have fingers yet. And you want to just up and give them to her so that she can wrap them around someone's throat behind your back."
I glared at my clone. I suppose that answered the question of that whole opposing opinions thing she'd mentioned. Presumably, there would be me, miss doomsayer here, and a total Roma apologist.
"That's not it," my clone said with a glare, "but sure, jump to conclusions because I'm telling you things you don't want to hear."
"Fuck off. I've felt that she likes me and you know it."
"Yes, because the magical fantasy empress and actress from another world totally can't make herself feel things when it's convenient for her. She can even hear your thoughts and tailor her behavior accordingly. Don't even get me started on how you reacted to feeling today's doses of alleged 'affection' accompanying recent compliments. Why would anyone compliment us? We're basically upright frogs, and you know it. But all that discomfort goes away as soon as Roma figures out how to dose us with emotional drugs at the same time. You have to realize that's basically Mastering us, right?"
"If her feeling something meant that I would feel it," I shot back, ignoring the pronoun quirks, "then she wouldn't need to fight with me over murder and the like. That would be Mastering. This is just me enjoying the feeling of someone actually liking me for once."
"Allegedly liking," my clone stressed. "For all we know, those feelings are manufactured either magically or through method acting."
I huffed and shook my head. This wasn't going anywhere.
"Is there an actual point to this conversation? You're so far into the realm of paranoia that it's pretty much impossible to take you seriously. I don't get the point of a dream quest if I'm just going to end up ignoring both you and whatever other extreme is represented by the 'extra.'"
The other me paused and seemingly gave that some thought. I had to wonder if she was actually thinking or not—did my powers force me to develop what was effectively a split personality, or was she only imitating sapience and sentience?
"It's your choice to ignore me or not," she said slowly. "Choices seem to be pretty important to our powers, really. Remember that weird weight back at the shoe and clothing stores? So I guess the point is what you take from our arguments. Still, emotional drugs or not, remember how you were thinking of tolerating your outfit–"
She gestured at the Arcadia outfit that I'd worn for the ritual and brought with me into dreams.
"–Not just because it might have helped us in Arcadia, but because Roma liked seeing you in it? Roma, the supervillain who didn't only espouse murder, but also power over others and how much we would enjoy torturing Emma. You've even been playing with the idea of going shopping again simply because you crave her approval that fucking much. We aren't that starved for positive attention–"
My doppelgänger stopped and shook her head.
Okay, ignore that, evidence suggests we totally are. Still, remember how this favors mess started in the first place? She said that we would clearly need to work up to you killing people. This keeps up and Roma will be able to coerce you into more and more uncomfortable behavior until you think robbing a bank would somehow be vaguely acceptable."
I winced. I'd almost forgotten about the clearly needing to work up to murder comment.
"That's not her hiding her intentions, though," I argued. "She's been pretty blunt about wanting me to become a villain. She even helped me foster an 'innocent' look for my costume, which yeah, looks dumb, but nobody is going to think I'm a villain if I dress like that."
The other me drummed her fingers on the desk beside her.
"Yeah, I'm dredging up stuff you don't want to consider and I still don't know what was going on there," my clone admitted. "Maybe to get us to put our guards down?"
"That's a stretch and you know it."
My clone swiped one hand impatiently.
"Well, here we are, so it might have worked. It's absurd how willing you are to strengthen someone who rejoices in the suffering of others just because she's been nice to us so far."
"And helped us escape the Trio," I said pointedly.
Really, that was perhaps the biggest reason I was doing this at all. She'd improved my life; it was only fair that I improve her—er, unlife.
"Not my point—or, well, not my main one since I don't think I'll make progress there. Why do you seem to think that we're an exception to her enjoying power over others? The feelings we've felt, which she might be a good enough actor to control? Her behavior, which she can tailor to match our thoughts? Her actions, when she hasn't previously been in a strong position to hurt us but definitely could if you go through with this? We're going to spend who knows how long, maybe days, as weak and helpless as a babe at the same time that Roma suddenly has the strength to act independently. You can't tell me that isn't a recipe for disaster. Doesn't she seem like the sort to lord her 'superiority' over someone else by tricking them and subsequently betraying them? We are literally an innocent—she kills people like us for power, and you're handing us to her on a silver platter!"
