Remove ads

Alt History ideas, rec and general discussion thread

You certainly nailed that distinctive OSP flair my friend, this was a fun read. Don't know enough about Japanese history to comment but the hain of events feel plausible.

Did notice a few errors scattered throughout:

Zam said:
This was how he came into the servitude to Jesuit inspector, Alessandro Valignano, serving as the man's bodyguard and porter.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
Long story, but the country had been fractured, for over a century with tons of warlords and constant violence.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
He was awarded a katana, tutored on Bushido, tested on his combat skills and was given the rank of Nabunaga's weapon bearer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
Once started to spread, things got... Confused...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think there's a missing word here ^

Zam said:
Oda Nobukatsu briefly tried to claim he was his father's heir before finding out his older brother was alive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
In this specific situation he had his own political clout outside being a unique individual or good fighter, he'd avenged Nobunaga and was the last one to see him alive, meaning he bore the man's last will.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
This was made word thanks to Hideyoshi having accrued almost as much prestige as Nobutada.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
Overcome with rage he swore to crush the rebels and avenge his lord if it was the last thing he did and was making moves to rally the Oda clan's retainers the moment the news came.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
The first was to protect Tokuhime with his life, offering himself as her warrior or if she should wish it, her husband.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
It's even been suggested that Tokuhime had been dancing her way around potential marriages until Yasuke had enough standing to be a potential match, and by all accounts their relationship was quite positive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
Oda Yasuke would wed Tokuhime within the month and was awarded the ranks of Daijō-daijin and Kampaku. Essentially making the chief advisor and prime minister, with this and his command over an army Yasuke was Shogun in all but name.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Zam said:
Outside of some of the southern islands, Edo was and is the most diverse place in Nippon. A perpetual trade hub ruled by a former slave from across the world who now led a country?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Iscariotpaladin said:
You certainly nailed that distinctive OSP flair my friend, this was a fun read. Don't know enough about Japanese history to comment but the hain of events feel plausible.

Did notice a few errors scattered throughout:

I think there's a missing word here ^
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thank you, that is really great to hear! That's fair, I had to watch and read a fair bit to get the general sense of culture and events to nail this down, but I am glad it feels plausible!

Thanks for the corrections I'll work them in soon!
 
Considering redux's, au's and deconstructions of S.M Stirling's seem to be popular on this site. Has anyone ever thought about exploring the altered development of the Space Race from his Lord's of Creation duology? What kind of infrastructure would be developed, the technology trickle down and the changes in culture.
 
Zam said:
Thank you, that is really great to hear! That's fair, I had to watch and read a fair bit to get the general sense of culture and events to nail this down, but I am glad it feels plausible!

Thanks for the corrections I'll work them in soon!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Belongs in the cringe thread. Why?

Because clearly it cant be in the style of OSP without finding some excuse to gush about Domes. :p
 
A dark but interesting thought experiment. While the United States and Britain are well known for their special relationship. That hasn't always been the case with there having been periods of hostility between the two throughout the 19th century. Which got me thinking about the theme of "history repeats." Giving me the idea of the "Punic Wars of the Industrial Era." Putting the USA as Rome and the British Empire as Carthage.
 
I recently learned that Lenin wished for the Soviet Union to be a confederation rather than a federation when it was first formed. But later down the line, mostly because of Stalin, he was forced to compromise and make it into a federation rather than a new Russian Empire.

But what if Lenin managed to make the Soviet Union a confederation in 1922? How would it have changed? Would it have lived longer or shorter?
 
TheCourtofTalons said:
I recently learned that Lenin wished for the Soviet Union to be a confederation rather than a federation when it was first formed. But later down the line, mostly because of Stalin, he was forced to compromise and make it into a federation rather than a new Russian Empire.

But what if Lenin managed to make the Soviet Union a confederation in 1922? How would it have changed? Would it have lived longer or shorter?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In fact, Lenin was an opponent of the Federation - he believed that such a device breeds unnecessary bureaucracy, and violates economic ties with the regions. Another thing is that because of the civil war, all ties were already broken, and it was necessary to somehow negotiate with the former separatists. The USSR of 1922 was a necessary compromise for him.
 
What sort of leftist Alt-Hist timeline do you imagine with the title "A World to Win" or some variation of such?

"Nothing to Lose but your Chains" was Germany.
 
Mazeka said:
What sort of leftist Alt-Hist timeline do you imagine with the title "A World to Win" or some variation of such?

"Nothing to Lose but your Chains" was Germany.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe a TL focused on a character, someone like Garibaldi just going around helping however he can nations in revolution?
 
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

The Long March (a TNO-sequel Comintern quest)

It is the year 1975 and the world of TNO is unrecognizable from just ten years. The Second West-Russian War ends with neither the Russian Bear nor the German Eagle able to decisively defeat the other, Japan licks its wounds from its defeat in the Third Sino-Japanese War while America falls into...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com forums.sufficientvelocity.com

We're a fairly active quest. Feel free to join us and help save the world of TNO.
 
A quest about stopping people from making the TNO mod? Well that's certainly a novel id- oh. Not that kind of "saving the world from TNO."
 
