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Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 8: Haggard Host Hopefully Homestead Hazardous Haven

Jinnt said:
No we spent 2 votes trying to talk to them here. We laid out arguments taking into account Clarity we may not have by the time we get to Philly. Also what reason do the undersiders have to even wind up there besides our stunt? It doesn't really come together.
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I wasn't exactly happen with things either, Jinnt, but what's done is done. Stop whining already.
 
Klaus said:
A) Gromweld has already said the undersiders would be in Philly. We are getting what we voted for.
B) The Undersiders probably left during the 8 hours were were asleep, or even before that, so it doesn't matter what our rolls were.
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A) Irrelevant - the complaint is not about the results but the method (railroading).
B) Even if this were true - which we know it's not thanks to Aisha's comments - Taylor can fly at 80mph, is quite good at tracking, and on top of that skill can just buy successes via bullshit magic. 8 hours lead time is nothing if she wanted to pursue.
 
Jinnt said:
I'm not whining I was half responding to Funky about the railroading and half offering legitimate criticism on how things have gone down. If it had just been a matter of failing rolls or bad choices that would be one thing but there are actions going on that are OOC for multiple parties and it is a legitimate ground for criticism.



We spent something like 20 pages writing arguments taking into account our Clarity what was the point of any of that if we were never going to talk to them.
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Given that they'll be in Philly, we'll likely talk to them and try to convert them to joining us there. We must adjust to changing circumstances.
 
Jinnt said:
You are skipping something what possible reason besides our stunt could the undersiders have for coming to Philly. Can you think of even one IC reason? Cause I can't.

Yes Grue would come for Imp but he can't remember she exists and won't know where she's gone when he does.
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LET IT GO, Jinnt.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
On the other hand, Taylor could always just, y'know...buy successes thanks to her 2nd Perception Augmentation. The fact that Taylor has incredible field awareness thanks to her swarm sense ought to provide a rather hefty bonus as well. And lets not forget Taylor's other significant advantages - she can fly, can see with perfect clarity up to a mile away, can see through walls, and can tell if a person is a parahuman.
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The funny thing about Excellencies is they don't do anything if you didn't think to activate them though. Combined with her range limits(known since the fight with Behemoth), it's quite possible to escape her entire sensory range, with a slight complication taking Dragon into account, while she spends eight hours in the same position. By the time Taylor woke up they've probably been gone for hours, nevermind that Amy has open access to pretty much anything in the camp if subterfuge is called for.

As Taylor herself put it, it'd be trivial to hunt them down given a week or two of time(meaning she could beat their Wits + Survival to hide tracks, but couldn't find something that's not there to be found), given how much she knows about them. It's just not the time and place. Clarity has no room for impatience.
 
Many of Amy's problems with her family were in her own head, yes. Since ICly no one can see inside Amy's head to realize all of her insecurities and anxieties, most people will think that the Dallons are the cause of all of the problems. Her psychological hang-ups aren't less real because of this, sadly, and thus various parties feel it'd be better to give her a clean break to get some time to center herself... before she loses her marbles.

There are several factors that caused things to play out the way they did for Amy, Parian, and the Undersiders - we haven't seen anywhere near the bigger picture yet, so getting angry is futile and deleterious to the thread; it'd be better to start theorizing why they behaved the way they did.

Again, I'm still confused as to what "two votes" I "ignored" when it comes to the Undersiders. As far as I can see:
- Philly Vote: This is still happening, as I have said many times, and the language used in that Stunt will still come into play.
- 5.2 Vote: I specifically said "Track down" the Undersiders, not "Talk to" them, and the fact that we spent time looking for them will come into play later. It was not a wasted stunt, just slightly different.
 
veekie said:
The funny thing about Excellencies is they don't do anything if you didn't think to activate them though.
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So what you're saying is that Taylor got handed the idiot ball? That's not exactly the kind of thing you'd want to say if you were trying to argue that we weren't being railroaded.
Combined with her range limits(known since the fight with Behemoth), it's quite possible to escape her entire sensory range, with a slight complication taking Dragon into account, while she spends eight hours in the same position.
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No, if you'd actually bothered to read what I'd written, you'd know that Perception + Awareness is the wrong roll for this. This is not a spot check, this is a tracking check.
By the time Taylor woke up they've probably been gone for hours, nevermind that Amy has open access to pretty much anything in the camp if subterfuge is called for.
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Sorry if this sounds a bit snippy, but I tend to get irritated when people bring up bullshit that I actually took the time to debunk because it means that people aren't actually arguing in good faith.

The Undersiders are still in the camp. Aisha all but says so in the update. Fucking pay attention.
Update 5.2 said:
"I think Panacea and Parian are going with 'em when they leave. Undersiders, that is. I heard TT talking last night 'bout how Panacea can't deal with her family's shit anymore and so she wants to bail for a while. Pretty sure Parian's only in it for the nookie."
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Note the tenses. Not, "were with 'em when they left," which is what someone would say if the Undersiders had already left.
As Taylor herself put it, it'd be trivial to hunt them down given a week or two of time(meaning she could beat their Wits + Survival to hide tracks, but couldn't find something that's not there to be found), given how much she knows about them. It's just not the time and place. Clarity has no room for impatience.
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TT has super-intuition, not Path to Victory. Stop assuming that just because she might for some reason know how to do something it means that she'll know how to properly execute it.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
So what you're saying is that Taylor got handed the idiot ball? That's not exactly the kind of thing you'd want to say if you were trying to argue that we weren't being railroaded.