I slowly exhaled and slumped slightly. My clone might sit on the extreme end of paranoia, but I couldn't say that she was wrong about what Roma could do. Roma could easily be using me, and could literally kill me once the ritual was done. She was my sole source regarding whether Names could be sustained without my presence—I might make my surroundings operate under story rules, but Names might be self-sustaining sources. She might not need me after all. Plus, Emma's cronies had shown me just how someone could pretend to be my friend just to torment me or–
I stopped and suddenly felt horrifically guilty at the direction my thoughts had been going. Emma. Oh, fuck that.
"Okay, you've made a what-if argument for 'what if she's acting in bad faith?'" I began aloud, gaining confidence in my words as I spoke them. "Here's mine: What if she's not? By her own admission, I'm an exception to Roma's normal apathy toward other people. She's been nothing but kind and has been going out of her way to distract me from my life and even help me improve it. I don't think she can be blamed for becoming a villain; there isn't any context that would make the stories of her homeland any less horrifying. She's behaving herself for my sake so far. Should I tell her that there's no point in trying? That she's doomed to be a villain forever? If I don't at least give her the chance to do better, then that makes me the horrible person."
I could bring up how the thing that seemingly made her angriest to date was the world's absence of upward mobility. That behavior wasn't a good counterargument against the claims that she was presenting an idealized version of herself, though. Roma's reverence of exceptional individuals deserving to grab power for themselves seemed too consistent to be an act, but sure, it could be one. Same deal with the emotions: even if I doubted that she could imitate how affection felt, I'm willing to bet that she could have bewitched herself to temporarily like me. It could all be an act.
"Maybe you're right. Maybe she is planning to betray me, and I won't live past the weekend. Considering how much thought and effort she's put into teaching and helping me, though, I really don't think she's going to—and I am not going to shoot first. I refuse to be someone else's Emma."
I pushed myself to my feet and looked toward the windows. They were the kind that only opened a bit at the bottom and top to allow ventilation, but this was a dream and the Trio apparently stalked the halls. Better to break a window than to chance an encounter with them.
"We don't know everything her magic can do," my clone warned. "A betrayal doesn't need to be murder; who's to say that she won't bewitch you while you're unable to resist? Hell, it doesn't even need to be as blatant as forcing you to obey commands. Heartbreaker is a good demonstration of what artificially induced emotions could do. Similarly, you not strengthening her now doesn't need to be full stop. Just, you know, make sure that you're safe from her first."
I grabbed a chair, hefted it thoughtfully, and stopped. I was an idiot. Winslow might be a hellhole, but even they obeyed fire codes. I supposed that do not pull this red lever was so thoroughly ingrained in my consciousness that it simply didn't occur to me. I released my grip on the chairs and started walking toward the exterior windows.
"First, I promised her that she would be allowed to feel again, and don't tell me she wouldn't be upset if I got cold feet now. Second, in what world does keeping a bewitched heroine under control not end horribly for the villain? She even agreed with me when I pointed that out earlier tonight. That whole 'power over others' thing? I'm willing to bet that she enjoys knowing more than other people, too, and I doubt I'll learn everything she has to teach any time soon."
I gripped the red release lever on one side of a window, started to pull up, and paused. I frowned and faced to turn my paranoid clone.
"Where is your counterpart, anyway?"
My clone raised her eyebrows.
"Take a wild guess. I'm not saying when you're being this stubborn."
She paused and smirked slightly.
"On second thought, I want to see the look on your face. Here's a tip: her location was helped along by the same mentality responsible for this whole dream."
And so was this starting location, I finished. So, we started in Winslow and the first adversary was practically a representation of paranoia. If I'd behaved like that, then I would still be warily refusing help from Roma–
I blinked, closed my eyes, and sighed. It felt too fitting for me to be wrong.
"She's in Arcadia, isn't she?" I asked with resignation.
I opened my my eyes just in time to catch a sadistic grin flit across my clone's face. She hummed noncommittally immediately afterward, but that grin was a bit of a giveaway.
"And no people means there aren't any busses running," I continued, not at all looking forward to the walk ahead.
"Plus there are some wandering trials between here and there," my clone agreed cheerfully. "Have fun with that."
We flipped each other off in perfect sync. Honestly, I would be tempted to punch her in the face if I didn't think it would make this even more painful than it had to be.
