This is more of a concept timeline than a hard alt-history timeline but I've always wanted to write a version of the The Seize of Power by William Allen except set in a small English town in the aftermath of a succesful Operation Sealion. (I've not quite worked out how the unmentionable would suceed ITTL and to some extent it doesn't really matter, just that it does.)
Alt History ideas, rec and general discussion thread
- Thread starter Teen Spirit
- Start date
- Discussion
FiskenIsFishy
Cyber-blanquism enjoyer
- Location
- East Asian Federation
- Pronouns
- Any/All
How possible would it have been for the Russian revolutionaries to adopt the name Eurasia in order to be more inclusive in a scenario where the 1905 revolution succeeded?
BBadolato
Experiencer of Bij
- Location
- The Netherworld
Very unlikely assuming you can even gauge what a successful 1905 Revolution even looks like. And the forerunners to Eurasianism might be more of an intellectual thing.
FiskenIsFishy
Cyber-blanquism enjoyer
- Location
- East Asian Federation
- Pronouns
- Any/All
Does Red Flood count?
Mazeka
You must be joking
- Location
- United States
Maybe. But are there any non-Hearts of Iron 4 timelines?
King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
- Location
- Indiana
A Day in July has a Red Japan later on. Somehow makes the statement "The communists overthrew the liberal government to protect the Emperor" make sense.
A Day in July: An Early 20th Century Timeline
A Day in July - An Introduction Bolshevik Leaders Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Lenin Dawn, 5th (18 N.S.) of July 1917 (1) Pravda Offices, Petrograd, Russian Empire (2) Seventeen-year old Kolya Stepanovich studied his fellow military cadets, gathered awaiting the final details of their orders...
www.alternatehistory.com
Was going to recommend this one, the one example I've ever seen where MonSoc actually makes sense.
Mazeka
You must be joking
- Location
- United States
Is this timeline any good? It got recommended to me on Discord.
Red Sun Rising: The Reverse-Russo-Japanese War
Exert from John MacIntyre's ‘Baptised in Blood and Fire: The Story of Revolutionary Ideologies in East Asia’, 1982, pp.124 “The vast continent of Asia’s history is prolific and rich in ways that are greatly overlooked in our European culture, with long and ancient traditions being formed and...
www.alternatehistory.com
FiskenIsFishy
Cyber-blanquism enjoyer
- Location
- East Asian Federation
- Pronouns
- Any/All
It's got the "every socialist state in alternate history must have its own Stalin analogue" cliche tbh
King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
- Location
- Indiana
Maybe something like this
Maybe also throw in the Iran Hostage Crisis escalating into a massacre and then war, and a worse Three Mile Island accident. Kill Bush too and get President Haig.Mad Bad Rabbit said:
Squidfam
Functionary of the Gender-Communist Party
- Location
- Atlantis, Sweden
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh hey, didn't expect to ever get a shout-out like this! But yes, I do have plans for Japan and East Asia in general which involve socialism that isn't "imposed" by an outside power a la the soviets. Things have admittedly been standing very still in terms of actual timeline entries for... A number of reasons, but for those who don't mind spoilers i have a whole heap of timeline-related stuff on my deviantart to check out in the meantime.
Not my idea, just reposting what Generatednam wrote. Stalin getting hit with the Uno Reverse by having his own playbook turned on him and declared counter-revolutionary & purged appeals to me greatly.
forums.spacebattles.com
QUOTE="Generatedname:
With all that said, all this talk of Raymond and Lily Shen has gotten me thinking more on when and where exactly I *would* introduce them. I had always planned to introduce them in the China arc that I'd started to set up with the India deal, but at what stage I was not yet sure due to that arc still being relatively early in its conceptual stage.
Now though, I believe I have an idea. As usual though, we will have to start with some background.
Raymond Shen, to the best of my knowledge, is Taiwanese. Admittedly, his background isn't listed anywhere in Ufopaedia, so it might have been something I internalized from another fic rather than being anything official, but regardless it works out very well.
Now, to determine where he would fit in, let's look at the history of Taiwan. In our world, Taiwan is where the Kuomintang and ROC military retreated to following the successful Communist uprising under Mao. Before the ROC took it over following the end of WWII though, it was ruled over by Japan as a colonial possession for around 50 years, and before then it was a part of China under the Qing dynasty.