No, if you'd actually bothered to read what I'd written, you'd know that Perception + Awareness is the wrong roll for this. This is not a spot check, this is a tracking check.



Sorry if this sounds a bit snippy, but I tend to get irritated when people bring up bullshit that I actually took the time to debunk because it means that people aren't actually arguing in good faith.

The Undersiders are still in the camp. Aisha all but says so in the update. Fucking pay attention.



Note the tenses. Not, "were with 'em when they left," which would be past tense which would suggest that the Undersiders had already left.



TT has super-intuition, not Path to Victory. Stop assuming that just because she might for some reason know how to do something it means that she'll know how to properly execute it.
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Please, Funky, just let it go.
 
I say we wait too see what From has planned. If it pans out, then all the worrying was for nothing. If not, well, now all the bitching was justified. We won't know until the update(s).
 
It's kind of like when you're watching Frozen for the first time and you get to the 'If only someone loved you' bit.

Part of you is screaming GODDAMMIT YOU SOULESS F*CKMOTHERING GINGER BASTARD loud enough to wake up everybody else in the house, but the rest of you is thinking 'damn this movie is good'.

I'll admit I got seriously butthurt when the Undersiders pulled a runner, but I'm more or less over it now. IC it makes since for them to bug out from their point of view, a story is no fun if everything works out the way you expect, and Grom has promised our votes will have weight, even if it's not the way we expected.

Grom isn't in the habit of screwing us over, he takes the intention behind a vote as seriously as the vote itself, and he's already said that we'll be running into them again.
 
mastigos2 said:
Another part of the frustration is that it's really hard to figure out any doylist reason why Taylor has to talk with them in Philidelphia instead of the camp. There may be one, but if so its extremely opaque
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By 'doylist reason' do you mean 'authorial reason' (referencing the Watsonian vs Doylist trope)? Meaning that you're confused as to why I would set things in motion this way? If so, I'll talk on it more after we see things play out this arc.
 
DragonBard said:
I just thought of something.

Have any of us realized Taylor is a Trump?
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She isn't one yet since we can't change power sets without a vat, and have no powers which affect powers. The closest thing is ISF, but that's really more a very thorough Breaker option.

At present she mostly registers as a low brute(Exalted durability), high breaker(ISF, TIE), high stranger(optic shroud), mid thinker(all the optical enhancements, IEU and perception augmentation) and mid tinker(would be higher, except so far she's only been seen copying work).

The numbers actually are useless for power level issues, they don't describe the power level so much as the appropriate level of force to use to counter and form of tactics to employ.
 
DragonBard said:
I just thought of something.

Have any of us realized Taylor is a Trump?
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Taylor is theoretically capable of swapping out her powers, as an Alchemical. I'm fairly sure everyone who's been talking about vats and Charms and the like is fully aware of this fact.

This is in no way new, and will not be interesting until the BB Volcano area is thoroughly Essence-saturated.
 
DragonBard said:
No, Trump means manipulate powers.

Granting, changing, negating, all count as Trump.
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Okay, so, how is Taylor having or not having the word 'Trump' attached to her dossier in any way relevant to anything, absent her going fucknuts or on the lam and given that we know specifically how each and every one of her currently-available powers work OOC (and soon enough IC)?
 
Peanuckle said:
A thought: Since the pinhole leads directly to Autocthon, who's been without humans and people to serve his world-body, does that mean he's infested with gremlins? Is Earth-Bet going to be receiving a dose of super-cancer?
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I'm pretty sure there are still humans and other Alchemicals inside Autochthon in this setting.
 
Peanuckle said:
A thought: Since the pinhole leads directly to Autocthon, who's been without humans and people to serve his world-body, does that mean he's infested with gremlins? Is Earth-Bet going to be receiving a dose of super-cancer?
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Why should he have been without humans to serve his world-body? The seal protected him and all the people in him from oblivion.
 
Peanuckle said:
Autobot eats Po souls since he's cut off from the Wyld's resources. He's slowly running out of humans to keep him in working order. Eventually there'll be a critical point where they can't lock down the gremlin population and then his condition swiftly degrades.

We are his last hope. If we fail, he dies and becomes the Engine of Extinction. But he'll probably sink right into Oblivion since there's no Creation anymore. This would possibly extend Oblivion to Nowhere-verse.

This is exceptionally bad.
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On the other hand, it'd make it pretty easy to make an analogy if we decide to come clean about our powers, Iris, and Autochthon.

"So this guy who made your new body...Autochthulu or whatever."

"Autochthon."

"Right, Autochton. He needs to come into our reality or else he'll die? Why should we care?"

"Bad things happen. Very, very bad things."

"I'm sorry, Weaver, but that's not very helpful."

"OK, well...think of it this way. What would happen if Scion suddenly went nuts and decided to exterminate the human race?"

"Oh."

"Yeah."

"That bad, huh?"

"Yep."

"..."

"..."

"...fuck."
 
I'm a bit confused now: What does happen if Autochthon dies? I mean, since he's still in a whole other reality, would it even affect Earth Bet? Or would Taylor or the Cradle explode as a result?
 
BobTheNinja said:
I'm a bit confused now: What does happen if Autochthon dies? I mean, since he's still in a whole other reality, would it even affect Earth Bet? Or would Taylor or the Cradle explode as a result?
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Maybe nothing would happen to Taylor, as she self-generates the essence needed to power her Alchemical body. I honestly don't know.
 
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