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Alt History ideas, rec and general discussion thread

I'm also thinking of some elements of Medieval Brittany. With it being a region that is culturally distinct from it's neighbors. That and unlike say modern Iceland or Faroe being of mixed Norse-Gaelic heritage. Only with it also being as much of a cultural mix as genetics.
 
So a strange multi-cross idea. Inspired by how Thedas is cannonlly in the Southern Hemisphere of their planet. Alongside how the Continent from Witcher sort of resembles the West Coast of North America.

What if both settings were transplanted onto the continents of the Pre-Columbian Hemisphere? Thedas existing on the the Southern most edge of South America and the Continent on the West Coast of North America. Either as an ISOT or have them always been a part of the New World.


It just seems interesting to imagine Age of Sail European's interacting with people that are both very familiar and very alien. Thedas alone has near modern gender equality despite being a roughly medieval setting. On top of magic, the qunari, darkspawn and their priesthood being exclusively women.
 
What about a Jurchen-speaking nation in Europe (Caucasus to be exact), something similar to Agent of Byzantium of Turtledove? Basically a POD is that Jin Dynasty was less succesful and a good number of them were forced to migrate west into Europe.

By the present day, these Jurchens are Jurchen in language only, like OTL Turks.
 
I had the weird idea of a Ming exile Armada making its way to the New World. Where they end up taking over Mesoamerica and cross assimilating.
 
kyuzoaoi said:
What about a Jurchen-speaking nation in Europe (Caucasus to be exact), something similar to Agent of Byzantium of Turtledove? Basically a POD is that Jin Dynasty was less succesful and a good number of them were forced to migrate west into Europe.

By the present day, these Jurchens are Jurchen in language only, like OTL Turks.
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Considering how many layers of ethnicity the Caucasus seem to have, that would fit neatly in there yes. Might retain slightly more identity than if they went as far west as the Turks maybe since the Caucausus will keep them more isolated?
 
That's what I am thinking. If the Qing make contact with them, these now Orthodox-ified Euro-Jurchens might serve as their intermediates.
 
Partially inspired with that, albeit they become more European in appearance like OTL Crimean Tatars and Turks.
 
In a Timeline set in the year 2150 a civilian there, who is over 170 years old, does the unthinkable

He ISOT various countries and subdivisions/states from various timelines and scatter them towards other Timelines! Some stay in the same place/area while others are thrown somewhere else

For example 1979, 2008, 2014 and 2022 Soviet/Russia have each Subdivision sent somewhere else. One subdivision of 2014 Russia is sent to the Chinese-Mongol border in the year 1190!

You can imagine the culture clash, tech progress and ironically secularization going on. The Uptimers will see the Downtimers as barbarians

As punishment, the future person is stripped of most of his cybernetics but retains all of his gene-editing. He is Livestreamed his time-traveling adventures, killing Nazis and other vile people! (Maybe listening to Sabaton!)
 
PT12 said:
I had the weird idea of a Ming exile Armada making its way to the New World. Where they end up taking over Mesoamerica and cross assimilating.
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You'll be happy to know there's a timeline with a very similar premise called Empire of the Dawn (except they land in San Francisco Bay instead). You'll also be sad to know it's unfinished and was last updated in 2015. However, the timeline and discussion that goes along with it are very interesting.
 
Considering the recent uptick in timelines on this sight, focused on encountering aliens. It got me thinking about a timeline that actually explores an alien invasion and it's aftermath. Especially in regards to the cultural shifts and the types of government to emerge from the ashes.

LeonSolarpunk said:
You'll be happy to know there's a timeline with a very similar premise called Empire of the Dawn (except they land in San Francisco Bay instead). You'll also be sad to know it's unfinished and was last updated in 2015. However, the timeline and discussion that goes along with it are very interesting.
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Thank you! I'll check it out sometime.

The idea of alternate cultural meldings and meetings have always interested me.
 
Im curious, are there TLs where the Mongols don't sack Baghdad, would the Islamic Golden Age still continue or not be crippled from the loss of Baghdad?
 
Mashriqi said:
Im curious, are there TLs where the Mongols don't sack Baghdad, would the Islamic Golden Age still continue or not be crippled from the loss of Baghdad?
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Probably, but even if the Mongols don't sack Baghdad I follow the view the Islamic Golden ended long before the sack had happened. Because by the Sack of Baghdad, the Abbasid Caliph authority barely existed outside Mesopotamia, and before the Mongols showed up the Anushtingids of Kwarezem invaded them at one point. How were you thinking of achieving the POD?
 