"Oh look, self-harm," she said idly. "Yet another thing Roma basically encouraged."
That's literally only for the power, and you know it.
I made a mental note to apologize to Dad for any times that I might have been a little shit. I'd usually assumed it was other teenagers who behaved like that, but my clone's behavior suggested otherwise.
My journey through the empty midday streets of Brockton Bay was long, dull, chilly, and creepy. Despite my first clone's warnings, however, the so-called 'Trials' were easily avoided. Gunfire, screeches of metal, Fenja and Menja towering above the city streets, Oni Lee carpet-bombing his surroundings with grenades, Lung's roars and pyromania—all of it provided plenty of advance warning for me to give the fights a wide berth and avoid getting caught up in my dream's reenactments of Brockton Bay's gang wars.
Avoiding them was suspiciously easy, and I had to wonder if I would need to go back and fight to escape the dream or if the lack of difficulty was itself an allegory. I felt as though my first clone had aligned more with "paranoid" rather than "good," but the opposite end of that spectrum might still be accepting everything Roma did—including the morally reprehensible "solutions" Roma proposed. It taking literal hours of easy walking to reach Arcadia might be the dream's way of saying that the road to evil would be long, but easy to traverse. Or I could view it as a journey to Arcadia rather than a trip to an evil twin, which took a while but was actually rather easy once I started. Or it could just be that my subconscious considered avoidance of the ongoing gang warfare to be enough of a challenge all on its own, or, or!
There were too many reasons that my powers and "Fate" might choose to behave a certain way, and I had no handy guide telling me which was right or wrong. Roma might be able to help while I was awake, but she was utterly absent in the dream. I kept catching myself trying to talk to her, or waiting for a reply to a stray thought that she would disagree with.
My feet hurt by the time I actually arrived at Arcadia. I more than half expected to need to fight my way inside, but it was as abandoned as the rest of the city. The gates and front doors had been propped open in an obvious invitation. I warily accepted and followed the path, scanning my surroundings for threats as I went. This dream-quest had been far too easy thus far, and if my mindset affected my dream, then it stood to reason that something in here would be horrifically difficult.
"Welcome, hero, to your doom," purred my own voice.
I twitched and slowly turned to stare the source. My doppelgänger lounged atop a grey sofa in a disturbingly lacy blood red dress and the red heels I'd bought but never wore. She held a small kris knife in one hand, and her hair was arranged in a crown braid entwined with ruby-studded black silk thread. The black domino mask over her face did little to hide our features.
Even if she had a knife and I didn't, I still couldn't take her at all seriously.
"You have got to be kidding me," I flatly replied.
"Yep," my clone unexpectedly agreed, and her surroundings shifted and blurred together into a rainbow kaleidoscope. Not even two seconds later, the glamour finished shifting—whether to end or to simply assert something else, I didn't know—and left her in the cardigan and white and blue floral dress that was to be my costume. The mask was gone altogether and the knife revealed to be a bundle of sharpened pencils held in one hand. The crown braid and jewels stayed, but the jeweled string had turned to a silver ribbon with glittering diamonds along its length.
My clone soon pushed herself upright and patted the sofa next to her. Rather than get in stabbing range, I opted to sit in a nearby chair and crossed my arms.
"Was there an actual point to that display?"
She shrugged.
"I felt like it. I'm the clone that trusts Roma and she is an actress, remember? She has a point: there's no good reason to take ourselves so seriously all the time. We're allowed to enjoy ourselves while we save people."
I wrinkled my nose. Heroes were expected to take the job seriously, and any deviations from that could lead to public backlash.
"Until someone gets hurt because we were goofing off. Seriously though, this whole dream is meant to make me decide whether or not to continue the ritual, right? Do we even need to have this discussion if we're both already in favor?"
"Boring or not, it's still necessary," she confirmed. "And as it happens, there is something else I want to advocate for: trusting Roma more. She might be happy to let the 'evil' accusations pass, but that honestly isn't giving her enough credit. She does possess her own moral framework, you know?"
"One that sees most other people as tools and murder as acceptable," I deadpanned.
My clone waved one hand as though to dispel that perfectly valid concern.
"Yeah, but she'll behave herself because we're not okay with acting like that. I meant how Roma believes in rising based on merit, and remember how mad she was about Earth Bet not allowing that? You can't honestly tell me that her rule would be worse than the way things are now."
