Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

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Well, not just Solars. Ketchup Carjack (oh I so love that fan name) had one commissioned for the Scarlet Empress roughly 4 centuries before her abduction by TED. And during the High First Age, they were also used by a number of Lunars and particular favored and/or Legendary Dragon Blooded and their families.
Also note that Royals were the only warstriders that could by RAW awaken an AI with it's own charms and Essence pool.
So there are actual, economically defensible reasons for Autochtonian nations to build Royal warstriders in preference to other types if they can afford it.
Especially if you want to operate them with mortals who will commit most of their Essence pool to attunement.
 
Now this is the controversial part:

That is a feat of her invulnerability, in that she can only be harmed by very specific forces.
So you can wedge her into place where a building is collapsing, and she won't break or be dislodged, like a normal support member would.
Not a feat of strength.

And even at that, she was only under the pressure of a fraction of that entire mass because location; said million plus tons applied to the entire base, not just the metre squared or so of surface area that Alexandria was standing underneath.
The way I'm interpreting Alexandria's power is that her flight power and her lifting power are the same, because her shard is simply moving her body through space with some (absurd) upper limit of force able to be applied to the motion. In this section, it's pretty clear to me that Wildbow was trying to showcase the grand power of Alexandria (given the emphasis placed through the spacing) by having her lift/support the structure; ramming herself in like some kind of shim/wedge doesn't tonally fit, where the awesome display of strength required to lift/support a whole structure does. Besides, it says she "caught the shelf of steel, concrete and granite," meaning she used her hands/arms to carry it, not that she "blocked" it or "slammed against" it.

I will give you that the entire 1.75 million tons weren't focused entirely upon her, but even one third of that (what is implied by Taylor's narrative) is still around 105 Strength (583k tons). That amount of power is also needed for her to reach the flight speeds she's seen showing near the end of canon, for what it's worth, so it fits there too.
Compare this with the feat of strength when she was failing an opposed roll vs Echidna's vomit hose

Note that's supersonic Alexandria, so it's not like they were moving said vomit faster than her.
... have you ever tried to block a fire hose? Or even just a large stream of water? Because your strength only matters for the amount of space you fill in its path, and it's still going to spray all over the place regardless. This quote has nothing to do with her strength, and more that the volume of spray was so large and erratic that she couldn't block all the streams (which seems more like a problem of reflexes).
An Alexandria with an effective Strength + Athletics of 100 would be on a whole different scale of threat from her already scary levels.
And it would have shortcircuited several canon plot threads, notably Echidna.
Her fight in Brockton Bay had her using a building I-beam to smack Echidna around, instead of flying out to the bay and coming back with a significant chunk of ship and simply impaling her with that once the threat became clear.
Because they already buried her under a building and it didn't matter? And that anything sufficiently large she'd try to grab would - just as you've been pointing out before - simply fall apart due to stress?

While Superman may have been Wildbow's original inspiration for Scion, Alexandria is very clearly the 'flying brick' stereotype that he exemplifies; at no point in the story is it ever clear that she lacks in strength for a task, it is more the world is not strong enough to resist her (thus, Superman's "world of cardboard"). She could have effective 100 Strength or 1000 Strength, and it wouldn't have changed canon because, narratively, her strength is arbitrarily large; it is only everything else breaking (Endbringers excluded, but they break physics) that holds her back.
 
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If the vomit had power-nullifiers, Lexie wouldn't be standing in it's path, would she?
It wasn't full 'no powers', but I do believe that it reduced effectiveness.
Pseudo-edit: Was partially mixing up her power-nullifying on contact/when absorbed, and this:
It wasn't an entirely unfamiliar feeling. I felt sick.

With that thought, it dawned on me. Noelle absorbed living things, and that apparently extended to bacteria. Where others had bacteria in their digestive systems to help them digest food, Noelle, Echidna, had no need for such. When she absorbed the ambient bacteria and molds from her surroundings, she was storing them, weaponizing them like she did with rats and insects. They were used to debilitate her victims, render them unable to fight back while her clones got the upper hand.