In the world of this fic, however, things played out much differently for China, and it all comes down to Emperor Puyi. One thing to note about Puyi is that he was more or less shoved onto the throne at age 2, and was turned into an ineffective puppet for the entirety of his reign, abdicating in 1912. This would be similar to what was going on in the CG timeline, with the Qing monarchy being effectively dissolved when he was just 6 hears old and him being removed from the throne while still not entirely understanding what the hell was going on.
In our timeline, he would go on to become an ineffective, Opium-addicted puppet of the Japanese, and it's a pretty sad story overall. Perhaps fortunately for him, after the Communist takeover Mao Zedong wanted to flex on the Soviets and demonstrate the superiority of his own interpretetation of Communist philosophy and so decided to make Puyi convert to Communism, while the Soviets had elected to simply kill their own Emperor.
However, there is one key figure in Puyi's life that, in the CG timeline, would have made all the difference, and that is Reginald Johnston. In our timeline, Johnston was a Scottish scholar who was hired as a tutor for Puyi after his abdication, and Puyi in turn developed a great admiration for the man, at one point wishing to leave China entirely in order to study at Oxford... (And incidentally, also introduced Puyi to the Telephone, leading to the Emperor enthusiastically prank-calling people all over Beijing for fun).
In this fic's timeline though... Reginald Johnston would have been Britannian, and he would have brought him a very Britannian mindset towards conquest and rulership. Under his tutelage, Puyi would in turn have been far more militaristic and rulership-minded, and would have grown to see his forced coronation and subsequent abdication as a travesty. Thus, he would begin planning to take back his throne in earnest.
At this point in time, China was a mess. With the Qing dynasty having formally collapsed (though it had been rotten for a while by now), China was firmly in its warlord era. You would have had a plethora of wannabe-despots trying to take over, former provinces and client states declaring independence, and revolutionaries attempting to establish an EU-style Republic. Into this mess, then, come the Communists under Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhughashvili, better known under his pen-name of Stalin, as well as Leon Trotsky. They had just been forced out of Russia after an unsuccessful attempt at government takeover had left Lenin dead and the Tsar restored as a constitutional figurehead of a new Kolchak-led government.
Communist rhetoric, however, would greatly appeal to the peasants of China, and soon enough a new, powerful Communist faction would emerge in the ongoing Chinese civil war. As he watched all this, however, Puyi would realize that the Communists had a critical weakness in their leadership. While communist rhetoric and philosophy greatly appealed to the Chinese peasants, the thought of being led by foreigners from Russia was considerably less palatable to them. They needed legitimacy, and Puyi would exploit this. He would declare himself to be a Communist and insert himself into the Russian leadership of the Chinese Soviet, granting them much needed legitimacy while also giving him the opportunity to start wresting control of the Soviet's affairs from the Russians. In time, he would grow strong enough to no longer need the Russians, and in true Communist fashion would declare that their Marxist-Leninist philosophy was counter-revolutionary and have them all executed. Thus, Puyi would end up taking full control of the Chinese Communist Party and implement his own form of Communism with Chinese Characteristics (Aka more or less what we see in Code Geass).
Now, what does this have to do with Taiwan and Dr. Shen?
I mentioned earlier that there was a faction in the Chinese Civil War that sought to establish an EU-style republic, which would have been roughly analogous to the Kuomintang of our timeline. For a time, this faction would have been the strongest in the civil war, receiving considerable foreign military aid from the EU as EU nations drew down their stocks of war materiel following the end of WWI. However, as military tensions began to rise in Europe, along with economic issues, this support began to dry up, while at home domestic support began to wane as well as Communist ideology grew more widespread.
During this time, in addition to fighting itself, China was also being invaded by the Japanese, who sought to take advantage of Chinese weakness for their own imperial ambitions. The Communists under Puyi were able to mount a fierce defense in Manchuria, ultimately driving the Japanese out, which further increased their popular support. Desiring a victory of their own, the Republic of China would decide to take the fight to Japanese-held Taiwan. Japan, at this point weakened, was unable to defend the island, though taking it still cost the RoC a considerable amount of irreplaceable resources, ultimately leaving it vulnerable to Communist takeover in the mainland. As the Communists took over the entirety of China, establishing the Chinese Federation, the ROC would flee across the Taiwan Straits and proclaim themselves as the legitimate rulers of China.