"I definitely can. She enjoys lording power over other people, remember?"
"And that's worse than other rich people?" my clone asked pointedly. "The US is an oligarchy at this point, and the rest of the world isn't much better. Remember when the mayor broke his promise to Dad about cleaning up the Boat Graveyard, and suffered no electoral consequences for it? Heck–"
I noticed the swear substitution and filed it away for later. I apparently subconsciously assumed that Roma wouldn't want me to curse.
"–it isn't just on a local level. Those in power are so incompetent that the Slaughterhouse Nine, walking examples of the greater evil, have existed since well before we were born. Seriously, how? They didn't always have Bonesaw to help them hold areas hostage via disease, and don't tell me that Eidolon couldn't find a way to deal with that mess. We live in a world with near-instantaneous communication across the planet and somehow they're still alive. If that doesn't scream incompetence and an inability to govern, I don't know what does.
"Half the Capes out there don't even wear armor—yeah, there are those rumors of Lung shrugging off gunfire, but what about practically everyone else in the city? Villains shouldn't be a problem. Instead, they're practically given the same reverence as the rich and powerful or politicians—it says disturbing things that there's so much overlap there—complete with not staying in jail even when they damn well deserve it, and shooting them being treated as bad even when they're actively harming others."
I stared at the scornful duplicate and tried to figure out what she was trying to support. The logical connections of my paranoid clone were easier to follow.
"Yeah, it's messed up," I admitted. "But it's what we have and you're trying to argue… what, that Roma take over? Because nobody would follow her without a sea of blood."
"I'm trying to explain that Roma actually achieving even her most ludicrous goals would still be an improvement," elaborated my clone. "So she wants power. So do a lot of politicians who are already in control, and at least she would improve things. Yeah, Roma might want to rule over the land or push you to do the same. Maybe she should. By the sounds of it, her world has had their Cape-like Named for a lot longer than Earth Bet. Yeah, her home empire was a mess, but surely there will be saner historical examples that she can apply to the current situation?"
I leaned forward to rub at my face with both hands. She was still pointing out all the problems with the status quo without actually proposing any sort of solution.
"I'm getting there. If you think about it, the part where Roma would have trouble simply running for office is itself disgusting. The PRT outright bans powered members, and powered politicians have a really tough time of winning elections. Our powerset? We're right out—for a national level. And that brings me to the actual solution that you've been pushing me to get to: we don't fight her when she tries to solve problems on a smaller scale, 'cuz you can't tell me that the current state of affairs is any different."
"…Okaaay…?" I hazarded. "I mean. I like to think I'd give her more credit and hear her out instead of just instantly opposing her on a knee-jerk reaction?"
"Even if that involves villainy and breaking the law?" my clone asked.
I found myself relaxing despite the swerve that I should really have anticipated. There was something that I could actually oppose.
"Oh, c'mon," she scoffed. "You can't tell me that the law is inherently just, and our laws were instituted by those in power to support themselves. They're enforcing a status quo that simply does not work, and more importantly, that will already oppose us as a knee-jerk reaction. Remember the mall? The PRT aren't going to listen to us now, not without 'solutions' that will completely ruin our secret identity and Dad's safety. The PRT is a bureaucracy, and we can't even go with Roma's solution of appealing to a different branch to fix that problem. We're definitely classified as a Master by now, we are undeniably a Stranger; with those issues hanging over us, you can bet your butt that the PRT would flip out if we tried to appeal to another branch."
I wrinkled my nose. It seemed as though this second clone was perfectly happy to embrace paranoia for different reasons.
"Their first impressions weren't the best, I'll admit, but they still mean well. I can still try to talk my way out of that misunderstanding-based mess. That will change if I actually start breaking the law."
"My worry, and probably Roma's as well, is that you'll try to 'behave' long past the point where doing so is incredibly harmful to you. Adherence to unreasonable laws shouldn't be some immutable do not pass sign; you should always remember that you can disobey, and should hear Roma out when she starts proposing it as a solution."
"But that's not a problem yet," I stressed. "I really don't think it'll come to that, and I'm not stupid. Winslow made it pretty clear that authority figures can be belligerent assholes; if I need to disobey them, then fine, whatever. Happy?"