It meant I was sick, and I'd have to hope that whatever the illness was, it would be short-lived.
I'm no engineer, but I imagine that without Siberian physics-fuckery basically giving the finger to Newton's laws of physics and making the car an inviolable bubble of timespace unaffected by external forces, Manton would have broken his neck the first time Siberian went from 60km/hr to stopping on a dime.
Or put his head through the dash.
See, she doesn't do this - she only does that to the car, she can't affect Manton. Since she can't affect Manton, he'd be just as stuffed over by physics (and inertia) as normal. If he was unaffected by external forces as well, he'd have been 'left behind' (i.e. shredded) by the inviolable car. Thus he must be able to be affected by the Siberian's forces as movement, and thus will be subjected to the normal means of stopping (i.e. a force applied by the surroundings - in this case, the car/seatbelt etc is applying the force).
Behemoth had to reserve a power use to counter her blows even.
Eh, that's not because she would've actually done damage per se. (See her fight with Leviathan - she knocked him around, not did damage).
 
That amount of power is also needed for her to reach the flight speeds she's seen showing near the end of canon, for what it's worth, so it fits there too.
I think you are making an error in assuming that say, the power she could devote to flight would transfer to strength.
And I think canon agrees with me.
But I will admit it's arguable.

have you ever tried to block a fire hose? Or even just a large stream of water? Because your strength only matters for the amount of space you fill in its path, and it's still going to spray all over the place regardless. This quote has nothing to do with her strength, and more that the volume of spray was so large and erratic that she couldn't block all the streams (which seems more like a problem of reflexes).
I don't agree.
Eidolon put up a slowing field to help her cope, not a barrier.

Because they already buried her under a building and it didn't matter? And that anything sufficiently large she'd try to grab would - just as you've been pointing out before - simply fall apart due to stress?
Means that they could have bisected her several times until she stopped moving.
Or used said metal to move her out of the city since she couldn't be touched safely..

I mean, do remember that Superman's favored strategy for major fights is to remove it from civilian locations to out of town.
Hell, there was actually no evidence that Noelle could breathe water, was there?
And BB was a coastal city.

My point being that superstrength on that scale changes the game dramatically.
Opening move with EBs would be to punch them out of the city.
Behemoth can mitigate the amount of energy that hits him, for example; Leviathan can't, and dude weighs maybe ten tons.

The fact that we don't see this in canon suggests that it doesn't work that way for her.
If you choose to interpret it differently, sure; just remember to see the implications through.
It wasn't full 'no powers', but I do believe that it reduced effectiveness.
Pseudo-edit: Was partially mixing up her power-nullifying on contact/when absorbed, and this:
Poison, basically.
As Alex is not affected by poison(to the best of my knowledge)....
Hell, it probably won't affect anyone in a full body suit.

See, she doesn't do this - she only does that to the car, she can't affect Manton.
She can't affect Manton directly.

As I understand it?
When Siberian had the car, she was doing the equivalent of projecting an Alcubierre bubble for Manton, with the car being the framework for the effect.

Basically, the Siberian is a terrestrial application of Star Trek warp drive theory.

The inside of the the bubble is insulated from external forces, with only those forces she chooses to permit(visual light, maybe some sound) getting through. None of those forces(acceleration/deceleration, even gravity if she so chooses) touch Manton because they can't get past the barrier of the Siberian effect.

So crash into a building? Manton's fine? Accelerate at 30gs? Manton's fine.
Until he runs short of air.
 
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Fast enough to dash right back in.
I just bought enough time for teleporters to bring in defenders and civilians to batten down properly.
Or for Scion to hopefully respond.

Do remember that allegedly, before Armsy and Dragon's prediction program, most heroes got no warning of EB attack, and only showed up midway into the whole thing.Wouldn't be as much of a problem if Alexandria could literally relocate the incoming hostile while a defense was organized.
 