Unfortunately for them, while in our timeline the US and other Western nations were willing to supply Taiwan with weapons to resist China, here the ROC had no such luck. The Chinese Federation would conquer Taiwan soon afterwards, officially declaring itself the uncontested ruler of all of China. However, ideals don't die so easily, and in the time since Taiwan has been a hotbed of anti-Communist uprisings and unrest. Thus, Taiwan remains a Militarized Zone instead of being turned into an Autonomous Region or fully integrated into the Chinese metropole.
We also know that as of 2017 a.t.b, China is a MASSIVE POWDER KEG. In the decades since Puyi's death, a Eunuch faction has once more managed to take power, and nobody seems to really like them. In fact, we saw just how little people liked them when Zero livestreamed their speech to all of China. While you would expect such a speech to generate a rebellion, the fact that it caused the military to mutiny nationwide, and for the citizens to all rise up more or less simultaneously at the drop of a hat tells you just how tenuous the High Eunuchs' grip on power truly is, and perhaps tells you why they were so eager to sell out to Britannia.
Thus, it is almost certain that the Taiwan Militarized Zone would be just as full of rebels as everywhere else, and that the Shens would be aligned with one such group. Most likely, they would serve as its source of equipment, coordinating with rebel organizations elsewhere in China, as well as with criminal organizations and corrupt/disillusioned military members to acquire, upgrade and produce equipment for an eventual uprising. This is where they would be at the story's start, at least.
As for how they would enter the story, how they would be affected by the Aliens before then and the like... Well, that would have to wait until I can get an Interlude out to look at global events, at least for now.
The Grey Chessmen - A Code Geass/X-Com Crossover
Code Geass/X-Com Crossover Some liberties taken with the Code Geass setting, so I guess it is kinda an AU?
forums.spacebattles.com
QUOTE="Generatedname:
With all that said, all this talk of Raymond and Lily Shen has gotten me thinking more on when and where exactly I *would* introduce them. I had always planned to introduce them in the China arc that I'd started to set up with the India deal, but at what stage I was not yet sure due to that arc still being relatively early in its conceptual stage.
Now though, I believe I have an idea. As usual though, we will have to start with some background.
Raymond Shen, to the best of my knowledge, is Taiwanese. Admittedly, his background isn't listed anywhere in Ufopaedia, so it might have been something I internalized from another fic rather than being anything official, but regardless it works out very well.
Now, to determine where he would fit in, let's look at the history of Taiwan. In our world, Taiwan is where the Kuomintang and ROC military retreated to following the successful Communist uprising under Mao. Before the ROC took it over following the end of WWII though, it was ruled over by Japan as a colonial possession for around 50 years, and before then it was a part of China under the Qing dynasty.
In the world of this fic, however, things played out much differently for China, and it all comes down to Emperor Puyi. One thing to note about Puyi is that he was more or less shoved onto the throne at age 2, and was turned into an ineffective puppet for the entirety of his reign, abdicating in 1912. This would be similar to what was going on in the CG timeline, with the Qing monarchy being effectively dissolved when he was just 6 hears old and him being removed from the throne while still not entirely understanding what the hell was going on.
In our timeline, he would go on to become an ineffective, Opium-addicted puppet of the Japanese, and it's a pretty sad story overall. Perhaps fortunately for him, after the Communist takeover Mao Zedong wanted to flex on the Soviets and demonstrate the superiority of his own interpretetation of Communist philosophy and so decided to make Puyi convert to Communism, while the Soviets had elected to simply kill their own Emperor.
However, there is one key figure in Puyi's life that, in the CG timeline, would have made all the difference, and that is Reginald Johnston. In our timeline, Johnston was a Scottish scholar who was hired as a tutor for Puyi after his abdication, and Puyi in turn developed a great admiration for the man, at one point wishing to leave China entirely in order to study at Oxford... (And incidentally, also introduced Puyi to the Telephone, leading to the Emperor enthusiastically prank-calling people all over Beijing for fun).