So how workable would it be for a Norse-Gaelic kingdom to get established in Medieval Spain? Just wondering because its interesting to imagine such a group living with the Spanish to the East and Al-Andalus to the South. Especially if they're at least at first Norse Pagan or Insular Christian.

Heck a Norse-Gaelic turned kingdom of Ireland, Scotland and the Isles of Man could be interesting in opposition to England.
 
PT12 said:
Heck a Norse-Gaelic turned kingdom of Ireland, Scotland and the Isles of Man could be interesting in opposition to England.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is a problem - the Gaels and Norwegians have one bad trait. A high level of ambition of local lords with disrespect for the central government. So if an island lord manages to conquer Scotland (which I doubt, because the resources are not the same), then the state will quickly collapse.
PT12 said:
So how workable would it be for a Norse-Gaelic kingdom to get established in Medieval Spain? Just wondering because its interesting to imagine such a group living with the Spanish to the East and Al-Andalus to the South. Especially if they're at least at first Norse Pagan or Insular Christian.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
First, "insular Christianity" is overrated. Secondly - most likely over time they will be assimilated.
 
PT12 said:
So how workable would it be for a Norse-Gaelic kingdom to get established in Medieval Spain? Just wondering because its interesting to imagine such a group living with the Spanish to the East and Al-Andalus to the South. Especially if they're at least at first Norse Pagan or Insular Christian.

Heck a Norse-Gaelic turned kingdom of Ireland, Scotland and the Isles of Man could be interesting in opposition to England.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I've seen alt history go with Norse settlement around Galicia and Asturias turn into something like the Normans. With most of Spain still controlled by Al-Andalus, there won't be that much of a Christian pushback and they might in fact be welcome as a defense once they convert. It's also a fairly distinct part of Spain already and they could easily form enough roots to keep a separate kingdom if a reconquista still happens, though they could just as easily end up leading the nobility of Christian Spain entirely.
 
Last edited:
I had a timeline idea of William going south to carve out a kingdom (the Ivreans did it with Portugal after all), eventually resulting in a Norman Andalusia a la Sicily.
 
Comrade Future said:
First, "insular Christianity" is overrated. Secondly - most likely over time they will be assimilated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nyvis said:
I've seen alt history go with Norse settlement around Galicia and Asturias turn into something like the Normans. With most of Spain still controlled by Al-Andalus, there won't be that much of a Christian pushback and they might in fact be welcome as a defense once they convert. It's also a fairly distinct part of Spain already and they could easily form enough roots to keep a separate kingdom if a reconquista still happens, though they could just as easily end up leading the nobility of Christian Spain entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I did figure that they would most likely eventually assimilate or get absorbed by the neighboring. Still having them become something like the Normans would be interesting.
 
I feel the big question for this is premise is when? Because depending on the answer both Al-Andalus and Asturias/Leon could be dealing with their own troubles, but what Norse-Gael realm where you thinking of using exactly? Also, define Normans here, Norman England or Norman Sicily? Those are two different beasts to go use as a model.

Although considering how Norman Sicily came to be, that might be the better basis for this premise.
 
BBadolato said:
I feel the big question for this is premise is when? Because depending on the answer both Al-Andalus and Asturias/Leon could be dealing with their own troubles, but what Norse-Gael realm where you thinking of using exactly? Also, define Normans here, Norman England or Norman Sicily? Those are two different beasts to go use as a model.

Although considering how Norman Sicily came to be, that might be the better basis for this premise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Depending on the period it could also be Norman Normandy. Not like Sicily or England where the Normans had already assimilated quite a lot, but Norse raiders being offered land and title to help defend the land. If north-west Spain is facing both Norse and Andalusian raiders, they might be eager for some new warriors and make a deal similar to the one that made Normandy a place of settlement.

But they're also much weaker and smaller than France so they could easily get taken over entirely over time.
 
I think people are too quick to assume assimilation and conversion when it comes to this stuff, but that's just me.
 
Zam said:
I think people are too quick to assume assimilation and conversion when it comes to this stuff, but that's just me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

When it comes to the Norse, it's not. Almost everywhere they went and conquered they assimilated, to some degree. Normandy, the British Isles, the lands of the Rus. Although you can always have some fun with what that assimilation looks like.
 
PT12 said:
I always take such things as more long term. With it really starting more along the time of the grand or great grandchildren of the original arrivals.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
BBadolato said:
When it comes to the Norse, it's not. Almost everywhere they went and conquered they assimilated, to some degree. Normandy, the British Isles, the lands of the Rus. Although you can always have some fun with what that assimilation looks like.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Having poked around this is an oversimplification.

In France they assimilated pretty quickly. In Ireland they basically tore the place to shred and then assimilated. In Britain they never assimilated. So it depends and is hardly a smooth process.
 
A big part of this is demographics. Norman Sicily was never more than a small number of freebooting mercenaries- something like a few thousand IIRC- whereas England, I think, a rather larger number of Continental implants.

A Norman presence in Iberia almost certainly would look a lot like that in Southern Italy- mercenary-pilgrims showing up and opportunistically maneuvering around and through the fragmented local polities. Much as in Sicily, they would also probably retain much of the local bureaucracy and culture, simply slapping themselves and their religion on top of Andalusian (etc.) society.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top