From the SB WoG thread courtesy of @Disconnect
Some other dude running a Worm Quest asked the question:
How Do Protectorate Heroes Spend Their Day
Wildbow answered





Might inform our choices down the road.

EDIT
Patrol for 2-3 hours a day. Some of that may be time with local police. Ride-alongs, providing help. Sometimes that help is just being a face among the police when handling anything from domestics to tweakers on a bad trip. Some of it may overlap with...

Ward mentoring. Stick one or two Wards with the cape or one or two capes with the Ward. Can range from time spent helping them with homework to easy-mode patrols or making sure they don't do something like announce a dumb & vaguely rude hero name in front of a crowd. Some love this duty, some actively avoid it, and some don't qualify for it because they aren't good role models. The latter two groups and anyone who is actively being kept out of the public eye/being trialed tend to get more...

Class time. Paid time to attend classes. Expand knowledge, round them out as people. Can be practical skills (vocation/training), parahuman science, and university classes.

Events. Not daily, but every two weeks or so there'll be something. The goal is to keep capes in the public eye. So it could be anything from cape magazine articles featuring a cape or group of capes to visiting a school, updating a video feed or having a very branding-focused spotlight for a video clip online, etc. The cape doesn't handle all of the prelude, but there may be some rehearsals, time spent in meetings discussing this, and they'll be kept in the loop during the back and forth, so they know what's going on. Not the most time consuming thing, but it's enough of a change of pace and low-level headache for ~many~ capes that they'll be left feeling like they're preparing for, handling, or recuperating from an event at all times.

Actual missions - like 'get the team together, we're tackling this' end up being much like events, but with less preamble and more follow-up.

Crisis points. Generally attached to the beginning or ending of a patrol. Extends patrols by another hour, hour and a half a day. Schools, hospitals, police, social services and the like all send information to the PRT regarding incidents and people of interest on a regular basis. Workplace accidents, recent firings, child abuse, and so on. The idea is to touch base, investigate for any unusual goings-on in the wake of the incidents in question, and ensure that the road to the Protectorate/Wards is a clear and easy one to take, should anyone in the wake of these incidents have triggered. A lot of the time it's being a sympathetic and friendly face to bystanders and victims, so the PRT comes across as approachable.

Paperwork. The bane of institutions everywhere.

Oftentimes it's (after accounting for travel time) ~4 hours a day of patrol and crisis point. Then 4 hours a day of being in the base and immediately available. While in the base a cape might have an online course playing on a monitor while they do paperwork. Then about half an hour to an hour a day of event coordination and half an hour to an hour a day of time with the Wards (or other Protectorate members, but this is informal). ~8 hour days broken into time out & about and desk time.

In the playable aspects, I would play up the crisis point stuff - drop the questers in a few scenarios, let them look out for trouble. Maybe it's obvious and it becomes something where they need to hold down the fort while help arrives, and maybe the clues of one event pave the way when an incident happens later, and the questers can say "Oh hey, we might have an idea who that is." Let them flag incidents or leave them be.

Let them pick who they mentor out of a cast of Wards, shape the Ward, chime in on stuff, provide counsel, see if they can't steer the Ward into a good place. Insert drama, problem solving, etc.

And patrols. Interesting stuff happens on patrols. Especially as stuff happens in the greater picture.
Keep in mind that some capes do some stuff better than others. For some the events are second nature. Others blaze through the paperwork. Others still just put in the effort and tackle both reliably. The top brass tends to notice this & promotes these capes to a higher point, so they might end up with leadership classes or other responsibilities.

Capes who are holding their own or who are very on top of their game might start getting pulled away for trips to nearby cities and locations, to bolster numbers or provide backup (or be the tool that another department doesn't have in its toolbox). Or they're left in charge of the team while the team leader is away/off duty. Once this starts becoming regular and they're still proving their mettle, it becomes a sort of informal thing where they end up on a team with Legend or Alexandria or Eidolon, and tackling some real nail-biters. And if they handle their shit then (excuse my French), then their Director calls them into the office and says "The Triumvirate wants to borrow you for a while."