In this fic's timeline though... Reginald Johnston would have been Britannian, and he would have brought him a very Britannian mindset towards conquest and rulership. Under his tutelage, Puyi would in turn have been far more militaristic and rulership-minded, and would have grown to see his forced coronation and subsequent abdication as a travesty. Thus, he would begin planning to take back his throne in earnest.
At this point in time, China was a mess. With the Qing dynasty having formally collapsed (though it had been rotten for a while by now), China was firmly in its warlord era. You would have had a plethora of wannabe-despots trying to take over, former provinces and client states declaring independence, and revolutionaries attempting to establish an EU-style Republic. Into this mess, then, come the Communists under Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhughashvili, better known under his pen-name of Stalin, as well as Leon Trotsky. They had just been forced out of Russia after an unsuccessful attempt at government takeover had left Lenin dead and the Tsar restored as a constitutional figurehead of a new Kolchak-led government.
Communist rhetoric, however, would greatly appeal to the peasants of China, and soon enough a new, powerful Communist faction would emerge in the ongoing Chinese civil war. As he watched all this, however, Puyi would realize that the Communists had a critical weakness in their leadership. While communist rhetoric and philosophy greatly appealed to the Chinese peasants, the thought of being led by foreigners from Russia was considerably less palatable to them. They needed legitimacy, and Puyi would exploit this. He would declare himself to be a Communist and insert himself into the Russian leadership of the Chinese Soviet, granting them much needed legitimacy while also giving him the opportunity to start wresting control of the Soviet's affairs from the Russians. In time, he would grow strong enough to no longer need the Russians, and in true Communist fashion would declare that their Marxist-Leninist philosophy was counter-revolutionary and have them all executed. Thus, Puyi would end up taking full control of the Chinese Communist Party and implement his own form of Communism with Chinese Characteristics (Aka more or less what we see in Code Geass).
Now, what does this have to do with Taiwan and Dr. Shen?
I mentioned earlier that there was a faction in the Chinese Civil War that sought to establish an EU-style republic, which would have been roughly analogous to the Kuomintang of our timeline. For a time, this faction would have been the strongest in the civil war, receiving considerable foreign military aid from the EU as EU nations drew down their stocks of war materiel following the end of WWI. However, as military tensions began to rise in Europe, along with economic issues, this support began to dry up, while at home domestic support began to wane as well as Communist ideology grew more widespread.
During this time, in addition to fighting itself, China was also being invaded by the Japanese, who sought to take advantage of Chinese weakness for their own imperial ambitions. The Communists under Puyi were able to mount a fierce defense in Manchuria, ultimately driving the Japanese out, which further increased their popular support. Desiring a victory of their own, the Republic of China would decide to take the fight to Japanese-held Taiwan. Japan, at this point weakened, was unable to defend the island, though taking it still cost the RoC a considerable amount of irreplaceable resources, ultimately leaving it vulnerable to Communist takeover in the mainland. As the Communists took over the entirety of China, establishing the Chinese Federation, the ROC would flee across the Taiwan Straits and proclaim themselves as the legitimate rulers of China.
Unfortunately for them, while in our timeline the US and other Western nations were willing to supply Taiwan with weapons to resist China, here the ROC had no such luck. The Chinese Federation would conquer Taiwan soon afterwards, officially declaring itself the uncontested ruler of all of China. However, ideals don't die so easily, and in the time since Taiwan has been a hotbed of anti-Communist uprisings and unrest. Thus, Taiwan remains a Militarized Zone instead of being turned into an Autonomous Region or fully integrated into the Chinese metropole.
We also know that as of 2017 a.t.b, China is a MASSIVE POWDER KEG. In the decades since Puyi's death, a Eunuch faction has once more managed to take power, and nobody seems to really like them. In fact, we saw just how little people liked them when Zero livestreamed their speech to all of China. While you would expect such a speech to generate a rebellion, the fact that it caused the military to mutiny nationwide, and for the citizens to all rise up more or less simultaneously at the drop of a hat tells you just how tenuous the High Eunuchs' grip on power truly is, and perhaps tells you why they were so eager to sell out to Britannia.