"Yup!" she chirped.
I blinked, taken aback. After all that, she couldn't seriously be finished exalting crime as an option, could she?
"No, I really am done with that part," she confirmed. "All I wanted there was for you to keep an open mind. So! Next up, we talk about how Roma is doing a way better job of the whole parenting thing than Dad is, and we shouldn't fight that."
I groaned. Of course the dreams were going to make me address the killer elephant in the room.
"Can we go back to discussing crimes?" I asked, more than halfway serious. I still didn't know what was going on there—calling it 'new and confusing' would be an incredible understatement— and I didn't like the idea of being forced into making any sort of conclusions.
"No," my clone happily rejected. "Look, I'm betting she could make a whole ton of money without even committing crimes. Don't tell me that there wouldn't be a market for magical works of art. With money comes options, and I'm willing to bet that she'll want to buy a cozier house somewhere to start spoiling us sweet."
My gaze shifted to the jewels in my clone's hair. No kidding.
"Yeah, Dad is trying. He's doing a really poor job, though; all he's really doing these days is cooking some dinners and providing for us. Roma can manage both. Plus, I'll bet that he'll get in the way or push the Wards if we start needing to do dangerous Cape stuff. Roma would support us unconditionally and is already planning to fight at our side."
This conversation was uncomfortable and I honestly hated it. I hoped that she got to the point soon so that I could tell her no and we could move on.
"Magic can do a lot of things," my clone continued. "Who's to say it can't make Dad forget us? I bet he'd be happier if he didn't need to spend as much time at work to pay the bills, and if he was free of needing to worry about us."
That was a gut punch I hadn't expected. I wordlessly opened and closed my mouth, torn between an automatic no and the fact that—well, Dad hadn't really been the same since Mom died. I'm not sure he would survive if he lost me, too, but if he simply forgot that there was anything to lose? That might work even if I hated the very idea. I wouldn't do it even if it were an option, because seriously what the fuck, but it still hurt to realize that I might be a net negative influence on his life.
"Still a no," I managed eventually.
"And if Roma presents herself as a relative of Mom, and offers to adopt? Then Dad can be assured that you're in good hands, and won't need to worry about us."
Fucking hell. She'd started with a blatantly unacceptable option on purpose, hadn't she?
"Dad might be gone most of the time, but that's better than Roma using guardianship as a weapon against us—er, against me."
"Roma wouldn't do that," my clone said with utterly baseless confidence.
"She's literally told us, to our—to my face, that giving her that level of control over me is a bad idea. Look, you brushed past Dad's efforts, and he can be annoying sometimes, but he is trying. He can do better, especially if we start improving life in the Bay for everyone and he isn't perpetually overworked."
I pushed myself upright and crossed my arms.
"So, are we done? I think anything more would just be going in circles. Honestly, I expected to learn something from all of this, not to tell myself no repeatedly."
Sure, Roma might betray me, but I'd always known that was a risk. It wasn't one I could do anything about without betraying her first, and it was a worry that I could banish within the next few days. If she didn't take advantage of my weakness now, then I doubted she ever would.
"You've always been able to leave," my clone chirped, and what. "It's just a matter of getting back up again."
Getting back u–
I almost wanted to hit myself. The school already had images of my bruises on file; I didn't need to keep them anymore. Roma had even told me that this ritual would require the use of my Aspect.
"Rise," I sighed, utterly done with this situation.
Energy fled me like blood in a shower, and I fell back into the chair. My eyes shot wide open with alarm for all of the two seconds that it took my rising exhaustion to force them shut, abruptly wondering if my evil twin had tricked me into making a mistake.
"Debatable and debated," was the last thing I heard.
I awoke on the unyielding wood of my bedroom floor and felt even worse than I had in the dream. My head simultaneously felt numb, heavy, and empty, with Roma's familiar presence nowhere to be found. Panic momentarily gripped my chest. Had she lied about what the ritual would do, or worse, been hurt by it?
"Roma?" I tried to shout, the word escaping me as a croak. "Where–"
My heart skipped a beat as a smooth, warm hand began stroking my hair.
"Sleep now, my dearest child. I'm not going anywhere," the Shade promised.
I relaxed. No disappearance, no betrayal, and no harm done. That still felt as though it had been far too easy, but I wouldn't invite misfortune by being paranoid about it.