BBadolato said:
Probably, but even if the Mongols don't sack Baghdad I follow the view the Islamic Golden ended long before the sack had happened. Because by the Sack of Baghdad, the Abbasid Caliph authority barely existed outside Mesopotamia, and before the Mongols showed up the Anushtingids of Kwarezem invaded them at one point. How were you thinking of achieving the POD?
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I'm not sure, I haven't thought of a full fledged TL. But if im thinking of getting to the POD I would have Temujin get killed while he is still young by his rival Jamukha.
 
I think an interesting option is what if the mongols do conquer Baghdad but with more thought to preservation because their leadership is converting to islam and want to position themselves as guardians of the caliph.
 
Nyvis said:
I think an interesting option is what if the mongols do conquer Baghdad but with more thought to preservation because their leadership is converting to islam and want to position themselves as guardians of the caliph.
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Would that entail an even more Islamic Central Asia alongside even more Islamic influence within China?
 
Mashriqi said:
Would that entail an even more Islamic Central Asia alongside even more Islamic influence within China?
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No I think the empire would still splinter and whoever takes over China would probably ignore the whole Islam turn. Central Asia might remain within their reach from Baghdad or not, not sure, but I think they'd be more interested in trying to reunite the Islamic world.
 
I have to admit it the idea makes me think of some of the alternative history that popped up in Crusader Kings II like one playthrough when the Golden Horde had gone Catholic and somehow there was a Mongol Holy Roman Emperor which was the same playthrough where the Ilkhanate had gone Nestorian.

I can only try to imagine the politics that led to that happening and how umm interesting the crowning in Rome must have been.
 
Alane1 said:
I have to admit it the idea makes me think of some of the alternative history that popped up in Crusader Kings II like one playthrough when the Golden Horde had gone Catholic and somehow there was a Mongol Holy Roman Emperor which was the same playthrough where the Ilkhanate had gone Nestorian.

I can only try to imagine the politics that led to that happening and how umm interesting the crowning in Rome must have been.
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I admit it is funny imagining a bunch of yurts outside Rome and the new Holy Roman Emperor being descended from a people who had literally no contact with Rome. Not Holy, most definitely not Roman, and given how the Golden Horde governed the Rus' OTL, still not an empire, because the Mongols would prefer the steppe and probably the Hungarian Plain, leaving the rest of the HRE with a lot more autonomy outside of sending tribute and paying homage.
 
Mashriqi said:
I'm not sure, I haven't thought of a full fledged TL. But if im thinking of getting to the POD I would have Temujin get killed while he is still young by his rival Jamukha.
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That early and well I could see the Cahiphate just existing, but largely as a catspaw to other rulers or trying assert what independence it has, although 60+ years can lead to a lot of butterflies on its own

Nyvis said:
I think an interesting option is what if the mongols do conquer Baghdad but with more thought to preservation because their leadership is converting to islam and want to position themselves as guardians of the caliph.
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That's not particularly true with Ilkhans at the moment. Most of their leadership was still Buddhist, and more importantly, Baghdad was sacked because the Abassids refused to fully submit to Mongols who were still nominally united. The Calpih was no one special just another tributary. Now he could take the role of the Grand Duke of Vladimir and become something of a first among equals. Assuming the Ilkhans don't become Shia's and force the Abbassids out because they don't recognize them as a caliph.

Mashriqi said:
Would that entail an even more Islamic Central Asia alongside even more Islamic influence within China?
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I'm not sure what more you could get in regards to China you already had mosques and converts.
 
BBadolato said:
That's not particularly true with Ilkhans at the moment. Most of their leadership was still Buddhist, and more importantly, Baghdad was sacked because the Abassids refused to fully submit to Mongols who were still nominally united. The Calpih was no one special just another tributary. Now he could take the role of the Grand Duke of Vladimir and become something of a first among equals. Assuming the Ilkhans don't become Shia's and force the Abbassids out because they don't recognize them as a caliph.
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I don't think you understood what I meant. I was suggesting a divergence to make the mongols convert earlier and care more about preserving the city and caliphate, not saying that they were already there.
 
Speaking of the Mongols, I think alt-history has a tendency to assume that the Mongol Empire was inevitable. Crusader Kings 3 is a good example of this: by default, Temüjin always spawns and then gets a whole boatload of bonuses that essentially railroad the Mongol Empire into happening. In other timelines, even if Temüjin gets butterflied away or never becomes Genghis Khan, there's still some nomad leader that conquers enormous swathes of Eurasia.

But it seems to me the Mongol Empire was actually incredibly unlikely. First, Temüjin was a peerless general and leader, and I don't think anyone else could have unified and reorganized the Mongols like he did. Second, political circumstances around Genghis kicked up a perfect storm that enabled several rapid wars of conquest. The Khwarezmian leadership in particular bungled their response to him so badly they might as well have rolled out a red carpet for him. And third, his family managed several successions in a row without a serious civil war, which was itself an incredible feat.

My hot take is that if you change or remove any of those factors, the Mongol Empire is never born.
 
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