Thus, it is almost certain that the Taiwan Militarized Zone would be just as full of rebels as everywhere else, and that the Shens would be aligned with one such group. Most likely, they would serve as its source of equipment, coordinating with rebel organizations elsewhere in China, as well as with criminal organizations and corrupt/disillusioned military members to acquire, upgrade and produce equipment for an eventual uprising. This is where they would be at the story's start, at least.
As for how they would enter the story, how they would be affected by the Aliens before then and the like... Well, that would have to wait until I can get an Interlude out to look at global events, at least for now.
Last edited:
Kolchak putting Nicholas back on the throne, even as a puppet, kind of threw me off.
I'm pretty sure that no-one, not even the few portions of the White Movement that remained monarchists, was looking to restore Nicholas or his children in any capacity. Hell, for all that their own internal ratfuckery and treachery has long-since obliterated whatever ghost's fart of a chance of clawing their way into some fringe far right place like other deposed royal families; I don't think the rest of the Romanovs would want him back/alive either.
Nicholas might never have been more loved than in post Russian Civil War anti-communist propaganda, but there was as I understand it every chance the Whites would have executed him and his family themselves had they captured Yekaterinburg.
Kind of makes me wonder if a show trial and execution of Nicholas and Alexandra, if only for their role in making a complete balls of the war, almost immediately would have helped or hindered the provisional government in buying themselves time.
I'm pretty sure that no-one, not even the few portions of the White Movement that remained monarchists, was looking to restore Nicholas or his children in any capacity. Hell, for all that their own internal ratfuckery and treachery has long-since obliterated whatever ghost's fart of a chance of clawing their way into some fringe far right place like other deposed royal families; I don't think the rest of the Romanovs would want him back/alive either.
Nicholas might never have been more loved than in post Russian Civil War anti-communist propaganda, but there was as I understand it every chance the Whites would have executed him and his family themselves had they captured Yekaterinburg.
Kind of makes me wonder if a show trial and execution of Nicholas and Alexandra, if only for their role in making a complete balls of the war, almost immediately would have helped or hindered the provisional government in buying themselves time.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
Yeah, other Romanovs were pointedly trying to pull an old school palace coup by the time of the feburuary revolution which led to Nicholas giving up the throne to his more liked and more competent brother Micheal who responded by throwing the matter of wither he'd even take the throne to the Constituent Assembly...
Which Nicholas really should have seen coming given how often he apparently tried to and failed to screw over his brother and sneered at his brother's wife for not being 'of the proper blood'.
Of course, Micheal never wanted to be Czar in the first place and hated apparently Russian high society.
Which Nicholas really should have seen coming given how often he apparently tried to and failed to screw over his brother and sneered at his brother's wife for not being 'of the proper blood'.
Of course, Micheal never wanted to be Czar in the first place and hated apparently Russian high society.
What made his wife have 'unproper blood'? Like was she Catholic or just really rich new money? Also did Micheal survive since anyone who fucks over Nicholas like that doesn't deserve to die in my opinion.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
One part of it was she was the daughter of a commoner and worse she had been married to another officer when she met Micheal even if they had been separated and later became a divorcee to marry him.
As for Micheal, no he was arrested before he could leave the country and eventually, he was executed in secret by the Cheka being the first of the Romanovs to be put to death and then the Bolsheviks claimed he was kidnapped because apparently, they didn't have the nerve to claim they had killed him.
Of course, that apparently just led to rumors that he had escaped and was leading as successful counter-revolution against the Bolsheviks...
Of I am not sure what a successful counter-revolution led by a guy who didn't even want to be Czar would even look like.
Last edited:
King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
- Location
- Indiana
There is a perhaps troubling tendency in certain circles to fanboy about Theodore Roosevelt and gloss over the man's (many) flaws, and even treat him wanting to jump into the Great War from the get-go as a good thing.
So, had he won in 1912 under the Republican or Progressive ticket and managed to drag the country into war in 1915 or 16, what would you realistically expect the consequences to be? At the very least for obvious reasons it's going to be a much much bloodier conflict for the United States and I don't see why we wouldn't still get severe authoritarian crackdowns against anti-war agitators.