And then they're working as a direct subordinate to other members of the Triumvirate for a short stint each time, which is a final series of checks and balances before they run their own Protectorate team.
It's not a hard and fast rule. Some teams find leadership in other ways. But before a cape really gets branded and presented to the nation at large as 'leader of [city]'s Protectorate', they'll be vetted and tested and given time with the Triumvirate. Until then, it'll often be something along the lines of... sure, you're in charge of the team until someone says different, but don't go saying you're in charge and if someone asks you if you're leading the team, deflect or be sure to say it's temporary.

Because they really want to vet people and make sure things are a good fit.

The 66 or so largest cities in the US & the various special case scenarios (Brockton Bay being one) have a much more regimented approach. Offices (PRT establishments in smaller cities, small towns) are far looser, but don't have, say, informations departments or branding departments, or whatever else. So the cape is sorta asked to pick up the slack or handle some of that themselves. Being proactive about being liasons, keeping tabs on police scanners and incidents at schools. Time traveling outside of their city to the nearest PRT department to get stuff like costumes done or so on.

There's a lot more leeway in how much they patrol or don't patrol, how many events they do, etc. Though they'll get pushed to do something in various departments, even if it's sort of a 'You haven't done an event in the last two months, the guys at [nearby department] are very strongly suggesting that you go and do a school assembly or something in the next few weeks' thing.

Many of the major cities have something going on that adds on other duties or focuses. Some push harder patrols because of ongoing issues with crime, others are more investigative, or host facilities where Watchdog does simulations and tracks goings-on. Some have non-Birdcage prisons or asylums. Others are branding-focused and handle media and costuming and the like for a much wider area than is usual. It's often but not always tied into the city's identity, often tied to geography and the needs of the area, and so on.

This & the nature of the director and leadership styles and current events in the city all add different pressures and focuses, and skew the numbers. There are crime-ridden areas where the emphasis on patrolling might be much higher.
 
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More a problem of leverage than lack of strength. Blunt impact limitations when the target has no organs..
Was responding to your comment about Behemoth - would've used his power to stop being knocked down, not because it would've actually broken anything. (And I don't think leverage would've made any difference).
As I understand it?
When Siberian had the car, she was doing the equivalent of projecting an Alcubierre bubble for Manton, with the car being the framework for the effect.
Well, that was interesting, but I've got no idea how you went there with what Siberian was doing.
The inside of the the bubble is insulated from external forces, with only those forces she chooses to permit(visual light, maybe some sound) getting through. None of those forces(acceleration/deceleration, even gravity if she so chooses) touch Manton because they can't get past the barrier of the Siberian effect.
Umm...cite? Because while she can ignore any forces on someone/something directly affected by her power, there is no evidence (to the best of my recollection) that even vaguely supports that interpretation. And it seems to be a very convoluted interpretation to jump to.

In addition, I will point out that she did not immediately pick up the car and run with it (Manton just kept driving with her protecting the car, even when blind), and only picked it up and ran in a straight line after Sundancer destroyed the road. So not jumping around and stopping on a dime, which suggests that acceleration affects Manton.
Opening move with EBs would be to punch them out of the city.
Behemoth can mitigate the amount of energy that hits him, for example; Leviathan can't, and dude weighs maybe ten tons.

Fast enough to dash right back in.
Or just pick them up and hold them there till everyone else arrives - Leviathan would be able to break free eventually (with water echo if nothing else), but Behemoth? From memory of canon, any force redirection was much more active and instant than passive. They might be stronger than Alexandria (I know Behemoth is rated as a higher Brute), but since they can't fly, there'd likely be issues with leverage.
 
Still had to copy/paste some paragraphs to cope with the quoting system, but yes. Much better.

I wonder how often the PRT asks Weaver to do PR stuff. I mean, on the one hand she's a world-class Tinker doing important anti-Endbringer stuff, but on the other hand she's also a surprisingly approachable face that has 5 dots as the ideal Ward and a explicit need for mortal human interaction. While she can get that interaction just from her peers, it seems like a bit of a waist waste to let her stay cooped up in a workshop all day, every day however much she may prefer to.