Good night.
No response was forthcoming. I had just enough time to realize, with some dismay, that she couldn't hear me. Unconsciousness took hold a moment later.
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- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Whoops, accidentally posted the wrong version for a few minutes there. Fixed.
- Location
- Cardiff
Well, this vision quest definitely fit in with the themes of the ones in PGtE, where both extremes were right to a point but also wrong to a much greater point.
How will Roma being separate to Taylor effect Gallant's emotion detection? Will it appear that she's no longer mastered or will there now be a tether of sorts that he could use to track Roma's new physical form down?
How will Roma being separate to Taylor effect Gallant's emotion detection? Will it appear that she's no longer mastered or will there now be a tether of sorts that he could use to track Roma's new physical form down?
- Location
- Bowling Green
The ritual was explicitly not to bring her back to life, since she has to be in between Dead and Alive to be The Shade.
That's probably the only reason it didn't cost her an arm and a leg
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*Angry Edward Elric noises*
- Location
- The Old Dominion
Admittedly a caster losing body parties is only one possibility.
There is also the subject comes back with no memories sometimes with side order of them becoming an enemy of the caster, the subject comes back wrong either as some sort of undead or some other form of monster and of course the ritual to bring them back or heal them doesn't fully work so a repeated sacrifices are needed to keep the subject around.
There is also the subject comes back with no memories sometimes with side order of them becoming an enemy of the caster, the subject comes back wrong either as some sort of undead or some other form of monster and of course the ritual to bring them back or heal them doesn't fully work so a repeated sacrifices are needed to keep the subject around.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's so much to pull out in this chapter, so let's get started!
It's fascinating (and such a good writing choice) how these aren't just platonic ideals of opposing or accepting Roma. They're what parts of Taylor make her want to reject or accept Roma and that's totally different! So the rejection part makes a point that Taylor should hear (this is manipulative, Roma is telling you this because you're desperate to hear it) with an argument Taylor should really not (it's fake because we're unlovable).
No! Taylor no! You are not the Emma in this situation, Roma is! But of course she's susceptible to seeing it this way.
I think what Taylor is missing here (and of course she is, Roma has no need to talk about this) is that Narrative is only a nudge. If she's lying there helpless, Roma could just kill her. It might set her on a narrative path that makes her vulnerable to certain villain tropes and ends, but Heroes and Innocents aren't invulnerable. They can and do die. Heroes especially, when they do stupid shit.
Hmm. If I had to guess, it's an allegory for how Taylor doesn't have to engage with any cape conflict or do any of this.
The moment this was revealed to be an over the top illusion, I was guessing that this might be part of it. Present the blatant over the top unacceptable villain end as a joke to make particularly visible markers of that end feel like part of the joke rather than a legitimate concern.
Okay but she explicitly does not! Her support is extremely conditional! Nothing but conditions!
shrieks in "knows anything about revolutions"
(First off, Taylor is 15, very vulnerable, hasn't had a great high school academic career, and many adults don't realize this, so I don't blame her for not realizing this.)
It's fascinating (and such a good writing choice) how these aren't just platonic ideals of opposing or accepting Roma. They're what parts of Taylor make her want to reject or accept Roma and that's totally different! So the rejection part makes a point that Taylor should hear (this is manipulative, Roma is telling you this because you're desperate to hear it) with an argument Taylor should really not (it's fake because we're unlovable).
No! Taylor no! You are not the Emma in this situation, Roma is! But of course she's susceptible to seeing it this way.
I think what Taylor is missing here (and of course she is, Roma has no need to talk about this) is that Narrative is only a nudge. If she's lying there helpless, Roma could just kill her. It might set her on a narrative path that makes her vulnerable to certain villain tropes and ends, but Heroes and Innocents aren't invulnerable. They can and do die. Heroes especially, when they do stupid shit.
Hmm. If I had to guess, it's an allegory for how Taylor doesn't have to engage with any cape conflict or do any of this.
The moment this was revealed to be an over the top illusion, I was guessing that this might be part of it. Present the blatant over the top unacceptable villain end as a joke to make particularly visible markers of that end feel like part of the joke rather than a legitimate concern.