So, had he won in 1912 under the Republican or Progressive ticket and managed to drag the country into war in 1915 or 16, what would you realistically expect the consequences to be? At the very least for obvious reasons it's going to be a much much bloodier conflict for the United States and I don't see why we wouldn't still get severe authoritarian crackdowns against anti-war agitators.
As far as I can tell from my exceedingly limited knowledge, even without Nicholas sneering as his brother's marriage, and even without the revolution; Michael becoming Czar (because Alexei's chances of outliving Nicholas, in some strange timeline where Europe kept edging out of kicking off WWI again and again, were less than the chances of one of the Romanov branches getting the Russian throne back now) was likely to be a complete non-starter with the other Grand Dukes (who Nicholas had managed to piss off more than he had his brother) for the simple fact that he would have no eligible heir due to his son being from a morganatic marriage*; so all he's doing is holding off the Vladimirovichs for a few more years. Nicholas had apparently flirted with reversing Paul I's "fuck you mom" laws regarding female succession for Olga at one point, but Alexei's birth, constant failures and pissing off all the Dukes kind of removed the need/leverage.
Even if Michael had accepted the throne straight up instead of deferring to the assembly out of spite/self-preservation, there was the small issue of the imperial army's officers having more or less gone over/become very agnostic to the initial revolution ('fuck the Romanovs', 'how the fuck do we pull out collective dicks out of the meatgrinder' and 'how do we not get shot' being fairly bipartisan sentiments at this point. this changed quickly, obviously) at least partially due to Nicholas and Alexandra's dithering at the start of the revolution and the Vladimirovichs were already trying to cozy up to the provisional government-to-be; so he'd have kind of been fucked no matter what he did. The most he could have done would be getting his son, nephew and nieces out of Russia, but odds are the Czar's children would have been as big a liability for the Windsors as the Czar himself.
In terms of Alternate timelines, the Romanovs looking to do a coup (including, according to wiki, the Czar's own mother) cut a deal with the more reformist/liberal/moderate end of the february revolutionaries (before the Imperial Guard is put on the spot to demonstrate what the unprecedented meatgrinder of WWI does to the enforcers of the system) to try direct it away from themselves/abolishing the monarchy outright?
such an arrangement has an obvious shelf-life, but can it really be fucked up less than it would have gone OTL?
*The Romanovs sneering at Michael's marriage, and the Hapsburgs' snobbery and spite towards Sophie of Hohenburg arguably kicking the July Crisis into being the one to kick off WWI might be the more extreme end of the spectrum; but most of the European royal families operated under such strict marriage rules at the time that the Saxe-Coburg/Windsors peace'ing out to marry into English/Scottish nobility and gentry was comparatively unusual; and most modern ruling royals in Europe would likely have been disqualified from succession back then for being product of morganatic (Never mind Meghan; Kate Middleton, Diana and the Queen Mother would all have been considered unsuitable by Victoria.)
As far as I can glean, Michael's son wasn't even declared a prince till he was in exile and Cyril finally pegged just how few of the family was left.
Even if Michael had accepted the throne straight up instead of deferring to the assembly out of spite/self-preservation, there was the small issue of the imperial army's officers having more or less gone over/become very agnostic to the initial revolution ('fuck the Romanovs', 'how the fuck do we pull out collective dicks out of the meatgrinder' and 'how do we not get shot' being fairly bipartisan sentiments at this point. this changed quickly, obviously) at least partially due to Nicholas and Alexandra's dithering at the start of the revolution and the Vladimirovichs were already trying to cozy up to the provisional government-to-be; so he'd have kind of been fucked no matter what he did. The most he could have done would be getting his son, nephew and nieces out of Russia, but odds are the Czar's children would have been as big a liability for the Windsors as the Czar himself.
In terms of Alternate timelines, the Romanovs looking to do a coup (including, according to wiki, the Czar's own mother) cut a deal with the more reformist/liberal/moderate end of the february revolutionaries (before the Imperial Guard is put on the spot to demonstrate what the unprecedented meatgrinder of WWI does to the enforcers of the system) to try direct it away from themselves/abolishing the monarchy outright?
such an arrangement has an obvious shelf-life, but can it really be fucked up less than it would have gone OTL?