...you know how some people are explicitly expected to keep a twitter account and put out tweets every so often?
 
Submitted the next Part to the mods for vetting, but haven't heard anything yet and I'm fading fast.

Part 4 tomorrow, along with Part 5 later in the eve.
 
I wonder how often the PRT asks Weaver to do PR stuff. I mean, on the one hand she's a world-class Tinker doing important anti-Endbringer stuff, but on the other hand she's also a surprisingly approachable face that has 5 dots as the ideal Ward and a explicit need for mortal human interaction. While she can get that interaction just from her peers, it seems like a bit of a waist waste to let her stay cooped up in a workshop all day, every day however much she may prefer to.
On the other hand, they're still somewhat concerned about her motives (probably increasingly so). So we know there have been some things (the fashion shoot and the anti-bullying campaign come to mind), but I don't think they're pushing it hard.
 
Umm...cite? Because while she can ignore any forces on someone/something directly affected by her power, there is no evidence (to the best of my recollection) that even vaguely supports that interpretation. And it seems to be a very convoluted interpretation to jump to.
In addition, I will point out that she did not immediately pick up the car and run with it (Manton just kept driving with her protecting the car, even when blind), and only picked it up and ran in a straight line after Sundancer destroyed the road. So not jumping around and stopping on a dime, which suggests that acceleration affects Manton.
I'll look for cites when I get home.

I wonder how often the PRT asks Weaver to do PR stuff.
...you know how some people are explicitly expected to keep a twitter account and put out tweets every so often?
Given that Taylor was assigned a full-time assistant from New York-Kaylee Chambers, Glenn's illegitimate daughter-just as the Nine hit town?
I assume pretty often.

She'll probably have the full spectrum of social media accounts, managed with help from staff; given her ability to multitask, they'll have less to do than the average politician with a Twitter account. And the fact that she's currently stuck in base form isn't going to change that; she's still Appearance 5, her Charisma and Presence have actually gone up, and the PRT were having a push to appear inclusive of Case 53s, using attractive people like Weld.

Suddenly attempting to push her under covers because she now looks like a glowing death metal robot would look...bad, and confirm suspicions in the C53 community as well as the general public.
Future issues they don't need.

Assume that PR and Image will make lemonade out of those lemons right quick.
 
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Assume that PR and Image will make lemonade out of those lemons right quick.

Well yes, but I'm imagining Weaver visiting schools looking like a 'death metal robot' and telling the kids to be good citizens while swarming the place with butterflies and drugs-seeking hornets. Performance training interval perhaps?
 
Well yes, but I'm imagining Weaver visiting schools looking like a 'death metal robot' and telling the kids to be good citizens while swarming the place with butterflies and drugs-seeking hornets. Performance training interval perhaps?

It would probably be a lot harder to scare teenagers when they think you are really hot.
 
Well yes, but I'm imagining Weaver visiting schools prisons looking like a 'death metal robot' and telling the kids to be good citizens offering career counselling while swarming the place with butterflies performance art and drugs-seeking hornets drug-sniffing dogs therapy animals. Performance training interval perhaps?
FTFY.
The fact that she's terrifyingly good looking won't prevent prisoners from paying attention.
Quite the opposite.
Prisoner recidivism rates will hit all-time lows.
 
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Well yes, but I'm imagining Weaver visiting schools looking like a 'death metal robot' and telling the kids to be good citizens while swarming the place with butterflies and drugs-seeking hornets. Performance training interval perhaps?
By "drug-seeking" do you mean "drug-delivering"? Because Good Citizens take their Happy Juice at their designated, mandatory intervals.

Also, Part 4 is still being checked by the mods - hopefully it'll be cleared soon so I can post it and Part 5 tonight.
 
Wait, so do you actually mean mods are checking it to make sure it is appropriate? Or that its being beta'd?

Didn't know having a mod read something in advanced to determine its posting was a thing...
 
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