Okay but she explicitly does not! Her support is extremely conditional! Nothing but conditions!
shrieks in "knows anything about revolutions"
(First off, Taylor is 15, very vulnerable, hasn't had a great high school academic career, and many adults don't realize this, so I don't blame her for not realizing this.)
But aaaahhhh! No! Roma has an ideology, that social mobility is a desirable thing. That doesn't mean a world with her in charge would actually be more socially mobile! Most obviously, I'm not actually sure I believe Praes is genuinely more socially mobile than Worm!US. Praes is a land of predominately subsistence farmers. The historical social mobility of subsistence farmers is basically nill. Maybe in the cities those farmers enable there's the possibility of social mobility and maybe people who leave the Green Stretch occasionally do Villain stuff, but that's a statement on hypothetical maximum mobility. Hers still has to be a society where 95+% of people have no mobility in practice.
And setting that aside, as for whether she could apply her ideals to Brockton Bay in practice ... maybe? But like, let's use Soviet Russia under Lenin as an example. Everyone in the upper echelons of Lenin's Communist party was a true believer in the rights of urban factory workers (it was kind of their core thing). They did institute workers unions for factories in the cities. They very vocally championed and believed that this would improve things for the workers. But the actual reforms they implemented did not in practice improve the situation of urban factory workers. Union leadership was not actually tied to any form of democratic or collective approval, so they had no incentive to do right by the workers they ostensibly represented, and the reforms which kept Lenin's party in power were not the same as reforms which benefitted workers, so nothing improved.
The ideology of a leader, especially a revolutionary leader looking to create a new structure, does not necessarily mean the incentive structure they create will produce outcomes in line with that ideology. Actual policies and plans and practical mechanism are important damnit! (At least, assuming there's not weird Name bullshit there, but from what I remember ApGTE seemed rather derisive of the idea that Named wanting to do right by people directly led to that happening.)
And setting that aside, as for whether she could apply her ideals to Brockton Bay in practice ... maybe? But like, let's use Soviet Russia under Lenin as an example. Everyone in the upper echelons of Lenin's Communist party was a true believer in the rights of urban factory workers (it was kind of their core thing). They did institute workers unions for factories in the cities. They very vocally championed and believed that this would improve things for the workers. But the actual reforms they implemented did not in practice improve the situation of urban factory workers. Union leadership was not actually tied to any form of democratic or collective approval, so they had no incentive to do right by the workers they ostensibly represented, and the reforms which kept Lenin's party in power were not the same as reforms which benefitted workers, so nothing improved.
The ideology of a leader, especially a revolutionary leader looking to create a new structure, does not necessarily mean the incentive structure they create will produce outcomes in line with that ideology. Actual policies and plans and practical mechanism are important damnit! (At least, assuming there's not weird Name bullshit there, but from what I remember ApGTE seemed rather derisive of the idea that Named wanting to do right by people directly led to that happening.)
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Kemayo
A Certain Cheerful Tone Of Voice
- Location
- Missouri
Catherine's name dreams all worked on a Good/Evil (+ viewpoint) basis, and this chapter was very much based on those.
I think this did well at capturing the vibe from APGTE's name dreams -- the two perspectives which can each be agreed with, but which each go too far in their own way, and by hearing them the protagonist sees the parts they disagree with and can then synthesize a position that works for themself.
Interestingly, it seems like strengthening Roma has removed part of the objection that paranoid!Taylor had to trusting Roma -- if Roma isn't in Taylor's head any more, Taylor won't be potentially-deceived by maybe-faked emotions and Roma can't perfectly-tailor her words by reading Taylor's thoughts.
(The real reason to not back out at this point, of course, is that the story of "reneging on your deal with the powerful imprisoned being at the last minute" does not go well.)
APGTE makes it pretty clear that Praes winds up falling prey to the standard failings of "meritocracy" -- entrenched power can ensure that its scions accrue more "merit" and thus perpetuate an aristocracy even if technically anyone can also demonstrate that merit. That said, it's also (at the time of the story's beginning) ruled over by a former barmaid and a farmer who clawed their way to the top.
The nature of Creation letting people who're suited to it get a Name, and that inherently pushing them to the center of power, makes it automatically somewhat truly-meritocratic.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yes. It's always in the stories that end with that though (arguably because the story stops before the bad stuff or there isn't any story left to tell). If you want examples, go to TVtropes yourself. I have a lot to do today and can't be sucked in.