*The Romanovs sneering at Michael's marriage, and the Hapsburgs' snobbery and spite towards Sophie of Hohenburg arguably kicking the July Crisis into being the one to kick off WWI might be the more extreme end of the spectrum; but most of the European royal families operated under such strict marriage rules at the time that the Saxe-Coburg/Windsors peace'ing out to marry into English/Scottish nobility and gentry was comparatively unusual; and most modern ruling royals in Europe would likely have been disqualified from succession back then for being product of morganatic (Never mind Meghan; Kate Middleton, Diana and the Queen Mother would all have been considered unsuitable by Victoria.)
As far as I can glean, Michael's son wasn't even declared a prince till he was in exile and Cyril finally pegged just how few of the family was left.
Last edited:
Mazeka
You must be joking
- Location
- United States
Code Geass is the sort of universe where writers have to figure out their own headcanons for how history went.
Did Napoleon invade the British Isles, or was he invited in by republican revolutionaries? Does Marxism not exist, or was it merely heavily supppressed? Is Imperial China under a continuing Han dynasty, or is it a new dynasty that succeeded the Qing? Is Euro-Britannia canon?
Did Napoleon invade the British Isles, or was he invited in by republican revolutionaries? Does Marxism not exist, or was it merely heavily supppressed? Is Imperial China under a continuing Han dynasty, or is it a new dynasty that succeeded the Qing? Is Euro-Britannia canon?
- Location
- The Old Dominion
Yeah, Micheal's son was made a count but along with any possible future siblings was excluded from the line of succession so in the off chance that Micheal somehow had become Czar one way or another, he'd ultimately just be a placeholder emperor with the lack of heirs.
Though I suppose depending on the political circumstances in Russia lacking a direct successor might possibly be politically convenient.
It also brings to mind that in a world where world war one doesn't happen when it did and Nichlous got the boot, you could up with a situation with a Czar in Russia and an Emperor in Austria-Hungary both of whom have their children legally excluded from the Imperial succession with powerful relatives who have reasons that it stays that way.
I would wager the difference would be that, much as say the British royals might prefer their cousins keep the throne vs the Vladimirovichs, their unlikely to push to issue if a succession crisis emerges.
Any Austro-Hungarian succession crisis between Karl/Otto and Maximilian after Franz Ferdinand dies, or even if he decides to go back on the agreement disinheriting his children after becoming Emperor; is going to run into the fact that there is a very powerful, very belligerent, very stupid very mustachioed outside party who is absolutely going to weigh in on Franz Ferdinand's side, or Maximilian's if FF tried to make him the heir.
Franz Ferdinand incurred very bad karma for being one of the few royals in Europe who was actually friendly/could reason with Wilhelm.
Any Austro-Hungarian succession crisis between Karl/Otto and Maximilian after Franz Ferdinand dies, or even if he decides to go back on the agreement disinheriting his children after becoming Emperor; is going to run into the fact that there is a very powerful, very belligerent, very stupid very mustachioed outside party who is absolutely going to weigh in on Franz Ferdinand's side, or Maximilian's if FF tried to make him the heir.
Franz Ferdinand incurred very bad karma for being one of the few royals in Europe who was actually friendly/could reason with Wilhelm.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
I was thinking even excluding Willhelm I am reminded that for all he was conservative, Franz Ferdinand very much thought caring about the empire's minorities grievances was key to keeping the empire alive.
If let's say Franz carried out addressing the empire's minorities grievances including greater autonomy as he wanted what would happen if it looked like his successor since his children couldn't succeed him to the throne looked like they are going to throw said rights and autonomy under the bus?
Or in Russia if let's say a Czar Micheal actually let the national legislature operated, generally deferred to it and had nonautocratic reforms what would be the reaction be if his successor looked like they would be trying to go back to the far more autocratic old days of Nichlous II and Alexander III?
This was also because it was equally'maybe soem reform to keep the peasants from revolting' and the 'oh god the hungarians have us by the balls, we need to work together or they'll magyarize the entire region!' since Hungary kept attacking other minorities and threatening to withold grain from time to time